Please realize that I first clicked on the python-sig request in FAS nearly
a year ago as I remember it. I applied for the python-sig mailing list a
bit later. When I finally noticed on IRC that I had missed something in the
process, I read the wiki and realized I needed to post a Self-Introduction,
which I did in April. So I did not do things in the right order, but the
time scale here is getting quite silly, no?
On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Thomas Spura <tomspur(a)fedoraproject.org>
wrote:
Petr Viktorin <pviktori(a)redhat.com> schrieb am Fr., 29. Juli 2016 um
09:59 Uhr:
> On 07/20/2016 09:01 AM, Matthias Runge wrote:
> > On 14/07/16 16:20, Tim Orling wrote:
> >> Hi Petr,
> >>
> >> It is precisely the security information that I am seeking access to.
> My
> >> job depends on it.
> >>
> >> I have already done everything in [0]. In some cases more than once.
> And
> >> we are talking over the period of many months. So let me ask this in
> >> return: what is the process once someone has done everything in [0]?
> The
> >> only place that I can have any dialog is this mailing list or
> >> #fedora-python. Application to the FAS group is a one time, one way
> >> thing. Application to the python-sig mailing list is a one way thing. A
> >> human on the other end must make some action to move the process
> forward.
> >>
> >> Out of frustration, I emailed tomspur recently, as he is listed as the
> >> main contact for python-sig group in FAS. Other than a response from
> >> him, I have not heard anything else. I can understand that it is summer
> >> and people have holidays and it has not been that long yet.
>
> What was his response?
>
My response was, that I'm quite busy recently and don't find enough time
to work on Fedora in general. I would welcome a more active python
community and have sponsored a few people, that I know, to the python-sig
to get everything going. It would be great, if we can reive the python-sig
and more sponsors will look for new contributors. My initial goal for
"please write a short introduction of yourself to the python-devel list"
was exactly that: Getting to know each other and kicking off a discussion.
I can only sponsor people, who I know and rely on other sponsors to do the
same...
And so there has to be a way to get to know new people or the whole thing
is not maintainable. I am just trying to figure out what that "way" is,
giiven my current situation.
>> But I must reiterate that this process has been going on for
months from
> >> my side. Fedora already has a problem of perception of being too Red
> Hat
> >> insider in some circles. My observation has been that Red Hat employees
> >> have been gently reminded on #fedora-python that they need to apply to
> >> python-sig. I am assuming they have been successful. Meanwhile, I wait
> >> for action on the part of a member of python-sig.
>
> You're waiting for action of a *sponsor* of python-sig, which is a much
> smaller group:
>
>
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/group/members/python-sig/*/sponsor
>
> FWIW:
> - Thomas Spura (who approved me) is not a Red Hatter as far as I can tell.
>
- I've been at Red Hat, working on Python software in Fedora, for more
> than three years before being nudged into applying to python-sig. I hope
> that the nudging was related to work I've done, not to who employed me.
>
I cannot speak for the nudging, but I approved you, as you are very active
on github's fedora-python and I knew you from there.
>> That action could be as simple as, "we don't know you, could you
please
> >> submit a python package for review so we can start to get to know
> you?".
> >> But that still requires action on the part of a member of python-sig.
>
> I'm not a gatekeeper, and I don't know the exact process. But the wiki
> says:
> "If there is interest and shown familiarity with our guidelines and
> processes (which usually manifests in maintaining at least 5 to 10
> Python packages) you can apply for having access to a broader group of
> packages that is commonly maintained. If you choose to apply for this,
> please discuss it with a sponsor of the python-sig. (You can find a list
> of those in FAS.) "
>
This changed now quite recently and is hopefully more understanable. I had
a discussion on #fedora-python with Charlalampos Stratakis and Miro Hroncok
and we try to be more active and try to revive the python-sig.
So, your mail to Thomas was exactly the thing you need to do.
>
> The process should be made less private. On the other hand, porbably
> it's just expected that you're somewhat known in the community and have
> been in contact with one of the sponsors before.
>
Maybe the wiki page was misleading before. But you can only sponsor
someone who you know and trust. If you are actively maintaining python
packages, getting to know a sponsor should be doable.
When I started this process, the information on the wiki was quite
different, as Thomas mentioned.
https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=SIGs/Python&diff=465844&a...
I'm sorry that your experience was not a good one so far and we
hope that
this process will improve in the coming weeks...
All the best,
Thomas
At this point, I am trying to keep an open mind and not just feel burned by
the python-sig community. I am maintaining the only package I care about
that became orphaned. I will continue to do so. I don't have a current need
for packages not supported already by Fedora. So now I am stuck with your
group's desire for me to be a maintainer of 5 to 10 packages. Since I don't
have new packages I want to add, I would need to request to become a
co-maintainer of existing packages. Then the current maintainers might
likely say, we don't know you so no. I am still stuck in limbo. Or at least
that is how it seems right now.
I want to help the community. Why else would I be working on Fedora? My
entire career is open source now. Every day. All day. I think I made a
fairly good argument in my Self-Introduction about my background and my
contributions outside of Fedora for python in particular. I am here
offering to help Fedora as well.
Now it is time to figure out what the path forward is. Reality may simply
be that I get too busy with other things and the bad experience turns me
off to wanting to help python-sig. At least my speaking up is causing new
discussion in the group and I am thankful for that.
But I will note that no one has suggested an actual path forward yet in my
own case. No one actually said anything--at al--until I pinged Thomas
directly. I am glad to hear Thomas say that changes are in the works so
that others may have a better experience.
Cheers.
--Tim (Intel Open Source Technology Center)
FAS: ttorling (perl-sig, modularity-wg)
> Your case could (or should) serve as an example, what can go
wrong with
> > the SIG and a onboarding process.
> >
> > Ideally, we'd have a documented process and a tracker, where status of
> > approvals being tracked. FAS only provides 3 state (nothing, unapproved,
> > approved). Maybe it's useful to do a process comparable to becoming a
> > sponsor or a mentor in fedora (open a ticket in trac, have an open
> > discussion about each person, including a vote.)
--
> Petr Viktorin
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