installing an icon to the desktop?

[Erik Blankinship]

Using a .desktop file in my rpm, I have successfully put my gui software
into the gnome application menu.

I am wondering if there is a way to also put the icon onto the gnome desktop
when installing the rpm?

[Bill Nottingham]

Erik Blankinship (erikb(a)mediamods.com) said: 
>  Using a .desktop file in my rpm, I have successfully put my gui
> software
>  into the gnome application menu.
>  
>  I am wondering if there is a way to also put the icon onto the gnome desktop
>  when installing the rpm? 
It is general policy that applications should go into the menus, not on the
desktop.

Bill

[Erik Blankinship]

On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 12:39 PM, Bill Nottingham <notting(a)redhat.com&gt;wrote:

>  Erik Blankinship (erikb(a)mediamods.com) said:
>  > Using a .desktop file in my rpm, I have successfully put my gui software
>  > into the gnome application menu.
>  >
>  > I am wondering if there is a way to also put the icon onto the gnome
>  desktop
>  > when installing the rpm?
>
>  It is general policy that applications should go into the menus, not on the
>  desktop.
>
>  
I did not know about that policy, but I guess you are right -- no rpms leave
desktop icons.

I was confused by the namesake of the filetype -- "desktop".

While it is against policy, can it be done?  How would you do it?

[Bill Nottingham]

Erik Blankinship (erikb(a)mediamods.com) said: 
>  > It is general policy that applications should go into the menus,
> not on the
>  > desktop.
>
>  I did not know about that policy, but I guess you are right -- no rpms leave
>  desktop icons. 
I suspect if many apps started to do it, it would become a much more
strongly documented policy against it. It's a bad idea. Future versions
of some desktops don't even *show* desktop icons by default.

Bill

[Erik Blankinship]

On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 1:03 PM, Bill Nottingham <notting(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:

>  Erik Blankinship (erikb(a)mediamods.com) said:
>  > > It is general policy that applications should go into the menus, not on
>  the
>  > > desktop.
>  >
>  > I did not know about that policy, but I guess you are right -- no rpms
>  leave
>  > desktop icons.
>
>  I suspect if many apps started to do it, it would become a much more
>  strongly documented policy against it. It's a bad idea. Future versions
>  of some desktops don't even *show* desktop icons by default.
>
>  
While it might be against policy for an rpm to add icons to to the gnome
desktop, sometimes the "ol' show just installed apps as icons on the
desktop" makes sense for a given audience.  For example, we are making
educational software for the OLPC XO and some teachers really like having an
icon on their desktop once they've installed some gui software.  They have
expressed their preference for this option.

So, with this in mind, I am wondering if there is a way for an rpm to create
an icon on the gnome desktop.  If it is possible, could someone point me
towards an example or some documentation?

Also, can someone point me to the fedora policy against desktop icons?  It
would be helpful to see the policy so as to avoid other pitfalls.  Thanks
much!

[Jon Ciesla]

Erik Blankinship wrote:
>  On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 1:03 PM, Bill Nottingham <notting(a)redhat.com 
>  <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>
>      Erik Blankinship (erikb(a)mediamods.com
>      <mailto:[e-mail]>) said:
>      > > It is general policy that applications should go into the
>      menus, not on the
>      > > desktop.
>      >
>      > I did not know about that policy, but I guess you are right --
>      no rpms leave
>      > desktop icons.
>
>      I suspect if many apps started to do it, it would become a much more
>      strongly documented policy against it. It's a bad idea. Future
>      versions
>      of some desktops don't even *show* desktop icons by default.
>
>
>  While it might be against policy for an rpm to add icons to to the 
>  gnome desktop, sometimes the "ol' show just installed apps as icons on 
>  the desktop" makes sense for a given audience.  For example, we are 
>  making educational software for the OLPC XO and some teachers really 
>  like having an icon on their desktop once they've installed some gui 
>  software.  They have expressed their preference for this option.
>
>  So, with this in mind, I am wondering if there is a way for an rpm to 
>  create an icon on the gnome desktop.  If it is possible, could someone 
>  point me towards an example or some documentation?
>
>  Also, can someone point me to the fedora policy against desktop icons? 
>   It would be helpful to see the policy so as to avoid other pitfalls. 
>   Thanks much! 
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Guidelines
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>  --
>  packaging mailing list
>  packaging(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/packaging 

-- 
in your fear, seek only peace
in your fear, seek only love

-d. bowie

[Erik Blankinship]

>  > So, with this in mind, I am wondering if there is a way for an
> rpm to
>  > create an icon on the gnome desktop.  If it is possible, could someone
>  > point me towards an example or some documentation?
>  >
>  > Also, can someone point me to the fedora policy against desktop icons?
>  >  It would be helpful to see the policy so as to avoid other pitfalls.
>  >  Thanks much! 
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Guidelines 
Ok, looking specifically at:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Guidelines#Desktop_files

I can't find anything here about putting an icon on the user's desktop.
 When I create near identical .desktop file to the one listed on that page,
it just creates a gnome menu item.

I also don't see anything on this page advising me against putting an icon
on the dektop.

[Jon Ciesla]

Erik Blankinship wrote:
>  > > So, with this in mind, I am wondering if there is a way for an rpm to
>  > > create an icon on the gnome desktop.  If it is possible, could someone
>  > > point me towards an example or some documentation?
>  > >
>  > > Also, can someone point me to the fedora policy against desktop icons?
>  > >  It would be helpful to see the policy so as to avoid other pitfalls.
>  > >  Thanks much!
>
>  > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Guidelines
>
>  Ok, looking specifically at:
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Guidelines#Desktop_files
>
>  I can't find anything here about putting an icon on the user's 
>  desktop.  When I create near identical .desktop file to the one listed 
>  on that page, it just creates a gnome menu item.
>
>  I also don't see anything on this page advising me against putting an 
>  icon on the dektop.
>  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>  --
>  packaging mailing list
>  packaging(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/packaging 
It's not so much the
Packaging Guidelines directly, but the fact that we 
make every effort to adhere to FHS:

http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#HOMEUSERHOMEDIRECTORIES

You just can't rely on /home being present or having particular 
contents, for one thing.

-J

-- 
in your fear, seek only peace
in your fear, seek only love

-d. bowie

[Isaac Fischer]

So, long story short:
Is there one or more documented Fedora standard that says you can't do it? I
think there used to be, but not anymore.
Is there an easy way to do it? Yes. There's even an xdg utility to do so
properly in a freedesktop compliant way. See
http://portland.freedesktop.org/xdg-utils-1.0/xdg-desktop-icon.html
Should you do it? Not necessarily. Being freedesktop compliant is nice, but
you should always have an application menu icon also. Not all window
managers view ~/Desktop icons. Gnome and KDE happen to do so. See
http://portland.freedesktop.org/xdg-utils-1.0/xdg-desktop-menu.html
<http://portland.freedesktop.org/xdg-utils-1.0/xdg-desktop-menu.html>
Now as a personal preference, I try to have as few Launchers on the desktop
as possible. So, I'd think the REALLY smart option, in the interest of
choice is to have a subpackage that runs xdg-desktop-icon in %post.

That covers your bases, gives the user an option, and doesn't violate any
standards that I can see. If a standard banning Launcher install re-emerges,
you won't have to do major surgery to your spec, and it will degrade
gracefully.

Does that satisfy any|everyone?

*Isaac Fischer*
[phone]
xwaver(a)gmail.com
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On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 9:52 AM, Jon Ciesla <limb(a)jcomserv.net&gt; wrote:

>  Erik Blankinship wrote:
>  >
>  > > > So, with this in mind, I am wondering if there is a way for an rpm to
>  > > > create an icon on the gnome desktop.  If it is possible, could
>  someone
>  > > > point me towards an example or some documentation?
>  > > >
>  > > > Also, can someone point me to the fedora policy against desktop
>  icons?
>  > > >  It would be helpful to see the policy so as to avoid other pitfalls.
>  > > >  Thanks much!
>  >
>  > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Guidelines
>  >
>  > Ok, looking specifically at:
>  > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Guidelines#Desktop_files
>  >
>  > I can't find anything here about putting an icon on the user's
>  > desktop.  When I create near identical .desktop file to the one listed
>  > on that page, it just creates a gnome menu item.
>  >
>  > I also don't see anything on this page advising me against putting an
>  > icon on the dektop.
>  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  >
>  > --
>  > packaging mailing list
>  > packaging(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/packaging
>  It's not so much the Packaging Guidelines directly, but the fact that we
>  make every effort to adhere to FHS:
>
>  http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#HOMEUSERHOMEDIRECTORIES
>
>  You just can't rely on /home being present or having particular
>  contents, for one thing.
>
>  -J
>
>  --
>  in your fear, seek only peace
>  in your fear, seek only love
>
>  -d. bowie
>
>  --
>  packaging mailing list
>  packaging(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/packaging
>

[Isaac Fischer]

Oh, and it should go without saying that you should have the equivalent
uninstall in %postun.

*Isaac Fischer*
[phone]
xwaver(a)gmail.com
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On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Isaac Fischer <xwaver(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

>  So, long story short:
>  Is there one or more documented Fedora standard that says you can't do it?
>  I think there used to be, but not anymore.
>  Is there an easy way to do it? Yes. There's even an xdg utility to do so
>  properly in a freedesktop compliant way. See
>  http://portland.freedesktop.org/xdg-utils-1.0/xdg-desktop-icon.html
>  Should you do it? Not necessarily. Being freedesktop compliant is nice, but
>  you should always have an application menu icon also. Not all window
>  managers view ~/Desktop icons. Gnome and KDE happen to do so. See
>  http://portland.freedesktop.org/xdg-utils-1.0/xdg-desktop-menu.html
>   <http://portland.freedesktop.org/xdg-utils-1.0/xdg-desktop-menu.html>
>  Now as a personal preference, I try to have as few Launchers on the desktop
>  as possible. So, I'd think the REALLY smart option, in the interest of
>  choice is to have a subpackage that runs xdg-desktop-icon in %post.
>
>  That covers your bases, gives the user an option, and doesn't violate any
>  standards that I can see. If a standard banning Launcher install re-emerges,
>  you won't have to do major surgery to your spec, and it will degrade
>  gracefully.
>
>  Does that satisfy any|everyone?
>
>  *Isaac Fischer*
>  [phone]
>  xwaver(a)gmail.com
>  [image: Facebook] <http://www.facebook.com/xwaver> [image:
> LinkedIn]<http://www.linkedin.com/in/ijfischer> [image:
>  Twitter] <http://twitter.com/xwaver> [image:
> Plaxo]<http://xwaver.myplaxo.com/>
>  IM: [image: Google Talk/] xwaver(a)gmail.com [image: AIM/] xwaver118 [image:
>  Skype/] xwaver118
>  Signature powered by
>
> <http://www.wisestamp.com/email-install?utm_source=extension&utm_mediu...
>
> WiseStamp<http://www.wisestamp.com/email-install?utm_source=extension&...
>
>
>
>  On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 9:52 AM, Jon Ciesla <limb(a)jcomserv.net&gt; wrote:
>
> > Erik Blankinship wrote:
> > >
> > > > > So, with this in mind, I am wondering if there is a way for an rpm
> > to
> > > > > create an icon on the gnome desktop.  If it is possible, could
> > someone
> > > > > point me towards an example or some documentation?
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, can someone point me to the fedora policy against desktop
> > icons?
> > > > >  It would be helpful to see the policy so as to avoid other
> > pitfalls.
> > > > >  Thanks much!
> > >
> > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Guidelines
> > >
> > > Ok, looking specifically at:
> > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Guidelines#Desktop_files
> > >
> > > I can't find anything here about putting an icon on the user's
> > > desktop.  When I create near identical .desktop file to the one listed
> > > on that page, it just creates a gnome menu item.
> > >
> > > I also don't see anything on this page advising me against putting an
> > > icon on the dektop.
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > --
> > > packaging mailing list
> > > packaging(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> > > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/packaging
> > It's not so much the Packaging Guidelines directly, but the fact that we
> > make every effort to adhere to FHS:
> >
> > http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#HOMEUSERHOMEDIRECTORIES
> >
> > You just can't rely on /home being present or having particular
> > contents, for one thing.
> >
> > -J
> >
> > --
> > in your fear, seek only peace
> > in your fear, seek only love
> >
> > -d. bowie
> >
> > --
> > packaging mailing list
> > packaging(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/packaging
> >
>
>

[Erik Blankinship]

>  That covers your bases, gives the user an option, and doesn't violate any
>  standards that I can see. If a standard banning Launcher install re-emerges,
>  you won't have to do major surgery to your spec, and it will degrade
>  gracefully.
>
>  Does that satisfy any|everyone?
>  
Isaac, thank you very much for your response!

Now I can get rpmbuild to successfully use rpmbuild with xdg-desktop-icon in
%install... and in the process puts an icon on my desktop (*before even
installing the rpm!*)  I am doing something wrong.  Any suggestions?

Here is the relevant part of my spec file:

Source1: %{name}.desktop
BuildRoot: %{_tmppath}/%{name}-%{version}-%{release}-root-%(%{__id_u} -n)
BuildRequires:  gettext, python-devel, desktop-file-utils, xdg-utils

...

%install
rm -rf $RPM_BUILD_ROOT
%{__python} setup.py install -O1 --skip-build --root $RPM_BUILD_ROOT
desktop-file-install --dir=${RPM_BUILD_ROOT}%{_datadir}/applications
%{SOURCE1}
xdg-desktop-icon install --novendor %{SOURCE1}

[Isaac Fischer]

xdg-desktop-icon can't be done in %install, without putting your .desktop
file in ~root/Desktop or whoever is building the package, because it's done
at build time. xdg-desktop-icon only works for the current user. The regular
user would have to have rights to the RPM database to install even a
subpackage with nothing but the Launcher file and macros. So, upon
reflection, that's why it can't be done at RPM install - you'd have to have
a script which examines /home/* and inserts it into all of them, which is
just flat out wrong. The xdg-desktop-icon has to be done by the user. I
imagine you could put together a user-level service in
/usr/share/gnome/autostart/ that runs a script that invokes
xdg-desktop-icon, and would re-install the icon each login, and then the
user would have to disable it if they ever wanted to be rid of the icon. A
pain to be sure.
*
*
*Isaac Fischer*

[phone]
xwaver(a)gmail.com
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Skype/] xwaver118

2011/2/1 Erik Blankinship <erikb(a)mediamods.com&gt;

>  That covers your bases, gives the user an option, and doesn't
> violate any
> > standards that I can see. If a standard banning Launcher install re-emerges,
> > you won't have to do major surgery to your spec, and it will degrade
> > gracefully.
> >
> > Does that satisfy any|everyone?
> >
>
>  Isaac, thank you very much for your response!
>
>  Now I can get rpmbuild to successfully use rpmbuild with xdg-desktop-icon
>  in %install... and in the process puts an icon on my desktop (*before even
>  installing the rpm!*)  I am doing something wrong.  Any suggestions?
>
>  Here is the relevant part of my spec file:
>
>  Source1: %{name}.desktop
>  BuildRoot: %{_tmppath}/%{name}-%{version}-%{release}-root-%(%{__id_u} -n)
>  BuildRequires:  gettext, python-devel, desktop-file-utils, xdg-utils
>
>  ...
>
>  %install
>  rm -rf $RPM_BUILD_ROOT
>  %{__python} setup.py install -O1 --skip-build --root $RPM_BUILD_ROOT
>  desktop-file-install --dir=${RPM_BUILD_ROOT}%{_datadir}/applications
>  %{SOURCE1}
>  xdg-desktop-icon install --novendor %{SOURCE1}
>
>
>
>
>  --
>  packaging mailing list
>  packaging(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/packaging
>

[Bruce-Robert Fenn Pocock]

2011/2/1 Isaac Fischer <xwaver(a)gmail.com&gt;
>  xdg-desktop-icon can't be done in %install, without putting your .desktop file in
> ~root/Desktop or whoever is building the package, because it's done at build time.
> xdg-desktop-icon only works for the current user. The regular user would have to have
> rights to the RPM database to install even a subpackage with nothing but the Launcher file
> and macros. So, upon reflection, that's why it can't be done at RPM install -
> you'd have to have a script which examines /home/* and inserts it into all of them,
> which is just flat out wrong. 

At least for the case of all locally-known users, you could envision
reading the user database with getpwent(3), finding each home folder,
plopping the .desktop file onto the ~/Desktop/ directory, and adding
one to /etc/skel/Desktop/ for future users created locally. But that
doesn't handle things like school or corporate LANs where /home/ (or
the directory structure analogous to /home/…) may not be writeable by
root.

Still not a great idea, but it would work in the most general case.

[Michael Thomas]

On 02/01/2011 03:14 PM, Bruce-Robert Pocock wrote:
>  2011/2/1 Isaac Fischer <xwaver(a)gmail.com&gt;
> >
> > xdg-desktop-icon can't be done in %install, without putting your .desktop file in
> ~root/Desktop or whoever is building the package, because it's done at build time.
> xdg-desktop-icon only works for the current user. The regular user would have to have
> rights to the RPM database to install even a subpackage with nothing but the Launcher file
> and macros. So, upon reflection, that's why it can't be done at RPM install -
> you'd have to have a script which examines /home/* and inserts it into all of them,
> which is just flat out wrong.
>  
>  
>  At least for the case of all locally-known users, you could envision
>  reading the user database with getpwent(3), finding each home folder,
>  plopping the .desktop file onto the ~/Desktop/ directory, and adding
>  one to /etc/skel/Desktop/ for future users created locally. But that
>  doesn't handle things like school or corporate LANs where /home/ (or
>  the directory structure analogous to /home/…) may not be writeable by
>  root.
>  
>  Still not a great idea, but it would work in the most general case. 
It seems that in order to really make such a mechanism work, you'd need
a system directory (/usr/share/Desktop? or something similar) that
contains additional icons that should be displayed on a user's desktop.
 Then when the user's session starts up, the session manager displays
all icons in ~/Desktop as well as the contents of /usr/share/Desktop.
This probably requires making changes to the session manager, however.

Having said this, I still think the idea of packages polluting the
users' desktops is gross.

--Wart

[Jon Ciesla]

On 02/01/2011 05:04 PM, Isaac Fischer wrote:
>  xdg-desktop-icon can't be done in %install, without putting your
>  .desktop file in ~root/Desktop or whoever is building the
>  package, because it's done at build time. xdg-desktop-icon only works
>  for the current user. The regular user would have to have rights to the
>  RPM database to install even a subpackage with nothing but the Launcher
>  file and macros. So, upon reflection, that's why it can't be done at RPM
>  install - you'd have to have a script which examines /home/* and inserts
>  it into all of them, which is just flat out wrong. The xdg-desktop-icon
>  has to be done by the user. I imagine you could put together a
>  user-level service in /usr/share/gnome/autostart/ that runs a script
>  that invokes xdg-desktop-icon, and would re-install the icon each login,
>  and then the user would have to disable it if they ever wanted to be rid
>  of the icon. A pain to be sure.
>  * 
But that's not a concern because no one's building RPMs as root.

Right?

-J

>  *
>  *Isaac Fischer*
>
>  [phone]
>  xwaver(a)gmail.com <mailto:[e-mail]>
>
>  Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/xwaver> LinkedIn
>  <http://www.linkedin.com/in/ijfischer> Twitter
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>  IM: Google Talk/ xwaver(a)gmail.com <mailto:[e-mail]> AIM/
>  xwaver118 Skype/ xwaver118
>
>  2011/2/1 Erik Blankinship <erikb(a)mediamods.com <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>
>          That covers your bases, gives the user an option, and doesn't
>          violate any standards that I can see. If a standard banning
>          Launcher install re-emerges, you won't have to do major surgery
>          to your spec, and it will degrade gracefully.
>
>          Does that satisfy any|everyone?
>
>
>      Isaac, thank you very much for your response!
>
>      Now I can get rpmbuild to successfully use rpmbuild with
>      xdg-desktop-icon in %install... and in the process puts an icon on
>      my desktop (/before even installing the rpm!/)  I am doing something
>      wrong.  Any suggestions?
>
>      Here is the relevant part of my spec file:
>
>          Source1: %{name}.desktop
>          BuildRoot:
>          %{_tmppath}/%{name}-%{version}-%{release}-root-%(%{__id_u} -n)
>          BuildRequires:  gettext, python-devel, desktop-file-utils, xdg-utils
>
>          ...
>
>          %install
>          rm -rf $RPM_BUILD_ROOT
>          %{__python} setup.py install -O1 --skip-build --root $RPM_BUILD_ROOT
>          desktop-file-install
>          --dir=${RPM_BUILD_ROOT}%{_datadir}/applications %{SOURCE1}
>          xdg-desktop-icon install --novendor %{SOURCE1}
>
>
>
>
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>      <mailto:[e-mail]>
>      https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/packaging
>
>
>
>
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