9:26 a.m.
Why does at-spi(-atk, -core)
want to pull out 80+ pkgs from my F18.
In F16\17 they only removed themselves.
(at-spi, at-spi-core)
--
Regards,
Frank
"Jack of all, fubars"
9:33 a.m.
I guess that would be because of
https://live.gnome.org/ThreePointFive/Features/AccessibilityOnByDefault
On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 4:26 PM, Frank Murphy <frankly3d(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Why does at-spi(-atk, -core)
want to pull out 80+ pkgs from my F18.
In F16\17 they only removed themselves.
(at-spi, at-spi-core)
--
Regards,
Frank
"Jack of all, fubars"
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9:40 a.m.
On 25/10/12 15:33, Sandro Mani wrote:
I guess that would be because of
https://live.gnome.org/ThreePointFive/Features/AccessibilityOnByDefault
How do I get rid of it.
or at least disable it, in a way that doesn't disable the box.
Aside from rpm -e --nodeps, reluctance on my part.
--
Regards,
Frank
"Jack of all, fubars"
9:47 a.m.
Since the gtk3 configure.ac lists a hard dependency on atk, I guess
you can't (unless you can rid the system of gtk3)
On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 4:40 PM, Frank Murphy <frankly3d(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 25/10/12 15:33, Sandro Mani wrote:
>
> I guess that would be because of
> https://live.gnome.org/ThreePointFive/Features/AccessibilityOnByDefault
How do I get rid of it.
or at least disable it, in a way that doesn't disable the box.
Aside from rpm -e --nodeps, reluctance on my part.
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Frank
"Jack of all, fubars"
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10:24 a.m.
----- Original Message -----
On 25/10/12 15:33, Sandro Mani wrote:
> I guess that would be because of
> https://live.gnome.org/ThreePointFive/Features/AccessibilityOnByDefault
How do I get rid of it.
or at least disable it, in a way that doesn't disable the box.
Aside from rpm -e --nodeps, reluctance on my part.
Its not optional anymore.
Lets take a step back - why do you want to remove it ?
11:01 a.m.
----- Original Message -----
On 25/10/12 16:24, Matthias Clasen wrote:
> Its not optional anymore.
>
> Lets take a step back - why do you want to remove it ?
The same reason I remove all other apps, I don't use.
Which is I don't use them.
at-spi* is not an app though. It is a central piece of desktop infrastructure.
3:23 p.m.
On Thu, 2012-10-25 at 20:33 +0100, Frank Murphy wrote:
On 25/10/12 17:01, Matthias Clasen wrote:
> at-spi* is not an app though. It is a central piece of desktop infrastructure.
>
Why?
Because treating those who do need accessibility as second-class
citizens means they inevitably get a second-class experience. It's been
integrated so that "accessibility enabled" is the default state that
everyone tests and develops against.
$ rpm -q --qf=%{size}\\n at-spi2-core at-spi2-atk atk
478463
278812
1123953
1.8M is a pretty modest cost for making the OS accessible to people with
motor, visual, and auditory disabilities. Particularly when doing so
gives your desktop the hooks to make it scriptable. But hey, dislike it
if you want, it's a free internet.
- ajax
4:21 p.m.
On 25/10/12 21:23, Adam Jackson wrote:
On Thu, 2012-10-25 at 20:33 +0100, Frank Murphy wrote:
> On 25/10/12 17:01, Matthias Clasen wrote:
>
>> at-spi* is not an app though. It is a central piece of desktop infrastructure.
>>
>
> Why?
Because treating those who do need accessibility as second-class
citizens means they inevitably get a second-class experience.
I agree, but I don't need it,
Wheres the script to turn if off?
Everone else has to figure that out themselves.
accessibilty.conf has no on=0\false switch.
--
Regards,
Frank
"Jack of all, fubars"
4:49 p.m.
On Thu, 2012-10-25 at 22:21 +0100, Frank Murphy wrote:
I agree, but I don't need it,
Wheres the script to turn if off?
Everone else has to figure that out themselves.
accessibilty.conf has no on=0\false switch.
If the F18 install I just did is any indication, the state it ships in
is as off as it gets.
- ajax
2:33 a.m.
On 25/10/12 22:49, Adam Jackson wrote:
On Thu, 2012-10-25 at 22:21 +0100, Frank Murphy wrote:
> I agree, but I don't need it,
> Wheres the script to turn if off?
> Everone else has to figure that out themselves.
> accessibilty.conf has no on=0\false switch.
If the F18 install I just did is any indication, the state it ships in
is as off as it gets.
- ajax
So you agree, it's unneccessary.
For me to need at-spi*. Point made.
--
Regards,
Frank
"Jack of all, fubars"
8:59 a.m.
Frank Murphy <frankly3d(a)gmail.com> wrote on Fri, 26 Oct 2012 08:33:25 +0100:
So you agree, it's unneccessary.
For me to need at-spi*. Point made.
I think the point was at-spi is part of GTK, but this part is not
something it is reasonable to package separately, such as a language
package or some esoteric locale. The default GTK configuration does not
activate Assistive Technology features, therefore they do not intrude on
a user like you. Indeed, you do not need at-spi.
However, some other users can benefit from AT capabilities, and they
are available to those users with appropriate GTK configuration.
I am confident it is technically possible to create two GTK versions -
one with AT and one without. This would make possible all of the usual
additional complications and costs two versions of a large application
can create, compared to a single version. Bad idea.
It should also be possible to make at-spi a separately installed package,
but I expect the GTK developers decided the cost of tests to determine
whether at-spi was installed was significantly larger than the cost to
include at-spi in the GTK core.
Why, then, is at-spi a separate package at all? If it were quietly
incorporated into other GTK packages, you might be more comfortable. I
suggest the separate at-spi package makes it easier to enhance and test
these Assistive Technologies, without a need to rebuild/replace the
entire GTK system.
If you want GTK, I think your only reasonable course is to accept AT (and
not enable it - the default condition that most users prefer).
If you really have no interest in GTK (and any of the applications that
require it) - I think there are a good number of server or dedicated
system instances that meet this condition - you can consider some
minimal, focused Fedora installation optimized for your situation.
10:06 a.m.
On 26/10/12 14:59, Richard Ryniker wrote:
Frank Murphy <frankly3d(a)gmail.com> wrote on Fri, 26 Oct 2012
08:33:25 +0100:
> So you agree, it's unneccessary.
> For me to need at-spi*. Point made.
I think the point was at-spi is part of GTK, but this part is not
something it is reasonable to package separately,
It was packaged seperatly in F<=17
such as a language
package or some esoteric locale.
Bleachbit takes care of that.
The default GTK configuration does not
activate Assistive Technology features,
How to permamently disable with chattr +1, if required.
I am confident it is technically possible to create two GTK versions
-
one with AT and one without. This would make possible all of the usual
additional complications and costs two versions of a large application
can create, compared to a single version. Bad idea.
Can see the point there.
It should also be possible to make at-spi a separately installed package,
but I expect the GTK developers decided the cost of tests to determine
whether at-spi was installed was significantly larger than the cost to
include at-spi in the GTK core.
It was in f17.
Why, then, is at-spi a separate package at all? If it were quietly
incorporated into other GTK packages, you might be more comfortable. I
suggest the separate at-spi package makes it easier to enhance and test
these Assistive Technologies, without a need to rebuild/replace the
entire GTK system.
If you want GTK, I think your only reasonable course is to accept AT (and
not enable it - the default condition that most users prefer).
No problem with it per say,
except where end-user permanently disable it.
If you really have no interest in GTK (and any of the applications that
require it) - I think there are a good number of server or dedicated
system instances that meet this condition -
I'm not using Gnome, but with cross deps it sneaks in.
you can consider some
minimal, focused Fedora installation optimized for your situation.
Hence the op.
--
Regards,
Frank
"Jack of all, fubars"
10:31 a.m.
On 10/26/12 3:33 AM, Frank Murphy wrote:
On 25/10/12 22:49, Adam Jackson wrote:
> On Thu, 2012-10-25 at 22:21 +0100, Frank Murphy wrote:
>> I agree, but I don't need it,
>> Wheres the script to turn if off?
>> Everone else has to figure that out themselves.
>> accessibilty.conf has no on=0\false switch.
>
> If the F18 install I just did is any indication, the state it ships in
> is as off as it gets.
So you agree, it's unneccessary.
What a dishonest thing to say. I'd appreciate it if you didn't put
words in my mouth, thanks.
- ajax
10:47 a.m.
On 26/10/12 16:31, Adam Jackson wrote:
>> If the F18 install I just did is any indication, the state it
ships in
>> is as off as it gets.
>
> So you agree, it's unneccessary.
What a dishonest thing to say. I'd appreciate it if you didn't put
words in my mouth, thanks.
- ajax
Is it necessary for me or is it not?
Better
--
Regards,
Frank
"Jack of all, fubars"
9:21 a.m.
On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 5:47 PM, Frank Murphy <frankly3d(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 26/10/12 16:31, Adam Jackson wrote:
>>> If the F18 install I just did is any indication, the state it ships in
>>> is as off as it gets.
>>
>>
>> So you agree, it's unneccessary.
>
>
> What a dishonest thing to say. I'd appreciate it if you didn't put
> words in my mouth, thanks.
>
> - ajax
Is it necessary for me or is it not?
Better
Stop wasting everyone's time by trying to solve a non existent problem, thanks.
9:26 a.m.
On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 16:21:59 +0200
drago01 <drago01(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Stop wasting everyone's time by trying to solve a non
existent
problem, thanks.
How is it wasting time.
Already I have found out that,
there was a change beween F17-18.
That at-spi is hooked into atk by default.
That is new, now if you feel trying to work something out,
is wasting time. Bully for you.
--
Regards,
Frank
9:45 a.m.
On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Frank Murphy <frankly3d(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Why does at-spi(-atk, -core)
want to pull out 80+ pkgs from my F18.
In F16\17 they only removed themselves.
(at-spi, at-spi-core)
--
Regards,
Frank
"Jack of all, fubars"
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Looks like gtk3 depends on something provided by at-spi-*
and a lot of stuff needs gtk3 :)
Tim
4193
days inactive
4195
days old
19 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
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Adam Jackson -
drago01 -
Frank Murphy -
Matthias Clasen -
Richard Ryniker -
Sandro Mani -
Tim Lauridsen