https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
Bug ID: 2260793 Summary: Review Request: kwin-x11 - KDE Window manager with X11 support Product: Fedora Version: rawhide Hardware: All OS: Linux Status: NEW Component: Package Review Severity: medium Priority: medium Assignee: nobody@fedoraproject.org Reporter: kevin@tigcc.ticalc.org QA Contact: extras-qa@fedoraproject.org CC: package-review@lists.fedoraproject.org Target Milestone: --- Classification: Fedora
Spec URL: https://repo.calcforge.org/review/kwin-x11.spec SRPM URL: https://repo.calcforge.org/review/kwin-x11-5.92.0-1.fc40.src.rpm Description: KDE Window manager with X11 support. Fedora Account System Username: kkofler
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
Kevin Kofler kevin@tigcc.ticalc.org changed:
What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Doc Type|--- |If docs needed, set a value Assignee|nobody@fedoraproject.org |sergio@serjux.com
--- Comment #1 from Kevin Kofler kevin@tigcc.ticalc.org --- This is part one of "unbreak KDE". Sergio, if you want X11 support restored ASAP, then please review this package.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #2 from Kevin Kofler kevin@tigcc.ticalc.org --- Successful Rawhide scratch build: https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=112520293
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
Sergio Basto sergio@serjux.com changed:
What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |ASSIGNED
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
Fedora Review Service fedora-review-bot@fedoraproject.org changed:
What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- URL| |https://userbase.kde.org/KW | |in
--- Comment #3 from Fedora Review Service fedora-review-bot@fedoraproject.org --- Copr build: https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/build/6969124 (succeeded)
Review template: https://download.copr.fedorainfracloud.org/results/@fedora-review/fedora-rev...
Found issues:
- No gcc, gcc-c++ or clang found in BuildRequires Read more: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/packaging-guidelines/C_and_C++/ - Systemd user unit service file(s) in kwin-x11 Read more: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/packaging-guidelines/Scriptlets/#_user_...
Please know that there can be false-positives.
--- This comment was created by the fedora-review-service https://github.com/FrostyX/fedora-review-service
If you want to trigger a new Copr build, add a comment containing new Spec and SRPM URLs or [fedora-review-service-build] string.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #4 from Kevin Kofler kevin@tigcc.ticalc.org --- The BuildRequires are copied from kwin. The Qt/KDE -devel files drag in gcc-c++ transitively, but I suppose I could add it explicitly.
The systemd user units are shipped the same way (without scriptlets) in the current kwin-wayland and (pre-Rawhide) kwin-x11 subpackages. I am not sure whether it is a good idea to add the scriptlets or not.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #5 from Kevin Kofler kevin@tigcc.ticalc.org --- By the way, I think I could try to use: %cmake_build --target kwin_x11 (instead of plan %cmake_build) to speed up the build. (I am already filtering what I install in the install step, but in the build step, I build everything so far, except the plugins (decorations and KCMs) that can be disabled through CMake flags.) I am currently trying the equivalent for my plasma-workspace-x11 package.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
Kevin Kofler kevin@tigcc.ticalc.org changed:
What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Blocks| |2260798
Referenced Bugs:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260798 [Bug 2260798] Review Request: plasma-workspace-x11 - Xorg support for Plasma
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #6 from Sergio Basto sergio@serjux.com --- is not just set %bcond to 1 on kwin.spec [1] and plasma-workspace.spec [2] ?
[1] https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/kwin/blob/rawhide/f/kwin.spec#_2
[2] https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/plasma-workspace/blob/rawhide/f/plasma-wo...
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #7 from Kevin Kofler kevin@tigcc.ticalc.org --- If I just take the spec and set the %bcond to 1, I am going to build the whole thing and conflict with the main kwin package, which is obviously not what we want here. The goal of this package is to build, install, and package only the kwin-x11 package and leave all the other kwin* packages alone.
Of course, if you can get the maintainers of the main kwin package to simply reenable the x11 subpackage, we would not need this package to begin with. But they very stubbornly refuse to do that, so a separate package appears to be the only solution.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #8 from Kevin Kofler kevin@tigcc.ticalc.org --- There is no **technical** reason why this package needs to be separate. It is only necessary to work around a purely political veto.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
Fabio Valentini decathorpe@gmail.com changed:
What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |decathorpe@gmail.com
--- Comment #9 from Fabio Valentini decathorpe@gmail.com --- The way this package is set up will break part of this approved Change: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/KDE_Plasma_6 https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3086
The scope of the proposal lists:
- Ensure kwin-x11 is obsoleted by kwin-wayland
- Ensure plasma-workspace-x11 is obsoleted by plasma-workspace-wayland
If this package is reintroduced, it would break part of the Change (due to using a higher Epoch), and make the associated release notes incorrect.
So I don't think introducing this package as-is is OK, *unless* it would be approved by FESCo *and* the Change owners, since it reverts part of their work.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #10 from Kevin Kofler kevin@tigcc.ticalc.org --- As I understand it, since the package in Fedora <= 39 does NOT include the Epoch, the Obsoletes in kwin-wayland (and likewise for plasma-workspace) will still apply on the initial upgrade to Fedora 40. What the Epoch prevents is having the Obsoletes trigger again and again each and every time KWin is updated in Fedora 40, which I hope you agree would not be an acceptable user experience. If the user has opted in to sticking with X11, the choice should be retained on bugfix/security updates. The explicitly installed package must not be removed by regular package updates.
That said, I object to the decision to forcefully remove kwin-x11 and plasma-workspace-x11 on upgrades to Fedora 40 to begin with. IMHO, it is only OK to do something like that if the package is really dropped, which is only OK to do if nobody is willing to maintain it, which is clearly not the case here. But introducing this package does not change this decision, the Obsoletes should still apply on the initial upgrade to Fedora 40 (unless DNF behaves differently from how YUM/DNF used to behave with Obsoletes).
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #11 from Kevin Kofler kevin@tigcc.ticalc.org --- I can bring up 2 test Coprs so that you can test DNF behavior:
Copr 1 would have:
testobsoletes-x11 1.2.3-1.fc39 with no Epoch and no Obsoletes testobsoletes-wayland 1.2.3-1.fc39 with no Epoch and no Obsoletes
Copr 2 would have:
testobsoletes-x11 1:1.2.3-1.fc40 (with no Obsoletes) testobsoletes-wayland 1.2.3-1.fc40 with Obsoletes: testobsoletes-x11 < 1.2.3-1.fc39 (with no Epoch)
Then first install testobsoletes-x11, with or without testobsoletes-wayland (both should behave the same), from Copr 1, then enable Copr 2 and "dnf upgrade". The way I remember DNF's behavior, you should end up with testobsoletes-x11 removed rather than upgraded.
Shall I create those test Coprs?
And if the intent of the KDE SIG is to block this package based on the Epoch issue only, I can also submit the 2 packages with -X11 suffixes with a capital X (and with no Obsoletes), e.g., kwin-X11, then they will be considered completely different packages by RPM and DNF, and the discussion will be moot. But I do not think this is actually necessary, as explained above.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #12 from Kevin Kofler kevin@tigcc.ticalc.org --- Correction:
testobsoletes-wayland 1.2.3-1.fc40 with Obsoletes: testobsoletes-x11 < 1.2.3-1.fc39 (with no Epoch)
should read:
testobsoletes-wayland 1.2.3-1.fc40 with Obsoletes: testobsoletes-x11 < 1.2.3-1.fc40 (with no Epoch)
("< 1.2.3-1.fc39" is not going to match the package in Copr 1, would have to be "<=", but the "fc39" part was a typo to begin with.)
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #13 from Kevin Kofler kevin@tigcc.ticalc.org --- The Coprs are now set up: https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/kkofler/testobsoletes-1/ https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/kkofler/testobsoletes-2/ and DNF behaves pretty much exactly as I expected:
[root@desktop64 ~]# dnf copr enable kkofler/testobsoletes-1 Enabling a Copr repository. Please note that this repository is not part of the main distribution, and quality may vary.
The Fedora Project does not exercise any power over the contents of this repository beyond the rules outlined in the Copr FAQ at https://docs.pagure.org/copr.copr/user_documentation.html#what-i-can-build-in-copr, and packages are not held to any quality or security level.
Please do not file bug reports about these packages in Fedora Bugzilla. In case of problems, contact the owner of this repository.
Do you really want to enable copr.fedorainfracloud.org/kkofler/testobsoletes-1? [y/N]: y Die Paketquelle wurde erfolgreich aktiviert. [root@desktop64 ~]# dnf install testobsoletes-wayland testobsoletes-x11 Copr repo for testobsoletes-1 owned by kkofler 696 B/s | 1.2 kB 00:01 Last metadata expiration check: 0:00:01 ago on Mon 29 Jan 2024 07:00:04 PM CET. Dependencies resolved. ================================================================================ Package Arch Version Repository Size ================================================================================ Installing: testobsoletes-wayland x86_64 1.2.3-1.fc39 copr:copr.fedorainfracloud.org:kkofler:testobsoletes-1 6.8 k testobsoletes-x11 x86_64 1.2.3-1.fc39 copr:copr.fedorainfracloud.org:kkofler:testobsoletes-1 6.8 k
Transaction Summary ================================================================================ Install 2 Packages
Total download size: 14 k Installed size: 0 Is this ok [y/N]: y Downloading Packages: (1/2): testobsoletes-x11-1.2.3-1.fc39.x86_64.rp 31 kB/s | 6.8 kB 00:00 (2/2): testobsoletes-wayland-1.2.3-1.fc39.x86_6 13 kB/s | 6.8 kB 00:00 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Total 27 kB/s | 14 kB 00:00 Copr repo for testobsoletes-1 owned by kkofler 3.3 kB/s | 1.0 kB 00:00 Importing GPG key 0x523C8383: Userid : "kkofler_testobsoletes-1 (None) kkofler#testobsoletes-1@copr.fedorahosted.org" Fingerprint: 9021 E66C 8A69 D581 5FD5 F971 05BF 435F 523C 8383 From : https://download.copr.fedorainfracloud.org/results/kkofler/testobsoletes-1/p... Is this ok [y/N]: y Key imported successfully Running transaction check Transaction check succeeded. Running transaction test Transaction test succeeded. Running transaction Preparing : 1/1 Installing : testobsoletes-x11-1.2.3-1.fc39.x86_64 1/2 Installing : testobsoletes-wayland-1.2.3-1.fc39.x86_64 2/2 Verifying : testobsoletes-wayland-1.2.3-1.fc39.x86_64 1/2 Verifying : testobsoletes-x11-1.2.3-1.fc39.x86_64 2/2
Installed: testobsoletes-wayland-1.2.3-1.fc39.x86_64 testobsoletes-x11-1.2.3-1.fc39.x86_64
Complete! [root@desktop64 ~]# dnf copr enable kkofler/testobsoletes-2 Enabling a Copr repository. Please note that this repository is not part of the main distribution, and quality may vary.
The Fedora Project does not exercise any power over the contents of this repository beyond the rules outlined in the Copr FAQ at https://docs.pagure.org/copr.copr/user_documentation.html#what-i-can-build-in-copr, and packages are not held to any quality or security level.
Please do not file bug reports about these packages in Fedora Bugzilla. In case of problems, contact the owner of this repository.
Do you really want to enable copr.fedorainfracloud.org/kkofler/testobsoletes-2? [y/N]: y Repository successfully enabled. [root@desktop64 ~]# dnf upgrade Copr repo for testobsoletes-2 owned by kkofler 3.1 kB/s | 1.4 kB 00:00 Dependencies resolved. ================================================================================ Package Arch Version Repository Size ================================================================================ Upgrading: testobsoletes-wayland x86_64 1.2.3-1.fc40 copr:copr.fedorainfracloud.org:kkofler:testobsoletes-2 6.9 k replacing testobsoletes-x11.x86_64 1.2.3-1.fc39
Transaction Summary ================================================================================ Upgrade 1 Package
Total download size: 6.9 k Is this ok [y/N]: y Downloading Packages: testobsoletes-wayland-1.2.3-1.fc40.x86_64.rpm 31 kB/s | 6.9 kB 00:00 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Total 30 kB/s | 6.9 kB 00:00 Copr repo for testobsoletes-2 owned by kkofler 1.8 kB/s | 1.0 kB 00:00 Importing GPG key 0x8B1D5620: Userid : "kkofler_testobsoletes-2 (None) kkofler#testobsoletes-2@copr.fedorahosted.org" Fingerprint: 3470 88B7 EE33 014E 2EA9 629A 6A7D D82C 8B1D 5620 From : https://download.copr.fedorainfracloud.org/results/kkofler/testobsoletes-2/p... Is this ok [y/N]: y Key imported successfully Running transaction check Transaction check succeeded. Running transaction test Transaction test succeeded. Running transaction Preparing : 1/1 Upgrading : testobsoletes-wayland-1.2.3-1.fc40.x86_64 1/3 Obsoleting : testobsoletes-x11-1.2.3-1.fc39.x86_64 2/3 Cleanup : testobsoletes-wayland-1.2.3-1.fc39.x86_64 3/3 Verifying : testobsoletes-wayland-1.2.3-1.fc40.x86_64 1/3 Verifying : testobsoletes-wayland-1.2.3-1.fc39.x86_64 2/3 Verifying : testobsoletes-x11-1.2.3-1.fc39.x86_64 3/3
Upgraded: testobsoletes-wayland-1.2.3-1.fc40.x86_64
Complete! [root@desktop64 ~]# rpm -q testobsoletes-x11 package testobsoletes-x11 is not installed
So this proves that this package does NOT interfere with the quoted parts of the Change Proposal:
- Ensure kwin-x11 is obsoleted by kwin-wayland
- Ensure plasma-workspace-x11 is obsoleted by plasma-workspace-wayland
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #14 from Kevin Kofler kevin@tigcc.ticalc.org --- FYI, I tested this again with "dnf copr disable kkofler/testobsoletes-1" after "dnf copr enable kkofler/testobsoletes-2", which is a more realistic situation (since the F39 repo will be disabled during the upgrade to F40). The behavior is exactly the same, testobsoletes-x11 gets removed, not upgraded.
The objection is now disproven, so can we please move on with the review?
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
Stephen Gallagher sgallagh@redhat.com changed:
What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |sgallagh@redhat.com
--- Comment #15 from Stephen Gallagher sgallagh@redhat.com --- At today's meeting, FESCo agreed to a preliminary injunction while we consider this issue. Until otherwise notified, these packages (kwin-X11 and plasma-workspace-x11) may not be re-admitted to Fedora. This decision is NOT final, but FESCo needs time to consider what to do here.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #16 from Stephen Gallagher sgallagh@redhat.com --- Link to the FESCo ticket: https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3165
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #17 from Kevin Kofler kevin@tigcc.ticalc.org --- I count only 4 FESCo members having explicitly agreed to that preliminary injunction in the meeting log, which is not enough for it to pass.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #18 from Kevin Kofler kevin@tigcc.ticalc.org --- (4 including the submitter. FESCo has 9 members, hence 5 members are needed for an absolute majority.)
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #19 from Kevin Kofler kevin@tigcc.ticalc.org --- The missing 5th +1 vote for the preliminary injunction was now added in the ticket: https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3165#comment-893932
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #20 from Kevin Kofler kevin@tigcc.ticalc.org --- (In reply to Kevin Kofler from comment #5)
By the way, I think I could try to use: %cmake_build --target kwin_x11 (instead of plan %cmake_build) to speed up the build. (I am already filtering what I install in the install step, but in the build step, I build everything so far, except the plugins (decorations and KCMs) that can be disabled through CMake flags.) I am currently trying the equivalent for my plasma-workspace-x11 package.
This is now done. It reduces the build time by about ⅜ (i.e., slightly more than ⅓), from almost 32 minutes to only almost 20 minutes. This is not as much as for plasma-workspace where the startkde stack that we need is only a small part of the build and can be built in about 5 minutes (because kwin_x11 actually depends on most of the KWin code, unless I can somehow get it to build against an installed libkwin), but it is still a win.
Updated submission: Spec URL: https://repo.calcforge.org/review/kwin-x11.spec SRPM URL: https://repo.calcforge.org/review/kwin-x11-5.92.0-2.fc40.src.rpm Description: KDE Window manager with X11 support. Fedora Account System Username: kkofler
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #21 from Kevin Kofler kevin@tigcc.ticalc.org --- Successful Rawhide scratch build: https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=112776667
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #22 from Fedora Review Service fedora-review-bot@fedoraproject.org --- Created attachment 2014519 --> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=2014519&action=edit The .spec file difference from Copr build 6969124 to 6981267
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #23 from Fedora Review Service fedora-review-bot@fedoraproject.org --- Copr build: https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/build/6981267 (succeeded)
Review template: https://download.copr.fedorainfracloud.org/results/@fedora-review/fedora-rev...
Found issues:
- No gcc, gcc-c++ or clang found in BuildRequires Read more: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/packaging-guidelines/C_and_C++/ - Systemd user unit service file(s) in kwin-x11 Read more: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/packaging-guidelines/Scriptlets/#_user_...
Please know that there can be false-positives.
--- This comment was created by the fedora-review-service https://github.com/FrostyX/fedora-review-service
If you want to trigger a new Copr build, add a comment containing new Spec and SRPM URLs or [fedora-review-service-build] string.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
Petr Menšík pemensik@redhat.com changed:
What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |pemensik@redhat.com
--- Comment #24 from Petr Menšík pemensik@redhat.com --- It seems to me %description should be somehow expanded. First, KDE-SIG folks want to make it clear they maintain kwin, but not kwin-x11. Current %description is *very* poor, if it is considered important building block for the second most used desktop environment. I think it should be clear this package is an alternative version of more preferred variant.
I think both original kwin and also this kwin-x11 should expand %description to be more useful and provide more details about what it is for.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #25 from Kevin Kofler kevin@tigcc.ticalc.org --- Something like this?
%description Alternative version of the KDE Window Manager (KWin) using the legacy X11 window system instead of the default Wayland. This version of KWin is required by plasma-workspace-x11, which provides the "Plasma (X11)" session type. This version is maintained by individual Fedora packagers and NOT supported by the Fedora KDE SIG. (See kwin-wayland for the default version, using Wayland, maintained by the KDE SIG.)
and I can write up something similar for plasma-workspace-x11, which is the package most users will actually want to install. (kwin-x11 is only half of the deal, unless you want to use a semi-supported KWin-only setup, which is a niche thing few people actually want.)
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #26 from Kevin Kofler kevin@tigcc.ticalc.org --- (plasma-workspace-x11 requires kwin-x11, not the other way round. It has always been like that.)
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #27 from Kevin Kofler kevin@tigcc.ticalc.org --- See https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260798#c8 for the plasma-workspace-x11 %description.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #28 from Petr Menšík pemensik@redhat.com --- (In reply to Kevin Kofler from comment #25)
Something like this?
%description Alternative version of the KDE Window Manager (KWin) using the legacy X11 window system instead of the default Wayland. This version of KWin is required by plasma-workspace-x11, which provides the "Plasma (X11)" session type. This version is maintained by individual Fedora packagers and NOT supported by the Fedora KDE SIG. (See kwin-wayland for the default version, using Wayland, maintained by the KDE SIG.)
and I can write up something similar for plasma-workspace-x11, which is the package most users will actually want to install. (kwin-x11 is only half of the deal, unless you want to use a semi-supported KWin-only setup, which is a niche thing few people actually want.)
I would start just with what is kwin for. But yes, something like that is much better. Taken from upstream link, first paragraph. It would omit dependency name, rpm requires says that. But relation to user visible session type should be included. My idea would be more like:
%description KWin is the window manager for the KDE Plasma Desktop. It gives you complete control over your windows, making sure they're not in the way but aid you in your task. It paints the window decoration, the bar on top of every window with (configurable) buttons like close, maximize and minimize. It also handles placing of windows and switching between them.
Alternative to the kwin-wayland maintained by the KDE SIG. This package is using the legacy X11 window system instead of the default Wayland. It is required for the "Plasma (X11)" session type. This version is maintained by individual Fedora packagers and NOT supported by the Fedora KDE SIG.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
Josh Stone jistone@redhat.com changed:
What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |jistone@redhat.com
--- Comment #29 from Josh Stone jistone@redhat.com --- I want to highlight one suggestion that doesn't appear to have gotten a response on the list:
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/...
Can we make the x11 packages be named explicitly as compat packages (e.g. prefixed with compat-)
If the new packages have a different name, with no upgrade path from the old (obsoleted) packages, then this will eliminate the uncertainty about epochs and such.
(I appreciate that you tested that upgrade in COPR, but it still makes me uneasy as a technical solution.)
... and I just found this in comment #11:
I can also submit the 2 packages with -X11 suffixes with a capital X (and with no Obsoletes), e.g., kwin-X11, then they will be considered completely different packages by RPM and DNF, and the discussion will be moot.
I think a mere capital change is too close and will be confusing to users, but otherwise I think this is a good direction.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #30 from Kevin Kofler kevin@tigcc.ticalc.org --- The use of the compat- namespace is pretty clearly documented in Fedora. It is for old sonames of libraries needed to keep applications running. And even there, it is mostly deprecated in favor of just using a version number suffix. Using this for X11 support packages for the latest version of Plasma available in Fedora (possibly even the latest upstream version) would be really confusing to users.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #31 from Kevin Kofler kevin@tigcc.ticalc.org --- (In reply to Stephen Gallagher from comment #15)
At today's meeting, FESCo agreed to a preliminary injunction while we consider this issue. Until otherwise notified, these packages (kwin-X11 and plasma-workspace-x11) may not be re-admitted to Fedora. This decision is NOT final, but FESCo needs time to consider what to do here.
As I understand it, the FESCo hold was lifted today:
https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3165#comment-895243
At today's FESCo meeting, we agreed on the following proposal:
- AGREED: KDE packages which reintroduce support for X11 are
allowed in the main Fedora repositories, however they may not be included by default on any release-blocking deliverable (ISO, image, etc.). The KDE SIG should provide a notice before major changes, but is not responsible for ensuring that these packages adapt. Upgrades from F38 and F39 will be automatically migrated to Wayland. (+5, 0, -1)
For additional clarification: this means that all users performing upgrades MUST be migrated to the Wayland session. They then MAY opt-in to the X11 session by installing a package for that purpose. We are explicitly not providing detailed technical implementation requirements here, but we expect all parties to follow the spirit of this decision when making technical decisions.
so we can now proceed with this review request.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #32 from Kevin Kofler kevin@tigcc.ticalc.org --- Oh, and:
(In reply to Josh Stone from comment #29)
(I appreciate that you tested that upgrade in COPR, but it still makes me uneasy as a technical solution.)
Upgrades will be routinely tested as part of the release blocker testing process, so we should hopefully notice if people are still stuck with leftover -x11 packages.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #33 from Kevin Kofler kevin@tigcc.ticalc.org --- I would also like to point out again that, as I have already explained (see comment #10), the Epoch: 1 is absolutely necessary to prevent the package from getting obsoleted again and again each time kwin is updated in Fedora 40 (and the same goes for plasma-workspace) and that, as proven above (see comment #13), it does NOT prevent the Obsoletes from kicking in when upgrading from Fedora 38 or 39 to Fedora 40. So the demand to remove the "Epoch: 1" is unreasonable and impossible to satisfy.
As for the Provides: deprecated(), why would it not be up to me as the maintainer to decide whether my package should be deprecated or not? I actively maintain this and see no reason for it to be marked as deprecated. (That said, since this is not going to impact end users, this is at least negotiable. The Epoch is not.)
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #34 from Stephen Gallagher sgallagh@redhat.com --- (In reply to Kevin Kofler from comment #33)
As for the Provides: deprecated(), why would it not be up to me as the maintainer to decide whether my package should be deprecated or not? I actively maintain this and see no reason for it to be marked as deprecated. (That said, since this is not going to impact end users, this is at least negotiable. The Epoch is not.)
The purpose of the `deprecated()` virtual Provides: is to indicate to other packagers that new packages depending on this package are not allowed to enter the distribution (without a dispensation). For example, we don't allow new packages with a dependency on OpenSSL 1.1 and indicate this with the `deprecated()` Provides. It wasn't explicitly discussed in the meeting (and could be raised for official clarification if you desire), but my general feeling was that we were deciding to allow X11 support as roughly equivalent to a compatibility package. So I think the `deprecated()` indicator is sensible here, because we don't necessarily want an entire ecosystem growing out of these two packages.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #35 from Kevin Kofler kevin@tigcc.ticalc.org --- I can readd the Provides: deprecated(), but obviously with the exception that plasma-workspace-x11, which is technically a "new package entering Fedora", is allowed to require kwin-x11, as it did when those were both still subpackages.
I agree that other packages should probably not require kwin-x11. At least as long as it uses the shared libkwin. But if KDE upstream goes ahead with their plans to fork libkwin into 2 separate versions for Wayland and for X11, then people may want to build window decorations against both kwin-wayland and kwin-x11, obviously in separate subpackages with separate Requires.
Why I wanted to remove the Provides: deprecated() is because its purpose is normally to be put on a package that is planned to be dropped from the distribution some time soon (to avoid new dependencies creeping in, slowing down the phaseout). But I am not planning to drop kwin-x11 any time soon.
But if someone wants to submit an application that Requires: kwin-x11 for no good reason, I agree that that would be a very bad idea. (The application should not Require any specific window manager, let alone a specific build of KWin.) So if that is your worry, we can leave the Provides: deprecated() in, as I said with an exception for plasma-workspace-x11.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #36 from Stephen Gallagher sgallagh@redhat.com --- (In reply to Kevin Kofler from comment #35)
But if someone wants to submit an application that Requires: kwin-x11 for no good reason, I agree that that would be a very bad idea. (The application should not Require any specific window manager, let alone a specific build of KWin.) So if that is your worry, we can leave the Provides: deprecated() in, as I said with an exception for plasma-workspace-x11.
That would work for me. I think we can reasonably assume that the FESCo decision includes a dispensation for plasma-workspace-x11 depending on kwin-x11.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #37 from Kevin Kofler kevin@tigcc.ticalc.org --- As for plasma-workspace-x11, I agree that probably nothing at all should have a Requires: plasma-workspace-x11. Currently, already nothing has that. The only case where I can see it could possibly make sense is if some plasmoid or KCM (either a new one or one split out from the Plasma releases by upstream) specifically only works in an X11 session, but even then we can do without the Requires, or it might even make more sense to just build and ship the component as part of plasma-workspace-x11.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #38 from Sergio Basto sergio@serjux.com --- (In reply to Kevin Kofler from comment #33)
I would also like to point out again that, as I have already explained (see comment #10), the Epoch: 1 is absolutely necessary to prevent the package from getting obsoleted again and again each time kwin is updated in Fedora 40 (and the same goes for plasma-workspace) and that, as proven above (see comment #13), it does NOT prevent the Obsoletes from kicking in when upgrading from Fedora 38 or 39 to Fedora 40. So the demand to remove the "Epoch: 1" is unreasonable and impossible to satisfy.
of course they have to remove from kwin.spec, the lines that Obsoletes kwin-x11
https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/kwin/blob/rawhide/f/kwin.spec#_148 %if ! %{with x11} # Obsolete kwin-x11 as we are dropping the package Obsoletes: %{name}-x11 < %{version}-%{release} Conflicts: %{name}-x11 < %{version}-%{release} %endif
As for the Provides: deprecated(),
I also don't see why we should mark a package as deprecated when just one group of people (KDE SIG) mark as deprecated and we don't agree with it
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #39 from Kevin Kofler kevin@tigcc.ticalc.org ---
of course they have to remove from kwin.spec, the lines that Obsoletes kwin-x11
I would like them to do that, but alas that is not what FESCo has decided. The ruling is unfortunately pretty clear that the Obsoletes must trigger on the initial upgrade to Fedora 40.
The best we can get is the Epoch: 1 in kwin-x11 in Fedora >= 40, so that the above Obsoletes will only remove the builds from Fedora <= 39, meaning that the Obsoletes will ONLY trigger on the initial upgrade to Fedora 40 and not on every KWin update in Fedora 40 or on upgrades from Fedora 40 to later releases.
Now, if the KDE SIG were to ever add an Epoch to the Obsoletes, then that would be a violation of the agreed compromise and I would definitely take that to FESCo. But as long as the Obsoletes remains without Epoch, this all complies with what FESCo has ruled, so there is nothing to complain about.
I also don't see why we should mark a package as deprecated when just one group of people (KDE SIG) mark as deprecated and we don't agree with it
I am not convinced that it makes sense either, but I do not want to waste time arguing over that, which will in the end likely have no impact on users of the package.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #40 from Steve Cossette farchord@gmail.com --- Could you make a copr with those 2 packages (The kwin and plasma-workspace) with your current spec? I'd like to test to see how it would work with it enabled while upgrading to f40/rawhide.
Thanks!
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #41 from Kevin Kofler kevin@tigcc.ticalc.org --- https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/kkofler/plasma-x11-review/
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
Sergio Basto sergio@serjux.com changed:
What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Flags| |fedora-review?
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #42 from Sergio Basto sergio@serjux.com --- Spec URL: https://repo.calcforge.org/review/kwin-x11.spec SRPM URL: https://repo.calcforge.org/review/kwin-x11-5.92.0-2.fc40.src.rpm
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #43 from Kevin Kofler kevin@tigcc.ticalc.org --- As per https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260798#c11, the Obsoletes in *-wayland is going to be tightened so that we do not need to bump the Epoch. (They are going to obsolete only versions < 5.92.0 instead of < %{version}-%{release}, so the version 5.92.0 I package here and any newer ones are not covered anymore.) So I am going to submit specfiles without the Epoch, assuming the pull requests get merged.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #44 from Josh Stone jistone@redhat.com --- (In reply to Kevin Kofler from comment #30)
The use of the compat- namespace is pretty clearly documented in Fedora. It is for old sonames of libraries needed to keep applications running. And even there, it is mostly deprecated in favor of just using a version number suffix. Using this for X11 support packages for the latest version of Plasma available in Fedora (possibly even the latest upstream version) would be really confusing to users.
I don't care about calling it "compat" in particular. In the FESCo meeting, I independently suggested that it could be named kwin-alt-x11, and that would be consistent with the other "alternative" descriptions I see in comments here.
Whatever the new name is, I think this would solve most of the unease on both sides. Plain upgrades will work as the KDE SIG desires, and their continued Obsoletes still won't affect your new package name. I could even imagine introducing the same new name as a metapackage in f38/f39 to opt into the continued X11 support *before* the upgrade.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #45 from Sergio Basto sergio@serjux.com --- https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/kwin/c/2d111b87f5eb4d4fd5c666ce36762f553c...
we may remove epoch
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #46 from Sergio Basto sergio@serjux.com --- Spec URL: https://repo.calcforge.org/review/kwin-x11.spec SRPM URL: https://repo.calcforge.org/review/kwin-x11-5.92.0-2.fc40.src.rpm
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #47 from Kevin Kofler kevin@tigcc.ticalc.org --- OK, I will submit new specs without the Epoch as soon as possible.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
Sergio Basto sergio@serjux.com changed:
What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Flags|fedora-review? |fedora-review+
--- Comment #48 from Sergio Basto sergio@serjux.com ---
from review on 12 Fev https://download.copr.fedorainfracloud.org/results/%40fedora-review/fedora-r...
Issues: ======= - If your application is a C or C++ application you must list a BuildRequires against gcc, gcc-c++ or clang. Note: No gcc, gcc-c++ or clang found in BuildRequires See: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/packaging-guidelines/C_and_C++/ - systemd_user_post is invoked in %post and systemd_user_preun in %preun for Systemd user units service files. Note: Systemd user unit service file(s) in kwin-x11 See: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/packaging- guidelines/Scriptlets/#_user_units
(In reply to Kevin Kofler from comment #4)
The BuildRequires are copied from kwin. The Qt/KDE -devel files drag in gcc-c++ transitively, but I suppose I could add it explicitly.
I don't have an opinion it is an detail which doesn't change anything .
The systemd user units are shipped the same way (without scriptlets) in the current kwin-wayland and (pre-Rawhide) kwin-x11 subpackages. I am not sure whether it is a good idea to add the scriptlets or not.
/usr/lib/systemd/user/plasma-kwin_x11.service is a service added user unitdir seems to me correctly
please remove Epoch before import the package
no more issues
PACKAGE APPROVED
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
--- Comment #49 from Kevin Kofler kevin@tigcc.ticalc.org --- Spec URL: https://repo.calcforge.org/review/kwin-x11.spec SRPM URL: https://repo.calcforge.org/review/kwin-x11-5.92.0-4.fc40.src.rpm Description: Alternative version of the KDE Window Manager (KWin) using the legacy X11 window system instead of the default Wayland. This version of KWin is required by plasma-workspace-x11, which provides the "Plasma (X11)" session type.
This version is maintained by individual Fedora packagers and NOT supported by the Fedora KDE SIG. (See kwin-wayland for the default version, using Wayland, maintained by the KDE SIG.)
Fedora Account System Username: kkofler
* Fri Feb 16 2024 Kevin Kofler <…> - 5.92.0-4 - Drop Epoch again, the Obsoletes in -wayland was tightened - Explicitly BuildRequires: cmake and gcc-c++ - Improve %%description
This addresses the comments that have come up during review.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
Fedora Admin user for bugzilla script actions fedora-admin-xmlrpc@fedoraproject.org changed:
What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|ASSIGNED |POST
--- Comment #50 from Fedora Admin user for bugzilla script actions fedora-admin-xmlrpc@fedoraproject.org --- The Pagure repository was created at https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/kwin-x11
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2260793
Sergio Basto sergio@serjux.com changed:
What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Resolution|--- |ERRATA Status|POST |CLOSED Last Closed| |2024-03-04 11:28:36
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