Re: Build Error (Job 11111): dejavu-fonts-2_7_0-0_16_943~20060614svn_fc6 on fedora-development-extras

[Nicolas Mailhot]

Le vendredi 16 juin 2006 à 13:38 -0400, buildsys(a)fedoraproject.org a
écrit :
>  Job failed on arch noarch
>  
>  
>           Build logs may be found at
> http://buildsys.fedoraproject.org/logs/fedora-development-extras/11111-de...
Well either something strange is happening, or the buildsys does not
like my alphatag.

If the buildsys does not like ~, what separator could I use ?
I need to construct an alphatag out of svn number, svn date, svn string

For obvious reasons :
- svn number and svn date must be separated,
- the separator must be part of the base latin block
- - is taken as rpm field separator
- . is taken as in-field separator
- : is taken as epoch separator
- _ is ugly, and besides CVS flattens . in _ when making up tags, so it
would collide with .

~ was nice and even defined as separator character in the Gnome
character map, but it seems it's a no-go too

Any ideas ?

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Mailhot

Build Error (Job 11111): dejavu-fonts-2_7_0-0_16_943~20060614svn_fc6 on fedora-development-extras

[Tom Callaway]

On Fri, 2006-06-16 at 20:11 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
>  Le vendredi 16 juin 2006 à 13:38 -0400, buildsys(a)fedoraproject.org a
>  écrit :
>  > Job failed on arch noarch
>  > 
>  > 
>  >          Build logs may be found at
> http://buildsys.fedoraproject.org/logs/fedora-development-extras/11111-de...
>  
>  Well either something strange is happening, or the buildsys does not
>  like my alphatag.
>  
>  If the buildsys does not like ~, what separator could I use ?
>  I need to construct an alphatag out of svn number, svn date, svn string 
How about just using the svn date or the svn number, but not both?

~spot
-- 
Tom "spot" Callaway: Red Hat Senior Sales Engineer || GPG ID: 93054260
Fedora Extras Steering Committee Member (RPM Standards and Practices)
Aurora Linux Project Leader: http://auroralinux.org
Lemurs, llamas, and sparcs, oh my!

Build Error (Job 11111): dejavu-fonts-2_7_0-0_16_943~20060614svn_fc6 on fedora-development-extras

[Rex Dieter]

Nicolas Mailhot wrote:

>  If the buildsys does not like ~, what separator could I use ?
>  I need to construct an alphatag out of svn number, svn date, svn string
>  
>  For obvious reasons :
>  - svn number and svn date must be separated,
>  - the separator must be part of the base latin block
>  - - is taken as rpm field separator
>  - . is taken as in-field separator 
Despite your reservation about '.', that's probably the best option.

-- Rex

Build Error (Job 11111): dejavu-fonts-2_7_0-0_16_943~20060614svn_fc6 on fedora-development-extras

[Nicolas Mailhot]

Le vendredi 16 juin 2006 à 13:21 -0500, Rex Dieter a écrit :
>  Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
>  
>  > If the buildsys does not like ~, what separator could I use ?
>  > I need to construct an alphatag out of svn number, svn date, svn string
>  > 
>  > For obvious reasons :
>  > - svn number and svn date must be separated,
>  > - the separator must be part of the base latin block
>  > - - is taken as rpm field separator
>  > - . is taken as in-field separator
>  
>  Despite your reservation about '.', that's probably the best option. 
It seems plus (+) works, is easy to type and read, and is not already
taken (so no one will accuse me of breaking alphatag in multiple
fields).

I now christen 'svnnumber'+'svndate'svn my official svn alphatag.

If no one objects and I remember how I'll put it in the wiki too.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Mailhot

Build Error (Job 11111): dejavu-fonts-2_7_0-0_16_943~20060614svn_fc6 on fedora-development-extras

[Nicolas Mailhot]

Le vendredi 16 juin 2006 à 20:53 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot a écrit :
>  Le vendredi 16 juin 2006 à 13:21 -0500, Rex Dieter a écrit :
>  > Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
>  > 
>  > > If the buildsys does not like ~, what separator could I use ?
>  > > I need to construct an alphatag out of svn number, svn date, svn string
>  > > 
>  > > For obvious reasons :
>  > > - svn number and svn date must be separated,
>  > > - the separator must be part of the base latin block
>  > > - - is taken as rpm field separator
>  > > - . is taken as in-field separator
>  > 
>  > Despite your reservation about '.', that's probably the best option.
>  
>  It seems plus (+) works, is easy to type and read, and is not already
>  taken (so no one will accuse me of breaking alphatag in multiple
>  fields).
>  
>  I now christen 'svnnumber'+'svndate'svn my official svn alphatag.
>  
>  If no one objects and I remember how I'll put it in the wiki too. 
Oh well, seems the page is locked up so whom should I ping to get it
changed ?

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Mailhot

Build Error (Job 11111): dejavu-fonts-2_7_0-0_16_943~20060614svn_fc6 on fedora-development-extras

[Jason L Tibbitts III]

> >>>> "NM" == Nicolas Mailhot
> <nicolas.mailhot(a)laposte.net&gt; writes: 
NM> Oh well, seems the page is locked up so whom should I ping to get
NM> it changed ?

The packaging committee.  Currently spot is the only one with access.

 - J<

Build Error (Job 11111): dejavu-fonts-2_7_0-0_16_943~20060614svn_fc6 on fedora-development-extras

[Rex Dieter]

Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
>  Le vendredi 16 juin 2006 à 13:21 -0500, Rex Dieter a écrit :
> > Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> >
> >> If the buildsys does not like ~, what separator could I use ?
> >> I need to construct an alphatag out of svn number, svn date, svn string
> >>
> >> For obvious reasons :
> >> - svn number and svn date must be separated,
> >> - the separator must be part of the base latin block
> >> - - is taken as rpm field separator
> >> - . is taken as in-field separator
> > Despite your reservation about '.', that's probably the best option.
>  
>  It seems plus (+) works, is easy to type and read, and is not already
>  taken (so no one will accuse me of breaking alphatag in multiple
>  fields).
>  
>  I now christen 'svnnumber'+'svndate'svn my official svn alphatag.
>  
>  If no one objects and I remember how I'll put it in the wiki too. 
Yuck, why not try to stuff any/all of !@#%$^*() into the Release tag too 
while you're at it... (:

-- Rex

Build Error (Job 11111): dejavu-fonts-2_7_0-0_16_943~20060614svn_fc6 on fedora-development-extras

[Nicolas Mailhot]

Le vendredi 16 juin 2006 à 14:03 -0500, Rex Dieter a écrit :
>  Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
>  > Le vendredi 16 juin 2006 à 13:21 -0500, Rex Dieter a écrit :
>  >> Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
>  >>
>  >>> If the buildsys does not like ~, what separator could I use ?
>  >>> I need to construct an alphatag out of svn number, svn date, svn string
>  >>>
>  >>> For obvious reasons :
>  >>> - svn number and svn date must be separated,
>  >>> - the separator must be part of the base latin block
>  >>> - - is taken as rpm field separator
>  >>> - . is taken as in-field separator
>  >> Despite your reservation about '.', that's probably the best
> option.
>  > 
>  > It seems plus (+) works, is easy to type and read, and is not already
>  > taken (so no one will accuse me of breaking alphatag in multiple
>  > fields).
>  > 
>  > I now christen 'svnnumber'+'svndate'svn my official svn alphatag.
>  > 
>  > If no one objects and I remember how I'll put it in the wiki too.
>  
>  Yuck, why not try to stuff any/all of !@#%$^*() into the Release tag too 
>  while you're at it... (: 
I only need one character separator now ;) + worked, so I won't try any
other (have other things to do)

Though come to think of it, the day someone gets around defining the git
alphatag promises to be loads of fun.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Mailhot

Build Error (Job 11111): dejavu-fonts-2_7_0-0_16_943~20060614svn_fc6 on fedora-development-extras

[Toshio Kuratomi]

On Fri, 2006-06-16 at 20:53 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
>  Le vendredi 16 juin 2006 à 13:21 -0500, Rex Dieter a écrit :
>  > Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
>  > 
>  > > If the buildsys does not like ~, what separator could I use ?
>  > > I need to construct an alphatag out of svn number, svn date, svn string
>  > > 
>  > > For obvious reasons :
>  > > - svn number and svn date must be separated,
>  > > - the separator must be part of the base latin block
>  > > - - is taken as rpm field separator
>  > > - . is taken as in-field separator
>  > 
>  > Despite your reservation about '.', that's probably the best option.
>  
>  It seems plus (+) works, is easy to type and read, and is not already
>  taken (so no one will accuse me of breaking alphatag in multiple
>  fields).
>  
>  I now christen 'svnnumber'+'svndate'svn my official svn alphatag.
>  
>  If no one objects and I remember how I'll put it in the wiki too. 
I object :-)

I think the Packaging Guidelines are unclear, but really specify two
separate cases:

1) This prerelease is a tarball.  In which case it should carry
upstream's chosen %{alphatag}:: dejavu-sfd-2.7.0-0.X.20060614-943

2) This prerelease is a snapshot that has no upstream %{alphatag}, in
which case you use DATEsvn: dejavu-sfd-2.7.0-0.X.20060614svn.

Given that upstream is creating the tarball in this case, I can see
either method being appropriate.  However, I think mixing the two
together should not become official policy.


Prereleases and Snapshots::

I'm with tibbs in that I think snapshots should be considered
postreleases, not prereleases.  In the special case where there has been
no previous release, it should be a postrelease of the fictitious
version "0" release.  It's rude to put upstream in the position of
receiving bug reports about a non-existent version.  Once upstream ships
a tarball with the version updated, you can start shipping snapshots
that are postreleases of that tarball.

foo-2.6.9.tar.gz [Released 20060101]

foo-20060614-943.tar.gz
foo-2.6.9-0.1.20060614svn.rpm

foo-2.7.0-pre1.tar.gz [Released 20060615]
foo-2.7.0-0.1.pre1.rpm

foo-20060616-999.tar.gz
foo-2.7.0-0.2.pre1.20060616svn.rpm

-Toshio

Build Error (Job 11111): dejavu-fonts-2_7_0-0_16_943~20060614svn_fc6 on fedora-development-extras

[Nicolas Mailhot]

Le vendredi 16 juin 2006 à 12:52 -0700, Toshio Kuratomi a écrit :
>  On Fri, 2006-06-16 at 20:53 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
>  > Le vendredi 16 juin 2006 à 13:21 -0500, Rex Dieter a écrit :
>  > > Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
>  > > 
>  > > > If the buildsys does not like ~, what separator could I use ?
>  > > > I need to construct an alphatag out of svn number, svn date, svn string
>  > > > 
>  > > > For obvious reasons :
>  > > > - svn number and svn date must be separated,
>  > > > - the separator must be part of the base latin block
>  > > > - - is taken as rpm field separator
>  > > > - . is taken as in-field separator
>  > > 
>  > > Despite your reservation about '.', that's probably the best
> option.
>  > 
>  > It seems plus (+) works, is easy to type and read, and is not already
>  > taken (so no one will accuse me of breaking alphatag in multiple
>  > fields).
>  > 
>  > I now christen 'svnnumber'+'svndate'svn my official svn alphatag.
>  > 
>  > If no one objects and I remember how I'll put it in the wiki too.
>  
>  I object :-)
>  
>  I think the Packaging Guidelines are unclear, but really specify two
>  separate cases:
>  
>  1) This prerelease is a tarball.  In which case it should carry
>  upstream's chosen %{alphatag}:: dejavu-sfd-2.7.0-0.X.20060614-943 
You really do not want to use "-" in rpm fields, trust me

>  2) This prerelease is a snapshot that has no upstream %{alphatag},
> in
>  which case you use DATEsvn: dejavu-sfd-2.7.0-0.X.20060614svn.
>  
>  Given that upstream is creating the tarball in this case, I can see
>  either method being appropriate.  However, I think mixing the two
>  together should not become official policy. 
It's not as clear-cut as this since upstream tarball is trivially named
after a SVN checkout, so your alphatag is a svn alphatag anyway.

Also the wiki example is very CVS-centered, in CVS you only have the
date to work with but with more advanced the date alone is meaningless.
Which is why they provide other means to identify a checkout (in svn's
case a number, in git case an hash, etc)

>  Prereleases and Snapshots::
>  
>  I'm with tibbs in that I think snapshots should be considered
>  postreleases, not prereleases.   
The guidelines text is very clear that being a snapshot is orthogonal to
being pre or post :

« If a snapshot package is considered a "pre-release package", you
should follow the guidelines listed in Pre-Release Packages, and use an
%{alphatag} in the following format: »

Which is only sanity. If you're 99% of the way from release n to release
n+1 presenting it as n is very misleading.

The guidelines organisation unfortunately muddies waters a lot (if spot
is reading this please separate alphatag definition from actual pre and
post exmaples, right now it seems snapshots are the only form of post
release, and all the others are pre releases.)

>   It's rude to put upstream in the position of
>  receiving bug reports about a non-existent version. 
It's rude to put upstream in the position of receiving reports for bugs
in version N, when the user is actually running N + lots_of_changes, and
the problem is likely to be in the lots_of_changes_part.

When releasing a pre or post version you're *not* releasing the version
itself so *any* bug not specifying the pre or post will be rude to
upstream. Flattening out everything as posts won't help a little bit,
especially since you can't indicate any longer which real version you're
closest to.

That's why good alphatags matter.

In this particular case the snapshot is getting more and more likely to
end up as the actual 2.7.0 (which is less than two days away) so I'd be
mad to declare it a 2.6.0.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Mailhot

Build Error (Job 11111): dejavu-fonts-2_7_0-0_16_943~20060614svn_fc6 on fedora-development-extras

[Toshio Kuratomi]

On Fri, 2006-06-16 at 22:22 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
>  Le vendredi 16 juin 2006 à 12:52 -0700, Toshio Kuratomi a écrit :
>  > On Fri, 2006-06-16 at 20:53 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
>  > > Le vendredi 16 juin 2006 à 13:21 -0500, Rex Dieter a écrit :
>  > > > Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
>  > > > 
>  > > > > If the buildsys does not like ~, what separator could I use ?
>  > > > > I need to construct an alphatag out of svn number, svn date, svn
> string
>  > > > > 
>  > > > > For obvious reasons :
>  > > > > - svn number and svn date must be separated,
>  > > > > - the separator must be part of the base latin block
>  > > > > - - is taken as rpm field separator
>  > > > > - . is taken as in-field separator
>  > > > 
>  > > > Despite your reservation about '.', that's probably the best
> option.
>  > > 
>  > > It seems plus (+) works, is easy to type and read, and is not already
>  > > taken (so no one will accuse me of breaking alphatag in multiple
>  > > fields).
>  > > 
>  > > I now christen 'svnnumber'+'svndate'svn my official svn
> alphatag.
>  > > 
>  > > If no one objects and I remember how I'll put it in the wiki too.
>  > 
>  > I object :-)
>  > 
>  > I think the Packaging Guidelines are unclear, but really specify two
>  > separate cases:
>  > 
>  > 1) This prerelease is a tarball.  In which case it should carry
>  > upstream's chosen %{alphatag}:: dejavu-sfd-2.7.0-0.X.20060614-943
>  
>  You really do not want to use "-" in rpm fields, trust me
>  
>  > 2) This prerelease is a snapshot that has no upstream %{alphatag}, in
>  > which case you use DATEsvn: dejavu-sfd-2.7.0-0.X.20060614svn.
>  > 
>  > Given that upstream is creating the tarball in this case, I can see
>  > either method being appropriate.  However, I think mixing the two
>  > together should not become official policy.
>  
>  It's not as clear-cut as this since upstream tarball is trivially named
>  after a SVN checkout, so your alphatag is a svn alphatag anyway.
>  
>  Also the wiki example is very CVS-centered, in CVS you only have the
>  date to work with but with more advanced the date alone is meaningless.
>  Which is why they provide other means to identify a checkout (in svn's
>  case a number, in git case an hash, etc)
>   
This has been discussed before.  With the conclusion that DATES are
better than revisions in case upstream switches VCSs.  I stopped being
lazy and actually searched for the post::

https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-extras-list/2006-January/msg00447....

mschwendt lists a solution which no one objected to... Use svn as the
delimiter between the DATE and the Release::

  dejavu-sfd-2.7.0-0.X.20060614svn943

>  >  It's rude to put upstream in the position of
>  > receiving bug reports about a non-existent version.
>  
>  It's rude to put upstream in the position of receiving reports for bugs
>  in version N, when the user is actually running N + lots_of_changes, and
>  the problem is likely to be in the lots_of_changes_part.
>  
>  When releasing a pre or post version you're *not* releasing the version
>  itself so *any* bug not specifying the pre or post will be rude to
>  upstream. Flattening out everything as posts won't help a little bit,
>  especially since you can't indicate any longer which real version you're
>  closest to.
>   
Okay.  I can see this view.

-Toshio

Build Error (Job 11111): dejavu-fonts-2_7_0-0_16_943~20060614svn_fc6 on fedora-development-extras

[Nicolas Mailhot]

Le vendredi 16 juin 2006 à 13:40 -0700, Toshio Kuratomi a écrit :

> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-extras-list/2006-January/msg00447....
>  
>  mschwendt lists a solution which no one objected to... Use svn as the
>  delimiter between the DATE and the Release::
>  
>    dejavu-sfd-2.7.0-0.X.20060614svn943 
it'd be nice if that was traced in the wiki, would have saved me some
time :(

Will do a new alphatag then. But unless FE is pushed tomorrow, final
will be out before it hits users.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Mailhot