Hi Adrian,
we've been discussing the Fedora Ro Spin at today's Spins SIG meeting and some questions arose on whether this is intended to just live in the GIT repository or you're aiming at doing a full spin.
Please reply to the Spins SIG's mailing list which I'm cc'ing here for further discussion.
Thanks, --Sebastian
Hi,
This spin is intended to be a full iso and not just a kickstart because the .ks file would not interest our target users. Feedback from within the community helps us to understand that the target user is a non-tehnical person with more or less English knowledge, so for them is rather hard to build there own spin based on the git file, thus making it harder for us to support there issues. I know that the full spin is harder to be implemented since it's the first localization-only, but like I said in the description on the wiki this official spin will help us to showcase out of the box Fedora support in Romanian.
Best regards,
Adrin Joian
On 01/26/2010 12:28 AM, Sebastian Dziallas wrote:
Hi Adrian,
we've been discussing the Fedora Ro Spin at today's Spins SIG meeting and some questions arose on whether this is intended to just live in the GIT repository or you're aiming at doing a full spin.
Please reply to the Spins SIG's mailing list which I'm cc'ing here for further discussion.
Thanks, --Sebastian
On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 21:40:42 +0200 Adrian adrian.joian@fedoraproject.ro wrote:
Hi,
This spin is intended to be a full iso and not just a kickstart because the .ks file would not interest our target users. Feedback from within the community helps us to understand that the target user is a non-tehnical person with more or less English knowledge, so for them is rather hard to build there own spin based on the git file, thus making it harder for us to support there issues. I know that the full spin is harder to be implemented since it's the first localization-only, but like I said in the description on the wiki this official spin will help us to showcase out of the box Fedora support in Romanian.
Hey Adrin.
What advantages does this spin provide over just choosing the RO locale on the login screen of the regular desktop spin?
Is there some way we could improve the desktop spin to meet your needs?
Best regards,
Adrin Joian
kevin
On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 21:40:42 +0200, Adrian adrian.joian@fedoraproject.ro wrote:
Hi,
This spin is intended to be a full iso and not just a kickstart because the .ks file would not interest our target users. Feedback from within the community helps us to understand that the target user is a non-tehnical person with more or less English knowledge, so for them is rather hard to build there own spin based on the git file, thus making it harder for us to support there issues. I know that the full spin is harder to be implemented since it's the first localization-only, but like I said in the description on the wiki this official spin will help us to showcase out of the box Fedora support in Romanian.
It's actually not the first localized spin, but so far we've only allowed BrOffice.org as a part of the release.
Other localized spins reside in the spin-kickstarts git repo, and are provided through the l10n-kickstarts package.
-- Jeroen
Hi,
The thing is that our users would feel in some way special when Fedora will care sufficiently that it will build a dedicated spin for them. Ergo they will be more inclined to try out the distro.
Best regards, Adrian
On 01/27/2010 04:51 PM, Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote:
On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 21:40:42 +0200, Adrianadrian.joian@fedoraproject.ro wrote:
Hi,
This spin is intended to be a full iso and not just a kickstart because the .ks file would not interest our target users. Feedback from within the community helps us to understand that the target user is a non-tehnical person with more or less English knowledge, so for them is rather hard to build there own spin based on the git file, thus making it harder for us to support there issues. I know that the full spin is harder to be implemented since it's the first localization-only, but like I said in the description on the wiki this official spin will help us to showcase out of the box Fedora support in Romanian.
It's actually not the first localized spin, but so far we've only allowed BrOffice.org as a part of the release.
Other localized spins reside in the spin-kickstarts git repo, and are provided through the l10n-kickstarts package.
-- Jeroen _______________________________________________ spins mailing list spins@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/spins
On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 17:01:01 +0200, Adrian adrian.joian@fedoraproject.ro wrote:
Hi,
The thing is that our users would feel in some way special when Fedora will care sufficiently that it will build a dedicated spin for them. Ergo they will be more inclined to try out the distro.
I think this part of the deal is more appropriately reviewed and valued by the Fedora Project board, as the Spins SIG is here to technically verify the Spin's kickstart.
If you want inclusion of this Spin in the release, the Fedora Board would have to make a decision about whether or not to allow localized spins to be part of the release (since it requires some resources, QA, etc).
What the Spins SIG can do is;
1) technically approve the spin (for inclusion in the spin-kickstarts git repository and the l10n-kickstarts package) 2) Ask the board to review this Spin in terms of trademark approval (this does not really apply to localized spins) and inclusion in the release (for which they'll probably look at various other parties such as Release Engineering, Quality Assurance and Fedora Infrastructure).
Kind regards,
Jeroen van Meeuwen
Am Mittwoch, den 27.01.2010, 17:01 +0200 schrieb Adrian:
Hi,
The thing is that our users would feel in some way special when Fedora will care sufficiently that it will build a dedicated spin for them.
Understood. But I think Kevin's question still stands: What is the benefit compared to the other spins and choosing the RO locale there?
If there is anything that we can improve, we should improve it in all spins and not just a localized one that will target a limited user base.
Regards, Christoph
On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 04:31:04PM +0100, Christoph Wickert wrote:
Am Mittwoch, den 27.01.2010, 17:01 +0200 schrieb Adrian:
Hi,
The thing is that our users would feel in some way special when Fedora will care sufficiently that it will build a dedicated spin for them.
Understood. But I think Kevin's question still stands: What is the benefit compared to the other spins and choosing the RO locale there?
If there is anything that we can improve, we should improve it in all spins and not just a localized one that will target a limited user base.
I think Christoph is correct. I don't think there's much chance of the Fedora Project Board approving a localized spin for the reasons you guys have already stated. The BrOffice.org spin was created to allow distribution of Fedora while avoiding a specific trademark problem in that region.
Because the Live spins tend to provide all the l10n bits, there's not as much value in a spin that just happens to default to some other language. I think it would be more valuable to look at how we might better provide, and show the user at boot time how to get, a properly localized environment no matter where they live.
One other minor point -- if we're hearing any sort of consistent issues with producing a spin from a kickstart, such as being too hard, then that process probably needs to be better documented.
Hi,
This been said I conclude that the spin can only live in git or l10n, so I'll end the pursuit for the full live image. But I'll continue the documentation task on how to build a live localized iso. The documentation will be available on our community site in an easy to read/implement format for which we'll offer support.
Thank you for your time.
Best regards, Adrian
On 01/27/2010 06:34 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote:
On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 04:31:04PM +0100, Christoph Wickert wrote:
Am Mittwoch, den 27.01.2010, 17:01 +0200 schrieb Adrian:
Hi,
The thing is that our users would feel in some way special when Fedora will care sufficiently that it will build a dedicated spin for them.
Understood. But I think Kevin's question still stands: What is the benefit compared to the other spins and choosing the RO locale there?
If there is anything that we can improve, we should improve it in all spins and not just a localized one that will target a limited user base.
I think Christoph is correct. I don't think there's much chance of the Fedora Project Board approving a localized spin for the reasons you guys have already stated. The BrOffice.org spin was created to allow distribution of Fedora while avoiding a specific trademark problem in that region.
Because the Live spins tend to provide all the l10n bits, there's not as much value in a spin that just happens to default to some other language. I think it would be more valuable to look at how we might better provide, and show the user at boot time how to get, a properly localized environment no matter where they live.
One other minor point -- if we're hearing any sort of consistent issues with producing a spin from a kickstart, such as being too hard, then that process probably needs to be better documented.
On 01/28/2010 09:45 AM, Adrian wrote:
Hi,
This been said I conclude that the spin can only live in git or l10n, so I'll end the pursuit for the full live image. But I'll continue the documentation task on how to build a live localized iso. The documentation will be available on our community site in an easy to read/implement format for which we'll offer support.
Adrian, Paul,
it would be beneficial to go through the Trademark approval stage.
That said, it could enable Adrian to build and test the spin once, press a couple of hundred, and not having to call his spin a Re-Mix.
That said, since localized spins normally only toggle the locale, I'm thinking that Trademark approval should not be too difficult and that localized spins might even fall into the category of automatic trademark approval.
Thank you for your time.
No, thank you Adrian! ;-)
-- Jeroen
On Mon, Feb 01, 2010 at 10:59:28AM +0100, Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote:
On 01/28/2010 09:45 AM, Adrian wrote:
Hi,
This been said I conclude that the spin can only live in git or l10n, so I'll end the pursuit for the full live image. But I'll continue the documentation task on how to build a live localized iso. The documentation will be available on our community site in an easy to read/implement format for which we'll offer support.
Adrian, Paul,
it would be beneficial to go through the Trademark approval stage.
That said, it could enable Adrian to build and test the spin once, press a couple of hundred, and not having to call his spin a Re-Mix.
That said, since localized spins normally only toggle the locale, I'm thinking that Trademark approval should not be too difficult and that localized spins might even fall into the category of automatic trademark approval.
Thank you for your time.
No, thank you Adrian! ;-)
Thanks to both of you. I've raised the issue to the Board for discussion, and I'll keep you updated.
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 4:43 PM, Paul W. Frields stickster@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Feb 01, 2010 at 10:59:28AM +0100, Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote:
On 01/28/2010 09:45 AM, Adrian wrote:
Hi,
This been said I conclude that the spin can only live in git or l10n, so I'll end the pursuit for the full live image. But I'll continue the documentation task on how to build a live localized iso. The documentation will be available on our community site in an easy to read/implement format for which we'll offer support.
Adrian, Paul,
it would be beneficial to go through the Trademark approval stage.
That said, it could enable Adrian to build and test the spin once, press a couple of hundred, and not having to call his spin a Re-Mix.
That said, since localized spins normally only toggle the locale, I'm thinking that Trademark approval should not be too difficult and that localized spins might even fall into the category of automatic trademark approval.
Thank you for your time.
No, thank you Adrian! ;-)
Thanks to both of you. I've raised the issue to the Board for discussion, and I'll keep you updated.
Update found here:
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/advisory-board/2010-February/007937...
In particular this section will be of interest:
* regional localized spins (stickster, 17:07:12) * LINK: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/advisory-board/2010-February/007900... (stickster, 17:07:29) * AGREED: , the Board will give a blanket TM approval for regionally-produced spins, provided that (a) The changes are only those required to serve language and font settings, including font packages, and (b) The Spins SIG approves the spins on a technical level to assure (a) (stickster, 17:24:10) * AGREED: The Board leaves the question of hosting to any regional creators to work out with the Infratructure and rel-eng teams (stickster, 17:24:49)
If there are any questions about this decision, let me know and I will get them resolved. Hope this was helpful.
Hi,
From the point of view of the desktop spin i guess we cannot change much since we cannot add all the specific languages. But from the point of view of documentation we can add some lines on how to easily add specific languages to the desktop spin.
Best regards, Adrian
On 01/27/2010 05:31 PM, Christoph Wickert wrote:
Am Mittwoch, den 27.01.2010, 17:01 +0200 schrieb Adrian:
Hi,
The thing is that our users would feel in some way special when Fedora will care sufficiently that it will build a dedicated spin for them.
Understood. But I think Kevin's question still stands: What is the benefit compared to the other spins and choosing the RO locale there?
If there is anything that we can improve, we should improve it in all spins and not just a localized one that will target a limited user base.
Regards, Christoph
spins mailing list spins@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/spins
Am Donnerstag, den 28.01.2010, 10:15 +0200 schrieb Adrian:
Hi,
From the point of view of the desktop spin i guess we cannot change much since we cannot add all the specific languages. But from the point of view of documentation we can add some lines on how to easily add specific languages to the desktop spin.
You use Administration -> Language to switch to Romanian and then system-config-language will install the necessary packages for you. IMO this is pretty straight forward, so I'm not sure it if needs to be documented better.
Do I miss something here?
Best regards, Adrian
Regards, Christoph
Hi,
Yes it is very straight forward you are 100% right, but I need to document this for our non technical users that will start with Fedora there free life.
Best regards, Adrian
On 01/28/2010 10:46 AM, Christoph Wickert wrote:
Am Donnerstag, den 28.01.2010, 10:15 +0200 schrieb Adrian:
Hi,
From the point of view of the desktop spin i guess we cannot change much since we cannot add all the specific languages. But from the point of view of documentation we can add some lines on how to easily add specific languages to the desktop spin.
You use Administration -> Language to switch to Romanian and then system-config-language will install the necessary packages for you. IMO this is pretty straight forward, so I'm not sure it if needs to be documented better.
Do I miss something here?
Best regards, Adrian
Regards, Christoph
spins mailing list spins@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/spins
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 23:28:43 +0100, Sebastian Dziallas sebastian@when.com wrote:
Hi Adrian,
we've been discussing the Fedora Ro Spin at today's Spins SIG meeting and some questions arose on whether this is intended to just live in the GIT repository or you're aiming at doing a full spin.
One technical issue that came up is that you are specifically including openoffice and that the standard desktop spin (which yours is based off of) is now using openoffice, so you should review that part of the ks file.
Hi,
Thank you for the information I'll address the issue sometimes today and re-upload the correct ks file.
Best regards, Adrian
On 01/28/2010 09:26 AM, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 23:28:43 +0100, Sebastian Dziallassebastian@when.com wrote:
Hi Adrian,
we've been discussing the Fedora Ro Spin at today's Spins SIG meeting and some questions arose on whether this is intended to just live in the GIT repository or you're aiming at doing a full spin.
One technical issue that came up is that you are specifically including openoffice and that the standard desktop spin (which yours is based off of) is now using openoffice, so you should review that part of the ks file.
-
Adrian -
Bruno Wolff III -
Christoph Wickert -
Jeroen van Meeuwen -
Kevin Fenzi -
Paul W. Frields -
Sebastian Dziallas