Re: a special Fedora spin

[Ben Cotton]

Hi Vojtech,

I don't have an answer for your questions, so I have copied the
Release Engineering team who can give you the answers you need. I love
this spin idea, and am happy to help in whatever way I can.


Thanks,
BC

On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 11:59 AM Vojtech Polasek <vpolasek(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  Hello Ben,
>
>  my name is Vojta and I am a blind software engineer working for RH in
>  Brno, Czech Republic. I am working in platform security, but this is not
>  that important for this mail.
>
>  Me and several other friends from RH are working on a special Linux
>  distribution for blind and visually impaired users. This distribution is
>  currently based on Fedora. We would like to make a spin from it. But I
>  have a special question, see below.
>
>  I know that if I apply for a spin, the lab infrastructure can create ISO
>  live images from kickstarts. That is nice. But...
>
>  While demonstrating our distro to potential users, we chose a bit
>  different way than others. Instead of live images shipped on USB drives,
>  we chose to create a full installation of the system and place it on the
>  USB drive. This has several benefits compared to live images:
>
>  - changes made by users are persistent and not limited to 4 Gb
>
>  - it is possible to partition the USB drive and create an additional
>  partition formatted as Exfat for transfering data between Linux and
>  non-Linux world
>
>  - users can come to whatever computer and boot the system with their
>  personal configuration, data, software...
>
>  - users can have almost the same experience as if the system was
>  installed on their primary hard drive
>
>  It can have its drawbacks but we used this approach already two times
>  while presenting our "spin" on special workshops and we think it worked
>  very well.
>
>  I am not against live images and if we  create a Fedora spin, we will
>  definitely offer them as well. But I believe the described alternative
>  approach has its benefits-
>
>  The whole process is described here:
>
>  https://github.com/vojtapolasek/Fegora
>
>  Currently we use a VM to perform an automated kickstart installation and
>  then we transfer the raw image on an USB drive.
>
>  My question now is: could the infrastructure used for production of
>  Fedora spins be used to create not only live images but also our custom
>  raw disk images? If not, could we at least use those resources to store
>  such images?
>
>  Feel free to ask if you need further clarifications etc.
>
>  Best regards,
>
>  Vojta
>
>  

-- 
Ben Cotton
He / Him / His
Fedora Program Manager
Red Hat
TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis

a special Fedora spin

[Peter Robinson]

On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 6:40 PM Ben Cotton <bcotton(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  Hi Vojtech,
>
>  I don't have an answer for your questions, so I have copied the
>  Release Engineering team who can give you the answers you need. I love
>  this spin idea, and am happy to help in whatever way I can.
>
>
>  Thanks,
>  BC
>
>  On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 11:59 AM Vojtech Polasek <vpolasek(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  >
>  > Hello Ben,
>  >
>  > my name is Vojta and I am a blind software engineer working for RH in
>  > Brno, Czech Republic. I am working in platform security, but this is not
>  > that important for this mail.
>  >
>  > Me and several other friends from RH are working on a special Linux
>  > distribution for blind and visually impaired users. This distribution is
>  > currently based on Fedora. We would like to make a spin from it. But I
>  > have a special question, see below.
>  >
>  > I know that if I apply for a spin, the lab infrastructure can create ISO
>  > live images from kickstarts. That is nice. But...
>  >
>  > While demonstrating our distro to potential users, we chose a bit
>  > different way than others. Instead of live images shipped on USB drives,
>  > we chose to create a full installation of the system and place it on the
>  > USB drive. This has several benefits compared to live images:
>  >
>  > - changes made by users are persistent and not limited to 4 Gb
>  >
>  > - it is possible to partition the USB drive and create an additional
>  > partition formatted as Exfat for transfering data between Linux and
>  > non-Linux world
>  >
>  > - users can come to whatever computer and boot the system with their
>  > personal configuration, data, software...
>  >
>  > - users can have almost the same experience as if the system was
>  > installed on their primary hard drive
>  >
>  > It can have its drawbacks but we used this approach already two times
>  > while presenting our "spin" on special workshops and we think it worked
>  > very well.
>  >
>  > I am not against live images and if we  create a Fedora spin, we will
>  > definitely offer them as well. But I believe the described alternative
>  > approach has its benefits-
>  >
>  > The whole process is described here:
>  >
>  > https://github.com/vojtapolasek/Fegora
>  >
>  > Currently we use a VM to perform an automated kickstart installation and
>  > then we transfer the raw image on an USB drive.
>  >
>  > My question now is: could the infrastructure used for production of
>  > Fedora spins be used to create not only live images but also our custom
>  > raw disk images? If not, could we at least use those resources to store
>  > such images? 
We can achieve that easily, it's the same process we use for the
aarch64/iot/cloud images. I suspect it would need a FESCo exception
for the change but from an infra PoV it works now.

a special Fedora spin

[Vojtěch Polášek]

Hi,

sorry for writing under a different mail, but I did not have Fedora 
account before.

So do I understand it right that if we have our spin ready, we can start 
the standard spin enrollment process and mention there that we want also 
disk images generated?

Thank you,

Vojta

Dne 05. 02. 20 v 10:04 Peter Robinson napsal(a):
> On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 6:40 PM Ben Cotton <bcotton(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>> Hi Vojtech,
>>
>> I don't have an answer for your questions, so I have copied the
>> Release Engineering team who can give you the answers you need. I love
>> this spin idea, and am happy to help in whatever way I can.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> BC
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 11:59 AM Vojtech Polasek <vpolasek(a)redhat.com&gt; 
>> wrote:
>>> Hello Ben,
>>>
>>> my name is Vojta and I am a blind software engineer working for RH in
>>> Brno, Czech Republic. I am working in platform security, but this is not
>>> that important for this mail.
>>>
>>> Me and several other friends from RH are working on a special Linux
>>> distribution for blind and visually impaired users. This distribution is
>>> currently based on Fedora. We would like to make a spin from it. But I
>>> have a special question, see below.
>>>
>>> I know that if I apply for a spin, the lab infrastructure can create ISO
>>> live images from kickstarts. That is nice. But...
>>>
>>> While demonstrating our distro to potential users, we chose a bit
>>> different way than others. Instead of live images shipped on USB drives,
>>> we chose to create a full installation of the system and place it on the
>>> USB drive. This has several benefits compared to live images:
>>>
>>> - changes made by users are persistent and not limited to 4 Gb
>>>
>>> - it is possible to partition the USB drive and create an additional
>>> partition formatted as Exfat for transfering data between Linux and
>>> non-Linux world
>>>
>>> - users can come to whatever computer and boot the system with their
>>> personal configuration, data, software...
>>>
>>> - users can have almost the same experience as if the system was
>>> installed on their primary hard drive
>>>
>>> It can have its drawbacks but we used this approach already two times
>>> while presenting our "spin" on special workshops and we think it
worked
>>> very well.
>>>
>>> I am not against live images and if we create a Fedora spin, we will
>>> definitely offer them as well. But I believe the described alternative
>>> approach has its benefits-
>>>
>>> The whole process is described here:
>>>
>>> https://github.com/vojtapolasek/Fegora
>>>
>>> Currently we use a VM to perform an automated kickstart installation and
>>> then we transfer the raw image on an USB drive.
>>>
>>> My question now is: could the infrastructure used for production of
>>> Fedora spins be used to create not only live images but also our custom
>>> raw disk images? If not, could we at least use those resources to store
>>> such images?
> We can achieve that easily, it's the same process we use for the
> aarch64/iot/cloud images. I suspect it would need a FESCo exception
> for the change but from an infra PoV it works now.
>

a special Fedora spin

[Mohan Boddu]

Hi,

Adding a new spin requires a new change request
(https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/program_management/changes_policy/)
and then for your raw disk images, you need to file a ticket with
FESCo (https://pagure.io/fesco/issues) explain why you want it and
link both of them together.

Once approved, you can create a PR to fedora-kickstarts
(https://pagure.io/fedora-kickstarts) and fedora-comps
(https://pagure.io/fedora-comps) for required changes. Once merged, we
will add it to releng configs which will generate the image for you.

Hope that helps.

Thanks.

On Wed, Feb 5, 2020 at 5:07 AM Vojtěch Polášek <krecoun(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> sorry for writing under a different mail, but I did not have Fedora
> account before.
>
> So do I understand it right that if we have our spin ready, we can start
> the standard spin enrollment process and mention there that we want also
> disk images generated?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Vojta
>
> Dne 05. 02. 20 v 10:04 Peter Robinson napsal(a):
> > On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 6:40 PM Ben Cotton <bcotton(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
> >> Hi Vojtech,
> >>
> >> I don't have an answer for your questions, so I have copied the
> >> Release Engineering team who can give you the answers you need. I love
> >> this spin idea, and am happy to help in whatever way I can.
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> BC
> >>
> >> On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 11:59 AM Vojtech Polasek <vpolasek(a)redhat.com&gt;
> >> wrote:
> >>> Hello Ben,
> >>>
> >>> my name is Vojta and I am a blind software engineer working for RH in
> >>> Brno, Czech Republic. I am working in platform security, but this is
not
> >>> that important for this mail.
> >>>
> >>> Me and several other friends from RH are working on a special Linux
> >>> distribution for blind and visually impaired users. This distribution
is
> >>> currently based on Fedora. We would like to make a spin from it. But I
> >>> have a special question, see below.
> >>>
> >>> I know that if I apply for a spin, the lab infrastructure can create
ISO
> >>> live images from kickstarts. That is nice. But...
> >>>
> >>> While demonstrating our distro to potential users, we chose a bit
> >>> different way than others. Instead of live images shipped on USB
drives,
> >>> we chose to create a full installation of the system and place it on
the
> >>> USB drive. This has several benefits compared to live images:
> >>>
> >>> - changes made by users are persistent and not limited to 4 Gb
> >>>
> >>> - it is possible to partition the USB drive and create an additional
> >>> partition formatted as Exfat for transfering data between Linux and
> >>> non-Linux world
> >>>
> >>> - users can come to whatever computer and boot the system with their
> >>> personal configuration, data, software...
> >>>
> >>> - users can have almost the same experience as if the system was
> >>> installed on their primary hard drive
> >>>
> >>> It can have its drawbacks but we used this approach already two times
> >>> while presenting our "spin" on special workshops and we think
it worked
> >>> very well.
> >>>
> >>> I am not against live images and if we create a Fedora spin, we will
> >>> definitely offer them as well. But I believe the described alternative
> >>> approach has its benefits-
> >>>
> >>> The whole process is described here:
> >>>
> >>> https://github.com/vojtapolasek/Fegora
> >>>
> >>> Currently we use a VM to perform an automated kickstart installation
and
> >>> then we transfer the raw image on an USB drive.
> >>>
> >>> My question now is: could the infrastructure used for production of
> >>> Fedora spins be used to create not only live images but also our custom
> >>> raw disk images? If not, could we at least use those resources to store
> >>> such images?
> > We can achieve that easily, it's the same process we use for the
> > aarch64/iot/cloud images. I suspect it would need a FESCo exception
> > for the change but from an infra PoV it works now.
> >
> _______________________________________________
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a special Fedora spin

[Matthew Miller]

On Wed, Feb 05, 2020 at 09:04:31AM +0000, Peter Robinson wrote:
>  We can achieve that easily, it's the same process we use for the
>  aarch64/iot/cloud images. I suspect it would need a FESCo exception
>  for the change but from an infra PoV it works now. 
For what it's worth, I support this if it's what's best for your use case.
That's very in line with the Fedora Project mission.

-- 
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
Fedora Project Leader

a special Fedora spin

[Vojtěch Polášek]

Hello all,

I was discussing my plan at #fedora-respins at Freenode and we came upon 
interesting problem.

Just fyi, the project is here:

https://github.com/vojtapolasek/Fegora

We are currently installing some software by cloning the git repo during 
image creation and installing it  into the system, no package manager 
involved.

I know it is bad. But I am afraid it won't be easy to get this directly 
into fedora.

Can we use Copr repos in spins? And in general,    are somewhere 
guidelines about what  cannot be in spin?

Thank you,

Vojta

Dne 10. 02. 20 v 21:29 Matthew Miller napsal(a):
> On Wed, Feb 05, 2020 at 09:04:31AM +0000, Peter Robinson wrote:
>> We can achieve that easily, it's the same process we use for the
>> aarch64/iot/cloud images. I suspect it would need a FESCo exception
>> for the change but from an infra PoV it works now.
> For what it's worth, I support this if it's what's best for your use
case.
> That's very in line with the Fedora Project mission.
>

a special Fedora spin

[Mohan Boddu]

On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 3:53 PM Vojtěch Polášek <krecoun(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  Hello all,
>
>  I was discussing my plan at #fedora-respins at Freenode and we came upon
>  interesting problem.
>
>  Just fyi, the project is here:
>
>  https://github.com/vojtapolasek/Fegora
>
>  We are currently installing some software by cloning the git repo during
>  image creation and installing it  into the system, no package manager
>  involved.
>
>  I know it is bad. But I am afraid it won't be easy to get this directly
>  into fedora.
>
>  Can we use Copr repos in spins? And in general,    are somewhere 
This is not possible as one of the requirements is the packages should
be packaged in Fedora.

>  guidelines about what  cannot be in spin? 
I dont think there are any guidelines like this, but anything that can
be packaged in Fedora can be used for image creation and anything that
cant wont be available for image creation.

>
> Thank you,
>
> Vojta
>
> Dne 10. 02. 20 v 21:29 Matthew Miller napsal(a):
> > On Wed, Feb 05, 2020 at 09:04:31AM +0000, Peter Robinson wrote:
> >> We can achieve that easily, it's the same process we use for the
> >> aarch64/iot/cloud images. I suspect it would need a FESCo exception
> >> for the change but from an infra PoV it works now.
> > For what it's worth, I support this if it's what's best for your use
case.
> > That's very in line with the Fedora Project mission.
> >
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe send an email to rel-eng-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> Fedora Code of Conduct:
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> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
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