Re: Removal of Python 2 from the Xfce spin

[Miro Hrončok]

On 09. 01. 19 10:31, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
>  On Wed, Jan 09, 2019 at 09:34:54AM +0100, Miro Hrončok wrote:
> > Today, if I try to uninstall python2 from Xfce spin (rawhide), this is what
> > gets removed as dependent:
> >
> >   NetworkManager-openconnect-gnome
> >   blueberry
> >   gnumeric
> >   python2-catfish
> >   system-config-keyboard
> >   system-config-users
> >
> > Several others go as no longer needed, mostly python2 libs, but also:
> >
> >   NetworkManager-openconnect
> >   bluez-obex
> >   bluez-tools
> >   openconnect
> >   wmctrl
> >
> > While I doubt the actual usefulness of gnumeric, what bothers me is:
>  Maybe drop gnumeric, at least from the default installation? I really
>  liked gnumeric, it is lightweight and well designed, but its time seems
>  to have passed. I don't think we're doing anybody any favours by
>  encouraging people to use it. 
Exactly.

> > 1. It seems that the Bluetooth stack is entirely gone. Do we have
> an viable
> > alternative?
>  Hmm, in F29 workstation, I have bluez-obexd.x86_64 installed, and
>  "sudo dnf remove python2" doesn't touch it. What is the dependency
>  chain that you see? 
bluez-obexd was only removed as it was no longer required. The primary thing 
that got blasted by py2 removal was blueberry.

> > 2. If openconnect is not needed on Workstation, why is it needed
> in Xfce?
> >
> > 3. Can we set keyboards/users with some alternatives? system-config-* still
> > link to fedorahosted as upstream and haven't received an update in years.
> > They seem pretty upstream dead to me.
>  
> > 4. Catfish is Python 3 compatible, but the Fedora maintainer is not [4].
>  I rebuilt the package with your PR. I hope I won't get flamed to death ;) 
Well it's my commit, so maybe I will get flamed :D

-- 
Miro Hrončok
--
Phone: [phone]
IRC: mhroncok

Removal of Python 2 from the Xfce spin

[Miro Hrončok]

On 09. 01. 19 11:35, Miro Hrončok wrote:
>  On 09. 01. 19 10:31, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> > On Wed, Jan 09, 2019 at 09:34:54AM +0100, Miro Hrončok wrote:
> >> Today, if I try to uninstall python2 from Xfce spin (rawhide), this is what
> >> gets removed as dependent:
> >>
> >>   NetworkManager-openconnect-gnome
> >>   blueberry
> >>   gnumeric
> >>   python2-catfish
> >>   system-config-keyboard
> >>   system-config-users
> >>
> >> Several others go as no longer needed, mostly python2 libs, but also:
> >>
> >>   NetworkManager-openconnect
> >>   bluez-obex
> >>   bluez-tools
> >>   openconnect
> >>   wmctrl
> >>
> >> While I doubt the actual usefulness of gnumeric, what bothers me is:
> > Maybe drop gnumeric, at least from the default installation? I really
> > liked gnumeric, it is lightweight and well designed, but its time seems
> > to have passed. I don't think we're doing anybody any favours by
> > encouraging people to use it.
>  
>  Exactly.
>  
> >> 1. It seems that the Bluetooth stack is entirely gone. Do we have an viable
> >> alternative?
> > Hmm, in F29 workstation, I have bluez-obexd.x86_64 installed, and
> > "sudo dnf remove python2" doesn't touch it. What is the dependency
> > chain that you see?
>  
>  bluez-obexd was only removed as it was no longer required. The primary thing 
>  that got blasted by py2 removal was blueberry.
>  
> >> 2. If openconnect is not needed on Workstation, why is it needed in Xfce?
> >>
> >> 3. Can we set keyboards/users with some alternatives? system-config-* still
> >> link to fedorahosted as upstream and haven't received an update in years.
> >> They seem pretty upstream dead to me.
> >
> >> 4. Catfish is Python 3 compatible, but the Fedora maintainer is not [4].
> > I rebuilt the package with your PR. I hope I won't get flamed to death ;)
>  
>  Well it's my commit, so maybe I will get flamed :D 
Aaaand... it's reverted :D

-- 
Miro Hrončok
--
Phone: [phone]
IRC: mhroncok

Removal of Python 2 from the Xfce spin

[Jason L Tibbitts III]

> >>>> "MH" == Miro Hrončok
> <mhroncok(a)redhat.com&gt; writes: 
MH> Aaaand... it's reverted :D

He reverts any of the commits I have made to the packages he maintains
as well.  Just mass cleanup things like the removal of defattr.
Reverted with a completely empty commit message.

I really don't want to get into a revert war with the guy.  It's just
pointless.  I guess at some point either FPC or FESCo will have to talk
about it.

 - J<

Removal of Python 2 from the Xfce spin

[Nick Coghlan]

On Thu, 10 Jan 2019 at 03:14, Jason L Tibbitts III <tibbs(a)math.uh.edu&gt; wrote:
>  >>>>> "MH" == Miro Hrončok <mhroncok(a)redhat.com&gt; writes:
>
>  MH> Aaaand... it's reverted :D
>
>  He reverts any of the commits I have made to the packages he maintains
>  as well.  Just mass cleanup things like the removal of defattr.
>  Reverted with a completely empty commit message.
>
>  I really don't want to get into a revert war with the guy.  It's just
>  pointless.  I guess at some point either FPC or FESCo will have to talk
>  about it. 
The reversion from single-binary-package to dual-binary-packages was
similar inaccurate, as it just says "Rebuilt" rather than "Revert to
producing separate Py2 and Py3 packages":
https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/catfish/c/7ae2507b600accf729c8a21808d2...

It also *deleted* the changelog entry for 1.4.5-2, rather than just
adding the new one.

Given that Miro's change was to bring the package into line with the
distro packaging policy, it seems really strange to me that a package
maintainer would be free to just ignore the policy.

Anyway, Zbigniew has resubmitted the change to make the package policy
compliant as a new PR:
https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/catfish/pull-request/2

Cheers,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan(a)gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia

Removal of Python 2 from the Xfce spin

[Miro Hrončok]

On 13. 01. 19 7:57, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>  On Thu, 10 Jan 2019 at 03:14, Jason L Tibbitts III
> <tibbs(a)math.uh.edu&gt; wrote:
> >
> >>>>>> "MH" == Miro Hrončok <mhroncok(a)redhat.com&gt;
> writes:
> >
> > MH> Aaaand... it's reverted :D
> >
> > He reverts any of the commits I have made to the packages he maintains
> > as well.  Just mass cleanup things like the removal of defattr.
> > Reverted with a completely empty commit message.
> >
> > I really don't want to get into a revert war with the guy.  It's just
> > pointless.  I guess at some point either FPC or FESCo will have to talk
> > about it.
>  
>  The reversion from single-binary-package to dual-binary-packages was
>  similar inaccurate, as it just says "Rebuilt" rather than "Revert to
>  producing separate Py2 and Py3 packages":
>
> https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/catfish/c/7ae2507b600accf729c8a21808d2...
>  
>  It also *deleted* the changelog entry for 1.4.5-2, rather than just
>  adding the new one.
>  
>  Given that Miro's change was to bring the package into line with the
>  distro packaging policy, it seems really strange to me that a package
>  maintainer would be free to just ignore the policy.
>  
>  Anyway, Zbigniew has resubmitted the change to make the package policy
>  compliant as a new PR:
>  https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/catfish/pull-request/2 
This is a result of https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2050

-- 
Miro Hrončok
--
Phone: [phone]
IRC: mhroncok

Removal of Python 2 from the Xfce spin

[Nick Coghlan]

On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 at 19:36, Miro Hrončok <mhroncok(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  On 13. 01. 19 7:57, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>  > Anyway, Zbigniew has resubmitted the change to make the package policy
>  > compliant as a new PR:
>  > https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/catfish/pull-request/2
>
>  This is a result of https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2050 
Ah, nice.

Good to see that this particular situation was able to be resolved
relatively amicably, while also providing a precedent that failing to
abide by FPC/FESCo decisions can be approached as a variant of the
"Non-responsive maintainer" case.

Cheers,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan(a)gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia