On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Christopher Antila
Problem 1: with a "Spin," we can't accomplish
everything we wanted (e.g., no
realtime kernel, no MP3 support).
Is the real-time kernel still an issue? Sure, in the days of slow
machines, 32-bit x86 and low-end sound cards it might have been a
problem, but really - with a 2 GHz 64-bit chip and audio cards that do
the heavy lifting, is the real-time kernel still needed?
MP3 - the other distros get around that by paying money to other
businesses. Google and Mozilla are slowly but surely hacking away at
the need for MP3. We'll get there, maybe even in my lifetime. Firefox
OS doesn't support FLAC, for example. ;-)
Problem 2: we didn't get the additional contributors we hoped
Packaging is labor-intensive and capital-intensive. That's why I don't
Problem 3: even the contributors don't use or recommend the Spin.
the F19 spin, but I wouldn't do it again, because it's just not what I want,
in the same way the Desktop Spin and the KDE Spin aren't what I want.
have two hobbies - algorithmic composition / digital sound
synthesis and data / computational journalism. So no single spin
covers both and my machine is basically Fedora Design Suite plus R and
R Studio plus the packages from the Jam spin.
Problem 4: we don't have enough contributors to do what we
want---or we want
to do more than we can.
Nobody has enough 'contributors', where
'contributors' == 'people who
work for love instead of money' ;-)
Problem 5: pulling ourselves into the Fedora community necessarily
restrict what we can do, both technically and legally.
I don't think that's
really a problem - I'd rather have Fedora's
restrictions than Ubuntu's chaos and all the other distros' lack of
already-packaged audio solutions.
I'll propose some solutions too. Because the spin didn't and
our technical goals, because it hasn't accomplished our social goals, because
we don't seem to be using our own work, and because it's causing additional
effort when we can't afford it, let's drop the spin. That's an easy first
I'd still like to see a yum package group/groups salvaged from the
But what comes next? (Or: what comes .next?) We may need to leave
Like Brendan, and probably many of you, I really appreciate the Fedora
community's published values. However, through my time here, I've begun to
realize that Fedora is the upstream for RHEL, the Fedora community is for
innovating in the cloud, and if something isn't going to make money for Red
Hat, there usually isn't enough initiative to make it happen (or: these
initiatives get clobbered by the contributors who have more time because
they're paid by Red Hat).
Let me clarify that I honestly believe everybody is acting in good faith, and
that Red Hat's influence is overall a positive thing for the Fedora community
and Linux in general. This is a "tyranny of the majority" situation:
best for accomplishing our needs and desires is different from what's best for
accomplishing the needs and desires of most of the rest of the Fedora
If we 'leave Fedora' there are essentially two options:
1. We join the throng of 'labor of love / no product-market fit' audio
distros based on Debian or Ubuntu, competing for scarce resources with
2. We migrate to openSUSE, where there's a huge infrastructure in the
OpenSUSE Build Service and SUSE Studio, and try to find a paying
I'm seriously considering moving my CompJournoStick Fedora Remix back
to SUSE Studio where it was 'born'; the appliance creation /
distribution process there is a few years ahead of building ISOs on my
workstation and I don't have the business model to go to Red Hat and
say, "you should invest in computational journalism". I guess they'll
figure that out on their own if I stay on Fedora. ;-)
I hope to encourage a discussion here. We need to consider how to
to get what we need. We have technical goals and community-building goals that
aren't currently being met. Will "Fedora.next" allow us to meet our goals,
should we try to establish ourselves independently?
The good news is that F21 is
going to have a long release cycle - at
this point it looks like August and I'm guessing some big upstream
must-haves will slip it a bit. So if we stay with Fedora, we "just
need to marshall resources". ;-)
Which requires more effort,
and how much effort do we have to work with? If we leave, should we make a
remix or simply offer an additional repository and a supportive community?
don't see a point in another repository. Planet CCRMA and RPM Fusion
have just about everything the Debian/Ubuntu repos have. If we're
going to make a remix, I'd seriously consider moving to openSUSE - the
licensing / branding stuff is pretty much the same as Fedora's but the
SUSE-supported packaging and media creation infrastructure on the web
is much better. And their KDE kicks major butt.
we stay, how can we encourage the rest of the community to accept our
I don't know that they're all that
disruptive. We have the same wishes
all open-source projects have - robust, low-cost software without a
bunch of lawyers getting between us and our users. ;-)