Fedora Server Doc Page first draft proposal

[Peter Boy]

During our IRC meeting last Wednesday we had agreed that I would make a first draft
proposal for contents of a possible Fedora Server box on the docs landing page (as to the
already existing ones on IoT, CoreOS etc).

It is now available at https://pboy.fedorapeople.org/FedoraServerDocpageProposal_v1-0.odt


Please, comment here on the mailing list (if possible use the item numbers as reference)
or modify the text directly and send it to me (for the time being, improvement is in
progress). 


Best
Peter

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 05:55:03PM +0100, Peter Boy wrote:
>  During our IRC meeting last Wednesday we had agreed that I would make
> a first draft proposal for contents of a possible Fedora Server box on the docs landing
> page (as to the already existing ones on IoT, CoreOS etc).
>  
>  It is now available at https://pboy.fedorapeople.org/FedoraServerDocpageProposal_v1-0.odt
>
>  
>  Please, comment here on the mailing list (if possible use the item numbers as reference)
> or modify the text directly and send it to me (for the time being, improvement is in
> progress).  
This looks great!

I think wherever we can we should share docs to the main documentation
project, but I think server specific things might be fine in their own
section. 

One small thing that might be good to add is 'differences between the
server edition and other fedora editions'. ie, we default to xfs instead
of btrfs and we have a different default partitioning setup, etc. 

kevin

[Chris Murphy]

On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 5:05 PM Kevin Fenzi <kevin(a)scrye.com&gt; wrote:
>  On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 05:55:03PM +0100, Peter Boy wrote:
>  > During our IRC meeting last Wednesday we had agreed that I would make a first draft
> proposal for contents of a possible Fedora Server box on the docs landing page (as to the
> already existing ones on IoT, CoreOS etc).
>  >
>  > It is now available at
> https://pboy.fedorapeople.org/FedoraServerDocpageProposal_v1-0.odt
>  >
>  > Please, comment here on the mailing list (if possible use the item numbers as
> reference) or modify the text directly and send it to me (for the time being, improvement
> is in progress).
>
>  This looks great!
>
>  I think wherever we can we should share docs to the main documentation
>  project, but I think server specific things might be fine in their own
>  section.
>
>  One small thing that might be good to add is 'differences between the
>  server edition and other fedora editions'. ie, we default to xfs instead
>  of btrfs and we have a different default partitioning setup, etc. 
Perhaps the Server WG might consider postponing this portion, pending
a new evaluation?

* All the arguments in favor of Btrfs by default for Workstation apply
even more strongly for Server, i.e. they're even more compelling.

* That CentOS Stream will track just ahead of RHEL gives RHEL the
flexibility to continue to be prepared to do whatever RHEL wants to
do, and permits Fedora to continue to lead, be first, and seek
relevant features on their own merits.

* The existing layout was decided at a time when containers used
dm-thin directly (outside of LVM) hence the reservation of space "to
be determined" by the user following an installation. This might be
due for a refresh anyway.

* Both the overlayfs (on XFS or Btrfs) and Btrfs (leveraging btrfs
snapshots) workflows are more common than dm-thin or VFS container
workflows.

* There are other relevant possibilities: LVM thin provisioning, and Stratis.


-- 
Chris Murphy

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 08:43:53PM -0700, Chris Murphy wrote:
>  On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 5:05 PM Kevin Fenzi <kevin(a)scrye.com&gt;
> wrote:
>  >
>  > On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 05:55:03PM +0100, Peter Boy wrote:
>  > > During our IRC meeting last Wednesday we had agreed that I would make a first
> draft proposal for contents of a possible Fedora Server box on the docs landing page (as
> to the already existing ones on IoT, CoreOS etc).
>  > >
>  > > It is now available at
> https://pboy.fedorapeople.org/FedoraServerDocpageProposal_v1-0.odt
>  > >
>  > > Please, comment here on the mailing list (if possible use the item numbers as
> reference) or modify the text directly and send it to me (for the time being, improvement
> is in progress).
>  >
>  > This looks great!
>  >
>  > I think wherever we can we should share docs to the main documentation
>  > project, but I think server specific things might be fine in their own
>  > section.
>  >
>  > One small thing that might be good to add is 'differences between the
>  > server edition and other fedora editions'. ie, we default to xfs instead
>  > of btrfs and we have a different default partitioning setup, etc.
>  
>  Perhaps the Server WG might consider postponing this portion, pending
>  a new evaluation? 
Well, I was just suggesting we describe the current state. 

I don't mind revisiting it, but I think it's probibly not going to
change before f34 and won't be retroactively changing for f32/f33. ;) 

kevin

[Eduard Lucena]

Hello guys,

Sorry for how long it took to do, but the document is here:

https://hackmd.io/@x3mboy/By5OkH71O

We should be able to separate the update proposal to the current one,
instead of having a table with both documents paired.

Br,
-- 
Eduard Lucena
Móvil: [phone]
GNU/Linux User #589060
Ubuntu User #8749
Fedora Marketing Representative

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 03:59:06PM -0300, Eduard Lucena wrote:
>  Hello guys,
>  
>  Sorry for how long it took to do, but the document is here:
>  
>  https://hackmd.io/@x3mboy/By5OkH71O
>  
>  We should be able to separate the update proposal to the current one,
>  instead of having a table with both documents paired. 
Thanks for doing that, I started to make some comments, but I wonder if
it's better to perhaps take a section at a time and discuss in meeting
or on the list? so we can reach consensus about a section and then work
on the wording?

kevin

[Eduard Lucena]

Hi,

Thanks for doing that, I started to make some comments, but I wonder if
>  it's better to perhaps take a section at a time and discuss in
> meeting
>  or on the list? so we can reach consensus about a section and then work
>  on the wording?
>  
I think the option of discussing section by section is better. wdyt about
replicating the "new" document at the bottom of the comparison?

Br,
-- 
Eduard Lucena
Móvil: [phone]
GNU/Linux User #589060
Ubuntu User #8749
Fedora Marketing Representative

[Peter Boy]

>  Am 26.01.2021 um 01:04 schrieb Kevin Fenzi <kevin(a)scrye.com&gt;:
>  
>  On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 05:55:03PM +0100, Peter Boy wrote:
> > ...
> > Please, comment here on the mailing list (if possible use the item numbers as
> reference) or modify the text directly and send it to me (for the time being, improvement
> is in progress). 
>  
>  This looks great!
>  
>  I think wherever we can we should share docs to the main documentation
>  project, but I think server specific things might be fine in their own
>  section. 
 I agree. If we decide to do this, we must first draw up a rough plan, and then make an
effort to talk to the authors of the Installation and System Administration Guide about
it. In any case, I am not familiar enough with these procedures. We need someone who is
willing to put some time into it.

In a previous post I made a proposal for such a  rough plan

>  One small thing that might be good to add is 'differences between
> the
>  server edition and other fedora editions'. ie, we default to xfs instead
>  of btrfs and we have a different default partitioning setup, etc.  
I agree. We should preface this with a few conceptual differences. 
Multi purpose, widely adoptable to customers specific needs as opposed to CoreOS specific
as a container host or IoT home automation.

Stable persistent public information and services unlike Workstation as personal and
adaptable to personal work routines. 

Control of hardware as well, unlike Cloud Base Images. 

Control over the entire system hardware and software, including the network, in contrast
to cloud services such as GPC, Amazon, etc.

This is the basis for differences such as BTRFS, partitioning, etc. 


If we decide, to give the „Server Box“ a go we have to consider how to proceed. 

One option is to create on a subpage of our wiki a kind of prototype (which would be easy
to do) or directly try to establish the basic structure for a „box“ in
docs.fedoraproject.org.