On Sun, 10 Nov 2013 00:00:42 +0100
Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert(a)gmail.com> wrote:
with all due respect, but I think your attitude it fundamentally
You are the Fedora release manager. It's your job to communicate
deadlines, to reach out to the people affected and nag them. You are
getting paid to do this, but you expect volunteers to ask you? Seems
you are living in an upside-down world.
Perhaps you are thinking of the Fedora Program manager here?
We had the same situation with F19 and someone (I don't remember
Matthew? Adam? Peter?) put it in a nutshell: "Dennis, you screwed it
up. Stop arguing." AFAIR you promised you would do better, but I
don't see any change.
I'm not sure what this is refering to?
Also, I am not Dennis (obviously), but I've been trying to drive some
of this process, so feel free to yell at me and also I'll try and
answer your concerns.
Please be so kind as to tell me:
1. Did you send out reminders to the mailing lists? I don't see
anything on this list.
We could send reminders I guess. Just "please test your spin"?
Shouldn't that all be implied?
I did send a email to test/devel/this list:
[Fedora-spins] IMPORTANT, please read: Spins QA signoff for milestones
2. Did you send out reminders to the spin owners directly?
Do you have a up to date list of them? I looked a few months ago and on
some of them I couldn't figure it out at all. I was hoping perhaps
strangely that there would be a list all of them would be on... like
3. What test cases do you think needs to be run on spins you
to remove? All are based on Desktop spins which are already
tested. The only thing worth testing is
Testcase_desktop_menus, but it is due for final, not beta. QA has no
other testcases or criteria the spins need to meet.
General functionality. That it boots, that the menus and such work.
Basically avoiding things like:
- f19 security spin shipping with all broken menus.
- fN design suite where network didn't work.
- over indented sizes basically all the time.
Brown paper bag issues you can find using the image for a few minutes.
Is that too much to ask for? one person in the world testing just one
TC or RC compose of the thing?
4. Do we actually need to run test cases for non-desktop spins?
They are not listed in the wiki, neither in the template nor
on any of the test results pages.
Some of the spins have actually started writing their own, which is
great, but really I just wanted a "does this thing have any glaring
errors that make it not work at all" test..
I do understand that as the release engineer, you don't want to
spins that don't work. I agree we need to get rid of unmaintained and
untested spins. But none of the spins you want to remove seem
unmaintained for me. Frankly speaking it looks to me like you are
trying to reduce your workload by all means necessary.
I can't speak for dennis, but he has said many times this isn't about
his work, he can produce all the spins all the time.
> Security and Games
> should have been removed from Alpha since there is no sign they were
> tested then.
Then we would need to remove LXDE, too.
No, there was someone who tested it and signed off on it.
> When we decide on a gold release that means we have tested
> it and are sure it is good. you need to test before then.
We are not gold yet, are we?
Yes. At thursdays go/no-go meeting we are 'go' for f20beta. It's setup
and syncing to mirrors now.
I apologize I am very direct in this mail. With your attitude, you
driving volunteers away from Fedora. I know some who are close to
resign and I cannot accept this.
Well, I'm personally open to ideas. I'm a bit frustrated too, because I
tried really hard this cycle to post to devel and test and here about
the proposed requirements. I got some very few replies. I don't know
how better to communicate the changes and get people to agree to them.
Then we always get "Oh no, we didn't know, try it again next cycle".
Well, I did. I wanted to do this in f19, but backed off when people
said it wasn't communicated. I posted a number of times at the early
part of the cycle, I got FESCo to ack the changes.
How can we improve the process? How on earth can I get spin maintainers
to agree to changes! How can we stop shipping things 0 people test?