2015-11-17 21:54 GMT+01:00 Stephen Gallagher <sgallagh(a)redhat.com>:
Similar to my thread about the @server-hardware-support group, the
@container-management group also takes up a good chunk of space (38MB
above the minimal install) in the default Server install, as well as
including an additional available-by-default service.
Originally, we included Docker for its popularity and because Cockpit
and rolekit each had some support for operating with it. In F23 and
onwards, rolekit is capable of automatically-installing docker if it
is required to support a role, so having it installed by default is no
longer critical from that perspective.
This leaves Cockpit: one of Cockpit's more popular features is the
ability to manage Docker images and containers from the UI.
As a side-note, I think this is a policy we should consider
throughout Server: try to do lazy package installation whenever
So I am vaguely worried about this trend. Should image size really the #1
Functionality added by default, and especially as mandatory, on top of
minimal install (whatever minimal install is this year), is not just useful
the way a new feature is useful in an appliance; it is also (and IMO
primarily) useful as making the “platform” more valuable because
application writers can depend on the feature being always available, and
users can expect the applications to be more easily deployed.
Docker is a good example: its users are not rolekit and Cockpit, its users
are all the Dockerized applications out there; and* if* Docker succeeds as
an application delivery mechanism, its value to all the other applications
will be much larger than the value of making rolekit and Cockpit a bit
easier to deploy.
You’re right, we can reasonably modify Cockpit or other applications we
package, for not having Docker available; but we may not be able to modify
all the other applications out there. Or perhaps we can officially decide
e.g. that the way to deploy Docker containers is to run something like
(atomic install), and have (atomic install) deal with automatically
Now, perhaps Docker should not be a part of the Fedora Server platform, not
yet, or not ever. I don’t know, and I could easily accept an argument that
it should not be there. It just worries me that the conversation is in
terms of feature vs. storage, without talking about the platform at all.