Oct 24 09:00:49      <jlaska> | Roll call for Fedora XO Networking meeting ... anyone around?
Oct 24 09:01:12             * | _drj2_ grabs a cup, where's the beer?
Oct 24 09:01:18      <_drj2_> | err, i mean string
Oct 24 09:01:20             * | _drj2_ coughs
Oct 24 09:01:26           --> | xyziemba [n=xyziemba@nat-pool-128-93.olin.edu] has joined #fedora-qa
Oct 24 09:01:29      <jlaska> | well, it is noon somewhere :)
Oct 24 09:01:54           --> | linuxguru [n=linuxgur@unaffiliated/linuxguru] has joined #fedora-qa
Oct 24 09:03:10      <_drj2_> | Fri Oct 24 08:03:10 CDT 2008
Oct 24 09:03:14      <jlaska> | atodorov around?
Oct 24 09:03:40   <zdzichuBG> | 15:03, almost weekend ;)
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Oct 24 09:04:27   <atodorov> | jlaska: yes
Oct 24 09:04:43      <jlaska> | atodorov: great!  hey there
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Oct 24 09:05:55     <rvokal> | jlaska: hi!
Oct 24 09:05:58      <jlaska> | atodorov:  Iwas going to ask if lsmid or vgrinco were around, but that would be a _long_ walk for you :)
Oct 24 09:06:33     <rvokal> | jlaska: lsmid is joining in a sec .. 
Oct 24 09:06:45      <jlaska> | rvokal: greetings!
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Oct 24 09:07:19       <qark> | jlaska: Hi
Oct 24 09:07:28      <jlaska> | qark: Greetings!
Oct 24 09:07:30       <chao5> | hey all
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Oct 24 09:08:07      <jlaska> | welcome
Oct 24 09:08:19           --- | jlaska has changed the topic to: Fedora QA Forum - Fedora XO Networking meetup
Oct 24 09:08:57      <jlaska> | okay, I believe we have everyone who noted availability for this time slot
Oct 24 09:09:48      <jlaska> | of the group, who is still waiting for delivery ... _drj2_: atodorov : rvokal : qark : chao5  ?
Oct 24 09:10:19       <chao5> | all the xo-s has been delivered
Oct 24 09:10:26    <atodorov> | I expect delivery on Monday evening or Tuesday
Oct 24 09:10:27       <chao5> | the problem is in the installation for me
Oct 24 09:10:27     <rvokal> | jlaska: I've got mine since yesterday
Oct 24 09:11:11       <qark> | jlaska: I've got mine too
Oct 24 09:11:16      <_drj2_> | chao5: you have your devkey installed?
Oct 24 09:11:28       <chao5> | yep, I'll explain in a sec:
Oct 24 09:11:36   <xyziemba> | jlaska: I didn't rsvp, but I'm also here regarding the networking meeting. (Xavier Ziemba)
Oct 24 09:11:51      <jlaska> | xyziemba: great, glad to have ya
Oct 24 09:11:59       <chao5> | first) when I try to boot openfirmware tells me that sd card has not been initialised in 1 sec
Oct 24 09:12:11       <chao5> | I type boot and it boots afterwards
Oct 24 09:12:13   <atodorov> | jlaska: what's the agenda for the meeting 
Oct 24 09:12:40       <chao5> | 2) an error is displayer: unable to find root
Oct 24 09:12:46       <chao5> | and a rescue shell is open
Oct 24 09:12:52       <chao5> | and there is really no /dev/root
Oct 24 09:12:56        <qark> | chao5: I have no problems with booting at all.. it just takes a *long* time
Oct 24 09:13:03      <_drj2_> | chao5: i had to fisk mine first.  remove all the partitions, then re-add them back.  mkfs.vfat it after that.  then put the files in place using livecd-iso-to-disk.sh
Oct 24 09:13:20      <_drj2_> | qark: did you create an overlay + swap?
Oct 24 09:13:23       <chao5> | after unplugging sd card and plugging it back - /dev/root appears
Oct 24 09:13:38        <qark> | _drj2_: Yes, I did
Oct 24 09:13:49      <jlaska> | atodorov: not posted ... 1) I want to get a sense for where everyone is, 2) talk a bit about what our expectations are for networking, 3) collectively figure out how we're going to validate this
Oct 24 09:13:52      <_drj2_> | qark: how long is 'long' ?
Oct 24 09:14:05        <qark> | _drj2_: 3 to 4 minutes
Oct 24 09:14:11       <chao5> | 3) exit rescue shell - some error reported about cpu not responding...
Oct 24 09:14:25      <_drj2_> | qark: ok, about the same as mine.
Oct 24 09:14:25       <chao5> | I've lost 2 days for that.. :(
Oct 24 09:14:46       <chao5> | openfirmware update to the latest version q2e19
Oct 24 09:15:01       <chao5> | swap, and overlay are created
Oct 24 09:15:06   <atodorov> | jlaska: I think i'll be able to get another XO from a friend and I'd liek to test Mesh networking 
Oct 24 09:15:10     <_drj2_> | jlaska: xo arrived, has build 767 on it, as well as f10-snap2.  it works ok for unencrypted wifi
Oct 24 09:15:38      <_drj2_> | chao5: which sugar build did that come from?
Oct 24 09:15:55   <atodorov> | jlaska: added 2 Mesh related items to the test plan notes
Oct 24 09:16:15       <chao5> | _drj2_: 767
Oct 24 09:16:22      <jlaska> | let's touch on mesh networking in a sec 
Oct 24 09:16:28      <jlaska> | mesh is not supported
Oct 24 09:16:42       <chao5> | _drj2_: I thought that possible the problem is in the filesystem
Oct 24 09:16:44      <jlaska> | :(
Oct 24 09:17:02       <chao5> | vfat does't support files >2g, but F10-snap2 image is 3G
Oct 24 09:17:10       <chao5> | tried to reformat flash, etc
Oct 24 09:17:13    <atodorov> | I've seen folks in Vienna doing mesh like networking on regular laptops, will have to ask
Oct 24 09:17:45       <chao5> | atodorov: as fas as I know that's a simple ad-hoc network, isn't it?
Oct 24 09:17:52 <computercol> | \msg xyziemba Hey, probably too late to change, but I'm in the computer lab
Oct 24 09:18:13    <atodorov> | chao5: sort of, not quite sure about internals
Oct 24 09:18:41       <chao5> | atodorov: should work on any 802.11a/b/g hardware, not sure about n.
Oct 24 09:19:31      <jlaska> | afaik, the mesh networking is not yet an approved standard and not available in the stock fedora kernels
Oct 24 09:19:41      <_drj2_> | chao5: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Allocation_Table
Oct 24 09:19:48      <_drj2_> | chao5: (max is 4G)
Oct 24 09:20:00    <xyziemba> | \msg computercolin I only woke up 5 minutes before the meeting so I don't think I'll be heading over.
Oct 24 09:20:16     <clumens> | your slashes are going the wrong way, yo
Oct 24 09:20:17      <jlaska> | so it sounds like folks have things in motion.  chao5 we can likely work out of meeting on any issues you're experiencing over the list/email?
Oct 24 09:20:29      <_drj2_> | yeah, but it's funny after the first one 8)
Oct 24 09:20:50    <xyziemba> | clumens: thanks
Oct 24 09:21:16       <chao5> | offcourse vgrinco@redhat.com
Oct 24 09:21:32      <jlaska> | okay, so expectations ... what is supposed to work, what isn't 
Oct 24 09:21:32       <chao5> | haven't subscribed to the mailing list yet, but will these days
Oct 24 09:22:34      <jlaska> | we touched on this a little with mesh networking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11s)  
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Oct 24 09:23:25      <jlaska> | From what I've been told by jeremy, mesh is not supported in fedora at this time :(
Oct 24 09:24:00    <atodorov> | :(
Oct 24 09:24:14      <jlaska> | yeah, I'll follow-up and see if I can gather some more information about that
Oct 24 09:24:30             * | jlaska keeping notes and will post after the meeting
Oct 24 09:24:41   <atodorov> | jlaska: according to OLPC wifi range should be quite long, 1km or so iirc 
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Oct 24 09:24:53      <_drj2_> | atodorov: wth?!  
Oct 24 09:25:11    <atodorov> | _drj2_: will try to find a link, I've read this somewhere
Oct 24 09:25:14      <_drj2_> | atodorov: maybe in horribly arid conditions, but not anywhere with humidity
Oct 24 09:25:20        <qark> | atodorov: but it does not work that well in the building -- it cannot do 50 meters in Brno office
Oct 24 09:25:33    <atodorov> | qark: max is for open space
Oct 24 09:25:38       <chao5> | _drj2_: funny, > grep VFAT livecd-iso-to-disk.sh \
Oct 24 09:25:39       <chao5> |  echo "Can't have an overlay of 2048MB or greater on VFAT"
Oct 24 09:25:43       <chao5> | :)
Oct 24 09:25:57      <_drj2_> | chao5: trust me.  it works on a 4G card
Oct 24 09:26:14      <_drj2_> | chao5: i'll look when i get home if you want details. (check back in ~8hrs)
Oct 24 09:26:22      <jlaska> | aside from mesh, the main focus is that networking behave as it would on any Fedora laptop
Oct 24 09:26:40      <jlaska> | are there any areas of concern that folks have where we need clarification there?
Oct 24 09:27:00     <_drj2_> | jlaska: should wpa2-psk work with a long key?
Oct 24 09:27:18       <chao5> | _drj2_: I know it works. just telling you that I have been confused by the warning in livecd-iso-to-disk.sh
Oct 24 09:27:44      <jlaska> | _drj2_: if it works in fedora, I would expect it to work on the XO
Oct 24 09:28:15      <jlaska> | _drj2_: of course, it if doesn't work in fedora either, we'll certainly want to get something into bugzilla to track it
Oct 24 09:28:27     <_drj2_> | jlaska: that's the thing.  i dont have wifi on the other fedora boxes.  my key and passphrase are each 64chars long
Oct 24 09:29:01      <_drj2_> | iwconfig complains about an invalid key.  but it works on the 'doze and ps3 boxes
Oct 24 09:29:17       <qark> | jlaska: does it mean that we will concentrate on NetworkManager?
Oct 24 09:29:56      <jlaska> | is anyone able to confirm a ad-hoc NM test with WPA and a 64 character key length as _drj2_ notes?
Oct 24 09:30:38       <qark> | jlaska: I should be able to do it
Oct 24 09:30:51      <jlaska> | qark: good question, what does it mean to test networking?  I think NetworkManager is the primary interaction users will have with networking on the XO.  Are there other major areas we should include?
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Oct 24 09:31:44      <jlaska> | I was thinking we should set down some preliminary requirements when the XO boots (module loaded, networking active, wireless networks within range visible)
Oct 24 09:31:56       <chao5> | qark: jlaska: I think we should test the hardware, not the software. I am sure that the bugs in NNM I have on my normal box will be the same on XO, and vice-versa
Oct 24 09:32:12       <chao5> | we should test the capabilities and functionality of the wifi card
Oct 24 09:32:13   <atodorov> | jlaska: should network be available after powering off the XO? 
Oct 24 09:32:35      <jlaska> | atodorov: no
Oct 24 09:32:37      <rvokal> | btw is there any requirement on updating the wifi card firmware? 
Oct 24 09:32:40     <_drj2_> | jlaska: 30m should work nicely
Oct 24 09:32:44       <chao5> | this shouldn't matter how you do it. manyally, or using Network Manager
Oct 24 09:32:48      <rvokal> | should we follow the firmware pre-releases?
Oct 24 09:33:14      <_drj2_> | iwconfig is better at reporting errors, but NM should work as well
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Oct 24 09:35:50      <jlaska> | chao5: good distinction ... the XO hardware has been through hardware validation, so I wouldn't want to spend too much time duplicating that effort.  My big worry is how networking (and related networking applications) in Fedora will behave in this environment
Oct 24 09:36:04      <jlaska> | chao5: but you're right, we don't want to test NetworkManager 
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Oct 24 09:36:21    <thatneat> | hey, sry I'm late
Oct 24 09:36:31      <jlaska> | thatneat: welcome
Oct 24 09:36:40    <thatneat> | also have to go soon, have class coming up :p
Oct 24 09:36:59    <thatneat> | I'll catch up with another olin person later
Oct 24 09:37:05      <jlaska> | I should point out ... the stub for our test plan is at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestPlans/Networking
Oct 24 09:37:09    <thatneat> | ok
Oct 24 09:37:12      <jlaska> | it needs a _lot _ of work
Oct 24 09:37:27      <chao5> | jlaska: I didn't mean the piece of hardware itself, but its capability to work with the system. driver, etc
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Oct 24 09:37:50      <jlaska> | chao5: yeah, I think that's a perfect focus
Oct 24 09:38:15      <jlaska> | okay, so this is starting to blend into brainstorming on the test plan ... so let's keep going that route
Oct 24 09:38:55      <_drj2_> | chao5: what do we use as a hardware baseline, sugar (767) ?
Oct 24 09:39:01   <atodorov> | jlaska: re VPN - vpnc (cisco compatible) and/or openVPN ? both should work 
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Oct 24 09:40:38      <jlaska> | for a good reference of what I'd love to see us get too ... the XO Audio sub-team has been fleshing out their plan at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestPlans/Audio
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Oct 24 09:41:06       <chao5> | _drj2_: I think we should take http://laptop.org/laptop/hardware/specs.shtml as the baseline
Oct 24 09:41:27       <chao5> | _drj2_: if it is described in specs, it should work under fedora as well..
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Oct 24 09:42:38      <_drj2_> | chao5: for whats listed, that's fair.  is it a 30mW or 100mW radio?  does it support fun network stuffs?
Oct 24 09:42:39       <chao5> | _drj2_: all the leds should work as expected, wifi card should work in standby, authentication and encryption algorythms should work, etc
Oct 24 09:43:28      <jlaska> | chao5: authentication == [WEP, WPA etc..]?  encryption == [OpenVPN, vpnc] ?
Oct 24 09:44:24      <chao5> | jlaska: authentication == [WEP, WPA etc..], encryption==[tkip, aes]
Oct 24 09:44:38      <_drj2_> | psk/enterprise too
Oct 24 09:44:50      <jlaska> | ah, okay
Oct 24 09:45:37             * | jlaska not very familiar with the encryption part
Oct 24 09:45:39       <chao5> | I had some issues with my t61 to support wpa2 psk with tkip encryption, although it works perfectly in wep shared key
Oct 24 09:46:38       <chao5> | autosensing (or not sure how it's called) should be working. 
Oct 24 09:46:39     <_drj2_> | jlaska: aes was added after wpa1, in part because of the holes in wpa1
Oct 24 09:46:39    <thatneat> | there is still the specific issue with networks using the hardware that Olin uses
Oct 24 09:47:03    <thatneat> | that the specs would claim works, though it doesn't in sugar or fedora
Oct 24 09:47:31      <_drj2_> | thatneat: what hardware would that be?
Oct 24 09:47:45    <thatneat> | I haven't asked IT yet
Oct 24 09:47:55      <jlaska> | chao5: would you be open to stub'ing out some of your ideas into the test plan?
Oct 24 09:48:17    <thatneat> | but there are two pieces of Netgear hardware listed on the XO wiki as having problems
Oct 24 09:48:39      <chao5> | jlaska: offcourse. but not know. later in the evening (or assuming the fact that it's friday evening maybe tomorrow) :)
Oct 24 09:48:41    <thatneat> | so it might be good to use Sugar as a bottom line
Oct 24 09:48:52       <chao5> | I have a meeting with my manager in 40 minutes
Oct 24 09:49:02      <jlaska> | chao5: right no worries
Oct 24 09:49:53      <chao5> | jlaska: and have to make this thing work first :) that-s the biggest bug to report. I can not even start fedora! :)
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Oct 24 09:50:27      <jlaska> | chao5: yeah, I can definitely help get that going after the meeting here
Oct 24 09:50:47      <jlaska> | I just wrote snap#3 to the SD card and it's booting fine (no major blockers)
Oct 24 09:51:07    <thatneat> | snap3 is out?
Oct 24 09:51:08       <chao5> | interesting. will try that when I'll get home
Oct 24 09:51:21      <jlaska> | do folks think we can pull a test pla ntogetheron the wiki for us to execute next week?
Oct 24 09:51:35      <jlaska> | thatneat: it should be announced later on today
Oct 24 09:51:45    <thatneat> | ok
Oct 24 09:53:10      <jlaska> | what do folks think about the approach suggested by chao5 ... what's missing, what else needs attn?
Oct 24 09:53:39    <thatneat> | that sounds fine to me
Oct 24 09:54:06    <thatneat> | hope it's not a problem if some of us jump the gun and start going down the list
Oct 24 09:54:10     <rvokal> | jlaska: usb networking is missing
Oct 24 09:54:21    <thatneat> | m
Oct 24 09:54:26      <jlaska> | rvokal: ah, do you have any USB wireless devices?
Oct 24 09:54:39   <atodorov> | jlaska: I do have a Belkin one
Oct 24 09:54:43      <jlaska> | thatneat: not at all
Oct 24 09:54:47     <rvokal> | jlaska: yes, actually there are two in Brno office we can try out
Oct 24 09:55:04   <atodorov> | jlaska: usb-rj45 usb adapter 
Oct 24 09:55:53      <jlaska> | atodorov: rvokal: excellent, that'd be perfect
Oct 24 09:56:06      <jlaska> | well, there's 2 things we don't need to worry about ... wired and pcmcia
Oct 24 09:56:37   <atodorov> | jlaska: why not wired? i for one always prefer wired connection when available 
Oct 24 09:57:13    <thatneat> | I guess we could test some usb-network adapters
Oct 24 09:57:25      <jlaska> | atodorov: true, perhaps usb wired adapters if folks have them
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Oct 24 09:57:42    <atodorov> | thatneat, jlaska: we can make a list of what adapters folks have 
Oct 24 09:57:57      <jlaska> | ooh, good idea
Oct 24 09:57:57      <Improv> | Hey all - recently upgraded to FC10 - what is events/0 and why is it taking 80% of my CPU?
Oct 24 09:58:24      <Improv> | Fc10beta, I mean
Oct 24 09:59:22      <jlaska> | okay, so I think we have enough to start populating the test plan
Oct 24 09:59:53      <jlaska> | chao5: I don't want to push too much on your plate, but I think you're in a good spot to start a high-level outline that the team can start contributing too?
Oct 24 10:00:22      <jlaska> | atodorov: rvokal: you guys want to start pulling together what USB hardware you have access to on the wiki?
Oct 24 10:00:31     <rvokal> | jlaska: can do
Oct 24 10:00:43   <atodorov> | jlaska: was just about to do it, just to find out the exact model
Oct 24 10:00:58      <rvokal> | atodorov: wrabco has it on his wiki
Oct 24 10:01:17      <chao5> | jlaska: okay. just send me an email with the log of today's meeting and the address in the wiki where it should be
Oct 24 10:01:19    <atodorov> | rvokal: I mean the one I got home
Oct 24 10:01:28      <rvokal> | atodorov: ah, true ;) 
Oct 24 10:01:32      <rvokal> | got to leave, cu guys
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Oct 24 10:02:16      <jlaska> | okay folks, thanks for the meeting, I'll send out the notes to fedora-test-list and I'll followup for a meetup time next week
Oct 24 10:02:25      <jlaska> | stay tuned for a snap#3 announcement later today
Oct 24 10:03:10      <_drj2_> | lsusb might help identify the usb-eth adapters (and keep them standardized)
Oct 24 10:03:11      <jlaska> | any other thoughts/concerns before we close out?
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Oct 24 10:04:17      <jlaska> | going once ...
Oct 24 10:04:20      <jlaska> | twice
Oct 24 10:04:30      <_drj2_> | not i, (out of time)
Oct 24 10:04:46      <jlaska> | okay, thanks everyone 
Oct 24 10:05:11           --- | jlaska has changed the topic to: Fedora QA Forum - For tester and end-user discussion on the quality of fedora
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