In keeping with FESCo's approval[1] of a keepalive requirement, the following Spins and Labs are marked for retirement in Fedora 32 unless the maintainer replies to the keepalive request or a new maintainer steps up.
1. Jam Audio[2] (keepalive[3]) 2. Scientific[4] (keepalive[5])
[1] https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1972 [2] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_jam [3] https://pagure.io/fedora-project-schedule/issue/159 [4] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Scientific_Spin [5] https://pagure.io/fedora-project-schedule/issue/168
Hello Ben,
I'm the current leader of the Ubuntu Studio project. I actually went to Ubuntu from Fedora after learning that Ubuntu Studio was nearing the same fate that I'm seeing Fedora Jam headed towards. In that time, I was able to rally the troops and rescue Ubuntu Studio to become the flourishing flavor of Ubuntu that it is today.
Unfortunately, there have been circumstances which I will refrain from posting about here that has my team on edge and looking for an alternative. With the past focus on Fedora from CCRMA, and with the Fedora JAM Audio lab having existed, our eyes have turned here.
With that, while we cannot guarantee a Fedora 32 release, we would like to do what we can to bring Jam back and/or keep it alive. We would be introducing tools that we developed for Ubuntu Studio, namely what is now known as Ubuntu Studio Controls, in which case we'd simply drop the "Ubuntu" from the name.
Let me know where to go next.
Thank you, Erich Eickmeyer
On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 17:23:57 -0000, Erich Eickmeyer wrote:
Hello Ben,
Hi Erich,
I'm the current leader of the Ubuntu Studio project. I actually went to Ubuntu from Fedora after learning that Ubuntu Studio was nearing the same fate that I'm seeing Fedora Jam headed towards. In that time, I was able to rally the troops and rescue Ubuntu Studio to become the flourishing flavor of Ubuntu that it is today.
Unfortunately, there have been circumstances which I will refrain from posting about here that has my team on edge and looking for an alternative. With the past focus on Fedora from CCRMA, and with the Fedora JAM Audio lab having existed, our eyes have turned here.
With that, while we cannot guarantee a Fedora 32 release, we would like to do what we can to bring Jam back and/or keep it alive. We would be introducing tools that we developed for Ubuntu Studio, namely what is now known as Ubuntu Studio Controls, in which case we'd simply drop the "Ubuntu" from the name.
Let me know where to go next.
We just did the CompNeuro lab for F32, so I sort of know the process. A new spin/lab can be proposed using the Change process as a "self contained" change:
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/program_management/changes_policy/#_cha...
Given that the Jam was already a Spin, it should be quite easy for you to resurrect it.
On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 17:23:57 -0000, Erich Eickmeyer wrote:
Hi Erich,
Hi Ankur,
We just did the CompNeuro lab for F32, so I sort of know the process. A new spin/lab can be proposed using the Change process as a "self contained" change:
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/program_management/changes_policy/#_...
Given that the Jam was already a Spin, it should be quite easy for you to resurrect it.
Excellent. I just looked at that document and it appears as though, in order to submit the change, one needs a Fedora account (got it) with at least CLA+1 to edit the wiki to propose the changes, which means I need to join a group. The question is, which one? I can't find any way to join the Audio SIG, the Packaging SIG sounds reasonable as I would be introducing new packages, and then there's the Spins SIG which would also make sense.
I guess I just need some further guidance.
Thanks, Erich
On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 17:30:34 -0000, Erich Eickmeyer wrote:
On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 17:23:57 -0000, Erich Eickmeyer wrote:
Hi Erich,
Hi Ankur,
Hello!
We just did the CompNeuro lab for F32, so I sort of know the process. A new spin/lab can be proposed using the Change process as a "self contained" change:
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/program_management/changes_policy/#_...
Given that the Jam was already a Spin, it should be quite easy for you to resurrect it.
Excellent. I just looked at that document and it appears as though, in order to submit the change, one needs a Fedora account (got it) with at least CLA+1 to edit the wiki to propose the changes, which means I need to join a group. The question is, which one? I can't find any way to join the Audio SIG,
I don't know enough about the Jam. Were they using an FAS group to manage things, like packages, for example? I couldn't find an "audio" or "jam" FAS group when I looked.
If you can tell us your FAS username, I can add you to the wikiedit group in the meantime so you can edit pages there.
the Packaging SIG sounds reasonable as I would be introducing new packages,
The packaging SIG has a very well defined process---the idea is to ensure that package maintainers are aware of their duties and the skills they need: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_get_sponsored_into_the_packager_group https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join_the_package_collection_maintainers
Again, quite a few sponsors around, so if you take over the maintenance of the Fedora Jam SIG and its packages, there should be no trouble sponsoring you as a package maintainer too :)
and then there's the Spins SIG which would also make sense.
I don't see an FAS group associated with this either, somehow.
I guess I just need some further guidance.
So, in general, a SIG is just a bunch of people working on something together. A SIG may not always have an associated FAS group---it depends on what the SIG's requirements are.
I also saw your post on Telegram about the #fedora-jam IRC channel. I think @jflory gave you a link on the process already. However, I noticed that the Jam seems to have a channel already: #fedora-audio https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Jam_Audio_Spin#Support
Do you think this can either be reused, or if not, the documentation updated so your users know? (There also seems to be a mailing list.)
Hi Ankur,
On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 17:30:34 -0000, Erich Eickmeyer wrote:
Hello!
I don't know enough about the Jam. Were they using an FAS group to manage things, like packages, for example? I couldn't find an "audio" or "jam" FAS group when I looked.
Same, I couldn't find one either.
If you can tell us your FAS username, I can add you to the wikiedit group in the meantime so you can edit pages there.
My FAS username is "eeickmeyer". :)
The packaging SIG has a very well defined process---the idea is to ensure that package maintainers are aware of their duties and the skills they need: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_get_sponsored_into_the_packager_group https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join_the_package_collection_maintainers
Again, quite a few sponsors around, so if you take over the maintenance of the Fedora Jam SIG and its packages, there should be no trouble sponsoring you as a package maintainer too :)
Yes, I've been looking at that. Since I'll be introducing one or two new packages that I know of off the top of my head, it just seems to be a logical choice for somewhere to go. One of those packages isn't quite ready (I want to go with whatever we release into Ubuntu), so I'm waiting on that. Additionally, we plan on moving that package from Launchpad's git system to github so that we can de-ubuntuize it, for lack of a better term. :)
I don't see an FAS group associated with this either, somehow.
I believe that's the "packaging" group, pretty simply. I saw it in the list. Seems to be a prerequisite for joining a lot of other groups.
So, in general, a SIG is just a bunch of people working on something together. A SIG may not always have an associated FAS group---it depends on what the SIG's requirements are.
I also saw your post on Telegram about the #fedora-jam IRC channel. I think @jflory gave you a link on the process already. However, I noticed that the Jam seems to have a channel already: #fedora-audio https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Jam_Audio_Spin#Support
I'll join the #fedora-audio channel, but if it's dead with just lurkers, I'd rather start with something new.
Do you think this can either be reused, or if not, the documentation updated so your users know? (There also seems to be a mailing list.)
Let me put it this way: there's a ton of outdated documentation on Ubuntu's wiki regarding Ubuntu Studio that I haven't even touched because it's that poorly outdated. That one page for Jam is nothing compared to what is on the Ubuntu wiki, so I'll likely just reuse that page.
Thanks for all your help. Still trying to get things organized, so this is super helpful. Erich
On Sun, Feb 02, 2020 19:46:30 -0000, Erich Eickmeyer wrote:
Hi Ankur,
On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 17:30:34 -0000, Erich Eickmeyer wrote:
Hello!
I don't know enough about the Jam. Were they using an FAS group to manage things, like packages, for example? I couldn't find an "audio" or "jam" FAS group when I looked.
Same, I couldn't find one either.
Ah---maybe you can create one if a team is going to maintain packages. But this can be done later (packager FAS groups are explained later in this e-mail):)
If you can tell us your FAS username, I can add you to the wikiedit group in the meantime so you can edit pages there.
My FAS username is "eeickmeyer". :)
I've added you to the wikiedit group now. You should be able to edit the wiki now.
The packaging SIG has a very well defined process---the idea is to ensure that package maintainers are aware of their duties and the skills they need: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_get_sponsored_into_the_packager_group https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join_the_package_collection_maintainers
Again, quite a few sponsors around, so if you take over the maintenance of the Fedora Jam SIG and its packages, there should be no trouble sponsoring you as a package maintainer too :)
Yes, I've been looking at that. Since I'll be introducing one or two new packages that I know of off the top of my head, it just seems to be a logical choice for somewhere to go. One of those packages isn't quite ready (I want to go with whatever we release into Ubuntu), so I'm waiting on that. Additionally, we plan on moving that package from Launchpad's git system to github so that we can de-ubuntuize it, for lack of a better term. :)
That sounds great. I've seen your e-mail to the -devel list too. So, I don't think packaging will pose much issue.
I don't see an FAS group associated with this either, somehow.
I believe that's the "packaging" group, pretty simply. I saw it in the list. Seems to be a prerequisite for joining a lot of other groups.
Yes---there are two general types of groups on FAS: - tracking - packager
"Tracking" groups are merely to keep track of members---usually they don't give a member any extra permissions.
The "Packager" group is sort of a base group that a gives access to our packages. Well, the ones a member maintains. (To be able to work with all packages, even ones that are maintained by others, one has to be a "proven packager").
Other "packager" groups are generally used to share packaging responsibilities. For example, we have the neuro-sig packager group. Everyone in this packager group can commit to all packages maintained by this group. One has to be in the packager group to be able to join other packager type groups.
I don't see a packager group related to the Jam, so you could request for one to be able to similarly share packaging responsibilities if you think that would help. (It really does help us in the neuro-sig)
So, in general, a SIG is just a bunch of people working on something together. A SIG may not always have an associated FAS group---it depends on what the SIG's requirements are.
I also saw your post on Telegram about the #fedora-jam IRC channel. I think @jflory gave you a link on the process already. However, I noticed that the Jam seems to have a channel already: #fedora-audio https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Jam_Audio_Spin#Support
I'll join the #fedora-audio channel, but if it's dead with just lurkers, I'd rather start with something new.
Sure! Makes sense.
Do you think this can either be reused, or if not, the documentation updated so your users know? (There also seems to be a mailing list.)
Let me put it this way: there's a ton of outdated documentation on Ubuntu's wiki regarding Ubuntu Studio that I haven't even touched because it's that poorly outdated. That one page for Jam is nothing compared to what is on the Ubuntu wiki, so I'll likely just reuse that page.
Great. Once things are set up, the team could consider using docs.fedoraproject.org for user-end documentation too: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/docs/
Thanks for all your help. Still trying to get things organized, so this is super helpful.
No worries. Thanks very much for taking an interest in the Jam SIG. :)
On Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 17:26 Ankur Sinha sanjay.ankur@gmail.com wrote:
Given that the Jam was already a Spin, it should be quite easy for you
to resurrect it.
Very easy. It hasn't been retired yet, so it doesn't need to be resurrected. :-)
Erich, I will follow up with you next week. I've been traveling the last two weeks, so I'm a little behind on my email.
On Sun, Feb 02, 2020 11:18:33 +0100, Ben Cotton wrote:
On Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 17:26 Ankur Sinha sanjay.ankur@gmail.com wrote:
Given that the Jam was already a Spin, it should be quite easy for you to resurrect it.Very easy. It hasn't been retired yet, so it doesn't need to be resurrected. :-)
Erich, I will follow up with you next week. I've been traveling the last two weeks, so I'm a little behind on my email.
Ah, that's great! I'm sure the rest of us can help with the other Spin related work/stuff :D
Hi Ben,
On Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 17:26 Ankur Sinha <sanjay.ankur(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Given that the Jam was already a Spin, it should be quite easy for you
Very easy. It hasn't been retired yet, so it doesn't need to be resurrected. :-)
Erich, I will follow up with you next week. I've been traveling the last two weeks, so I'm a little behind on my email.
That's excellent news. I'll be looking forward to hearing from you.
-
Ankur Sinha -
Ben Cotton -
Erich Eickmeyer