5:49 p.m.
Soo, where is the weather applet, and others that I might want to view?
Or where/how do I add a applet type thing so weather is viewable at
least on the desktop or something and seen rather easily?
--
Mike Chambers
Madisonville, KY
"The best town on Earth!"
6:02 p.m.
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 17:49, Mike Chambers <mike(a)miketc.net> wrote:
Soo, where is the weather applet, and others that I might want to
view?
Or where/how do I add a applet type thing so weather is viewable at
least on the desktop or something and seen rather easily?
As has been discussed to death all over several mailing lists for the past
six months, panel applets are not allowed in GNOME 3. However, it is in the
plans (possibly for 3.2) to introduce a desktop widget system--or something
like it--akin to desktop widgets in other OS's; it will not be returning in
the form of a panel applet, though. The widget plans just didn't make it in
time to get included in 3.0.
The date/time widget is missing time zones, as well. See the plans here:
https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design/Whiteboards/DateNTime
If you want more information, a simple web-search will turn up all kinds.
6:22 p.m.
On Sun, 2011-02-27 at 18:02 -0600, Jason D. Clinton wrote:
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 17:49, Mike Chambers <mike(a)miketc.net>
wrote:
Soo, where is the weather applet, and others that I might want
to view?
Or where/how do I add a applet type thing so weather is
viewable at
least on the desktop or something and seen rather easily?
As has been discussed to death all over several mailing lists for the
past six months, panel applets are not allowed in GNOME 3. However, it
is in the plans (possibly for 3.2) to introduce a desktop widget
system--or something like it--akin to desktop widgets in other OS's;
it will not be returning in the form of a panel applet, though. The
widget plans just didn't make it in time to get included in 3.0.
The date/time widget is missing time zones, as well. See the plans
here: https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design/Whiteboards/DateNTime
If you want more information, a simple web-search will turn up all
kinds.
Pretty half baked if ask me. There is no "include it at a later date,
or next release" option, as that is just trying to get something out the
door but not include anything else. If applets are going away, no
problem, then include the replacement, in this case, a widget or
whatever, which I am assuming is like Windows is currently using. At
least *they* didn't leave that type stuff out when introduced a new OS.
Oh wait, they *still* have the option of weatherbug, etc to still be
included as applets.
This isn't bout gnome-shell being bad, it's lot better than was when F14
was being developed. This is bout making a total major change to a
major part of the OS, and not including all the options to replace those
no longer being used. If lot of this is gonna be included before F15
goes gold, then good, will patiently wait for it. If we have to wait
for lot of this stuff, then what good is it to push it out the door when
it's not ready? It may be operational and functional to the point of
not crashing, but don't mean it's *ready*. Hell, I couldn't find away
to modify my firewall, change selinux options, or other system type
config things, without having to use CLI.
--
Mike Chambers
Madisonville, KY
"The best town on Earth!"
7:22 p.m.
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 18:22, Mike Chambers <mike(a)miketc.net> wrote:
Pretty half baked if ask me. There is no "include it at a later
date,
or next release" option, as that is just trying to get something out the
door but not include anything else. If applets are going away, no
problem, then include the replacement, in this case, a widget or
whatever, which I am assuming is like Windows is currently using. At
least *they* didn't leave that type stuff out when introduced a new OS.
Oh wait, they *still* have the option of weatherbug, etc to still be
included as applets.
Patches welcome. Alternatively, you could pay someone to write it who
already isn't spending every spare, waking moment working on getting GNOME 3
ready. Your email isn't particularly helpful though.
This isn't bout gnome-shell being bad, it's lot better than was when F14
was being developed. This is bout making a total major change to a
major part of the OS, and not including all the options to replace those
no longer being used. If lot of this is gonna be included before F15
goes gold, then good, will patiently wait for it. If we have to wait
for lot of this stuff, then what good is it to push it out the door when
it's not ready?
It will be considered "ready" without widgets.
7:55 p.m.
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 8:22 PM, Jason D. Clinton <me(a)jasonclinton.com>wrote:
It will be considered "ready" without widgets.
Without widgets, firewall control, vino, any method for user groups/control,
selinux menu, ability to reboot, menu system missing "programming", no
desktop. This is just what came to mind in 10 seconds. Just about anything
that can be used to customize is gonzo.
As an RHEL admin I don't think my only option of "Suspend" is a good choice
for my quad 4-core stack of servers.
I wish the Gnome group well; but my servers, desktops and laptops are not
tablets. I really hate to think that will happen if this stuff ends up in
RHEL7.
8:44 p.m.
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 19:55, Andy Lawrence <dr.diesel(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 8:22 PM, Jason D. Clinton
<me(a)jasonclinton.com>wrote:
>
>
> It will be considered "ready" without widgets.
>
>
Without widgets,
No, without applets and without a new widget system. System tray icons are
still there: in fallback in the old tray, in Shell in the message tray.
firewall control, vino, any method for user groups/control, selinux
menu,
ability to reboot, menu system missing "programming",
All these things work in Shell *and* in fallback mode. In fallback mode they
are pretty much the same as they've always been; in Shell they are in
slightly different locations but still exist. (Firewall and selinux GUI's
are a distro thing.) I'd like to know where you're getting your
misinformation so we can cut that off at the source.
no desktop.
You can turn it on if you care about it that much; the ability hasn't been
removed.
As an RHEL admin I don't think my only option of
"Suspend" is a good choice
for my quad 4-core stack of servers.
...
I wish the Gnome group well; but my servers, desktops and laptops are
not
tablets. I really hate to think that will happen if this stuff ends up in
RHEL7.
No server admin is going to initiate a server reboot from a GUI menu *today*
and they still won't with GNOME 3. And we're *years* away from RHEL7; give
it time and maybe the UI will reach the level of service status maturity
that would be required to make such a GUI reliable enough to use to judge
what to do with a server.
7:57 p.m.
On Sun, 2011-02-27 at 19:22 -0600, Jason D. Clinton wrote:
Patches welcome. Alternatively, you could pay someone to write it who
already isn't spending every spare, waking moment working on getting
GNOME 3 ready. Your email isn't particularly helpful though.
I don't care how hard they are working on it. Never said the developers
weren't doign a good job. I complimented on it was lot better since F14
was being developed. But does NOT mean I have to agree bout pushing it
out the door without some of the bells and whistles to go along with it,
as well as other things that seem to be missing, such as how to
configure firewalls, selinux, configure other things.
If you can't take a criticism, go find something else to do. This is
part of testing, and why comments/bugs/whatever should be welcomed. Do
everything possible to fix it. And if someone thinks something may not
be ready or not done correct, then they are allowed to express that
concern. Maybe it's not warranted, and maybe have no clue what they are
talking bout, but at least they are trying to help make it better. If
something is bad, wrong, or whatever, damn sure not gonna blow smoke up
someone's butt just to make them happy. I don't care how long they been
working on it.
We'll see how ready it is when gold time comes around and what others
are saying bout it.
--
Mike Chambers
Madisonville, KY
"The best town on Earth!"
8:37 p.m.
On Sun, 2011-02-27 at 19:57 -0600, Mike Chambers wrote:
I don't care how hard they are working on it. Never said the
developers
weren't doign a good job. I complimented on it was lot better since F14
was being developed. But does NOT mean I have to agree bout pushing it
out the door without some of the bells and whistles to go along with it,
as well as other things that seem to be missing, such as how to
configure firewalls, selinux, configure other things.
Configuring firewalls and selinux are hardly core desktop functionality,
and not having them will not make GNOME 3 incomplete. You certainly know
full well that you can use s-c-firewall and selinux tools just fine for
that job, anyway, and were just blowing steam...
8:49 p.m.
Holy cow, what incredibly pointless bickering.
Grow up and act like adults, please. All of you. On both sides of the issue.
You're all right.
GNOME 3 is going to be awesome. People are working really hard on it,
and what they're creating is really sweet.
When it ships, it will be missing a lot of functionality that was in
GNOME 2, functionality that people have come to expect and rely on.
People are right to be disappointed about the missing functionality.
People are entitled to hold the opinion that the missing functionality
is significant enough that the GNOME 3 desktop shouldn't ship without it.
The people who want to ship as-is ought to be /listening to what the
people on the other side are saying,/ and asking themselves, "Does the
level of discontent we are seeing indicate that there are enough people
who are going to be upset enough about the missing functionality that we
shouldn't ship without it (i.e., either stay with GNOME 2 or delay the
release of Fedora 15)?"
The people who don't want to ship as-is ought to be /listening to what
the people on the other side are saying,/ and asking themselves, "Is it
perhaps better to ship as-is and cope with the missing functionality
temporarily, until it catches up with GNOME 3, for the sake of getting
the major improvements in GNOME 3 out into the field for people to use
and not incurring the substantial additional cost of either delaying
Fedora 15 or making people do a ton of work to downgrade to GNOME 2?"
You all should be asking these questions in a /mature and civil
fashion,/ not bickering like eight-year-olds. And certainly not telling
people you disagree with to shut up.
Assume good faith.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith>
jik
9:05 p.m.
On Sun, 2011-02-27 at 21:37 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote:
On Sun, 2011-02-27 at 19:57 -0600, Mike Chambers wrote:
> I don't care how hard they are working on it. Never said the developers
> weren't doign a good job. I complimented on it was lot better since F14
> was being developed. But does NOT mean I have to agree bout pushing it
> out the door without some of the bells and whistles to go along with it,
> as well as other things that seem to be missing, such as how to
> configure firewalls, selinux, configure other things.
Configuring firewalls and selinux are hardly core desktop functionality,
and not having them will not make GNOME 3 incomplete. You certainly know
full well that you can use s-c-firewall and selinux tools just fine for
that job, anyway, and were just blowing steam...
Guess we just need to not talk bad bout it at all or criticize it since
everyone is gonna get defensive bout it, or not own up to any mistakes
or problems. Maybe we just all just blow smoke up everyone's butt and
say how awesome it is and it's the best thing since peanut butter?
Look, yawl are doing an awesome job, and especially the ones that do
this for free and volunteer. But it feels like because this wasn't
included in F14, that it now HAS to be included in F15, even though apps
still aren't ready for it yet, or included. If there is few and far
between that say this and don't amount to much, then guess we are the
abnormal. But as I"m seeing the emails, guessing I"m not the only one,
and this has nothing to do with change, and things being different. Has
to do with lots of crap not being included , or not waiting for it to be
ready and just trying to get it out the door or be the first to include
it.
Just my $.02, which may amount to nothing anyway, just a user trying to
give his feedback.
--
Mike Chambers
Madisonville, KY
"The best town on Earth!"
8:29 p.m.
Once upon a time, Jason D. Clinton <me(a)jasonclinton.com> said:
Patches welcome. Alternatively, you could pay someone to write it
who
already isn't spending every spare, waking moment working on getting GNOME 3
ready. Your email isn't particularly helpful though.
Your email isn't particularly helpful either.
How about patches to not include something that isn't done (as far as
replacing useful functionality of the predecessor) as the primary
desktop in Fedora? Would you welcome that? Not everybody can develop,
and not all developers can really work on something like GNOME. That
doesn't mean their input should be ignored or criticized.
I hadn't really had a chance to look at GNOME 3.0 and the GNOME Shell
until the graphics test days this week. Based on that short look, I'll
either skip F15 and wait for further development, or switch to XFCE or
some other environment.
There seem to be a number of things missing from the new environment,
and when the response to pointing out the missing functionality is
essentially "send patches or shut up", my response tends towards "fine,
I'll go somewhere else".
--
Chris Adams <cmadams(a)hiwaay.net>
Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services
I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
8:44 p.m.
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 20:29, Chris Adams <cmadams(a)hiwaay.net> wrote:
Once upon a time, Jason D. Clinton <me(a)jasonclinton.com> said:
> Patches welcome. Alternatively, you could pay someone to write it who
> already isn't spending every spare, waking moment working on getting
GNOME 3
> ready. Your email isn't particularly helpful though.
Your email isn't particularly helpful either.
...
There seem to be a number of things missing from the new
environment,
and when the response to pointing out the missing functionality is
essentially "send patches or shut up", my response tends towards "fine,
I'll go somewhere else".
I appreciate how you clipped out the part where I said it's on the drawing
board but it didn't make it in time. What do you want us to do? Human
cloning is, sadly, illegal, and thus we only have the resources that we
have.
10:11 p.m.
Once upon a time, Jason D. Clinton <me(a)jasonclinton.com> said:
I appreciate how you clipped out the part where I said it's on
the drawing
board but it didn't make it in time. What do you want us to do? Human
cloning is, sadly, illegal, and thus we only have the resources that we
have.
I understand it is on the drawing board. I specifically tried to avoid
any criticism of the developers or their work. I understand that the
major changes are a big job and time is limited.
However, IMHO, GNOME Shell isn't "feature complete" until it is ready to
replace all the common uses of its predecessor, and applets are a major
part of the desktop (again IMHO). If GNOME Shell isn't feature
complete, then it shouldn't be made the default in Fedora 15. New
features are supposed to be roughly feature complete by Alpha, and F15
Alpha is almost here.
It also appears there is a lack of configuration tools (just from
messages on this list about using gconf to change things), which again
would seem to be a regression to me. Lack of a "reboot" button or menu
option is also something that should be addressed.
If a replacement for applets (and porting or reimplementing of the
commonly-used applets) isn't going to be implemented before F15 Alpha,
then IMHO the "fallback" mode should still be the default for F15, per
the GNOME 3 feature page contingency plan.
--
Chris Adams <cmadams(a)hiwaay.net>
Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services
I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
12:17 a.m.
On Sun, 2011-02-27 at 18:22 -0600, Mike Chambers wrote:
not crashing, but don't mean it's *ready*. Hell, I
couldn't find away
to modify my firewall, change selinux options, or other system type
config things, without having to use CLI.
Those tools have never been part of GNOME, they're Fedora tools. They
should still be in the applications list in GNOME 3.
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
http://www.happyassassin.net
9:14 p.m.
On 02/27/2011 06:49 PM, Mike Chambers wrote:
Soo, where is the weather applet, and others that I might want to
view?
Or where/how do I add a applet type thing so weather is viewable at
least on the desktop or something and seen rather easily?
Interesting thread. I'm having fun finding ways to do the same things
under "the shell" as I did with panels. I put all of the missing
widgets on the desktop (most of them anyway, those that allow placing on
the panel) and then just call them up in a gnome-terminal.
"The shell" takes some getting used to and us OldFarts don't take well
to change, but I am finding that the more I use it, the more I
understand the thinking that went into the design and the easier it is
becoming to use.
Just need it to settle down and not break when updates are applied.
Bugs have been submitted.
BTW, what happened to wobbly windows? Was that someone else?
--
Regards,
OldFart
9:48 p.m.
On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 22:14:08 -0500, Clyde E. Kunkel wrote:
On 02/27/2011 06:49 PM, Mike Chambers wrote:
> Soo, where is the weather applet, and others that I might want to
> view?
> Or where/how do I add a applet type thing so weather is viewable at
> least on the desktop or something and seen rather easily?
>
Interesting thread. I'm having fun finding ways to do the same
things
under "the shell" as I did with panels. I put all of the missing
widgets on the desktop (most of them anyway, those that allow placing
on
the panel) and then just call them up in a gnome-terminal.
"The shell" takes some getting used to and us OldFarts don't take
well
to change, but I am finding that the more I use it, the more I
understand the thinking that went into the design and the easier it
is
becoming to use.
Just need it to settle down and not break when updates are applied.
Bugs have been submitted.
BTW, what happened to wobbly windows? Was that someone else?
I think the bit that bugs me the most about gnome-shell is that if
applications have a long title, you can't tell what the apps is. ie
LibreOffice... by however many icons. I have to know what the icon
colour is for what app I want to launch :\
---
Steven Haigh
Email: netwiz(a)crc.id.au
Web: http://www.crc.id.au
Phone: (03) 9001 6090 - 0412 935 897
Fax: (03) 8338 0299
9:50 p.m.
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 21:48, Steven Haigh <netwiz(a)crc.id.au> wrote:
I think the bit that bugs me the most about gnome-shell is that if
applications have a long title, you can't tell what the apps is. ie
LibreOffice... by however many icons. I have to know what the icon
colour is for what app I want to launch :\
That was fixed a few weeks ago.
12:19 a.m.
On Sun, 2011-02-27 at 22:14 -0500, Clyde E. Kunkel wrote:
BTW, what happened to wobbly windows? Was that someone else?
That's part of compiz.
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
http://www.happyassassin.net
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