2015-11-17 21:54 GMT+01:00 Stephen Gallagher <sgallagh@redhat.com>:
Similar to my thread about the @server-hardware-support group, the
@container-management group also takes up a good chunk of space (38MB
above the minimal install) in the default Server install, as well as
including an additional available-by-default service.

Originally, we included Docker for its popularity and because Cockpit
and rolekit each had some support for operating with it. In F23 and
onwards, rolekit is capable of automatically-installing docker if it
is required to support a role, so having it installed by default is no
longer critical from that perspective.

This leaves Cockpit: one of Cockpit's more popular features is the
ability to manage Docker images and containers from the UI.

As a side-note, I think this is a policy we should consider following
throughout Server: try to do lazy package installation whenever

So I am vaguely worried about this trend. Should image size really the #1 priority?

Functionality added by default, and especially as mandatory, on top of minimal install (whatever minimal install is this year), is not just useful the way a new feature is useful in an appliance; it is also (and IMO primarily) useful as making the “platform” more valuable because application writers can depend on the feature being always available, and users can expect the applications to be more easily deployed.

Docker is a good example: its users are not rolekit and Cockpit, its users are all the Dockerized applications out there; and if Docker succeeds as an application delivery mechanism, its value to all the other applications will be much larger than the value of making rolekit and Cockpit a bit easier to deploy.

You’re right, we can reasonably modify Cockpit or other applications we package, for not having Docker available; but we may not be able to modify all the other applications out there. Or perhaps we can officially decide e.g. that the way to deploy Docker containers is to run something like (atomic install), and have (atomic install) deal with automatically installing Docker.

Now, perhaps Docker should not be a part of the Fedora Server platform, not yet, or not ever. I don’t know, and I could easily accept an argument that it should not be there. It just worries me that the conversation is in terms of feature vs. storage, without talking about the platform at all.