criterion change proposal: macOS dual-boot

[Kamil Paral]

Our current macOS (still called OS X) dual boot criterion says:

"The installer must be able to install into free space alongside an
existing OS X installation, install and configure a bootloader that will
boot Fedora."
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_38_Final_Release_Criteria#OS_X_dual...

I suggest renaming  "OS X" to "macOS" in the section title and in the
criterion text. That reflects the name change that Apple did in the past.

I also suggest adding this footnote:
"Footnote: Supported hardware
This criterion only covers Mac devices with an Intel x86_64 processor."

That makes it explicit that we don't support the latest ARM-based M<number>
custom processors, nor the older PowerPC-based devices. I originally wanted
to link to some official Fedora requirements, but we don't seem to have any
(for Macs), so at least a footnote here.

Thoughts?

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Wed, Feb 08, 2023 at 09:55:33AM +0100, Kamil Paral wrote:
>  Our current macOS (still called OS X) dual boot criterion says:
>  
>  "The installer must be able to install into free space alongside an
>  existing OS X installation, install and configure a bootloader that will
>  boot Fedora."
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_38_Final_Release_Criteria#OS_X_dual...
>  
>  I suggest renaming  "OS X" to "macOS" in the section title and in
> the
>  criterion text. That reflects the name change that Apple did in the past.
>  
>  I also suggest adding this footnote:
>  "Footnote: Supported hardware
>  This criterion only covers Mac devices with an Intel x86_64 processor."
>  
>  That makes it explicit that we don't support the latest ARM-based M<number>
>  custom processors, nor the older PowerPC-based devices. I originally wanted
>  to link to some official Fedora requirements, but we don't seem to have any
>  (for Macs), so at least a footnote here.
>  
>  Thoughts? 
+1 to those changes, makes sense. 

I am not sure 100% of intel macs are supported either however. 
I have a macbook here with the touchbar thing and last I tried it,
fedora will boot, but the keyboard doesn't work at all. That was like a
year or so ago tho, so I should try again. ;)

kevin

[Neal Gompa]

On Wed, Feb 8, 2023 at 1:31 PM Kevin Fenzi <kevin(a)scrye.com&gt; wrote:
>  On Wed, Feb 08, 2023 at 09:55:33AM +0100, Kamil Paral wrote:
>  > Our current macOS (still called OS X) dual boot criterion says:
>  >
>  > "The installer must be able to install into free space alongside an
>  > existing OS X installation, install and configure a bootloader that will
>  > boot Fedora."
>  > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_38_Final_Release_Criteria#OS_X_dual...
>  >
>  > I suggest renaming  "OS X" to "macOS" in the section title and
> in the
>  > criterion text. That reflects the name change that Apple did in the past.
>  >
>  > I also suggest adding this footnote:
>  > "Footnote: Supported hardware
>  > This criterion only covers Mac devices with an Intel x86_64 processor."
>  >
>  > That makes it explicit that we don't support the latest ARM-based
> M<number>
>  > custom processors, nor the older PowerPC-based devices. I originally wanted
>  > to link to some official Fedora requirements, but we don't seem to have any
>  > (for Macs), so at least a footnote here.
>  >
>  > Thoughts?
>
>  +1 to those changes, makes sense.
>
>  I am not sure 100% of intel macs are supported either however.
>  I have a macbook here with the touchbar thing and last I tried it,
>  fedora will boot, but the keyboard doesn't work at all. That was like a
>  year or so ago tho, so I should try again. ;)
>  
There is a patch set for the T2 era of Macs, but I don't know if
anyone has tried to shepherd them upstream yet:
https://github.com/t2linux/linux-t2-patches

(I don't have access to one of this era of Macs, so I don't have quite
the ability to vouch for them.)




--
真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!

[Neal Gompa]

On Wed, Feb 8, 2023 at 1:56 PM Neal Gompa <ngompa13(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  On Wed, Feb 8, 2023 at 1:31 PM Kevin Fenzi <kevin(a)scrye.com&gt; wrote:
>  >
>  > On Wed, Feb 08, 2023 at 09:55:33AM +0100, Kamil Paral wrote:
>  > > Our current macOS (still called OS X) dual boot criterion says:
>  > >
>  > > "The installer must be able to install into free space alongside an
>  > > existing OS X installation, install and configure a bootloader that will
>  > > boot Fedora."
>  > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_38_Final_Release_Criteria#OS_X_dual...
>  > >
>  > > I suggest renaming  "OS X" to "macOS" in the section title
> and in the
>  > > criterion text. That reflects the name change that Apple did in the past.
>  > >
>  > > I also suggest adding this footnote:
>  > > "Footnote: Supported hardware
>  > > This criterion only covers Mac devices with an Intel x86_64 processor."
>  > >
>  > > That makes it explicit that we don't support the latest ARM-based
> M<number>
>  > > custom processors, nor the older PowerPC-based devices. I originally wanted
>  > > to link to some official Fedora requirements, but we don't seem to have
> any
>  > > (for Macs), so at least a footnote here.
>  > >
>  > > Thoughts?
>  >
>  > +1 to those changes, makes sense.
>  >
>  > I am not sure 100% of intel macs are supported either however.
>  > I have a macbook here with the touchbar thing and last I tried it,
>  > fedora will boot, but the keyboard doesn't work at all. That was like a
>  > year or so ago tho, so I should try again. ;)
>  >
>
>  There is a patch set for the T2 era of Macs, but I don't know if
>  anyone has tried to shepherd them upstream yet:
>  https://github.com/t2linux/linux-t2-patches
>
>  (I don't have access to one of this era of Macs, so I don't have quite
>  the ability to vouch for them.)
>  
Well, I spoke too soon, look at that:
https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/[e-mail]/



-- 
真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!

[Kamil Paral]

On Wed, Feb 8, 2023 at 7:31 PM Kevin Fenzi <kevin(a)scrye.com&gt; wrote:

>  I am not sure 100% of intel macs are supported either however.
>  I have a macbook here with the touchbar thing and last I tried it,
>  fedora will boot, but the keyboard doesn't work at all. That was like a
>  year or so ago tho, so I should try again. ;)
>  
We have exactly the same experience with a Macbook Pro (with the touch bar)
and F37, tested this week. It seems to be related to the T2 Security Chip,
as mentioned in the lkml post linked by Neal.

I believe we'd use the hardware provision [1] if somebody argued the broken
keyboard/touchpad should be a blocker, as long as at least some Macs work.
This proposed change is just to clarify that only Intel-based Macs are
covered by it, and nothing else.

[1]
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Blocker_Bug_FAQ#What_about_hardware_and_lo...
?

[Scott Beamer]

On 2/8/2023 12:55 AM, Kamil Paral wrote:
>  Our current macOS (still called OS X) dual boot criterion says:
>  
>  "The installer must be able to install into free space alongside an 
>  existing OS X installation, install and configure a bootloader that will 
>  boot Fedora."
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_38_Final_Release_Criteria#OS_X_dual...
> <https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_38_Final_Release_Criteria#OS_X_dual...
>  
>  I suggest renaming  "OS X" to "macOS" in the section title and in the
>
>  criterion text. That reflects the name change that Apple did in the past.
>   
How on earth did OS X get in there?  That name went out of existence in 
2016.

[Luna Jernberg]

+1 both makes sense too me

On 2/8/23, Kamil Paral <kparal(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
> Our current macOS (still called OS X) dual boot criterion says:
>
> "The installer must be able to install into free space alongside an
> existing OS X installation, install and configure a bootloader that will
> boot Fedora."
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_38_Final_Release_Criteria#OS_X_dual...
>
> I suggest renaming  "OS X" to "macOS" in the section title and in
the
> criterion text. That reflects the name change that Apple did in the past.
>
> I also suggest adding this footnote:
> "Footnote: Supported hardware
> This criterion only covers Mac devices with an Intel x86_64 processor."
>
> That makes it explicit that we don't support the latest ARM-based
M<number>
> custom processors, nor the older PowerPC-based devices. I originally wanted
> to link to some official Fedora requirements, but we don't seem to have any
> (for Macs), so at least a footnote here.
>
> Thoughts?
>

[Kamil Paral]

On Wed, Feb 8, 2023 at 9:55 AM Kamil Paral <kparal(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:

>  Our current macOS (still called OS X) dual boot criterion says:
>
>  "The installer must be able to install into free space alongside an
>  existing OS X installation, install and configure a bootloader that will
>  boot Fedora."
>
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_38_Final_Release_Criteria#OS_X_dual...
>
>  I suggest renaming  "OS X" to "macOS" in the section title and in
> the
>  criterion text. That reflects the name change that Apple did in the past.
>
>  I also suggest adding this footnote:
>  "Footnote: Supported hardware
>  This criterion only covers Mac devices with an Intel x86_64 processor."
>
>  That makes it explicit that we don't support the latest ARM-based
>  M<number> custom processors, nor the older PowerPC-based devices. I
>  originally wanted to link to some official Fedora requirements, but we
>  don't seem to have any (for Macs), so at least a footnote here.
>
>  Thoughts?
>
>  
Thanks everyone for feedback, the change is now live:
https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Fedora_38_Final_Release_Crite...

[Luna Jernberg]

(y)

On 2/13/23, Kamil Paral <kparal(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 8, 2023 at 9:55 AM Kamil Paral <kparal(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>
>> Our current macOS (still called OS X) dual boot criterion says:
>>
>> "The installer must be able to install into free space alongside an
>> existing OS X installation, install and configure a bootloader that will
>> boot Fedora."
>>
>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_38_Final_Release_Criteria#OS_X_dual...
>>
>> I suggest renaming  "OS X" to "macOS" in the section title
and in the
>> criterion text. That reflects the name change that Apple did in the past.
>>
>> I also suggest adding this footnote:
>> "Footnote: Supported hardware
>> This criterion only covers Mac devices with an Intel x86_64 processor."
>>
>> That makes it explicit that we don't support the latest ARM-based
>> M<number> custom processors, nor the older PowerPC-based devices. I
>> originally wanted to link to some official Fedora requirements, but we
>> don't seem to have any (for Macs), so at least a footnote here.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>>
> Thanks everyone for feedback, the change is now live:
>
https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Fedora_38_Final_Release_Crite...
>