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Breaking the thread intentionally to bring back focus.
With Adam's recent input, I've modified the grammar to what I hope will be it's final form.
The complete grammar is available at https://fedorahosted.org/sssd/wiki/HBAC_Grammar
The differences from my previous proposal (involving septets) is here: https://fedorahosted.org/sssd/wiki/HBAC_Grammar?action=diff&version=3
The primary change is that instead of introducing the septet concept, we will specify "day within a range". So the first Friday of the month would be:
accessTime = periodic monthly on Fri between 1-7
Tuesdays for the second half of the month would be: accessTime = periodic monthly on Tue between 15-31
I don't anticipate that last being very common, but it's now possible.
Please chime in if you have any further comments about the grammar, or we will declare this final and move to adjusting the implementation next week.
- -- Stephen Gallagher RHCE 804006346421761
Delivering value year after year. Red Hat ranks #1 in value among software vendors. http://www.redhat.com/promo/vendor/
On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 15:31:30 -0500 Stephen Gallagher sgallagh@redhat.com wrote:
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Breaking the thread intentionally to bring back focus.
With Adam's recent input, I've modified the grammar to what I hope will be it's final form.
The complete grammar is available at https://fedorahosted.org/sssd/wiki/HBAC_Grammar
The differences from my previous proposal (involving septets) is here: https://fedorahosted.org/sssd/wiki/HBAC_Grammar?action=diff&version=3
The primary change is that instead of introducing the septet concept, we will specify "day within a range". So the first Friday of the month would be:
accessTime = periodic monthly on Fri between 1-7
Tuesdays for the second half of the month would be: accessTime = periodic monthly on Tue between 15-31
I don't anticipate that last being very common, but it's now possible.
Please chime in if you have any further comments about the grammar, or we will declare this final and move to adjusting the implementation next week.
So we loose the possibility of saying: the last friday of the month ?
Simo.
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On 11/19/2010 03:55 PM, Simo Sorce wrote:
On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 15:31:30 -0500 Stephen Gallagher sgallagh@redhat.com wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Breaking the thread intentionally to bring back focus.
With Adam's recent input, I've modified the grammar to what I hope will be it's final form.
The complete grammar is available at https://fedorahosted.org/sssd/wiki/HBAC_Grammar
The differences from my previous proposal (involving septets) is here: https://fedorahosted.org/sssd/wiki/HBAC_Grammar?action=diff&version=3
The primary change is that instead of introducing the septet concept, we will specify "day within a range". So the first Friday of the month would be:
accessTime = periodic monthly on Fri between 1-7
Tuesdays for the second half of the month would be: accessTime = periodic monthly on Tue between 15-31
I don't anticipate that last being very common, but it's now possible.
Please chime in if you have any further comments about the grammar, or we will declare this final and move to adjusting the implementation next week.
So we loose the possibility of saying: the last friday of the month ?
It's not impossible, it can still be done with this schema, though it's somewhat more complicated.
You'd need to set it up as separate rules for each particular month.
- -- Stephen Gallagher RHCE 804006346421761
Delivering value year after year. Red Hat ranks #1 in value among software vendors. http://www.redhat.com/promo/vendor/
Stephen Gallagher wrote:
Breaking the thread intentionally to bring back focus.
With Adam's recent input, I've modified the grammar to what I hope will be it's final form.
The complete grammar is available at https://fedorahosted.org/sssd/wiki/HBAC_Grammar
The differences from my previous proposal (involving septets) is here: https://fedorahosted.org/sssd/wiki/HBAC_Grammar?action=diff&version=3
The primary change is that instead of introducing the septet concept, we will specify "day within a range". So the first Friday of the month would be:
accessTime = periodic monthly on Fri between 1-7
Tuesdays for the second half of the month would be: accessTime = periodic monthly on Tue between 15-31
I don't anticipate that last being very common, but it's now possible.
Please chime in if you have any further comments about the grammar, or we will declare this final and move to adjusting the implementation next week.
Why you are making it singular? Why it can't be: accessTime = periodic monthly on Tue, Thu between 15-31 or accessTime = periodic monthly on Mon-Wed between 15-31 or accessTime = periodic monthly on 1,2,3 between 15-31 <- meaning same as above
It seems that "singular" in this case is an artificial limitation. However I would also treat the last portion of the rule differently. In stead of:
M-on = "on" WSP day-of-the-week-singular WSP "between" WSP day-of-the-month-range and day-of-the-month-range = range 1-31
M-on = "on" WSP day-of-the-week WSP "during-7-day-set" WSP day-set day-set = day-set-list / day-set-range day-set-list = "1-7","8-14","15-21","22-28","29+" or alternatively day-set-list = "1","2","3","4","5" <- meaning first seven days, second seven days etc. if we use this version them day-set-range can be just: day-set-range = 1-5 otherwise it might be a bit more ugly. If we now combine day set-list and day set range into one list range in the same way as we allow in interval for days we would be able to express
accessTime = periodic monthly on Tue, Thu between 15-31
it will look like:
accessTime = periodic monthly on Tue, Thu during-7-day-set 2-3 or accessTime = periodic monthly on Tue, Thu during-7-day-set 2,3
as well as accessTime = periodic monthly on Tue, Thu during-7-day-set 1 <--- meaning first Tue and Thu of the month
or
accessTime = periodic monthly on Tue, Thu during-7-day-set 1-5 <--- meaning all Tue and Thu of the month
I would actually argue that we would be able to reuse the interval logic from the month for this so it should not be more work than what has been proposed.
_______________________________________________ Freeipa-devel mailing list Freeipa-devel@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/freeipa-devel
On 11/19/2010 2:56 PM, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
So we loose the possibility of saying: the last friday of the month ?
It's not impossible, it can still be done with this schema, though it's somewhat more complicated.
You'd need to set it up as separate rules for each particular month.
How about this? accessTime = periodic monthly on Friday between (last_day_of_month-6) to last_day_of_month
Dmitri Pal wrote:
Stephen Gallagher wrote:
Breaking the thread intentionally to bring back focus.
With Adam's recent input, I've modified the grammar to what I hope will be it's final form.
The complete grammar is available at https://fedorahosted.org/sssd/wiki/HBAC_Grammar
The differences from my previous proposal (involving septets) is here: https://fedorahosted.org/sssd/wiki/HBAC_Grammar?action=diff&version=3
The primary change is that instead of introducing the septet concept, we will specify "day within a range". So the first Friday of the month would be:
accessTime = periodic monthly on Fri between 1-7
Tuesdays for the second half of the month would be: accessTime = periodic monthly on Tue between 15-31
I don't anticipate that last being very common, but it's now possible.
Please chime in if you have any further comments about the grammar, or we will declare this final and move to adjusting the implementation next week.
Why you are making it singular? Why it can't be: accessTime = periodic monthly on Tue, Thu between 15-31 or accessTime = periodic monthly on Mon-Wed between 15-31 or accessTime = periodic monthly on 1,2,3 between 15-31 <- meaning same as above
It seems that "singular" in this case is an artificial limitation. However I would also treat the last portion of the rule differently. In stead of:
M-on = "on" WSP day-of-the-week-singular WSP "between" WSP day-of-the-month-range and day-of-the-month-range = range 1-31
M-on = "on" WSP day-of-the-week WSP "during-7-day-set" WSP day-set day-set = day-set-list / day-set-range day-set-list = "1-7","8-14","15-21","22-28","29+" or alternatively day-set-list = "1","2","3","4","5" <- meaning first seven days, second seven days etc. if we use this version them day-set-range can be just: day-set-range = 1-5 otherwise it might be a bit more ugly. If we now combine day set-list and day set range into one list range in the same way as we allow in interval for days we would be able to express
accessTime = periodic monthly on Tue, Thu between 15-31
it will look like:
accessTime = periodic monthly on Tue, Thu during-7-day-set 2-3 or accessTime = periodic monthly on Tue, Thu during-7-day-set 2,3
as well as accessTime = periodic monthly on Tue, Thu during-7-day-set 1 <--- meaning first Tue and Thu of the month
or
accessTime = periodic monthly on Tue, Thu during-7-day-set 1-5 <--- meaning all Tue and Thu of the month
I would actually argue that we would be able to reuse the interval logic from the month for this so it should not be more work than what has been proposed.
Freeipa-devel mailing list Freeipa-devel@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/freeipa-devel
This does not accommodate for the "last X of the month"
so it can be modified like this:
day-set-range 1-5 / "last"
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On 11/19/2010 04:09 PM, Endi Sukma Dewata wrote:
On 11/19/2010 2:56 PM, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
So we loose the possibility of saying: the last friday of the month ?
It's not impossible, it can still be done with this schema, though it's somewhat more complicated.
You'd need to set it up as separate rules for each particular month.
How about this? accessTime = periodic monthly on Friday between (last_day_of_month-6) to last_day_of_month
Actually, I think this would be easier to handle:
accessTime = periodic monthly on Friday between -7 - -1
So we define negative day-of-the-month numbers as number of days from the end of the month, with -1 being the last day of the month.
- -- Stephen Gallagher RHCE 804006346421761
Delivering value year after year. Red Hat ranks #1 in value among software vendors. http://www.redhat.com/promo/vendor/
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On 11/19/2010 04:09 PM, Dmitri Pal wrote:
Stephen Gallagher wrote:
Breaking the thread intentionally to bring back focus.
With Adam's recent input, I've modified the grammar to what I hope will be it's final form.
The complete grammar is available at https://fedorahosted.org/sssd/wiki/HBAC_Grammar
The differences from my previous proposal (involving septets) is here: https://fedorahosted.org/sssd/wiki/HBAC_Grammar?action=diff&version=3
The primary change is that instead of introducing the septet concept, we will specify "day within a range". So the first Friday of the month would be:
accessTime = periodic monthly on Fri between 1-7
Tuesdays for the second half of the month would be: accessTime = periodic monthly on Tue between 15-31
I don't anticipate that last being very common, but it's now possible.
Please chime in if you have any further comments about the grammar, or we will declare this final and move to adjusting the implementation next week.
Why you are making it singular? Why it can't be: accessTime = periodic monthly on Tue, Thu between 15-31 or accessTime = periodic monthly on Mon-Wed between 15-31 or accessTime = periodic monthly on 1,2,3 between 15-31 <- meaning same as above
It seems that "singular" in this case is an artificial limitation.
I'll agree with this. We can remove the "singular" limitation.
However I would also treat the last portion of the rule differently. In stead of:
M-on = "on" WSP day-of-the-week-singular WSP "between" WSP day-of-the-month-range and day-of-the-month-range = range 1-31
M-on = "on" WSP day-of-the-week WSP "during-7-day-set" WSP day-set day-set = day-set-list / day-set-range day-set-list = "1-7","8-14","15-21","22-28","29+" or alternatively day-set-list = "1","2","3","4","5" <- meaning first seven days, second seven days etc. if we use this version them day-set-range can be just: day-set-range = 1-5 otherwise it might be a bit more ugly. If we now combine day set-list and day set range into one list range in the same way as we allow in interval for days we would be able to express
accessTime = periodic monthly on Tue, Thu between 15-31
it will look like:
accessTime = periodic monthly on Tue, Thu during-7-day-set 2-3 or accessTime = periodic monthly on Tue, Thu during-7-day-set 2,3
as well as accessTime = periodic monthly on Tue, Thu during-7-day-set 1 <--- meaning first Tue and Thu of the month
or
accessTime = periodic monthly on Tue, Thu during-7-day-set 1-5 <--- meaning all Tue and Thu of the month
I would actually argue that we would be able to reuse the interval logic from the month for this so it should not be more work than what has been proposed.
I am opposed to this completely. It's both unreadable and incomprehensible to most users. I think the language we've described between eliminating the "singular" limitation and adding negative numbers to describe the numbers back from the end of the month will provide all the versatility we need.
Adding "7-day-set" is no different from the "septet" we discussed previously and shot down.
Examples with my current proposal:
The first Tuesday and Thursday of the month: accessTime = periodic monthly on Tue,Thu between 1 - 7
All Tuesdays and Thursdays in the month: accessTime = periodic monthly on Tue,Thu between 1 - 31
The last Tuesday and Thursday of the month: accessTime = periodic monthly on Tue,Thus between -7 - -1
I'm questioning whether for readability (especially with negative values in play) we should switch to:
accessTime = periodic monthly on Tue,Thus between -7 and -1
Using "and" in place of the range hyphen. Thoughts?
- -- Stephen Gallagher RHCE 804006346421761
Delivering value year after year. Red Hat ranks #1 in value among software vendors. http://www.redhat.com/promo/vendor/
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I have updated the grammar page at https://fedorahosted.org/sssd/wiki/HBAC_Grammar again.
The main changes made are these:
* Eliminate the arbitrary "singular" from monthly repetitions * Add negative numbers for days of the month for counting from the end * For readability, replaced "-" with "and" for "between DAY and DAY" * For readability, added delimiter "at" before the range-specifier
Please reread the page for more detail.
- -- Stephen Gallagher RHCE 804006346421761
Delivering value year after year. Red Hat ranks #1 in value among software vendors. http://www.redhat.com/promo/vendor/
Stephen Gallagher wrote:
I have updated the grammar page at https://fedorahosted.org/sssd/wiki/HBAC_Grammar again.
The main changes made are these:
- Eliminate the arbitrary "singular" from monthly repetitions
- Add negative numbers for days of the month for counting from the end
- For readability, replaced "-" with "and" for "between DAY and DAY"
- For readability, added delimiter "at" before the range-specifier
Please reread the page for more detail.
I have to comment on many things with the current state of grammar so for easier reference I copied it here and commented inline
timerange = Absolute / Periodic
Absolute = "absolute" WSP generalizedTime WSP "~" WSP generalizedTime
generalizedTime as defined in RFC 4517 section 3.3.13 but without time zone at the end.
Periodic = "periodic" WSP Yearly / Monthly / Weekly / Daily
Yearly = "yearly" WSP Y-specifier WSP range-specified
Monthly = "monthly" WSP M-specifier WSP range-specifier
Weekly = "weekly" WSP W-specifier WSP range-specifier
Daily = "daily" WSP range-specifier
Y-specifier = Y-month / Y-week / Y-day
Y-month = "month" WSP month-number WSP M-specifier
Y-week = "week" WSP week-of-the-year WSP W-specifier
Y-day = "day" WSP day-of-the-year
M-specifier = M-on / M-day
If we read grammar so far we will end up with the following uses of the M-specifier
periodic monthly <M-specifier> <range> periodic yearly month 1,4,7 <M-specifier> <range>
So far so good. Now we have two variants of the M-specifier M-on and M-day
M-on = "on" WSP day-of-the-week WSP day-of-the-month-range
The intent of this one was to be able to specify the weekday within a month
M-day = "day" WSP day-of-the-month-interval
This one for calendar days within a month
W-specifier = "day" WSP day-of-the-week
month-number = interval 1-12
week-of-the-year = interval 1-52
septet-of-the-month = interval 1-5
The septet is not used any more and should be removed, right?
day-of-the-month-interval = interval day-of-the-month
This should be a plain interval from 1-31 with no negatives since it is used in the M-day rule I would argue that M-day can be just replaced with
M-day = "day" WSP interval 1-31
Keep in mind that definition of the interval here is as described below: interval XX-YY = a comma-separated list of items from XX to YY, or dash-separated ranges. For example, (interval 1-31) 3-7,10,12,15,25-31 with no spaces inside.
So definition of the day-of-the-month-interval can be then removed.
day-of-the-month-range = "between" WSP day-of-the-month WSP "and" WSP day-of-the-month
day-of-the-month = "-31" to "31"
This notion allows me to enter "between -31 and 3" which does not make any sense. Also current grammar does not allow me to use ranges which I want to use here. I want to be able to express "Wednesday" of the first and third week of the month. Capability to do so it completely lost. We abandoned the term "septet" not because of the bad idea but because this is a confusing word. But we can leave without it as long as I can use complex intervals. After more thinking I would like to reject idea of the negative numbers. Instead we can do the following:
M-on = "on" WSP day-of-the-week WSP "during" WSP day-of-the-month-range day-of-the-month-range = interval 1-31 / last-days last-days = "last" WSP sequential-days sequential-days = single number from the 1-31 range
So if we want to say "Wednesday" of the first and third week of the month I will use:
periodic monthly on Wed during 1-7,15-21
if I want to say Wednesday during last two weeks of the month I will say:
periodic monthly on Wed during last 14
IMO it is cleaner and simpler and allows to express all the notions we want to express.
day-of-the-week = interval 1-7 (or Mon-Sun)
range-specifier = "at" WSP HHMM WSP "+" WSP duration-specifier
What is the value and significance of the "+" here? Is it just for readability? Then I would suggest that we replace it with the word "for".
duration-specifier = DDHHMM
DD = "00" to "31"
HH = "00" to "23"
MM = "00" to "59"
interval XX-YY = a comma-separated list of items from XX to YY, or dash-separated ranges. range = dash-separated range
This definition seems incomplete but I do not know how to make it better...
For example, (interval 1-31) 3-7,10,12,15,25-31 with no spaces inside.
Thank you, Dmitri Pal
Sr. Engineering Manager IPA project, Red Hat Inc.
------------------------------- Looking to carve out IT costs? www.redhat.com/carveoutcosts/
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On 11/22/2010 12:22 PM, Dmitri Pal wrote
septet-of-the-month = interval 1-5
The septet is not used any more and should be removed, right?
Yeah, I missed removing that. I've deleted it from the page now.
day-of-the-month-interval = interval day-of-the-month
This should be a plain interval from 1-31 with no negatives since it is used in the M-day rule I would argue that M-day can be just replaced with
M-day = "day" WSP interval 1-31
I disagree. With this construction, we can say:
accessTime = periodic monthly day -1 at 0900 + 000800
(Read: on the last day of the month from 09:00 to 17:00)
This would be useful for e.g. a regularly-scheduled backup task.
Keep in mind that definition of the interval here is as described below: interval XX-YY = a comma-separated list of items from XX to YY, or dash-separated ranges. For example, (interval 1-31) 3-7,10,12,15,25-31 with no spaces inside.
So definition of the day-of-the-month-interval can be then removed.
Agreed. I've simplified the display of this.
day-of-the-month-range = "between" WSP day-of-the-month WSP "and" WSP day-of-the-month
day-of-the-month = "-31" to "31"
This notion allows me to enter "between -31 and 3" which does not make any sense.
I'll clarify with "-31" to "-1" OR "0" to "31".
Also current grammar does not allow me to use ranges which I want to use here.
Please explain what range you want here. I'm specifically avoiding "intervals" here because it's too complex to understand.
Describing events with arbitrary intervals like this would be better done with the M-day approach.
I want to be able to express "Wednesday" of the first and third week of the month. Capability to do so it completely lost.
Wrong. accessTime is multivalued. You just create two entries, one for the first week, one for the third week. They are additive.
We abandoned the term "septet" not because of the bad idea but because this is a confusing word. But we can leave without it as long as I can use complex intervals. After more thinking I would like to reject idea of the negative numbers. Instead we can do the following:
M-on = "on" WSP day-of-the-week WSP "during" WSP day-of-the-month-range day-of-the-month-range = interval 1-31 / last-days last-days = "last" WSP sequential-days sequential-days = single number from the 1-31 range
So if we want to say "Wednesday" of the first and third week of the month I will use:
periodic monthly on Wed during 1-7,15-21
if I want to say Wednesday during last two weeks of the month I will say:
periodic monthly on Wed during last 14
IMO it is cleaner and simpler and allows to express all the notions we want to express.
See above. I really don't want intervals in the M-on grammar, since it makes it extremely difficult to comprehend by mere mortals.
day-of-the-week = interval 1-7 (or Mon-Sun)
range-specifier = "at" WSP HHMM WSP "+" WSP duration-specifier
What is the value and significance of the "+" here? Is it just for readability? Then I would suggest that we replace it with the word "for".
Sure, "for" is fine.
duration-specifier = DDHHMM
DD = "00" to "31"
HH = "00" to "23"
MM = "00" to "59"
interval XX-YY = a comma-separated list of items from XX to YY, or dash-separated ranges. range = dash-separated range
This definition seems incomplete but I do not know how to make it better...
For example, (interval 1-31) 3-7,10,12,15,25-31 with no spaces inside.
Thank you, Dmitri Pal
Sr. Engineering Manager IPA project, Red Hat Inc.
Looking to carve out IT costs? www.redhat.com/carveoutcosts/
Freeipa-devel mailing list Freeipa-devel@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/freeipa-devel
- -- Stephen Gallagher RHCE 804006346421761
Delivering value year after year. Red Hat ranks #1 in value among software vendors. http://www.redhat.com/promo/vendor/
Stephen Gallagher wrote:
On 11/22/2010 12:22 PM, Dmitri Pal wrote
septet-of-the-month = interval 1-5
The septet is not used any more and should be removed, right?
Yeah, I missed removing that. I've deleted it from the page now.
day-of-the-month-interval = interval day-of-the-month
This should be a plain interval from 1-31 with no negatives since it
is used in the M-day rule
I would argue that M-day can be just replaced with
M-day = "day" WSP interval 1-31
I disagree. With this construction, we can say:
accessTime = periodic monthly day -1 at 0900 + 000800
(Read: on the last day of the month from 09:00 to 17:00)
This would be useful for e.g. a regularly-scheduled backup task.
I think negative numbers are confusing and it is hard to decipher. Why we cant say "last"? it will be much cleaner.
Keep in mind that definition of the interval here is as described
below:
interval XX-YY = a comma-separated list of items from XX to YY, or
dash-separated ranges.
For example, (interval 1-31) 3-7,10,12,15,25-31 with no spaces inside.
So definition of the day-of-the-month-interval can be then removed.
Agreed. I've simplified the display of this.
day-of-the-month-range = "between" WSP day-of-the-month WSP "and"
WSP day-of-the-month
day-of-the-month = "-31" to "31"
This notion allows me to enter "between -31 and 3" which does not
make any sense.
I'll clarify with "-31" to "-1" OR "0" to "31".
Also current grammar does not allow me to use ranges which I want to
use here.
Please explain what range you want here. I'm specifically avoiding "intervals" here because it's too complex to understand.
I think it is very simple:
a) I want to use explicit days by number I use this: periodic monthly day 1,3,5,10-15,22 b) I want to use week days during an interval I use this: periodic monthly day on Wed, Sun during 1,3,5,10-15,22
I want to use same interval definition in both cases.
Describing events with arbitrary intervals like this would be better done with the M-day approach.
I want to be able to express "Wednesday" of the first and third week
of the month. Capability to do so it completely lost.
Wrong. accessTime is multivalued. You just create two entries, one for the first week, one for the third week. They are additive.
Yes you can but I think it is not an acceptable solution. I should be able to express it in one rule.
We abandoned the term "septet" not because of the bad idea but
because this is a confusing word. But we can leave without it as long as I can use complex intervals.
After more thinking I would like to reject idea of the negative numbers. Instead we can do the following:
M-on = "on" WSP day-of-the-week WSP "during" WSP day-of-the-month-range day-of-the-month-range = interval 1-31 / last-days last-days = "last" WSP sequential-days sequential-days = single number from the 1-31 range
So if we want to say "Wednesday" of the first and third week of the
month I will use:
periodic monthly on Wed during 1-7,15-21
if I want to say Wednesday during last two weeks of the month I will
say:
periodic monthly on Wed during last 14
IMO it is cleaner and simpler and allows to express all the notions
we want to express.
See above. I really don't want intervals in the M-on grammar, since it makes it extremely difficult to comprehend by mere mortals.
And I really want them there.
day-of-the-week = interval 1-7 (or Mon-Sun)
range-specifier = "at" WSP HHMM WSP "+" WSP duration-specifier
What is the value and significance of the "+" here? Is it just for
readability? Then I would suggest that we replace it with the word "for".
Sure, "for" is fine.
duration-specifier = DDHHMM
DD = "00" to "31"
HH = "00" to "23"
MM = "00" to "59"
interval XX-YY = a comma-separated list of items from XX to YY, or
dash-separated ranges.
range = dash-separated range
This definition seems incomplete but I do not know how to make it
better...
For example, (interval 1-31) 3-7,10,12,15,25-31 with no spaces inside.
Thank you, Dmitri Pal
Sr. Engineering Manager IPA project, Red Hat Inc.
Looking to carve out IT costs? www.redhat.com/carveoutcosts/
Freeipa-devel mailing list Freeipa-devel@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/freeipa-devel
_______________________________________________ sssd-devel mailing list sssd-devel@lists.fedorahosted.org https://fedorahosted.org/mailman/listinfo/sssd-devel
On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Dmitri Pal dpal@redhat.com wrote:
Stephen Gallagher wrote:
On 11/22/2010 12:22 PM, Dmitri Pal wrote
septet-of-the-month = interval 1-5
The septet is not used any more and should be removed, right?
Yeah, I missed removing that. I've deleted it from the page now.
day-of-the-month-interval = interval day-of-the-month
This should be a plain interval from 1-31 with no negatives since it
is used in the M-day rule
I would argue that M-day can be just replaced with
M-day = "day" WSP interval 1-31
I disagree. With this construction, we can say:
accessTime = periodic monthly day -1 at 0900 + 000800
(Read: on the last day of the month from 09:00 to 17:00)
This would be useful for e.g. a regularly-scheduled backup task.
I think negative numbers are confusing and it is hard to decipher. Why we cant say "last"? it will be much cleaner.
As a user, I disagree. While a "last" statement makes sense, a negative number makes perfect sense as well. In fact, a negative number is easier to feed to various scripts and whatnot. I'd actually prefer -1 to denote the last day of the month or whatnot over last.
Keep in mind that definition of the interval here is as described
below:
interval XX-YY = a comma-separated list of items from XX to YY, or
dash-separated ranges.
For example, (interval 1-31) 3-7,10,12,15,25-31 with no spaces inside.
So definition of the day-of-the-month-interval can be then removed.
Agreed. I've simplified the display of this.
day-of-the-month-range = "between" WSP day-of-the-month WSP "and"
WSP day-of-the-month
day-of-the-month = "-31" to "31"
This notion allows me to enter "between -31 and 3" which does not
make any sense.
I'll clarify with "-31" to "-1" OR "0" to "31".
Also current grammar does not allow me to use ranges which I want to
use here.
Please explain what range you want here. I'm specifically avoiding "intervals" here because it's too complex to understand.
I think it is very simple:
a) I want to use explicit days by number I use this: periodic monthly day 1,3,5,10-15,22 b) I want to use week days during an interval I use this: periodic monthly day on Wed, Sun during 1,3,5,10-15,22
I want to use same interval definition in both cases.
Describing events with arbitrary intervals like this would be better done with the M-day approach.
I want to be able to express "Wednesday" of the first and third week
of the month. Capability to do so it completely lost.
Wrong. accessTime is multivalued. You just create two entries, one for the first week, one for the third week. They are additive.
Yes you can but I think it is not an acceptable solution. I should be able to express it in one rule.
While this would be nice, does it really matter? Smaller rules are easier to understand. Keep in mind that the more chances you give admins to misconfigure things through really hairy rules, the more they will misconfigure things.
We abandoned the term "septet" not because of the bad idea but
because this is a confusing word. But we can leave without it as long as I can use complex intervals.
After more thinking I would like to reject idea of the negative numbers. Instead we can do the following:
M-on = "on" WSP day-of-the-week WSP "during" WSP day-of-the-month-range day-of-the-month-range = interval 1-31 / last-days last-days = "last" WSP sequential-days sequential-days = single number from the 1-31 range
So if we want to say "Wednesday" of the first and third week of the
month I will use:
periodic monthly on Wed during 1-7,15-21
if I want to say Wednesday during last two weeks of the month I will
say:
periodic monthly on Wed during last 14
IMO it is cleaner and simpler and allows to express all the notions
we want to express.
See above. I really don't want intervals in the M-on grammar, since it makes it extremely difficult to comprehend by mere mortals.
And I really want them there.
Why? What technical argument necessitates this? I'm inclined to agree with Stephen here. He has a good point.
day-of-the-week = interval 1-7 (or Mon-Sun)
range-specifier = "at" WSP HHMM WSP "+" WSP duration-specifier
What is the value and significance of the "+" here? Is it just for
readability? Then I would suggest that we replace it with the word "for".
Sure, "for" is fine.
duration-specifier = DDHHMM
DD = "00" to "31"
HH = "00" to "23"
MM = "00" to "59"
interval XX-YY = a comma-separated list of items from XX to YY, or
dash-separated ranges.
range = dash-separated range
This definition seems incomplete but I do not know how to make it
better...
For example, (interval 1-31) 3-7,10,12,15,25-31 with no spaces inside.
Thank you, Dmitri Pal
Sr. Engineering Manager IPA project, Red Hat Inc.
Looking to carve out IT costs? www.redhat.com/carveoutcosts/
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-- Thank you, Dmitri Pal
Sr. Engineering Manager IPA project, Red Hat Inc.
Looking to carve out IT costs? www.redhat.com/carveoutcosts/
sssd-devel mailing list sssd-devel@lists.fedorahosted.org https://fedorahosted.org/mailman/listinfo/sssd-devel
periodic monthly on Wed during last 14
IMO it is cleaner and simpler and allows to express all the notions
we want to express.
See above. I really don't want intervals in the M-on grammar, since it makes it extremely difficult to comprehend by mere mortals.
And I really want them there.
Why? What technical argument necessitates this? I'm inclined to agree with Stephen here. He has a good point.
Consistency, same pattern, same construct so less code... Those are pretty significant arguments for me.
There are couple other things that came from a discussion with UXD which I will describe in a different thread.
sssd-devel@lists.fedorahosted.org
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Dmitri Pal -
Endi Sukma Dewata -
Jeff Schroeder -
Simo Sorce -
Stephen Gallagher