On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 7:50 AM, Rahul Sundaram metherid@gmail.com wrote:
On 05/27/2010 12:15 PM, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 07:37:48 +0100, Peter Robinson pbrobinson@gmail.com wrote:
WooHoo... nearly 2 days after the release and there's still no signs of the Moblin spin. I'm not going to yell and scream like some would about their spin but it would be nice to see some kind of update as to why its still missing? I don't see that request as being unreasonable after all I feel I put as much work into my spin and it can't help to feel to me a little unfair and disappointed. If it was some other spin all hell would have broken lose.
I think that would depend on which spin. This isn't the first time something bad has happened with a spin. I don't remember hell breaking loose in the past.
Certainly it is unfortunate and disappointing that it happened.
I have long since advocated that spin owners be granted access in Fedora infrastructure to compose their own spins and release engineering not take this role. The current method is simply not scaling well and we have seen enough proof of that by now.
I'm not sure the pros and cons to the above, or whether there's something as basic as access to signing keys that might restrict that. I'm quite happy for the infra team to deal with it, generally they've done a sterling job and I hope to see Moblin spin shortly, pity its well behind the watershed and the MeeGo 1 release will no doubt dampen down the effect but that is life.
What I would like is a much better defined spin process. I've been involved in the spin process for 2 releases now, managed to miss the boat with F-12 because there was no where on the spin process and no prior announcements to cut off dates. I actually made it in with 2 spins this process (maintain moblin, co-maintain sugar on a stick) but it was certainly not without issues.
Peter
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 08:44:50AM +0100, Peter Robinson wrote:
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 7:50 AM, Rahul Sundaram metherid@gmail.com wrote:
On 05/27/2010 12:15 PM, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 07:37:48 +0100, Peter Robinson pbrobinson@gmail.com wrote:
WooHoo... nearly 2 days after the release and there's still no signs of the Moblin spin. I'm not going to yell and scream like some would about their spin but it would be nice to see some kind of update as to why its still missing? I don't see that request as being unreasonable after all I feel I put as much work into my spin and it can't help to feel to me a little unfair and disappointed. If it was some other spin all hell would have broken lose.
I think that would depend on which spin. This isn't the first time something bad has happened with a spin. I don't remember hell breaking loose in the past.
Certainly it is unfortunate and disappointing that it happened.
I have long since advocated that spin owners be granted access in Fedora infrastructure to compose their own spins and release engineering not take this role. The current method is simply not scaling well and we have seen enough proof of that by now.
I'm not sure the pros and cons to the above, or whether there's something as basic as access to signing keys that might restrict that. I'm quite happy for the infra team to deal with it, generally they've done a sterling job and I hope to see Moblin spin shortly, pity its well behind the watershed and the MeeGo 1 release will no doubt dampen down the effect but that is life.
What I would like is a much better defined spin process. I've been involved in the spin process for 2 releases now, managed to miss the boat with F-12 because there was no where on the spin process and no prior announcements to cut off dates. I actually made it in with 2 spins this process (maintain moblin, co-maintain sugar on a stick) but it was certainly not without issues.
Peter,
I agree that the spin process and ownership is in an unclear state. I asked two questions in my original message that are unanswered, and I think Spins SIG members must answer to improve the situation:
(1) Who is responsible for gathering schedule and report the changes needed -- actionable tasks, who does them, and the start and end dates?
(2) What are the unclear areas of the process, and what are the suggestions for fixing them? (Note I already cleared up one area, but surely there are others as Peter notes.)
A "fire and forget" approach once Spins are accepted doesn't encourage the health and smooth operation of a SIG. It's important for all the SIG members to help their fellows and the group by participating in a review of the process and making it easier to follow.
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:04 PM, Paul W. Frields stickster@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 08:44:50AM +0100, Peter Robinson wrote:
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 7:50 AM, Rahul Sundaram metherid@gmail.com wrote:
On 05/27/2010 12:15 PM, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 07:37:48 +0100, Peter Robinson pbrobinson@gmail.com wrote:
WooHoo... nearly 2 days after the release and there's still no signs of the Moblin spin. I'm not going to yell and scream like some would about their spin but it would be nice to see some kind of update as to why its still missing? I don't see that request as being unreasonable after all I feel I put as much work into my spin and it can't help to feel to me a little unfair and disappointed. If it was some other spin all hell would have broken lose.
I think that would depend on which spin. This isn't the first time something bad has happened with a spin. I don't remember hell breaking loose in the past.
Certainly it is unfortunate and disappointing that it happened.
I have long since advocated that spin owners be granted access in Fedora infrastructure to compose their own spins and release engineering not take this role. The current method is simply not scaling well and we have seen enough proof of that by now.
I'm not sure the pros and cons to the above, or whether there's something as basic as access to signing keys that might restrict that. I'm quite happy for the infra team to deal with it, generally they've done a sterling job and I hope to see Moblin spin shortly, pity its well behind the watershed and the MeeGo 1 release will no doubt dampen down the effect but that is life.
What I would like is a much better defined spin process. I've been involved in the spin process for 2 releases now, managed to miss the boat with F-12 because there was no where on the spin process and no prior announcements to cut off dates. I actually made it in with 2 spins this process (maintain moblin, co-maintain sugar on a stick) but it was certainly not without issues.
Peter,
I agree that the spin process and ownership is in an unclear state. I asked two questions in my original message that are unanswered, and I think Spins SIG members must answer to improve the situation:
(1) Who is responsible for gathering schedule and report the changes needed -- actionable tasks, who does them, and the start and end dates?
(2) What are the unclear areas of the process, and what are the suggestions for fixing them? (Note I already cleared up one area, but surely there are others as Peter notes.)
A "fire and forget" approach once Spins are accepted doesn't encourage the health and smooth operation of a SIG. It's important for all the SIG members to help their fellows and the group by participating in a review of the process and making it easier to follow.
Thank you Paul appreciated. What is the status of actually getting the Moblin spin up on s.fp.o? Its been 2 days and its still not there. Fixing of the process is needed for F-14 but at the moment the 100s of hours of work I have done for F-13 is still not available and I'm not sure why.
Peter
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 02:10:25PM +0100, Peter Robinson wrote:
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:04 PM, Paul W. Frields stickster@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 08:44:50AM +0100, Peter Robinson wrote:
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 7:50 AM, Rahul Sundaram metherid@gmail.com wrote:
On 05/27/2010 12:15 PM, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 07:37:48 +0100, Peter Robinson pbrobinson@gmail.com wrote:
WooHoo... nearly 2 days after the release and there's still no signs of the Moblin spin. I'm not going to yell and scream like some would about their spin but it would be nice to see some kind of update as to why its still missing? I don't see that request as being unreasonable after all I feel I put as much work into my spin and it can't help to feel to me a little unfair and disappointed. If it was some other spin all hell would have broken lose.
I think that would depend on which spin. This isn't the first time something bad has happened with a spin. I don't remember hell breaking loose in the past.
Certainly it is unfortunate and disappointing that it happened.
I have long since advocated that spin owners be granted access in Fedora infrastructure to compose their own spins and release engineering not take this role. The current method is simply not scaling well and we have seen enough proof of that by now.
I'm not sure the pros and cons to the above, or whether there's something as basic as access to signing keys that might restrict that. I'm quite happy for the infra team to deal with it, generally they've done a sterling job and I hope to see Moblin spin shortly, pity its well behind the watershed and the MeeGo 1 release will no doubt dampen down the effect but that is life.
What I would like is a much better defined spin process. I've been involved in the spin process for 2 releases now, managed to miss the boat with F-12 because there was no where on the spin process and no prior announcements to cut off dates. I actually made it in with 2 spins this process (maintain moblin, co-maintain sugar on a stick) but it was certainly not without issues.
Peter,
I agree that the spin process and ownership is in an unclear state. I asked two questions in my original message that are unanswered, and I think Spins SIG members must answer to improve the situation:
(1) Who is responsible for gathering schedule and report the changes needed -- actionable tasks, who does them, and the start and end dates?
(2) What are the unclear areas of the process, and what are the suggestions for fixing them? (Note I already cleared up one area, but surely there are others as Peter notes.)
A "fire and forget" approach once Spins are accepted doesn't encourage the health and smooth operation of a SIG. It's important for all the SIG members to help their fellows and the group by participating in a review of the process and making it easier to follow.
Thank you Paul appreciated. What is the status of actually getting the Moblin spin up on s.fp.o? Its been 2 days and its still not there. Fixing of the process is needed for F-14 but at the moment the 100s of hours of work I have done for F-13 is still not available and I'm not sure why.
Let's check with Jesse when he's around -- it's still early in his timezone and he may not be at the keyboard yet. He said yesterday he was working on spinning the ISOs.
Originally I was intending this thread to be a general one where we could collaborate on finding improvements to the spins process page and a schedule that would help Spins SIG members manage that process. At the same time, I agree we want to make the Moblin spin available, but I'm worried we're obscuring this particular thread and once we fix the immediate problem, it might die and we won't solve the more general ones.
Should I just start a separate thread to make that clearer?
On Thu, 2010-05-27 at 10:51 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote:
Let's check with Jesse when he's around -- it's still early in his timezone and he may not be at the keyboard yet. He said yesterday he was working on spinning the ISOs.
The isos are spun, and I'm staging them to torrent and to the mirror. They should be live later today.
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 7:03 PM, Jesse Keating jkeating@redhat.com wrote:
On Thu, 2010-05-27 at 10:51 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote:
Let's check with Jesse when he's around -- it's still early in his timezone and he may not be at the keyboard yet. He said yesterday he was working on spinning the ISOs.
The isos are spun, and I'm staging them to torrent and to the mirror. They should be live later today.
Thanks Jesse, at that point does the web site go live?
Regards, Peter
On Thu, 2010-05-27 at 23:01 +0100, Peter Robinson wrote:
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 7:03 PM, Jesse Keating jkeating@redhat.com wrote:
On Thu, 2010-05-27 at 10:51 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote:
Let's check with Jesse when he's around -- it's still early in his timezone and he may not be at the keyboard yet. He said yesterday he was working on spinning the ISOs.
The isos are spun, and I'm staging them to torrent and to the mirror. They should be live later today.
Thanks Jesse, at that point does the web site go live?
Regards, Peter _______________________________________________ spins mailing list spins@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/spins
That's a good question. I suspect you'll have to work with the websites team to make sure there is a moblin page at spins.fedoraproject.org. I can just make it show up on the spins mirror and on the torrent server.
On 05/28/2010 07:10 AM, Jesse Keating wrote:
That's a good question. I suspect you'll have to work with the websites team to make sure there is a moblin page at spins.fedoraproject.org. I can just make it show up on the spins mirror and on the torrent server.
There is one already at
http://spins.fedoraproject.org/moblin/#downloads
You just need to send a note to webmaster AT fedoraproject.org when you have finish uploading the image and setting up the torrent
Rahul
On Thu, 2010-05-27 at 23:01 +0100, Peter Robinson wrote:
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 7:03 PM, Jesse Keating jkeating@redhat.com wrote:
On Thu, 2010-05-27 at 10:51 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote:
Let's check with Jesse when he's around -- it's still early in his timezone and he may not be at the keyboard yet. He said yesterday he was working on spinning the ISOs.
The isos are spun, and I'm staging them to torrent and to the mirror. They should be live later today.
Thanks Jesse, at that point does the web site go live?
Ok, the torrent is live, and the isos are on the master spins mirror. Websites, can you update the spins.fp.o page to list Moblin now?
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 08:44:50 +0100, Peter Robinson pbrobinson@gmail.com wrote:
What I would like is a much better defined spin process. I've been involved in the spin process for 2 releases now, managed to miss the boat with F-12 because there was no where on the spin process and no prior announcements to cut off dates. I actually made it in with 2 spins this process (maintain moblin, co-maintain sugar on a stick) but it was certainly not without issues.
Peter, are you interested in leading the Spins SIG? There are a few of us that don't want to lead the team but are willing to help. In the past we have volunteered to do needed tasks and I think you could expect us to continue doing so going forward.
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Bruno Wolff III bruno@wolff.to wrote:
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 08:44:50 +0100, Peter Robinson pbrobinson@gmail.com wrote:
What I would like is a much better defined spin process. I've been involved in the spin process for 2 releases now, managed to miss the boat with F-12 because there was no where on the spin process and no prior announcements to cut off dates. I actually made it in with 2 spins this process (maintain moblin, co-maintain sugar on a stick) but it was certainly not without issues.
Peter, are you interested in leading the Spins SIG? There are a few of us that don't want to lead the team but are willing to help. In the past we have volunteered to do needed tasks and I think you could expect us to continue doing so going forward.
Its something I would consider but its something that I don't believe I will have the time to dedicate to properly in the next release cycle. I've just moved to a more senior core infrastructure role in my current company and have a massive schedule over the next 6 months or so. Depending on how that all settles out and if no one is willing to step up to the plate I may re-consider it for the F-15 release cycle. I might also have more of a clue about the process by then :-P
Peter
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Bruno Wolff III -
Jesse Keating -
Paul W. Frields -
Peter Robinson -
Rahul Sundaram