Hi
Our spin has now been approved "ready for spin SIG" on the wiki[1]. As far i have understood, this means we need to have a meeting and get approval from you guys?
I'm also wondering how we go about getting the spin into the nightlies and getting the kickstart into the spin-kickstarts package. Are you the right guys to contact for that?
[1]https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_jam
On 12/05/2012 11:19 AM, Jørn Lomax wrote:
Hi
Our spin has now been approved "ready for spin SIG" on the wiki[1]. As far i have understood, this means we need to have a meeting and get approval from you guys?
I'm also wondering how we go about getting the spin into the nightlies and getting the kickstart into the spin-kickstarts package. Are you the right guys to contact for that?
The music-creation SIG is still waiting on confirmation of this submission. We've done rigorous testing and analysis and we'd like to start on our zero-day documentation so we can hit the ground running. When will this be part of the nightlies?
regards,
Brendan
On Tue, 18 Dec 2012 14:43:04 +0100 Brendan Jones brendan.jones.it@gmail.com wrote:
On 12/05/2012 11:19 AM, Jørn Lomax wrote:
Hi
Our spin has now been approved "ready for spin SIG" on the wiki[1]. As far i have understood, this means we need to have a meeting and get approval from you guys?
I'm also wondering how we go about getting the spin into the nightlies and getting the kickstart into the spin-kickstarts package. Are you the right guys to contact for that?
The music-creation SIG is still waiting on confirmation of this submission. We've done rigorous testing and analysis and we'd like to start on our zero-day documentation so we can hit the ground running. When will this be part of the nightlies?
I'm not sure where this is. ;(
Christoph was going to try and do a spins sig meeting, but I don't know if it ever happened. ;(
I can't add them to the nightlies until they are checked into git. They need to be approved by the sig before that happens.
I really really think this is late for adding spins... we are in final freeze. However, I would probably support the jam one simply because you are being active and trying to get things through, and it's not at all your fault. :)
kevin
On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 18:13:58 -0700, Kevin Fenzi kevin@scrye.com wrote:
I really really think this is late for adding spins... we are in final freeze. However, I would probably support the jam one simply because you are being active and trying to get things through, and it's not at all your fault. :)
Given that QA doesn't really worry much about the non-Desktop spins, I don't think getting this one in late will be a big deal.
The spin-kickstarts rebuild will happen very late to catch any last minute ks changes (since it is supposed to match the release), so we have time to get the ks file in the release even if we don't publish an ISO.
If someone does add the kickstart file, don't forget to change the Makefile as well.
On 12/19/2012 04:17 AM, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 18:13:58 -0700, Kevin Fenzi kevin@scrye.com wrote:
I really really think this is late for adding spins... we are in final freeze. However, I would probably support the jam one simply because you are being active and trying to get things through, and it's not at all your fault. :)
Given that QA doesn't really worry much about the non-Desktop spins, I don't think getting this one in late will be a big deal.
The spin-kickstarts rebuild will happen very late to catch any last minute ks changes (since it is supposed to match the release), so we have time to get the ks file in the release even if we don't publish an ISO.
If someone does add the kickstart file, don't forget to change the Makefile as well.
I'm guessing someone from our SIG will require access to the spin-kickstarts git. Happy for that person to be me. How can I obtain access? Do I need to file a ticket somewhere?
Alternatively, if someone would like to copy the kickstart from our git repo it is here:
http://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/music-creation.git/tree/spin-kickstarts/fed...
Brendan
On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 12:34 PM, Brendan Jones brendan.jones.it@gmail.com wrote:
On 12/19/2012 04:17 AM, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 18:13:58 -0700, Kevin Fenzi kevin@scrye.com wrote:
I really really think this is late for adding spins... we are in final freeze. However, I would probably support the jam one simply because you are being active and trying to get things through, and it's not at all your fault. :)
Given that QA doesn't really worry much about the non-Desktop spins, I don't think getting this one in late will be a big deal.
The spin-kickstarts rebuild will happen very late to catch any last minute ks changes (since it is supposed to match the release), so we have time to get the ks file in the release even if we don't publish an ISO.
If someone does add the kickstart file, don't forget to change the Makefile as well.
I'm guessing someone from our SIG will require access to the spin-kickstarts git. Happy for that person to be me. How can I obtain access? Do I need to file a ticket somewhere?
You need to request access to the FAS group from within the FAS system, once you've requested access someone with the appropriate level can approve it.
Alternatively, if someone would like to copy the kickstart from our git repo it is here:
http://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/music-creation.git/tree/spin-kickstarts/fed...
Brendan
spins mailing list spins@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/spins
On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 13:46:25 +0100, Brendan Jones brendan.jones.it@gmail.com wrote:
On 12/19/2012 01:41 PM, Peter Robinson wrote:
<snip> > >You need to request access to the FAS group from within the FAS >system, once you've requested access someone with the appropriate >level can approve it. >
Thanks, I've just requested membership to to gitspin-kickstarts.
Normally we wait until the spin is approved and then you get access to the repo. We will normally do the initial import of kickstart file.
On 12/19/2012 02:23 PM, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 13:46:25 +0100, Brendan Jones brendan.jones.it@gmail.com wrote:
On 12/19/2012 01:41 PM, Peter Robinson wrote:
<snip> > > You need to request access to the FAS group from within the FAS > system, once you've requested access someone with the appropriate > level can approve it. >
Thanks, I've just requested membership to to gitspin-kickstarts.
Normally we wait until the spin is approved and then you get access to the repo. We will normally do the initial import of kickstart file. _______________________________________________ spins mailing list spins@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/spins
Would it be possible for me too to get access to the spins git repo? I understand if that brings too many cooks to the kitchen, but since I'm the co-owner of the spin (and It's become my baby), i wouldn't mind having access too :)
On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 15:40:00 +0100, Jørn Lomax northlomax@gmail.com wrote:
Would it be possible for me too to get access to the spins git repo? I understand if that brings too many cooks to the kitchen, but since I'm the co-owner of the spin (and It's become my baby), i wouldn't mind having access too :)
I don't think that is a problem.
On Wed, 19 Dec 2012 09:07:12 -0600 Bruno Wolff III bruno@wolff.to wrote:
On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 15:40:00 +0100, Jørn Lomax northlomax@gmail.com wrote:
Would it be possible for me too to get access to the spins git repo? I understand if that brings too many cooks to the kitchen, but since I'm the co-owner of the spin (and It's become my baby), i wouldn't mind having access too :)
I don't think that is a problem.
I've sponsored both of you into the group.
Do be very careful with commits, since we are in final freeze.
Just add your ks and do only the minimum needed to fix any issues with it.
Also, note that we are building from the f18 branch...
kevin
On 12/19/2012 04:48 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2012 09:07:12 -0600 Bruno Wolff III bruno@wolff.to wrote:
On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 15:40:00 +0100, Jørn Lomax northlomax@gmail.com wrote:
Would it be possible for me too to get access to the spins git repo? I understand if that brings too many cooks to the kitchen, but since I'm the co-owner of the spin (and It's become my baby), i wouldn't mind having access too :)
I don't think that is a problem.
I've sponsored both of you into the group.
Do be very careful with commits, since we are in final freeze.
Just add your ks and do only the minimum needed to fix any issues with it.
Also, note that we are building from the f18 branch...
kevin
Thanks!
Happy for you to take over from here Jørn.
We will ask here first before implementing any changes.
On 12/19/2012 04:48 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2012 09:07:12 -0600 Bruno Wolff III bruno@wolff.to wrote:
On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 15:40:00 +0100, Jørn Lomax northlomax@gmail.com wrote:
Would it be possible for me too to get access to the spins git repo? I understand if that brings too many cooks to the kitchen, but since I'm the co-owner of the spin (and It's become my baby), i wouldn't mind having access too :)
I don't think that is a problem.
I've sponsored both of you into the group.
Do be very careful with commits, since we are in final freeze.
Just add your ks and do only the minimum needed to fix any issues with it.
Also, note that we are building from the f18 branch...
kevin
Thanks Kevin, have added the fedora-jam-live-kde.ks to the repo but have not updated the Makefile.am. Just wanted to check here first that's its OK.
Do we simply add the .ks to fedora_DATA ?
On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 15:48:47 +0100, Brendan Jones brendan.jones.it@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks Kevin, have added the fedora-jam-live-kde.ks to the repo but have not updated the Makefile.am. Just wanted to check here first that's its OK.
Do we simply add the .ks to fedora_DATA ?
Yes. Be carefull with backslashes if you add it to the end.
I noticed that you have two part commands for /. While that should work, it would probably be less confusing to have just one.
Don't forget to cherry-pick the commits into the f18 branch when you think you have it all set.
On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 15:48:47 +0100, Brendan Jones brendan.jones.it@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks Kevin, have added the fedora-jam-live-kde.ks to the repo but have not updated the Makefile.am. Just wanted to check here first that's its OK.
This still isn't in the f18 branch. Is that intentional?
On 23 Dec 2012 18:47, "Bruno Wolff III" bruno@wolff.to wrote:
On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 15:48:47 +0100, Brendan Jones brendan.jones.it@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks Kevin, have added the fedora-jam-live-kde.ks to the repo but
have not updated the Makefile.am. Just wanted to check here first that's its OK.
This still isn't in the f18 branch. Is that intentional?
spins mailing list spins@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/spins
Not to my knowladge, It should be in the f18 branch
On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 19:29:44 +0100, Jørn Lomax northlomax@gmail.com wrote:
On 23 Dec 2012 18:47, "Bruno Wolff III" bruno@wolff.to wrote:
On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 15:48:47 +0100, Brendan Jones brendan.jones.it@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks Kevin, have added the fedora-jam-live-kde.ks to the repo but
have not updated the Makefile.am. Just wanted to check here first that's its OK.
This still isn't in the f18 branch. Is that intentional?
Not to my knowladge, It should be in the f18 branch
I cherry-pick'd the two commits into the f18 branch.
On 12/19/2012 02:13 AM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
On Tue, 18 Dec 2012 14:43:04 +0100 Brendan Jones brendan.jones.it@gmail.com wrote:
On 12/05/2012 11:19 AM, Jørn Lomax wrote:
Hi
Our spin has now been approved "ready for spin SIG" on the wiki[1]. As far i have understood, this means we need to have a meeting and get approval from you guys?
I'm also wondering how we go about getting the spin into the nightlies and getting the kickstart into the spin-kickstarts package. Are you the right guys to contact for that?
The music-creation SIG is still waiting on confirmation of this submission. We've done rigorous testing and analysis and we'd like to start on our zero-day documentation so we can hit the ground running. When will this be part of the nightlies?
I'm not sure where this is. ;(
Christoph was going to try and do a spins sig meeting, but I don't know if it ever happened. ;(
I can't add them to the nightlies until they are checked into git. They need to be approved by the sig before that happens.
I really really think this is late for adding spins... we are in final freeze. However, I would probably support the jam one simply because you are being active and trying to get things through, and it's not at all your fault. :)
Thanks to everyone's help getting the Spin into the nightly composes.
I've been asked when or/if the spin will appear on the Spins page and have its own page so we can promote it.
Do we have enough to time to realize this in time for release? Anything we can do?
regards,
Brendan
On Mon, Jan 07, 2013 at 17:07:05 +0100, Brendan Jones brendan.jones.it@gmail.com wrote:
I've been asked when or/if the spin will appear on the Spins page and have its own page so we can promote it.
Do we have enough to time to realize this in time for release? Anything we can do?
The spins pages are just normal wiki pages. You can make something there on your own. Just follow one of the other ones as a rough guideline.
On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 5:17 PM, Bruno Wolff III bruno@wolff.to wrote:
On Mon, Jan 07, 2013 at 17:07:05 +0100, Brendan Jones brendan.jones.it@gmail.com wrote:
I've been asked when or/if the spin will appear on the Spins page and have its own page so we can promote it.
Do we have enough to time to realize this in time for release? Anything we can do?
The spins pages are just normal wiki pages. You can make something there on your own. Just follow one of the other ones as a rough guideline.
I believe the pages at http://spins.fedoraproject.org/ are not wiki pages but you need access to the web git repo to push changes.
Peter
On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 12:26 PM, Peter Robinson pbrobinson@gmail.comwrote:
I believe the pages at http://spins.fedoraproject.org/ are not wiki pages but you need access to the web git repo to push changes.
Peter
I think it's sufficient to file a bug on the fedora-websites trac[1] and let the websites team take care of it.
Rich
On 01/07/2013 06:29 PM, Rich Mattes wrote:
On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 12:26 PM, Peter Robinson <pbrobinson@gmail.com mailto:pbrobinson@gmail.com> wrote:
I believe the pages at http://spins.fedoraproject.org/ are not wiki pages but you need access to the web git repo to push changes. PeterI think it's sufficient to file a bug on the fedora-websites trac[1] and let the websites team take care of it.
Rich
Thanks! Will do
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El Mon, 07 Jan 2013 18:44:41 +0100 Brendan Jones brendan.jones.it@gmail.com escribió:
On 01/07/2013 06:29 PM, Rich Mattes wrote:
On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 12:26 PM, Peter Robinson <pbrobinson@gmail.com mailto:pbrobinson@gmail.com> wrote:
I believe the pages at http://spins.fedoraproject.org/ are notwiki pages but you need access to the web git repo to push changes.
PeterI think it's sufficient to file a bug on the fedora-websites trac[1] and let the websites team take care of it.
Just to be very clear here, Release engineering will not be adding the spin to Fedora 18, Its way too late to do so. there is work needed to be done for spins.fp.o that needs translation. the cutoff date for new spins was months ago for a reason. while its great that you have got it done. It can not be added to Fedora 18 and will make its debut in Fedora 19.
Dennis
On 01/07/2013 06:48 PM, Dennis Gilmore wrote:
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El Mon, 07 Jan 2013 18:44:41 +0100 Brendan Jones brendan.jones.it@gmail.com escribió:
On 01/07/2013 06:29 PM, Rich Mattes wrote:
On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 12:26 PM, Peter Robinson <pbrobinson@gmail.com mailto:pbrobinson@gmail.com> wrote:
I believe the pages at http://spins.fedoraproject.org/ are notwiki pages but you need access to the web git repo to push changes.
PeterI think it's sufficient to file a bug on the fedora-websites trac[1] and let the websites team take care of it.
Just to be very clear here, Release engineering will not be adding the spin to Fedora 18, Its way too late to do so. there is work needed to be done for spins.fp.o that needs translation. the cutoff date for new spins was months ago for a reason. while its great that you have got it done. It can not be added to Fedora 18 and will make its debut in Fedora 19.
Dennis
I'm not pointing fingers at releng here and I understand the work involved but I must say that this really saddens me. This project was part of the GSOC under my mentorship and my student performed all tasks well within projected deadlines for F18 (before the numerous delays). All steps outlined in the Spins process were followed to the letter.
The GSOC project as a whole was managed really well this year by Buddhike and co. I think the whole Spins process this time round reflects really poorly on Fedora's commitment to embracing new contributors and is quite frankly a kick in the face to the student who put in so much hard work over the summer.
On Mon, Jan 07, 2013 at 18:58:30 +0100, Brendan Jones brendan.jones.it@gmail.com wrote:
I'm not pointing fingers at releng here and I understand the work involved but I must say that this really saddens me. This project was part of the GSOC under my mentorship and my student performed all tasks well within projected deadlines for F18 (before the numerous delays). All steps outlined in the Spins process were followed to the letter.
The kickstart file will still be available even if there isn't a posted ISO. Also if you set up a comps group as part of this, it will be easy for people to install the set of packages.
The main value of the release live ISOs is for demoing. If you are really using the stuff, you normally want the package set installed on top of whatever desktop you are using. Even for people who really use live images for real work, there is value in rebuilding these regularly to get updates.
The GSOC project as a whole was managed really well this year by Buddhike and co. I think the whole Spins process this time round reflects really poorly on Fedora's commitment to embracing new contributors and is quite frankly a kick in the face to the student who put in so much hard work over the summer.
The spins group is understaffed. If you wanted to try to run that process you'd probably be given reign to do it. You'd get some help from other people, but you'd end up doing most of the cat herding yoruself.
On 01/07/2013 07:15 PM, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
On Mon, Jan 07, 2013 at 18:58:30 +0100, Brendan Jones brendan.jones.it@gmail.com wrote:
I'm not pointing fingers at releng here and I understand the work involved but I must say that this really saddens me. This project was part of the GSOC under my mentorship and my student performed all tasks well within projected deadlines for F18 (before the numerous delays). All steps outlined in the Spins process were followed to the letter.
The kickstart file will still be available even if there isn't a posted ISO. Also if you set up a comps group as part of this, it will be easy for people to install the set of packages.
The main value of the release live ISOs is for demoing. If you are really using the stuff, you normally want the package set installed on top of whatever desktop you are using. Even for people who really use live images for real work, there is value in rebuilding these regularly to get updates.
For us it really is the best promotional tool - to have the spin a few steps away from "Get Fedora". One of our main goals was to attract contributors to the Audio SIG, and having an endorsed Spin lends a lot of weight to that aim.
I will continue with the request to the websites team for the Fedora Jam page so we can at least point it to the nightlies. On the positive side there are great benefits in having an up to date ISO.
The GSOC project as a whole was managed really well this year by Buddhike and co. I think the whole Spins process this time round reflects really poorly on Fedora's commitment to embracing new contributors and is quite frankly a kick in the face to the student who put in so much hard work over the summer.
The spins group is understaffed. If you wanted to try to run that process you'd probably be given reign to do it. You'd get some help from other people, but you'd end up doing most of the cat herding yoruself.
For Fedora 19 (this is also my first spin) I'll make sure I join the Spins SIG and speak up if it looks like we're losing momentum.
Should we be encouraging prospective Spins to participate in the Feature process to ensure these things don't fall of the radar?
On Mon, Jan 07, 2013 at 19:28:51 +0100, Brendan Jones brendan.jones.it@gmail.com wrote:
For Fedora 19 (this is also my first spin) I'll make sure I join the Spins SIG and speak up if it looks like we're losing momentum.
We haven't had regular meetings for at least 2 years. For a year before that it was mainly just Kevin and me.
Should we be encouraging prospective Spins to participate in the Feature process to ensure these things don't fall of the radar?
Ideally people from the various spins should be talking about best practices for spin kickstarts and the processes for official spins. But even when meetings were having more than two people showed up, a number of spins weren't represented. That's where cat herding comes in.
Am Montag, den 07.01.2013, 11:48 -0600 schrieb Dennis Gilmore:
Just to be very clear here, Release engineering will not be adding the spin to Fedora 18, Its way too late to do so.
I do understand it's too late and I as the spins wrangler take the blame. I am just too busy with my dayjob that I cannot fulfill all my duty as the spins wrangler.
But I wonder: How are we - the spins SIG - supposed to handle all the work, or more importantly the coordination with other groups. Is there a documented and reliable process to inform rel-eng what spins have to be built? How to we request a spins.fedoraproject.org website? How can we be sure the artwork gets done?
Sure, some teams use trac and one can file a ticket, but that is no guarantee the work actually gets done. I recall the Fedora Security Lab spin requested icons 2-3 years ago. Nothing has happened - except that a design team member asked if it was ok to close the ticket.
The spins SIG does not have the power to do all this. And by power mean both the manpower and a mandate. So what are we going to do about this?
Kind regards, Christoph
On 01/07/2013 10:24 PM, Christoph Wickert wrote:
Am Montag, den 07.01.2013, 11:48 -0600 schrieb Dennis Gilmore:
Just to be very clear here, Release engineering will not be adding the spin to Fedora 18, Its way too late to do so.
I do understand it's too late and I as the spins wrangler take the blame. I am just too busy with my dayjob that I cannot fulfill all my duty as the spins wrangler.
But I wonder: How are we - the spins SIG - supposed to handle all the work, or more importantly the coordination with other groups. Is there a documented and reliable process to inform rel-eng what spins have to be built? How to we request a spins.fedoraproject.org website? How can we be sure the artwork gets done?
Sure, some teams use trac and one can file a ticket, but that is no guarantee the work actually gets done. I recall the Fedora Security Lab spin requested icons 2-3 years ago. Nothing has happened - except that a design team member asked if it was ok to close the ticket.
The Spins process seems to be be fairly well documented with respect to the role of wrangler, the board and the submitter. However, currently this process falls down due to the fact that the Watch feature of the fedoraproject wiki clearly does not work. Is this supposed to?
I would think the Spins process could be fairly well described in the spins-kickstart trac from the submitters perspective. An extra field in the ticket (Ready for Wrangler, Ready for SIG, etc) Was that the original intention rather than using the wiki?
This creates another initial body of work (updating trac and editing all the documentation).
See also my idea for possibly replacing spins:
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2013-January/176011.html
kevin
On Mon, Jan 07, 2013 at 17:26:09 +0000, Peter Robinson pbrobinson@gmail.com wrote:
I believe the pages at http://spins.fedoraproject.org/ are not wiki pages but you need access to the web git repo to push changes.
OK. I was thinking of the other Spins pages. I forgot about the ones you mentioned.
-
Brendan Jones -
Bruno Wolff III -
Christoph Wickert -
Dennis Gilmore -
Jørn Loamx -
Kevin Fenzi -
Peter Robinson -
Rich Mattes