new criterion proposal: Window manager functionality

[Kamil Paral]

Related to a recently proposed blocker [1][2], I propose a new release
criterion which would cover such cases. Here it is:

~~~~~~~~~~~~
The desktop environment must work correctly when displaying common
application content - that includes regular application windows, video
output, games and possibly other common content. Regular operations like
windows close/resize/maximize/minimize/fullscreen (when
supported/applicable), windows switching, using windows on virtual
workspaces, and similar common operations must behave as expected.

Footnote - "What does this cover?":
A small number of misbehaving applications is not a violation of this
criterion. The goal of this criterion is to ensure general functionality
for different types of applications and their operations. An example of a
violation would be e.g. if a significant number of QT applications couldn't
be resized (but they should be), or if all Java applications failed to
display any content.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I think this criterion could target F38 Beta Release Criteria [3] or Basic
Release Criteria [4].

Please tell me your thoughts, thanks!
Kamil

[1] https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/blocker-review/issue/1102
[2] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2178167
[3] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_38_Beta_Release_Criteria
[4] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Basic_Release_Criteria

[Neal Gompa]

On Fri, Mar 17, 2023 at 5:48 AM Kamil Paral  wrote:
> Related to a recently proposed blocker [1][2], I propose a new release criterion which would cover such cases. Here it is:
> The desktop environment must work correctly when displaying common application content - that includes regular application windows, video output, games and possibly other common content. Regular operations like windows close/resize/maximize/minimize/fullscreen (when supported/applicable), windows switching, using windows on virtual workspaces, and similar common operations must behave as expected.
>
> Footnote - "What does this cover?":
> A small number of misbehaving applications is not a violation of this criterion. The goal of this criterion is to ensure general functionality for different types of applications and their operations. An example of a violation would be e.g. if a significant number of QT applications couldn't be resized (but they should be), or if all Java applications failed to display any content.
>
> I think this criterion could target F38 Beta Release Criteria [3] or Basic Release Criteria [4].
>
> Please tell me your thoughts, thanks!
> Kamil
>
> [1] https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/blocker-review/issue/1102
> [2] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2178167
> [3] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_38_Beta_Release_Criteria
> [4] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Basic_Release_Criteria

I think this qualifies as Basic Release Criteria, since if the window
management functionality doesn't work, it's basically unusable. We
should also see if it's possible to have some OpenQA tests for this as
well. Maybe some open source game demo loops? Or maybe specially
crafted SDL applications for these use-cases?

--
真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!

[Ben Cotton]

On Fri, Mar 17, 2023 at 5:48 AM Kamil Paral  wrote:
> The desktop environment must work correctly when displaying common application content - that includes regular application windows, video output, games and possibly other common content. Regular operations like windows close/resize/maximize/minimize/fullscreen (when supported/applicable), windows switching, using windows on virtual workspaces, and similar common operations must behave as expected.

Thinking like an editor for a moment, this feels a little redundant in
places. I agree with the general concept, so this is entirely a
presentation issue and I will not push back if you disagree. :But how
about something more like:

The desktop environment must perform regular operations like windows
close/resize/maximize/minimize/fullscreen (when supported/applicable),
windows switching, using windows on virtual workspaces, and similar
common operations as expected. Common application content such as
regular application windows, video output, and games must be displayed
correctly.
> Footnote - "What does this cover?":
> A small number of misbehaving applications is not a violation of this criterion. The goal of this criterion is to ensure general functionality for different types of applications and their operations. An example of a violation would be e.g. if a significant number of QT applications couldn't be resized (but they should be), or if all Java applications failed to display any content.

I'd also add something that makes it clear if it's the application not
displaying the content correctly, that's out of scope for this
criterion. I can't think of a good way to phrase that. But I wouldn't
want someone to think Joe's Fancy Pew Pew Pew Game having a glitchy
display would violate this.
> I think this criterion could target F38 Beta Release Criteria [3] or Basic Release Criteria [4].

Definitely Basic for the same reason as Neal gave.

[Lukas Ruzicka]

I could probably live with both versions, the Ben's one working a little
more straightforward to me.

On Fri, Mar 17, 2023 at 1:59 PM Ben Cotton  wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 17, 2023 at 5:48 AM Kamil Paral  wrote:
> > The desktop environment must work correctly when displaying common
>
> application content - that includes regular application windows, video
> output, games and possibly other common content. Regular operations like
> windows close/resize/maximize/minimize/fullscreen (when
> supported/applicable), windows switching, using windows on virtual
> workspaces, and similar common operations must behave as expected.
>
> Thinking like an editor for a moment, this feels a little redundant in
> places. I agree with the general concept, so this is entirely a
> presentation issue and I will not push back if you disagree. :But how
> about something more like:
>
> The desktop environment must perform regular operations like windows
> close/resize/maximize/minimize/fullscreen (when supported/applicable),
> windows switching, using windows on virtual workspaces, and similar
> common operations as expected. Common application content such as
> regular application windows, video output, and games must be displayed
> correctly.
> > Footnote - "What does this cover?":
> > A small number of misbehaving applications is not a violation of this
>
> criterion. The goal of this criterion is to ensure general functionality
> for different types of applications and their operations. An example of a
> violation would be e.g. if a significant number of QT applications couldn't
> be resized (but they should be), or if all Java applications failed to
> display any content.
>
> I'd also add something that makes it clear if it's the application not
> displaying the content correctly, that's out of scope for this
> criterion. I can't think of a good way to phrase that. But I wouldn't
> want someone to think Joe's Fancy Pew Pew Pew Game having a glitchy
> display would violate this.
> > I think this criterion could target F38 Beta Release Criteria [3] or
>
> Basic Release Criteria [4].
>
> Definitely Basic for the same reason as Neal gave.
>
> --
> Ben Cotton
> He / Him / His
> Fedora Program Manager
> Red Hat
> TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis
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[Kamil Paral]

On Fri, Mar 17, 2023 at 1:59 PM Ben Cotton  wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 17, 2023 at 5:48 AM Kamil Paral  wrote:
> > The desktop environment must work correctly when displaying common
>
> application content - that includes regular application windows, video
> output, games and possibly other common content. Regular operations like
> windows close/resize/maximize/minimize/fullscreen (when
> supported/applicable), windows switching, using windows on virtual
> workspaces, and similar common operations must behave as expected.
>
> Thinking like an editor for a moment, this feels a little redundant in
> places. I agree with the general concept, so this is entirely a
> presentation issue and I will not push back if you disagree. :But how
> about something more like:
>
> The desktop environment must perform regular operations like windows
> close/resize/maximize/minimize/fullscreen (when supported/applicable),
> windows switching, using windows on virtual workspaces, and similar
> common operations as expected. Common application content such as
> regular application windows, video output, and games must be displayed
> correctly.

Thanks, sounds better. I'll propose an updated version with a few more
tweaks mentioned yesterday in the QA meeting.
> > Footnote - "What does this cover?":
> > A small number of misbehaving applications is not a violation of this
>
> criterion. The goal of this criterion is to ensure general functionality
> for different types of applications and their operations. An example of a
> violation would be e.g. if a significant number of QT applications couldn't
> be resized (but they should be), or if all Java applications failed to
> display any content.
>
> I'd also add something that makes it clear if it's the application not
> displaying the content correctly, that's out of scope for this
> criterion. I can't think of a good way to phrase that. But I wouldn't
> want someone to think Joe's Fancy Pew Pew Pew Game having a glitchy
> display would violate this.

Good idea, I'll try to include it.

[Kamil Paral]

Here's a second draft. I took feedback here and also from the QA meeting
[1]. The split between the milestones makes this harder to read and
compare. If you have better ideas on how to do it, please tell me :-)

~~~~~~~~~~~~
== Basic milestone ==
For each release-blocking desktop, the desktop environment must perform
regular operations like windows close/resize/maximize/minimize/fullscreen
(when supported/applicable), windows switching, and similar common
operations as expected. Common application content such as regular
application windows, video output, and games must be displayed correctly.
In this milestone, only pre-installed applications are considered.

Footnote - "What does this cover?":
The goal of this criterion is to ensure general desktop-related
functionality for different types of applications. A small number of
non-working applications (caused by applications themselves or the desktop
environment) is not a violation of this criterion.

== Final milestone ==
For each release-blocking desktop, the desktop environment must perform
regular operations like windows close/resize/maximize/minimize/fullscreen
(when supported/applicable), windows switching, using windows on virtual
workspaces, and similar common operations as expected. Common application
content such as regular application windows, video output, and games must
be displayed correctly.

Footnote - "What does this cover?":
The goal of this criterion is to ensure general desktop-related
functionality for different types of applications. A small number of
non-working applications (caused by applications themselves or the desktop
environment) is not a violation of this criterion. An example of a
violation would be e.g. if a significant number of QT applications couldn't
be resized (but they should be), or if all Java applications failed to
display any content.

Footnote - "Difference from the Basic criterion?":
Compared to the similar [Basic criterion](link), this covers all
applications (including third-party ones), not just pre-installed ones.
More window operations are required to work, e.g. the explicitly-stated
virtual workspaces workflows.
~~~~~~~~~~~~

[1]
https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2023-03-20/fedora-qa.2023-0...

On 3/22/23 03:57, Kamil Paral wrote:
> Here's a second draft. I took feedback here and also from the QA meeting
> [1]. The split between the milestones makes this harder to read and
> compare. If you have better ideas on how to do it, please tell me :-)

The only suggestion I have is for the foot notes under Final. Combine 
the second note into the first. Perhaps something like:

What does this cover?: The goal of this criterion is to ensure general 
desktop-related functionality for different types of applications. A 
small number of on-working applications (caused by applications 
themselves or the desktop environment) is not a violation of this 
criterion. An example of a violation would be if a significant number of 
QT applications couldn't be resized (but they should be), or if all Java 
applications failed to
display any content. This criteria applies to all applications 
(including third-party ones), not just preinstalled ones. More window 
operations are required to work, For example the explicitly stated 
virtual workspaces workflows.

Otherwise this looks fine.

Have a Great Day!

Pat	(tablepc)

[Kamil Paral]

On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 1:17 PM [e-mail] 
wrote:
> On 3/22/23 03:57, Kamil Paral wrote:
> > Here's a second draft. I took feedback here and also from the QA meeting
> > [1]. The split between the milestones makes this harder to read and
> > compare. If you have better ideas on how to do it, please tell me :-)
>
> The only suggestion I have is for the foot notes under Final. Combine
> the second note into the first.

I could do that, but it's helpful to see the information that there's a
Basic criterion as well, right in the footnote title, without expanding it.
But approaches work, though. Thanks for your suggestion.

[Ben Cotton]

On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 3:58 AM Kamil Paral  wrote:
> Here's a second draft. I took feedback here and also from the QA meeting [1]. The split between the milestones makes this harder to read and compare. If you have better ideas on how to do it, please tell me :-)

I like it.

[Kamil Paral]

On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 8:57 AM Kamil Paral  wrote:
> Here's a second draft. I took feedback here and also from the QA meeting
> [1]. The split between the milestones makes this harder to read and
> compare. If you have better ideas on how to do it, please tell me :-)
> == Basic milestone ==
> For each release-blocking desktop, the desktop environment must perform
> regular operations like windows close/resize/maximize/minimize/fullscreen
> (when supported/applicable), windows switching, and similar common
> operations as expected. Common application content such as regular
> application windows, video output, and games must be displayed correctly.
> In this milestone, only pre-installed applications are considered.
>
> Footnote - "What does this cover?":
> The goal of this criterion is to ensure general desktop-related
> functionality for different types of applications. A small number of
> non-working applications (caused by applications themselves or the desktop
> environment) is not a violation of this criterion.
>
> == Final milestone ==
> For each release-blocking desktop, the desktop environment must perform
> regular operations like windows close/resize/maximize/minimize/fullscreen
> (when supported/applicable), windows switching, using windows on virtual
> workspaces, and similar common operations as expected. Common application
> content such as regular application windows, video output, and games must
> be displayed correctly.
>
> Footnote - "What does this cover?":
> The goal of this criterion is to ensure general desktop-related
> functionality for different types of applications. A small number of
> non-working applications (caused by applications themselves or the desktop
> environment) is not a violation of this criterion. An example of a
> violation would be e.g. if a significant number of QT applications couldn't
> be resized (but they should be), or if all Java applications failed to
> display any content.
>
> Footnote - "Difference from the Basic criterion?":
> Compared to the similar [Basic criterion](link), this covers all
> applications (including third-party ones), not just pre-installed ones.
> More window operations are required to work, e.g. the explicitly-stated
> virtual workspaces workflows.
>
> [1]
> https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2023-03-20/fedora-qa.2023-0...

At today's QA meeting, nobody had any further objections. If there's no
additional feedback, I'll push it live tomorrow.

[Kamil Paral]

On Mon, Apr 3, 2023 at 5:34 PM Kamil Paral  wrote:
> At today's QA meeting, nobody had any further objections. If there's no
> additional feedback, I'll push it live tomorrow.

This is now live:
https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Basic_Release_Criteria&type=...
https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Fedora_38_Final_Release_Criteria...

Thanks everyone for your feedback.

[Adam Williamson]

On Tue, 2023-04-04 at 15:21 +0200, Kamil Paral wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 3, 2023 at 5:34 PM Kamil Paral  wrote:
> > At today's QA meeting, nobody had any further objections. If there's no
> > additional feedback, I'll push it live tomorrow.
>
> This is now live:
> https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Basic_Release_Criteria&type=...
> https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Fedora_38_Final_Release_Criteria...

Thanks!

Do you plan to write a test case?

[Kamil Paral]

On Tue, Apr 4, 2023 at 6:05 PM Adam Williamson 
wrote:
> On Tue, 2023-04-04 at 15:21 +0200, Kamil Paral wrote:
> > On Mon, Apr 3, 2023 at 5:34 PM Kamil Paral  wrote:
> > > At today's QA meeting, nobody had any further objections. If there's no
> > > additional feedback, I'll push it live tomorrow.
> >
> > This is now live:
>
> https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Basic_Release_Criteria&type=...
> >
>
> https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Fedora_38_Final_Release_Criteria...
>
> Thanks!
>
> Do you plan to write a test case?

Never propose a criterion, kids, you'll get even more work :-)

There:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_window_manager
https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3ADesktop_test_matrix&a...

[Adam Williamson]

On Thu, 2023-04-06 at 15:59 +0200, Kamil Paral wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 4, 2023 at 6:05 PM Adam Williamson 
> wrote:
> > On Tue, 2023-04-04 at 15:21 +0200, Kamil Paral wrote:
> > > On Mon, Apr 3, 2023 at 5:34 PM Kamil Paral  wrote:
> > > > At today's QA meeting, nobody had any further objections. If there's no
> > > > additional feedback, I'll push it live tomorrow.
> > >
> > > This is now live:
> >
> > https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Basic_Release_Criteria&type=...
> > >
> >
> > https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Fedora_38_Final_Release_Criteria...
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Do you plan to write a test case?
>
> Never propose a criterion, kids, you'll get even more work :-)
>
> There:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_window_manager
> https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3ADesktop_test_matrix&a...

OK, now write the openQA test ;)

Thanks!