11:57 p.m.
I think I'm going to adopt Gnome at last. I've never been a regular
Gnome user since 1.x but that might change.
This system was installed as an F8 beta, and upgraded (with some
difficulty) on the weekend to the Development series.
First, I use KDM and on F8 I'd managed to get rid of the Fedora image,
which I do not like, and I had a plain blue background.
With the upgrade it's a lovely grey moire pattern. At least it largely
adopted my settings.
I login using KDE and find that it's using some of my settings, ignoring
others. I use 20 desktops (well, configure 20 desktops but I often use
2/3 or more of them). In the pager, until now I've had them displayed in
three rows. KDE4 thinks I want two.
I use Konsole a lot.I have a white background as I find that easier to
use. KDE4 thinks I want black so I don't need to bother reading it.
However trendy a black panel might seem to others, my senior's eyes find
it ugly. I can't find a way to configure it.
I like a plain coloured desktop background. I'm fairly flexible as to
colour, on my SL5 box it's a bluish gradientI certainly don't want a
grapics images with lots of waves on it, it doesn't look good to me and
I'm sure it's not very compatible with VNC: I use remote desktop quite a
lot for accessing computers, rather than bother with monitors and such.
Right-click, "Configure Desktop" allows me to choose between a single
image or a slideshow. I want neither, just a nice blue or green or
mustard background. In KDE3 I can configure lots of stuff there.
In KDE3 I have left-click pop up the applications menu, and middle-click
produces a window list. I can't see how to set that in KDE4.
I generally have taskbar never group, and only display the current
desktop. Can't see how to get KDE4 to do that.
All that's cosmetic.
I really do not like the new applications menu. I can't find stuff I
want, such as control-centre (so I can fix the settings), Firefox, the
office software I think is there and so on. I've spent an hour or two on it.
I don't want another radically different UI. I regularly switch between
Linux (mostly KDE3, but sometimes Gnome), Windows XP and Server, Apple
OS X. I don't need another UI to track.
--
Cheers
John
-- spambait
1aaaaaaa(a)coco.merseine.nu Z1aaaaaaa(a)coco.merseine.nu
-- Advice
http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375
You cannot reply off-list:-)
3:35 a.m.
On Sun, Feb 24, 2008 at 11:57 PM, John Summerfield
<debian(a)herakles.homelinux.org> wrote:
I think I'm going to adopt Gnome at last. I've never been a
regular
Gnome user since 1.x but that might change.
This system was installed as an F8 beta, and upgraded (with some
difficulty) on the weekend to the Development series.
First, I use KDM and on F8 I'd managed to get rid of the Fedora image,
which I do not like, and I had a plain blue background.
With the upgrade it's a lovely grey moire pattern. At least it largely
adopted my settings.
I login using KDE and find that it's using some of my settings, ignoring
others. I use 20 desktops (well, configure 20 desktops but I often use
2/3 or more of them). In the pager, until now I've had them displayed in
three rows. KDE4 thinks I want two.
I use Konsole a lot.I have a white background as I find that easier to
use. KDE4 thinks I want black so I don't need to bother reading it.
However trendy a black panel might seem to others, my senior's eyes find
it ugly. I can't find a way to configure it.
I like a plain coloured desktop background. I'm fairly flexible as to
colour, on my SL5 box it's a bluish gradientI certainly don't want a
grapics images with lots of waves on it, it doesn't look good to me and
I'm sure it's not very compatible with VNC: I use remote desktop quite a
lot for accessing computers, rather than bother with monitors and such.
Right-click, "Configure Desktop" allows me to choose between a single
image or a slideshow. I want neither, just a nice blue or green or
mustard background. In KDE3 I can configure lots of stuff there.
In KDE3 I have left-click pop up the applications menu, and middle-click
produces a window list. I can't see how to set that in KDE4.
I generally have taskbar never group, and only display the current
desktop. Can't see how to get KDE4 to do that.
All that's cosmetic.
I really do not like the new applications menu. I can't find stuff I
want, such as control-centre (so I can fix the settings), Firefox, the
office software I think is there and so on. I've spent an hour or two on it.
I don't want another radically different UI. I regularly switch between
Linux (mostly KDE3, but sometimes Gnome), Windows XP and Server, Apple
OS X. I don't need another UI to track.
Well, KDE4 does not share config with old kde, and so you should kill
your home .kde before starting. That will give you the basic.
Nevertheless, I have tested KDE4 and agree with you. It is just not
ready. It lacks many features for which I had started using KDE in the
first place. I had given up on Gnome just 8 months ago and adopted
KDE. It will be some time before those functions you are looking for
are implemented. I've asked in the KDE mailing lists and they say
many functions will return, eventually.
In your situation, I think the reasonable thing is to re-install KDE3
and use it as long as you can get it. The reaction to KDE4 has been
pretty cold, and if I were betting, I'd bet that KDE3 packages for
Fedora 9 will materialize from somewhere.
The difficult of finding out more specifics on the KDE4 plans led me
to try out the Enlightenment window manager.
http://www.enlightenment.org. I've tried E over the years, and always
found problems that made me turn back to Gnome. But E Development
Release 17 is very stable and pleasant to use. There is a new RPM
repository (Professor Kriehn's repository
http://optics.csufresno.edu/~kriehn/fedora/repository.html ) and i've
found most everything works well (except the battery module).
If you don't like new UIs, then you won't want to mess with E. But
maybe other KDE4 refugees will give it a try. Inside E, I find it is
useful to run a gnome-panel as well as the E panel because gnome will
help with handling of USB disks and CD roms, and because the battery
module in E is a little off the mark at the moment.
--
Paul E. Johnson
Professor, Political Science
1541 Lilac Lane, Room 504
University of Kansas
5:36 a.m.
On Mon, 2008-02-25 at 03:35 -0600, Paul Johnson wrote:
On Sun, Feb 24, 2008 at 11:57 PM, John Summerfield
<debian(a)herakles.homelinux.org> wrote:
> I think I'm going to adopt Gnome at last. I've never been a regular
> Gnome user since 1.x but that might change.
>
> This system was installed as an F8 beta, and upgraded (with some
> difficulty) on the weekend to the Development series.
>
> First, I use KDM and on F8 I'd managed to get rid of the Fedora image,
> which I do not like, and I had a plain blue background.
>
> With the upgrade it's a lovely grey moire pattern. At least it largely
> adopted my settings.
>
> I login using KDE and find that it's using some of my settings, ignoring
> others. I use 20 desktops (well, configure 20 desktops but I often use
> 2/3 or more of them). In the pager, until now I've had them displayed in
> three rows. KDE4 thinks I want two.
>
> I use Konsole a lot.I have a white background as I find that easier to
> use. KDE4 thinks I want black so I don't need to bother reading it.
>
> However trendy a black panel might seem to others, my senior's eyes find
> it ugly. I can't find a way to configure it.
>
> I like a plain coloured desktop background. I'm fairly flexible as to
> colour, on my SL5 box it's a bluish gradientI certainly don't want a
> grapics images with lots of waves on it, it doesn't look good to me and
> I'm sure it's not very compatible with VNC: I use remote desktop quite a
> lot for accessing computers, rather than bother with monitors and such.
> Right-click, "Configure Desktop" allows me to choose between a single
> image or a slideshow. I want neither, just a nice blue or green or
> mustard background. In KDE3 I can configure lots of stuff there.
>
> In KDE3 I have left-click pop up the applications menu, and middle-click
> produces a window list. I can't see how to set that in KDE4.
>
> I generally have taskbar never group, and only display the current
> desktop. Can't see how to get KDE4 to do that.
>
> All that's cosmetic.
> I really do not like the new applications menu. I can't find stuff I
> want, such as control-centre (so I can fix the settings), Firefox, the
> office software I think is there and so on. I've spent an hour or two on it.
>
> I don't want another radically different UI. I regularly switch between
> Linux (mostly KDE3, but sometimes Gnome), Windows XP and Server, Apple
> OS X. I don't need another UI to track.
>
>
Well, KDE4 does not share config with old kde, and so you should kill
your home .kde before starting. That will give you the basic.
Nevertheless, I have tested KDE4 and agree with you. It is just not
ready. It lacks many features for which I had started using KDE in the
first place.
It's not actually meant to be completely ready. On the other hand, we do
still include KDE3, don't we? If I'm wrong then it's ....not nice
situation for KDE users (I use Gnome anyways :).
KDE4 wont't be bad once it's finished. I tried it from the live media
and was impressed with the artwork and speed. Well, there's not much to
the dekstop environment, is it? :)
--
Lubomir Kundrak (Red Hat Security Response Team)
5:55 a.m.
Lubomir Kundrak wrote:
On Mon, 2008-02-25 at 03:35 -0600, Paul Johnson wrote:
> Nevertheless, I have tested KDE4 and agree with you. It is just not
> ready. It lacks many features for which I had started using KDE in the
> first place.
It's not actually meant to be completely ready. On the other hand, we do
still include KDE3, don't we? If I'm wrong then it's ....not nice
situation for KDE users (I use Gnome anyways :).
I use gnome as well, but no its not parallel installable. The kde3 support that
exists is only libs for applications compiled against them. Getting kde3
wrestled in side by side would be a major undertaking apparently.
KDE4 wont't be bad once it's finished. I tried it from the
live media
and was impressed with the artwork and speed. Well, there's not much to
the dekstop environment, is it? :)
I was also impressed with the speed... seems like gnome is seriously lagging at
the moment in rawhide. Nautilus is painfully slow, but all the menus are as
well (I've got menu icons all turned off because they are so horribly slow to draw).
--
Andrew Farris <lordmorgul(a)gmail.com> www.lordmorgul.net
gpg 0xC99B1DF3 fingerprint CDEC 6FAD BA27 40DF 707E A2E0 F0F6 E622 C99B 1DF3
No one now has, and no one will ever again get, the big picture. - Daniel Geer
---- ----
6:06 a.m.
Lubomir Kundrak wrote:
On Mon, 2008-02-25 at 03:35 -0600, Paul Johnson wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 24, 2008 at 11:57 PM, John Summerfield
> <debian(a)herakles.homelinux.org> wrote:
>> I think I'm going to adopt Gnome at last. I've never been a regular
>> Gnome user since 1.x but that might change.
>>
> Well, KDE4 does not share config with old kde, and so you should kill
> your home .kde before starting. That will give you the basic.
I've never had to do that before, and there is no new .kde directory. It
ought pick up the existing settings and merge them with new defaults,
preferring user's selections wherever possible.
It's done some of that, but then ignored others.
And storing them in a .kde4 directory would make great sense, so it
doesn't bugger stuff up for those who share ~ or who decide to go back.
>
> Nevertheless, I have tested KDE4 and agree with you. It is just not
> ready. It lacks many features for which I had started using KDE in the
> first place.
It's not actually meant to be completely ready. On the other hand, we do
still include KDE3, don't we? If I'm wrong then it's ....not nice
situation for KDE users (I use Gnome anyways :).
I don't expect anything in rawhide to be completely ready:-) though at
this time in the cycle it should be getting there. And I understand the
perils of using new software, I've had - um- four decades to learn that
one. However, I do expect that what's in rawhide (or f9a) now is very
like what we'll get.
KDE3? I didn't do anything special, when I upgraded I just took what
came. If KDE3 still exists
KDE4 wont't be bad once it's finished. I tried it from the live media
and was impressed with the artwork and speed. Well, there's not much to
the dekstop environment, is it? :)
Well I certainly couldn't find much. I think the artwork's target is for
younger people, say 20something +- a bit. I don't think it will be
popular with baby boomers. And I'd expect corporates' views to be
similar to mine, though maybe with some different reasoning. Say too
much retraining for too little gain.
My _real_ work is done on RHEL-clone, and that's safe for a few more
years. However, I am also playing with virtualisation, and for that I
want to sit hear the bleeding edge, at least for the virtualisation tools.
--
Cheers
John
-- spambait
1aaaaaaa(a)coco.merseine.nu Z1aaaaaaa(a)coco.merseine.nu
-- Advice
http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375
You cannot reply off-list:-)
8:42 a.m.
Lubomir Kundrak wrote:
On Mon, 2008-02-25 at 03:35 -0600, Paul Johnson wrote:
> Nevertheless, I have tested KDE4 and agree with you. It is just
not
> ready. It lacks many features for which I had started using KDE in the
> first place.
It's not actually meant to be completely ready. On the other hand, we do
still include KDE3, don't we? If I'm wrong then it's ....not nice
situation for KDE users (I use Gnome anyways :).
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/KDE4FAQ
KDE4 wont't be bad once it's finished.
nod. We've got a few months of polish and developing before f9 is released.
-- Rex
12:59 a.m.
Paul Johnson <pauljohn32 <at> gmail.com> writes:
Well, KDE4 does not share config with old kde, and so you should
kill
your home .kde before starting. That will give you the basic.
This is incorrect and very bad advice!
KDE 4 should work with most KDE 3 configuration just fine, and migrate the rest
using kconf_update. Please file bugs (upstream at bugs.kde.org) for where
settings should be migrated and aren't. (Plasma could probably use some
kconf_update magic to import old Kicker or kdesktop settings. As the code is
completely different, that's not so straightforward.)
But in any case, removing all of .kde is NOT a good idea. The worst that can
happen is that the old settings just get ignored, so deleting all of them
doesn't improve the situation. A lot of settings can be reused in KDE 4 with no
trouble at all.
Kevin Kofler
1:04 a.m.
Rex Dieter <rdieter <at> math.unl.edu> writes:
> KDE4 wont't be bad once it's finished.
nod. We've got a few months of polish and developing before f9 is released.
Where "a few" = 2. ;-) But that means 2 more bugfix releases (4.0.2 is actually
coming very soon), and for Plasma (the main workspace component) also some
feature backports, so yes, the situation will improve for F9 final.
We will also try to get 4.1 into F9 updates once it's ready, it should be
possible, there was already the 3.4->3.5 upgrade in FC4 which went pretty well,
and it will be worth it for 4.0->4.1.
Kevin Kofler
1:18 a.m.
On Tue, 2008-02-26 at 07:04 +0000, Kevin Kofler wrote:
Rex Dieter <rdieter <at> math.unl.edu> writes:
> > KDE4 wont't be bad once it's finished.
>
> nod. We've got a few months of polish and developing before f9 is released.
Where "a few" = 2. ;-) But that means 2 more bugfix releases (4.0.2 is actually
coming very soon), and for Plasma (the main workspace component) also some
feature backports, so yes, the situation will improve for F9 final.
We will also try to get 4.1 into F9 updates once it's ready, it should be
possible, there was already the 3.4->3.5 upgrade in FC4 which went pretty well,
and it will be worth it for 4.0->4.1.
Kevin Kofler
basically the Library's are there within 4.0.x all that needs to be done
is the update to 4.1 when its available , or am i wrong?
--
Regards Greg
1:26 a.m.
John Summerfield <debian <at> herakles.homelinux.org> writes:
I use Konsole a lot.I have a white background as I find that easier
to
use. KDE4 thinks I want black so I don't need to bother reading it.
Konsole has a different way to handle color schemes now, apparently they forgot
to provide some migration (kconf_update) code. :-(
You can set a color scheme in the preferences.
I generally have taskbar never group, and only display the current
desktop. Can't see how to get KDE4 to do that.
That's implemented at least in the trunk (future 4.1), probably also in 4.0.2
(but I haven't checked).
I really do not like the new applications menu. I can't find
stuff I
want, such as control-centre (so I can fix the settings), Firefox, the
office software I think is there and so on. I've spent an hour or two on it.
There's an old-style menu available. In the desktop toolbox (the cashew nut
icon at the top right of the screen), choose "Add applet" and
drag "Applications Launcher Menu" (as opposed to just "Applications
Launcher",
which is the new-style Kickoff) to the panel, and delete the Kickoff button. (I
wonder if that shouldn't be the default. I don't like the new-style Kickoff
menu either.)
Kevin Kofler
5:47 p.m.
On Tue, 2008-02-26 at 07:26 +0000, Kevin Kofler wrote:
John Summerfield <debian <at> herakles.homelinux.org>
writes:
> I use Konsole a lot.I have a white background as I find that easier to
> use. KDE4 thinks I want black so I don't need to bother reading it.
Konsole has a different way to handle color schemes now, apparently they forgot
to provide some migration (kconf_update) code. :-(
You can set a color scheme in the preferences.
> I generally have taskbar never group, and only display the current
> desktop. Can't see how to get KDE4 to do that.
That's implemented at least in the trunk (future 4.1), probably also in 4.0.2
(but I haven't checked).
I fairly regularly have 15 or so fairly cluttered desktops (I'm
wondering whether I should add 2 Gbytes RAM to my Pentium IV system),
limiting to the current window is fairly important.
> I really do not like the new applications menu. I can't find stuff I
> want, such as control-centre (so I can fix the settings), Firefox, the
> office software I think is there and so on. I've spent an hour or two on it.
There's an old-style menu available. In the desktop toolbox (the cashew nut
icon at the top right of the screen), choose "Add applet" and
drag "Applications Launcher Menu" (as opposed to just "Applications
Launcher",
which is the new-style Kickoff) to the panel, and delete the Kickoff button. (I
wonder if that shouldn't be the default. I don't like the new-style Kickoff
menu either.)
Please do make the change. If I had 10,000 users I'd really not want
them to waste hours each trying to figure it out, and while training
might mitigate the problem, it's not a problem I'd want to have.
An objection I've long had with Gnome is that where a thing can be done
in two or more different ways it doesn't do things the established way
(I'm thinking here of the ordering of buttons on dialogues). Now KDE has
invented a new way of presenting a menu; it's different from Windows,
from OS X (which I don't like either), it's different from Gnome and
it's different from earlier KDE.
It _is_ somewhat like our new scanner (which runs Windows), but there
one should be able to navigate the (very basic) menu by finger-presses
on the screen.
--
John
5896
days inactive
5898
days old
10 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
Andrew Farris -
Greg -
John Summerfield -
Kevin Kofler -
Lubomir Kundrak -
Paul Johnson -
Rex Dieter