Josh Boyer wrote:
Here's the deal. Spins have a process that are treated exactly like
Features. Just because it's not under the purview of FESCo doesn't
mean that it's not still viable.
It would be still viable if the process is outlined. The process has to
be in discussed and in place before FESCo delegates it to somebody else.
After Fedora 8, FESCo essentially said, we don't want to deal with this
and it has been a mass confusion ever since.
> For Fedora 10, I went to rel-eng just so that some decisions can
So you are allowed to make arbitrary decisions in a closed group, but
those that did the exact same thing at FUDCon are somehow evil? Wtf.
A clearly outlined process and someone or a team needs to be accountable
for decisions. In the absence of it and confusion over the process, I
had to deal with somehow getting the spins I owned published (there
weren't enough spin sig meetings and I can't be sitting on much if any
because of different timezones) and asked for help in #fedora-devel and
was told that rel-eng would approve spins and I participate in the
meeting and got it approved. None of this was arbitrary or closed. I
don't see how it compares at all to making decisions in FUDCon and
claiming everyone was there.
That one came from me. Having spins fail to compose during the week
that rel-eng is trying to get a milestone (Alpha, Beta, Preview) out the
door is simply an easy way to drop the Spin entirely.
It's not more cumbersome. It's putting the responsibility for the spin
into the hands of the person that cares about it the most, which is the
spin owner. So the week before a milestone release is going to be busy
for the SIG and the owners, but that is part of being a Spin owner.
I don't know what you want from a report and full fledged testing and
reporting every two weeks is just not feasible for multiple spins for me
as a spin owner. If you want just to know if it composes or not or if
it is the right size and things like that, automated composes already
give that information. Don't ask me to vote on this incomplete proposal.
Please hash out the details in this list first and then get to the
voting part. Premature voting would leave us with just as much confusion
Look, creating an official Spin is not as simple as "here is my
file, go build this please."
No, it is not. I have to spend a lot of time, getting that kickstart
file in place first. It isn't a simple matter of running some composes
and calling it a day. There is a heck lot of finicky details to take
care of. Rawhide breaks my compose in subtle ways. You are in rel-eng.
You know the amount of work it takes to get alpha,beta and general
releases out. Are you really asking me to do that work every two weeks
for multiple spins? You can't be serious. This feels more like a
punishment that I have to suffer because other spins broke.
The bar has been raised, and this is not a bad thing.
Yes, as long as you dont arbitrarily the raise the amount of work
someone has to do without any justification and not helping them in the
process. I was once getting blamed for a Xfce spin compose that failed
because Fedora infrastructure was running a updated (slightly broken)
version of livecd-tools than the GA version. How about giving me access,
so that I can do composes in the same environment that you do? Help me
with this instead of just adding more overhead.