Re: [Fedora Update] [old_testing] rakarrack-0.2.0-5.fc8 / fc9

[Development discussions related to Fedora]

updates(a)fedoraproject.org wrote:
>  The update for rakarrack-0.2.0-5.fc8 has been in 'testing'
> status for over 2 weeks. 
..
> ================================================================================
>       rakarrack-0.2.0-5.fc8
>  ================================================================================
>    Update ID: FEDORA-2008-9033
>      Release: Fedora 8
>       Status: testing
>         Type: newpackage
>        Karma: 0
>         Bugs: 455953 - Review Request: rakarrack - Audio effects processing rack
>             : for guitar
>        Notes: Initial build of rakarrack for fedora
>    Submitter: dtimms
>    Submitted: 2008-10-20 21:46:29
>     Comments: dtimms - 2008-10-20 21:46:32 (karma 0)
>               This update has been submitted for testing
>               bodhi - 2008-10-23 16:35:19 (karma 0)
>               This update has been pushed to testing
>  
>    http://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/F8/FEDORA-2008-9033 
Hi fedora-music lovers,

I would be keen for some feedback on whether rakarrack that is now in 
fedora testing works for you ?

To fully test you'll need a guitar and pickup plugged into your 
soundcard, but even a go/nogo on whether it starts would be helpful.

Where I developed the package, it works OK, but another older AMD 
machine, it fails during startup. This will help me to decide whether to 
push it to the F8,F9 updates repos.

DaveT.

[Fedora Update] [old_testing] rakarrack-0.2.0-5.fc8 / fc9

[Leszek Matok]

Dnia 2008-11-08, o godz. 11:44:33 David Timms <dtimms(a)iinet.net.au&gt; napisał(a):

>  I would be keen for some feedback on whether rakarrack that is now in
>
>  fedora testing works for you ? 
As for me, I can't hear anything. There's no
evidence (audio or visual) that
the program captures any sound from the guitar (and no, it's not a problem with
my mixer settings).

Also, the first time I ran it, after clicking through many dialogs and
fiddling with some setting, it spit:
cannot complete execution of the processing graph (Resource temporarily unavailable)
zombified - calling shutdown handler
X_LookupColor: BadName (named color or font does not exist) 0x20
X I/O error


Less critical things: the help file is missing and the GUI is horrible (my
eyes!) Of course there's this neat -n option, but creating banks will still
be very painful.

I'll stick to gnuitar for yet another while :)

Lam
PS. This is on Rawhide.

[Fedora Update] [old_testing] rakarrack-0.2.0-5.fc8 / fc9

[Leszek Matok]

Dnia 2008-11-09, o godz. 11:02:10 Leszek Matok <Lam(a)Lam.pl&gt; napisał(a):

>  I can't hear anything. 
OK, I take that back. After
investigation with jackd -v, it turned out
rakarrack.in_1 doesn't automatically connect to system.capture_1. Fixing that
with qjackctl makes everything work. (And disconnecting it again makes
Rakarrack die in pain).

After spending another minute on brute-forcing sane colour scheme, I can now
say Rakarrack is really neat and works great after you tame it :) You really
need to make it behave well by default, though. Without it, I see no point in
introducing this to "normal" users.

Lam

[Fedora Update] [old_testing] rakarrack-0.2.0-5.fc8 / fc9

[Development discussions related to Fedora]

Leszek Matok wrote:
>  Dnia 2008-11-09, o godz. 11:02:10 Leszek Matok <Lam(a)Lam.pl&gt;
> napisa³(a):
>   
... help doesn't work...
On the help file, I want to lengths to get the app internal paths 
patched to use fedora standard locations for the help files. This seems 
to work on F9, both help and license are correctly shown. Is that the 
ones you are having trouble with on your rawhide machine ?

> > I can't hear anything.
>  OK, I take that back. After investigation with jackd -v, it turned out
>  rakarrack.in_1 doesn't automatically connect to system.capture_1. Fixing that
>  with qjackctl makes everything work. (And disconnecting it again makes
>  Rakarrack die in pain). 
Can you normally disconnect a jack stream from a live
application and 
not cause trouble ?

>  After spending another minute on brute-forcing sane colour scheme,
What you mention about adjusting the default colour scheme seems 
reasonable. I did wonder whether rakarrack authors did this for a reason 
- like the contrasting colours being easy to see when not really seated 
at the computer, but in guitar playing position...
A reason to change might be that the colours are no good for the colour 
blind ?

>  I can now
>  say Rakarrack is really neat and works great after you tame it :) You really
>  need to make it behave well by default, though. Without it, I see no point in
>  introducing this to "normal" users. 
Do you have much experience with jack and/or apps using jack ?
The reason I ask, is a setting up jack document suggested the use of say 
qjackctl to start and connect the jack streams is generally required 
(which does of course make it more difficult for beginners to get 
going). If there is easy ways to automate a basic
in -> rakarrack ip
rakarrack op -> amp
connection, that would really simplify basic use. I'm not sure it would 
be compatible with other jack configs/usage ?

And cool, thank for trying it out Lam.

DaveT.

[Fedora Update] [old_testing] rakarrack-0.2.0-5.fc8 / fc9

[Leszek Matok]

Dnia 2008-11-09, o godz. 23:32:06 David Timms <dtimms(a)iinet.net.au&gt; napisał(a):

>  On the help file, I want to lengths to get the app internal paths 
>  patched to use fedora standard locations for the help files. This seems 
>  to work on F9, both help and license are correctly shown. Is that the 
>  ones you are having trouble with on your rawhide machine ? 
Yes, and the help
browser says:
Unable to follow the link "/usr/share/doc/rakarrack/html/help.html" - No such
file or directory.
The content is in /usr/share/doc/rakarrack-0.2.0/html/, so your patch isn't
in effect on rawhide.

>  Can you normally disconnect a jack stream from a live application and
>
>  not cause trouble ? 
It depends on what you call "trouble". I expect an
error dialog, but not
hanging/crash of an application. I remember routing sound via gnuitar to
audacity and error dialogs were all I've got.

>  I did wonder whether rakarrack authors did this for a reason 
>  - like the contrasting colours being easy to see when not really seated 
>  at the computer, but in guitar playing position... 
It simply looks better on their
screens :) I'm on a GNOME desktop using
Darklooks GTK+ theme, which FLTK tries to use to some extent (and fails). I've
tried providing it with a default rakarrack.prefs.db, but it won't fix my
problem completely, as they apparently use some background colour from theme
for foreground text. They are apparently developing this app on a
black-on-white desktop and want it to be in reverse. Not a greatest desktop
integration I say :)

>  Do you have much experience with jack and/or apps using jack ?
>  The reason I ask, is a setting up jack document suggested the use of say 
>  qjackctl to start and connect the jack streams is generally required  
Other
JACK-aware apps try to implement their own GUIs which are more
user-friendly and make qjackctl redundant in simple two-app setups. rakarrack
is no different, only it implements the GUI only for sinks for its output :)

So rakarrack connects to system output by default. I'd rather expect it to
connect to input and wait for me to tell it where to output, but maybe it's
just me :)

>  And cool, thank for trying it out Lam. 
My pleasure and a realy
fine app :)

Lam

[Fedora Update] [old_testing] rakarrack-0.2.0-5.fc8 / fc9

[Fernando Lopez-Lezcano]

On Sun, 2008-11-09 at 14:40 +0100, Leszek Matok wrote:
>  Dnia 2008-11-09, o godz. 23:32:06 David Timms
> <dtimms(a)iinet.net.au&gt; napisał(a):
>  
>  > On the help file, I want to lengths to get the app internal paths 
>  > patched to use fedora standard locations for the help files. This seems 
>  > to work on F9, both help and license are correctly shown. Is that the 
>  > ones you are having trouble with on your rawhide machine ?
>  Yes, and the help browser says:
>  Unable to follow the link "/usr/share/doc/rakarrack/html/help.html" - No such
> file or directory.
>  The content is in /usr/share/doc/rakarrack-0.2.0/html/, so your patch isn't
>  in effect on rawhide.
>  
>  > Can you normally disconnect a jack stream from a live application and 
>  > not cause trouble ?
>  It depends on what you call "trouble". I expect an error dialog, but not
>  hanging/crash of an application.  
If disconnecting means "unplugging" it from sources/sinks in qjackctl
then no jack application should notice (not even as an error or warning
- it is _not_ an error). In my Planet CCRMA packaged version nothing
happens if I connect or disconnect ports from rakarrack. 

If disconnecting means turning off jack then most applications pop up a
dialog saying that jack is gone. Some are smarter than others and let
you reconnect, on others you have to restart the application. Again, in
the Planet CCRMA version rakarrack pops up a panel saying "try to save
your work" or something to that effect. 

>  I remember routing sound via gnuitar to
>  audacity and error dialogs were all I've got.
>  
>  > I did wonder whether rakarrack authors did this for a reason 
>  > - like the contrasting colours being easy to see when not really seated 
>  > at the computer, but in guitar playing position...
>  It simply looks better on their screens :)  
Or they just like it that way :-)

>  I'm on a GNOME desktop using
>  Darklooks GTK+ theme, which FLTK tries to use to some extent (and fails). I've
>  tried providing it with a default rakarrack.prefs.db, but it won't fix my
>  problem completely, as they apparently use some background colour from theme
>  for foreground text. They are apparently developing this app on a
>  black-on-white desktop and want it to be in reverse. Not a greatest desktop
>  integration I say :) 
I think the color scheme is something to be fixed upstream, right?

>  > Do you have much experience with jack and/or apps using jack ?
>  > The reason I ask, is a setting up jack document suggested the use of say 
>  > qjackctl to start and connect the jack streams is generally required 
>  Other JACK-aware apps try to implement their own GUIs which are more
>  user-friendly and make qjackctl redundant in simple two-app setups. rakarrack
>  is no different, only it implements the GUI only for sinks for its output :)
>  
>  So rakarrack connects to system output by default. I'd rather expect it to
>  connect to input and wait for me to tell it where to output, but maybe it's
>  just me :) 
My personal take on this is that jack applications should not connect by
themselves to anything unless you tell them to do so. It might be
obvious where to connect to/from in a simple stereo in stereo out
situation, but jack is used many times for multichannel applications. In
those cases the first two output channels and first two input channels
might not go anywhere, or may go to places where you don't want apps
sending stuff by default. 

-- Fernando

[Fedora Update] [old_testing] rakarrack-0.2.0-5.fc8 / fc9

[Leszek Matok]

Dnia 2008-11-09, o godz. 11:03:06 Fernando Lopez-Lezcano
<nando(a)ccrma.Stanford.EDU&gt; napisał(a):

>  On Sun, 2008-11-09 at 14:40 +0100, Leszek Matok wrote:
>  If disconnecting means "unplugging" it from sources/sinks in qjackctl
>  then no jack application should notice (not even as an error or warning
>  - it is _not_ an error). In my Planet CCRMA packaged version nothing
>  happens if I connect or disconnect ports from rakarrack.  
I call this "connecting" and "disconnecting" because qjackctl uses
this convention. Connecting/disconnecting when "FX on" can make rakarrack die
yelling:
cannot complete execution of the processing graph (Resource temporarily unavailable)
zombified - calling shutdown handler
rakarrack: xcb_lock.c:77: _XGetXCBBuffer: Assertion `((int) ((xcb_req) -
(dpy->request)) >= 0)' failed.
cannot read event response from client [rakarrack] (Connection reset by peer)
bad status for client event handling (type = 5)
Abort

I've noticed that in such situations, after rakarrack quiets down (which,
depending on an effect, can take few seconds), there are many jackd errors
like:
subgraph starting at qjackctl timed out (subgraph_wait_fd=12, status = 0, state =
Running)
and:
**** alsa_pcm: xrun of at least 1226244972609.536 msecs
(check out the number of msecs, this is BS and there are no xruns when it's
actualy playing sound)
Maybe I'm triggering some jackd bugs somehow and they propagate to rakarrack
which doesn't expect talking to buggy server? :)


>  My personal take on this is that jack applications should not connect
> by
>  themselves to anything unless you tell them to do so. 
Having a default connection
that I myself configure in application's GUI is
different from application doing things by itself.

Cheers,

Lam

[Fedora Update] [old_testing] rakarrack-0.2.0-5.fc8 / fc9

[Fernando Lopez-Lezcano]

On Sun, 2008-11-09 at 20:38 +0100, Leszek Matok wrote:
>  Dnia 2008-11-09, o godz. 11:03:06 Fernando Lopez-Lezcano
>  <nando(a)ccrma.Stanford.EDU&gt; napisał(a):
>  
>  > On Sun, 2008-11-09 at 14:40 +0100, Leszek Matok wrote:
>  > If disconnecting means "unplugging" it from sources/sinks in qjackctl
>  > then no jack application should notice (not even as an error or warning
>  > - it is _not_ an error). In my Planet CCRMA packaged version nothing
>  > happens if I connect or disconnect ports from rakarrack. 
>  
>  I call this "connecting" and "disconnecting" because qjackctl uses
>  this convention. Connecting/disconnecting when "FX on" can make rakarrack die
>  yelling:
>  cannot complete execution of the processing graph (Resource temporarily unavailable)
>  zombified - calling shutdown handler
>  rakarrack: xcb_lock.c:77: _XGetXCBBuffer: Assertion `((int) ((xcb_req) -
> (dpy->request)) >= 0)' failed.
>  cannot read event response from client [rakarrack] (Connection reset by peer)
>  bad status for client event handling (type = 5)
>  Abort 
That is jack kicking out rakarrack from its graph. 

>  I've noticed that in such situations, after rakarrack quiets down
> (which,
>  depending on an effect, can take few seconds), there are many jackd errors
>  like:
>  subgraph starting at qjackctl timed out (subgraph_wait_fd=12, status = 0, state =
> Running)
>  and:
>  **** alsa_pcm: xrun of at least 1226244972609.536 msecs
>  (check out the number of msecs, this is BS and there are no xruns when it's
>  actualy playing sound)
>  Maybe I'm triggering some jackd bugs somehow and they propagate to rakarrack
>  which doesn't expect talking to buggy server? :) 
Which version of jack are you using? If it is the stock 0.109.x then
this is probably a combined problem of rakarack and jack. 0.109.x is
notoriously unstable, something that is just now fixed (I think) in
current jack svn. I'm using jackmp instead which is more stable. 

I can see that rakarrack is using a _LOT_ of cpu horsepower in its
default configuration. How high is the load on your computer when you
turn effects on? It could be that you are running out of cpu also...

-- Fernando


>  > My personal take on this is that jack applications should not
> connect by
>  > themselves to anything unless you tell them to do so.
>  Having a default connection that I myself configure in application's GUI is
>  different from application doing things by itself.
>  
>  Cheers,

How can I fib to yum?

[Bert Haskins]

I am running Fedora 9.93 and so far I'm very happy with it.
The problem is though that I would like to be able to install
some packages and this doesn't happen because yum reports version 9.93
instead of 9.
This has always been a problem for me on pre-release versions and I 
probably should know some way around it but I don't.
So how do I get yum to install version 9 packages?

Conflicts/crashes are not any problem since I keep at least one laptop and desktop just
for testing things and these are completely  backed up to a external hard drive.
Thanks,
  Bert

How can I fib to yum?

[Jarod Wilson]

On Monday 10 November 2008 15:01:52 bhaskins(a)chartermi.net wrote:
>  I am running Fedora 9.93 and so far I'm very happy with it.
>  The problem is though that I would like to be able to install
>  some packages and this doesn't happen because yum reports version 9.93
>  instead of 9.
>  This has always been a problem for me on pre-release versions and I
>  probably should know some way around it but I don't.
>  So how do I get yum to install version 9 packages?
>
>  Conflicts/crashes are not any problem since I keep at least one laptop and
>  desktop just for testing things and these are completely  backed up to a
>  external hard drive. Thanks, 
Replace $releasever with a hard-coded 9 in the yum repos where you want the F9 
packages.

-- 
Jarod Wilson
jarod(a)redhat.com

[Fedora Update] [old_testing] rakarrack-0.2.0-5.fc8 / fc9

[Leszek Matok]

Dnia 2008-11-09, o godz. 14:16:01 Fernando Lopez-Lezcano
<nando(a)ccrma.Stanford.EDU&gt; napisał(a):

>  Which version of jack are you using? If it is the stock 0.109.x then
>  this is probably a combined problem of rakarack and jack. 0.109.x is
>  notoriously unstable, something that is just now fixed (I think) in
>  current jack svn. I'm using jackmp instead which is more stable.  
I'm using
jack-audio-connection-kit-0.109.2-3.fc10.i386 and don't see jackmp
in Fedora without Planet CCRMA.


>  I can see that rakarrack is using a _LOT_ of cpu horsepower in its
>  default configuration. How high is the load on your computer when you
>  turn effects on? It could be that you are running out of cpu also... 
The most
CPU-consuming preset effect that I could find (Clean-A-Duet, which
sounds really bad btw) can eat 17% of one CPU and all of the others can go
from 3% to 8%, which is nothing.

Is there some plan regarding the reportedly unstable jackd in Fedora?

Lam

[Fedora Update] [old_testing] rakarrack-0.2.0-5.fc8 / fc9

[Anthony Green]

Leszek Matok wrote:
>  Is there some plan regarding the reportedly unstable jackd in
> Fedora?
>
>     
I think the only real bug in Fedora's bugzilla for 
jack-audio-connection-kit has to do with the quality of resampling.  If 
there are other problems, please file bug reports.

Thanks,

AG