Hi everybody,
I'm very pleased to announce the first early preview of a new generation of SoaS XO-1 images. Those consist not only of the latest and greatest Sugar bits, but also a F11 base system and a special OLPC kernel based on 2.6.30.
This means now that even power management actually works out of the box. There are some other points, for example the mostly working keyboard keys. But this is really just a preview!
You'll notice only very few activities in your home view, which is due to a mistake in our config files. You'd be able to symlink the folders from /usr/share/sugar/honey to ~/Activities, though. This is a known issue, but if you come across others, please let us know!
Finally, I'd like to take the chance to thank all the people for their tremendous work, especially Martin Dengler and all the folks at OLPC!
Now how can you get that? Just download the following two files:
http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/xoimages/devxo-1.crc http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/xoimages/devxo-1.img
Put them on a USB key or a SD card, plug them into your XO and execute:
copy-nand u:\devxo-1.img or copy-nand sd:\devxo-1.img
Note that you'll need to have an unlocked XO and the latest firmware!
So. Happy hacking and let us know what you think! :)
--Sebastian
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 12:37 AM, Sebastian Dziallassebastian@when.com wrote:
I'm very pleased to announce the first early preview of a new generation of SoaS XO-1 images.
Excellent news, thanks!
Put them on a USB key or a SD card, plug them into your XO ...
Yes!
... and execute:
copy-nand u:\devxo-1.img or copy-nand sd:\devxo-1.img
Nooo, I want to keep my working 8.2.1 in NAND. Can I simply boot my XO from the USB or SD card? I've got an 8GB SD card, I would think that a 2 GB root, 1 GB additional storage, 1 GB swap would perform well. Is there an xo-to-disk.sh script similar to the various transformation scripts described in http://dev.laptop.org/~cjb/rawhide-xo/ ? If not, is http://wiki.laptop.org/go/How_to_backup_your_XO the best way to save my precious 8.2.1 image?
<clueless musing> It seems build engineers go to a a lot of effort to create multiple ginormous downloads in .img/.usb/.iso/.bootable.gz formats when they're 99% the same files laid out in different file system(s) with appropriate boot, config, and partition info. Could some day a tool like LiveUSB Creator download only updated files from the net and create whatever image,read-only CD, or bootable/writable USB the user wants? That may be ambitious, but it seems much like what Linux graphical installers do. </clueless>
-- =S Page
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 01:28:58AM -0700, S Page wrote:
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 12:37 AM, Sebastian Dziallassebastian@when.com wrote:
I'm very pleased to announce the first early preview of a new generation of SoaS XO-1 images.
Excellent news, thanks!
Put them on a USB key or a SD card, plug them into your XO ...
Yes!
... and execute:
copy-nand u:\devxo-1.img or copy-nand sd:\devxo-1.img
Nooo, I want to keep my working 8.2.1 in NAND. Can I simply boot my XO from the USB or SD card?
We're working on creating a bootable image, but in the meantime you're describing what livecd-iso-to-disk has always been for. You just don't like the .iso you're being given, because it isn't configured for the XO-1.
I'd suggest you ask sdz to make the .iso that he used to create the .img file.
Is there an xo-to-disk.sh script similar to the various transformation scripts described in http://dev.laptop.org/~cjb/rawhide-xo/ ?
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Installation/OLPC
If not, is http://wiki.laptop.org/go/How_to_backup_your_XO the best way to save my precious 8.2.1 image?
Yes. Man, that's a lot of preamble for:
1. Get to "ok" 2. Type "save-nand u:\my-nand.img" or "save-nand sd:\my-nand.img".
It seems build engineers go to a a lot of effort to create multiple ginormous downloads in .img/.usb/.iso/.bootable.gz formats when they're 99% the same files laid out in different file system(s) with appropriate boot, config, and partition info. Could some day a tool like LiveUSB Creator download only updated files from the net and create whatever image,read-only CD, or bootable/writable USB the user wants? That may be ambitious, but it seems much like what Linux graphical installers do.
It's because those engineers have been whined at about because many people lack experience typing text at a prompt, or the messages that result from mistakes there. I've seen questions on this list that result from people not understanding that a virtual machine is, err, like another machine (without have the same file system as the host machine). So you can see the definiciencies of both sides, which is an admirable position to be in. But yeah, there's a reason we want to build bootable images like fedora-xo for the XO-1, so that we can just tell people:
1. Download ginormous .bootable.gz file in its 1G, 2G, 4G size appropriate to your removable drive 2. Type "dd if=<ginormous file> of=<removable drive device>" 3. Stick the removable drive in the appropriate XO orifice and reboot
Spend a few seconds contemplating how easy those steps can be. Now contemplate how many ways people might screw up each step (mis-type the removable device letter? assume that dd just adds some stuff to their USB stick and get upset when it overwrites their thesis?).
=S Page
Martin
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 11:12 AM, Martin Denglermartin@martindengler.com wrote:
It seems build engineers go to a a lot of effort to create multiple ginormous downloads in .img/.usb/.iso/.bootable.gz formats when they're 99% the same files laid out in different file system(s) with appropriate boot, config, and partition info. Could some day a tool like LiveUSB Creator download only updated files from the net
...
It's because those engineers have been whined at about because many
Actually, a tool that's most of this smartly, it's called jigdo, and _nobody uses it_. Even projects that do all the setup work and document how end users can use it see little or no usage.
It has a commandline. A GUI. Works on Windows. Fetches only the updates. Delivers fluffy bunnies.
And almost nobody uses it :-p
m
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 12:24:51PM +0200, Martin Langhoff wrote:
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 11:12 AM, Martin Denglermartin@martindengler.com wrote:
It seems build engineers go to a a lot of effort to create multiple ginormous downloads in .img/.usb/.iso/.bootable.gz formats when they're 99% the same files laid out in different file system(s) with appropriate boot, config, and partition info. Could some day a tool like LiveUSB Creator download only updated files from the net
...
It's because those engineers have been whined at about because many
Actually, a tool that's most of this smartly, it's called jigdo, and _nobody uses it_. Even projects that do all the setup work and document how end users can use it see little or no usage.
Reading the docs, I think that jidgo will allow the user to download (say) a .iso and a .img (NAND) file by downloading the files that are contained in them and then re-assembling the .iso and .img files? In this case it's something we/anyone can implement, though I'm not sure it's going to serve a large portion of the target audience (I imagine they'll want only one of the options).
m
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 12:47 PM, Martin Denglermartin@martindengler.com wrote:
Reading the docs, I think that jidgo will allow the user to download (say) a .iso and a .img (NAND) file by downloading the files that are contained in them and then re-assembling the .iso and .img files?
You might need to track the iso and img as separate things. But updates to the newer iso or img are just a delta. If iso or NAND-formatted img files were rsync-friendly, this wouldn't be needed.
In any case, we can do the technical part alright. We're good at this.
The social part is more of a puzzle. Jigdo adds a step and a tool to the process and for some reason that puts people off.
The snarky analysis would be:
- repeated large downloads are annoying enough to complain - but not enough to use a new tool
which is blatantly incomplete. The real thing is that using jigdo depends on jigdo being part of the everyday geek arsenal. It's not, and that's a huge barrier.
cheers,
m -- martin.langhoff@gmail.com martin@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 2:12 AM, Martin Denglermartin@martindengler.com wrote:
I'd suggest you ask sdz to make the .iso that he used to create the .img file.
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 12:37 AM, Sebastian Dziallassebastian@when.com wrote:
I'm very pleased to announce the first early preview of a new generation of SoaS XO-1 images.
Sir, could you upload the .iso for this image somewhere, maybe in a subdirectory of http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/xoimages/ ?
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 3:24 AM, Martin Langhoffmartin.langhoff@gmail.com wrote:
Actually, a tool that's most of this smartly, it's called jigdo,
http://atterer.net/jigdo/ is indeed cool. It's presented as a tool for delivering and updating pieces of a single big file and all examples are a .iso big file. So long as it can also/instead use the same pieces to create a different kind of big file such as a bootable Live USB, or a writable SD partition, or XO-1 NAND contents, then it is indeed a great solution. Do the developers who work on Live USB Creator know about jigdo?
Cheers, -- =S Page
S Page wrote:
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 2:12 AM, Martin Denglermartin@martindengler.com wrote:
I'd suggest you ask sdz to make the .iso that he used to create the .img file.
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 12:37 AM, Sebastian Dziallassebastian@when.com wrote:
I'm very pleased to announce the first early preview of a new generation of SoaS XO-1 images.
Sir, could you upload the .iso for this image somewhere, maybe in a subdirectory of http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/xoimages/ ?
Heh. Well, yeah, I usually would. But I don't have the .iso files around right now, so that we'd need to rebuild this. In the meantime, Martin Dengler has done some great work to incorporate more cool new stuff for the XO-1 into SoaS builds and I'd think there's a new build coming up soonish... ;)
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 3:24 AM, Martin Langhoffmartin.langhoff@gmail.com wrote:
Actually, a tool that's most of this smartly, it's called jigdo,
http://atterer.net/jigdo/ is indeed cool. It's presented as a tool for delivering and updating pieces of a single big file and all examples are a .iso big file. So long as it can also/instead use the same pieces to create a different kind of big file such as a bootable Live USB, or a writable SD partition, or XO-1 NAND contents, then it is indeed a great solution. Do the developers who work on Live USB Creator know about jigdo?
Cheers,
=S Page
Hi Sebastian,
Sorry for reviving the old thread.
On 2 Jul 2009, at 23:33, Sebastian Dziallas wrote:
S Page wrote:
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 2:12 AM, Martin Dengler<martin@martindengler.com
wrote: I'd suggest you ask sdz to make the .iso that he used to create the .img file.
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 12:37 AM, Sebastian Dziallas<sebastian@when.com
wrote: I'm very pleased to announce the first early preview of a new generation of SoaS XO-1 images.
Sir, could you upload the .iso for this image somewhere, maybe in a subdirectory of http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/xoimages/ ?
Heh. Well, yeah, I usually would. But I don't have the .iso files around right now, so that we'd need to rebuild this. In the meantime, Martin Dengler has done some great work to incorporate more cool new stuff for the XO-1 into SoaS builds and I'd think there's a new build coming up soonish... ;)
FWIW: My best success so far for an F11/0.84 Sugar install on an XO-1 has been with your June 16th image:
http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/xoimages/devxo-1.crc http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/xoimages/devxo-1.img
It did need some tweaking clean-up that I though might be useful for the record, even if there's a better solution to getting F11/0.84 on an XO-1:
1) Minor bump I think you mentioned when announcing devxo-1.img were some build issues that put most pre-installed Activities in the wrong places. Usually the first thing I do with any of these non-OLPC distro build is get all the Activities moved over to ~/Activities; get rid of any symbolic links there; and make sure all the file owners are set correctly for the default user so that Sugar can upgrade/erase/install Activities from its GUI as expected.
2) Tiny, tiny fonts, are quite a usability issue :-) Took me ages to track this one down, lots' of dead ends. Slim correctly has its dpi over-ride commented out:
grep dpi /etc/slim.conf #xserver_arguments -dpi 75
... and X is correctly getting the display information:
xdplyinfo | egrep 'resolution|dimensions' dimensions: 1200x900 pixels (152x114 millimeters) resolution: 201x201 dots per inch
... and $SUGAR_SCALING is correct (set by ~/.Xclients):
echo $SUGAR_SCALING 100
Solution/hack in the end was to futz with the /etc/X11/Xresources and modify the Xft.dpi to be 150 to get all the text back to sugary readable goodness! Hey I can even play nethack again ;-)
NOTE: We may want to expose a similar control as a CP usability option for those who are partially blind or with poor eyesight (the Sugar UI copes pretty well with quite large changes in font sizes).
3) For some reason with this build I noticed Browse wasn't launching. It was failing when python was trying to import gnome, seemed fairly critical :-) Turned out to be missing the various .so and the __init__.py. After copying over the content of /usr/lib/python2.6/site- packages/gtk-2.0/gnome from the Soas-strawberry.iso to the XO-1 (same path), Browse was happy and launching again.
4) Paul Fox's new power scripts were working reasonably well, smooth screen dimming, sleep, shutdown tweaks, lid close. But much too intensive for most use; when otherwise idling it would usually dim, then wake, them dim, then wake (maybe wireless activity?). And, I did find that the XO-1 was intermittently locking up. Rather than sit there, constantly wiggling the cursor to keep things alive, you can use run powed-config -a. You can also edit the default time-outs in / etc/powerd/powerd.conf and find a setting that works for you.
There are the usual know issues with audio playback, recording, XO camera support, but nothing unexpected at this point in dev time.
If anyone has a better recommendation for getting 0.84 Sugar on an XO, happy to hear it. Perhaps the new F11-for-XO1 build? I've not tried that path myself, having only recently got my current XO 0.84 install adequately tweaked for my testing needs. Sounds like F11-for-XO1 could do with more hands for build testing, would be happy to help if that's the future path recommendation.
Regards, --Gary
Hi Gary,
On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 09:58:49PM +0100, Gary C Martin wrote:
On 2 Jul 2009, at 23:33, Sebastian Dziallas wrote:
Heh. Well, yeah, I usually would. But I don't have the .iso files around right now, so that we'd need to rebuild this. In the meantime, Martin Dengler has done some great work to incorporate more cool new stuff for the XO-1 into SoaS builds and I'd think there's a new build coming up soonish... ;)
FWIW: My best success so far for an F11/0.84 Sugar install on an XO-1 has been with your June 16th image:
http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/xoimages/devxo-1.crc http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/xoimages/devxo-1.img
Please please don't let this image last any longer - Sebastien has new ones that are quite close to be ready for testing. Let's bug him for those.
Sebastien, can we have another build of devxo? Are you waiting on me?
[Issues: bad activity install location, tiny fonts, wrong Browse version]
These big issues you mention have been addressed.
If anyone has a better recommendation for getting 0.84 Sugar on an XO, happy to hear it. Perhaps the new F11-for-XO1 build?
Right now most feedback on F11-for-XO1 is applicable for SoaS-XO1, and vice-versa. So go for whatever you can get :).
- Paul Fox's new power scripts were working reasonably well, smooth
screen dimming, sleep, shutdown tweaks, lid close. But much too intensive for most use; when otherwise idling it would usually dim, then wake, them dim, then wake (maybe wireless activity?).
Interesting - I hadn't seen this wake -> dim -> wake cycling, even when connected to jabber.sugarlabs.org. Perhaps this is an old issue now addressed (cross fingers).
There are the usual know issues with audio playback, recording, XO camera support, but nothing unexpected at this point in dev time.
Yup - some F11 tickets have been mentioned on this list in the past few days that are applicable (in particular, the camera issue).
Regards, --Gary
Martin
Hi Gary,
thanks a lot for the detailed report and the great feedback! :)
Martin Dengler wrote:
Hi Gary,
On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 09:58:49PM +0100, Gary C Martin wrote:
On 2 Jul 2009, at 23:33, Sebastian Dziallas wrote:
Heh. Well, yeah, I usually would. But I don't have the .iso files around right now, so that we'd need to rebuild this. In the meantime, Martin Dengler has done some great work to incorporate more cool new stuff for the XO-1 into SoaS builds and I'd think there's a new build coming up soonish... ;)
FWIW: My best success so far for an F11/0.84 Sugar install on an XO-1 has been with your June 16th image:
http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/xoimages/devxo-1.crc http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/xoimages/devxo-1.img
Please please don't let this image last any longer - Sebastien has new ones that are quite close to be ready for testing. Let's bug him for those.
Sebastien, can we have another build of devxo? Are you waiting on me?
Heh. Please continue to bug me... I wanted to build one lately, but couldn't connect to the build machine - I suppose the IPv6 tunnel is down again. I'll try to build one again as soon as possible.
It would be great if we could get Martin an account there, though.
I'm really looking forward to having resumed SoaS-on-XO builds soonish. In fact, I hope to have joint releases for each target platform in the end for SoaS v2.
Cheers, --Sebastian
[Issues: bad activity install location, tiny fonts, wrong Browse version]
These big issues you mention have been addressed.
If anyone has a better recommendation for getting 0.84 Sugar on an XO, happy to hear it. Perhaps the new F11-for-XO1 build?
Right now most feedback on F11-for-XO1 is applicable for SoaS-XO1, and vice-versa. So go for whatever you can get :).
- Paul Fox's new power scripts were working reasonably well, smooth
screen dimming, sleep, shutdown tweaks, lid close. But much too intensive for most use; when otherwise idling it would usually dim, then wake, them dim, then wake (maybe wireless activity?).
Interesting - I hadn't seen this wake -> dim -> wake cycling, even when connected to jabber.sugarlabs.org. Perhaps this is an old issue now addressed (cross fingers).
There are the usual know issues with audio playback, recording, XO camera support, but nothing unexpected at this point in dev time.
Yup - some F11 tickets have been mentioned on this list in the past few days that are applicable (in particular, the camera issue).
Regards, --Gary
Martin
I'll second the desire for all platforms since my first G1G1 XO-1 bit the dust recently, and I can't replace it, not sure about pool lending lib long term availability..
ISO, SOAS, virtualization appliance, XO-1. XO-1.5, source builds, and not sure what people do plan to about distros and platforms besides Fedora?
Would make a nice grid/table, don't you think?
On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 1:27 PM, Sebastian Dziallassebastian@when.com wrote:
Hi Gary,
thanks a lot for the detailed report and the great feedback! :)
Martin Dengler wrote:
Hi Gary,
On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 09:58:49PM +0100, Gary C Martin wrote:
On 2 Jul 2009, at 23:33, Sebastian Dziallas wrote:
Heh. Well, yeah, I usually would. But I don't have the .iso files around right now, so that we'd need to rebuild this. In the meantime, Martin Dengler has done some great work to incorporate more cool new stuff for the XO-1 into SoaS builds and I'd think there's a new build coming up soonish... ;)
FWIW: My best success so far for an F11/0.84 Sugar install on an XO-1 has been with your June 16th image:
http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/xoimages/devxo-1.crc http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/xoimages/devxo-1.img
Please please don't let this image last any longer - Sebastien has new ones that are quite close to be ready for testing. Let's bug him for those.
Sebastien, can we have another build of devxo? Are you waiting on me?
Heh. Please continue to bug me... I wanted to build one lately, but couldn't connect to the build machine - I suppose the IPv6 tunnel is down again. I'll try to build one again as soon as possible.
It would be great if we could get Martin an account there, though.
I'm really looking forward to having resumed SoaS-on-XO builds soonish. In fact, I hope to have joint releases for each target platform in the end for SoaS v2.
Cheers, --Sebastian
[Issues: bad activity install location, tiny fonts, wrong Browse version]
These big issues you mention have been addressed.
If anyone has a better recommendation for getting 0.84 Sugar on an XO, happy to hear it. Perhaps the new F11-for-XO1 build?
Right now most feedback on F11-for-XO1 is applicable for SoaS-XO1, and vice-versa. So go for whatever you can get :).
- Paul Fox's new power scripts were working reasonably well, smooth
screen dimming, sleep, shutdown tweaks, lid close. But much too intensive for most use; when otherwise idling it would usually dim, then wake, them dim, then wake (maybe wireless activity?).
Interesting - I hadn't seen this wake -> dim -> wake cycling, even when connected to jabber.sugarlabs.org. Perhaps this is an old issue now addressed (cross fingers).
There are the usual know issues with audio playback, recording, XO camera support, but nothing unexpected at this point in dev time.
Yup - some F11 tickets have been mentioned on this list in the past few days that are applicable (in particular, the camera issue).
Regards, --Gary
Martin
Fedora-olpc-list mailing list Fedora-olpc-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-olpc-list
martin wrote:
On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 09:58:49PM +0100, Gary C Martin wrote:
...
- Paul Fox's new power scripts were working reasonably well, smooth
screen dimming, sleep, shutdown tweaks, lid close. But much too intensive for most use; when otherwise idling it would usually dim, then wake, them dim, then wake (maybe wireless activity?).
Interesting - I hadn't seen this wake -> dim -> wake cycling, even when connected to jabber.sugarlabs.org. Perhaps this is an old issue now addressed (cross fingers).
powerd will definitely cause this -- it's almost certainly correlated with wake-on-wlan. (i've just been sitting in a meeting, with an IRC client running, watching this effect.) i've fixed it so the screen no longer undims on a wlan wakeup, and it's much less jarring, visually. it'll be in the next release.
paul =--------------------- paul fox, pgf@laptop.org
Hi Paul,
On 28 Jul 2009, at 18:55, Paul Fox wrote:
martin wrote:
On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 09:58:49PM +0100, Gary C Martin wrote:
...
- Paul Fox's new power scripts were working reasonably well, smooth
screen dimming, sleep, shutdown tweaks, lid close. But much too intensive for most use; when otherwise idling it would usually dim, then wake, them dim, then wake (maybe wireless activity?).
Interesting - I hadn't seen this wake -> dim -> wake cycling, even when connected to jabber.sugarlabs.org. Perhaps this is an old issue now addressed (cross fingers).
powerd will definitely cause this -- it's almost certainly correlated with wake-on-wlan. (i've just been sitting in a meeting, with an IRC client running, watching this effect.) i've fixed it so the screen no longer undims on a wlan wakeup, and it's much less jarring, visually. it'll be in the next release.
Fab thanks. If I had a more formal testing session I would have reported it to you directly, but I've only recently got this XO running with that build to a state that I was able to use more regularly.
Incase it rings any bells, thought I'd just mention that screen dimming has now stopped altogether for me. I've reset powerd pref changes back to the default but no luck. It still powers off the screen, but no back-light auto-dimming. The closest I have to narrow things is that I noticed the dimming seemed to stop after I manually adjusted the screen brightness with the keyboard (maybe I tried to adjust it when it was already auto-dimmed, or some such permutation).
Regards, --Gary
On 29 Jul 2009, at 03:28, Gary C Martin wrote:
Incase it rings any bells, thought I'd just mention that screen dimming has now stopped altogether for me. I've reset powerd pref changes back to the default but no luck. It still powers off the screen, but no back-light auto-dimming. The closest I have to narrow things is that I noticed the dimming seemed to stop after I manually adjusted the screen brightness with the keyboard (maybe I tried to adjust it when it was already auto-dimmed, or some such permutation).
Many apologies for this, on further poking it turned out to be a "problem between desk and chair" (user error). I misread the /etc/ powerd/powerd.conf comments and thought config_IDLE_DIM_LEVEL was represented as a percentage brightness (0-100), but it is actually based on the 0-15 hardware levels available. It was originally set at 5, and in an attempt to reduce the dimming up/down behaviour, I'd set it to 50 (15 or above is no dimming), and then later assumed it was a percentage.
Regarding dimming: I think it's less that the current dimming settings that distracts me, but the apparent random wake-ups – I'm assume it is network, or intermittent background activity that wakes things up. I'll try reducing the config_CPU_IDLE_LIMIT and see if that helps prevent seemingly random wake-ups.
Apologies, --Gary
-
DancesWithCars -
Gary C Martin -
Martin Dengler -
Martin Langhoff -
Paul Fox -
S Page -
Sebastian Dziallas