trans October 2016

trans@lists.fedoraproject.org

38 participants
31 discussions

Self-Introduction: Sachin S Kamath - Hindi/Malayalam
by Sachin S. Kamath 22 Oct '16

22 Oct '16

Hi, Please find my details below : Name: Sachin S. Kamath Location: Coimbatore, India. Login: skamath Language: Hindi, Malayalam Profession or student status: Student About Me: I am currently pursuing my B.Tech and have been using Fedora for very long. I recently completed by GSoC with the CommOps team and am looking forward to joining the l10n team :) You and the Fedora Project: Currently part of CommOps, fedora-join and freemedia. I'm also looking to join the Ambassador team sometime soon. GPG KEYID and fingerprint: 939D D866 0391 F4A6 7ABB 34E2 8CA2 5699 10ED C863 -- Cheers, Sachin S. Kamath https://www.sachinwrites.xyz

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Albanian Language Coordinator
by Alex Eng 19 Oct '16

19 Oct '16

I've checked Albanian team and there's no longer any coordinator in the team (Besnik has removed himself). To avoid any delay in the team with translation, I've *temporary *put *anxh3l0* and *jonatoni* as coordinator to help to manage the team. Please let me know if any further changes is needed. -- Alex Eng

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Self-Introduction: Zhou Qizhi(周奇志),Chinese
by zhouqizhi 19 Oct '16

19 Oct '16

Name: Zhou Qizhi Location: Beijing,China Login: zhouqz Language: Chinese Profession: Java Developer About Me: I have been a Java developer for three years after I graduated from college at 2013, I use Ubuntu as my desktop environment in office, and use LinuxMint at home, I like them and hope to be one of the contributors to make them better. Me and the Fedora Project: I used to be a user of Fedora and participated in the Fedora Release Party F19 Beijing, I would like to do something to help people know and use Linux and Fedora better, and have decided to start with the L10N project, as my mentor suggested. GPG KEYID and fingerprint: pub 2048R/DC9F574F 2016-10-18 Key fingerprint = B1AB 56C2 3B6F 128B 74F0 0F0C FA77 11B3 DC9F 574F uid 周奇志 (Zhou Qizhi) <zhouqz(a)yahoo.com> sub 2048R/FE5E020B 2016-10-18

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Can not accept mailing list subscription
by Misha S. 18 Oct '16

18 Oct '16

Hello, I am trying to accept a subscription request for trans-ru@, but I keep seeing an error message: “The request could not be moderated: A server error occurred. Please contact the administrator.” Could someone please check? Thanks! Misha https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Misha English / Español / Italiano / Русский

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Re: Hebrew translation plural form change request
by ניב באר 18 Oct '16

18 Oct '16

Just to make sure, We are requesting to add the rule for dual form.. the other rule can be ignored. 0 : n==1 : singular form 1 : n==0||n >2 :plural form 2 : n==2 : dual form We do not actually need the many form for the translation to be correct. (Assuming putting dual form on 2 can mainyain some bacward compatibility) Thanks, Niv בתאריך 14 בספט׳ 2016 09:52,‏ "ניב באר" <bloop93(a)gmail.com> כתב: >Thanks for the suggestion, take a quick look at the cardinal part, it shows exactly what we're talking about so CLDR has this rule already :) I guess you are referring to the dual rule.. the rule for the many form there is incorrect[1] and should be fixed (at CLDR at least, we do not really need it for translations) [1]http://hebrew-academy.org.il/topic/hahlatot/grammardecisions/terminology- ordinance/4-3-%d7%94%d7%a9%d7%99%d7%9e%d7%95%d7%a9-%d7%91% d7%a9%d7%9d-%d7%94%d7%9e%d7%a1%d7%a4%d7%a8/#target-3363 (it's in hebrew, sorry) 2016-09-14 9:37 GMT+03:00 Yaron Shahrabani <sh.yaron(a)gmail.com>: > Hi Yuri! > Thanks for the suggestion, take a quick look at the cardinal part, it > shows exactly what we're talking about so CLDR has this rule already :) > > Yaron Shahrabani > > <DevOps - Hebrew translator> > > > On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 9:05 AM, Yuri Chornoivan <yurchor(a)ukr.net> wrote: > >> середа, 14-вер-2016 08:56:32 ניב באר написано: >> > Thank you, >> > forth form isn't quiet correct >> > >> > The actual hebrew plural forms are the following: >> > >> > one object - use singular form >> > >> > two objects - use dual form for specific cases, otherwise use plural >> form >> > >> > 3-10 objects - use plural form >> > >> > none or more than 10 objects - can use plural form or many form >> (optional) >> > >> > >> > also, with both singular and dual form the number should not be written >> > (anaconda, for example, does not aloow it). >> > >> > >> > generally, the many form isn't required but it could be nice to have >> (and >> > prefered when speaking of years), >> > >> > it is not widely use and we can do without him (using the regular plural >> > form will sound natural as well). >> > >> > >> > In most cases, the existing plural form can be copied into the other >> form >> > (or two). >> > >> > >> > I will also try to see if I can find a source in english who can >> support it >> > (I could only find in hebrew and not all in one place). >> > >> > >> > I can review the translations on Zanata and I will try to contact hebrew >> > translators of another projects >> > >> > >> > Thanks again, >> > Niv >> >> Hi, >> >> Just 2 cents+ >> >> It is worth to inspect (and change if needed) the plural rules on CLDR. >> >> http://www.unicode.org/cldr/charts/29/supplemental/language_ >> plural_rules.html#he >> >> These rules are widely used in hardcoding the plural forms for many >> projects >> including FOSS. >> >> Hope this helps. >> >> Best regards, >> Yuri >> > >> > 2016-09-14 2:41 GMT+03:00 Rafal Luzynski <digitalfreak(a)lingonborough.co >> m>: >> > > 13.09.2016 10:06 ניב באר <bloop93(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > > > Hello, >> > > > The plural form for hebrew is currently set as: >> > > > nplurals=2; plural=(n != 1); >> > > > >> > > > Altough plurals form fits in most cases, >> > > > we do have dual form in hebrew which is mostly used when speaking >> about >> > > > >> > > > time[1]. >> > > > >> > > > which makes the use of plural form in those cases seems unnatural. >> > > > >> > > > I would like to update hebrew plural form to be: >> > > > nplurals=3; plural=(n==1) ? 0 : 1 + (n==2); >> > > >> > > This formula looks tricky and I can't confirm it will always work >> > > as expected. Also it must be less obfuscated for other human readers. >> > > >> > > I have grepped over the source code of those several projects >> > > from GNOME whose source code I apparently have on my computer >> > > and all of them use the simple nplurals=2 system in Hebrew >> > > >> > > except GNOME Software [2] which uses this expression: >> > > nplurals=3; plural=n==1 ? 0 : (n>2||n==0) ? 1 : 2; >> > > >> > > Our reference source should be CLDR [3] which mentions >> > > four forms for Hebrew: >> > > >> > > - one (n==1); >> > > - two (n==2); >> > > - many: dividable by 10 except 10 itself (n%10==0 && n>10) >> > > - other (including 0 and 10). >> > > >> > > Can you confirm you need this fourth form for the numbers >> > > dividable by 10? >> > > >> > > Otherwise, it seems you have spotted a bug in Hebrew language >> > > configuration. IMHO the plural rules for Hebrew should be >> > > changed to reflect all possible cases and you will have to live >> > > with the fact that in most cases two or three forms will be >> > > identical. >> > > >> > > > or at least to be able to specify a custom plural form to a >> project on >> > > > >> > > > Zanata. >> > > >> > > I don't know if it's possible to change the plural rules for >> > > a single project but indeed it should be acceptable if the >> > > problem is so rare that it actually appears only in few projects. >> > > Otherwise it should be changed globally, for all projects >> > > in Zanata. Of course, it will break your existing translations >> > > so you will have to review them all. Sounds overwhelming but >> > > the satisfaction when you see all plural forms displayed correctly >> > > in your computer is priceless. >> > > >> > > Also note that I know nothing about Hebrew language so I can't >> > > confirm what plural rules are correct and whether they should be >> > > applied globally or exceptionally for just few projects. I think >> > > these rules should be confirmed by other Hebrew speaking people >> > > and by references to some external and reliable sources like >> > > CLDR or ISO documents or a national language regulator. >> > > >> > > Best regards, >> > > >> > > Rafal >> > > >> > > > Thanks, >> > > > Niv Baehr >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_(grammatical_number) >> > > >> > > #Modern_Hebrew >> > > >> > > [2] https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-software/tree/po/he.po >> > > [3] >> > > http://www.unicode.org/cldr/charts/29/supplemental/ >> > > language_plural_rules.html >> -- >> trans mailing list >> trans(a)lists.fedoraproject.org >> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/trans@lists.fedoraproject.org >> > > > -- > trans mailing list > trans(a)lists.fedoraproject.org > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/trans@lists.fedoraproject.org >

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Self-introduction
by Daniel López 18 Oct '16

18 Oct '16

Name: Edgar López Location: Mexico City, Mexico Language: Spanish Profession: 3d designer About me: I'm a Medicine Student and 3d designer who believes in the free exchange of kndowledge for ALL. I want to learn more about free/open source software developed by the Fedora Project (I have been using Fedora 24 just for 4 months after leaving a non Unix based OS) and help others to understand it better.

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Self-Introduction: Joseph Ramos (spanish)
by Jardix22 16 Oct '16

16 Oct '16

Name: Joseph Ramos Location: Puno, Peru Language: Spanish Profession: Developer About me: I'm a front-end developer who believe that we can change the world helping each other people.

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Fwd: Albanian Language Coordinator
by Besnik Bleta 16 Oct '16

16 Oct '16

Hello, First, I’d like to have this archived in the right place, which should have been done be the sender, rather than contacting individuals via their personal email addresses. I’ll comment there. Best, Besnik -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Albanian Language Coordinator Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2016 18:09:59 +0200 From: Jona Azizaj <jonaazizaj(a)gmail.com> To: Pravin Satpute <pravin.d.s(a)gmail.com>, Noriko Mizumoto <noriko(a)fedoraproject.org>, Alex Eng <aeng(a)redhat.com>, Jean-Baptiste <jean-baptiste(a)holcroft.fr>, Justin W. Flory <jflory7(a)gmail.com>, Piotr Drąg <piotrdrag(a)gmail.com>, Zoltan Hoppar <hopparz(a)gmail.com>, Parag Nemade <pnemade(a)redhat.com> CC: Anxhelo Lushka <an_xhelo(a)hotmail.com>, Anxhela Hyseni <anxhela.hyseni1996(a)gmail.com>, Giannis Konstantinidis <giannis(a)konstantinidis.cc>, board(a)openlabs.cc <board(a)openlabs.cc>, ajkuna.mujo2(a)hotmail.com, Besnik Bleta <besnik(a)programeshqip.org> Hello all, As I have informed you before, regarding our Zanata albanian coordinator, 6 months ago, when we were working hard on translating, we spoke with Besnik (Anxhelo was the one that contacted him) on trans-sq mailing list. He proposed, and we agreed, that in a 6 month period of time we would pick the most active person in localization and in the end we would create a poll to agree whom would be the new coordinator. Now that 6 months passed by, we contacted him again on how we would proceed and his answer was that we were not active enough and we weren't using the mailing list. (Attached you will find the email in Albanian where we contacted Besnik). We found this really disappointing and demotivating on continuing contributing in localization, one of the areas that we consider as a high priority for our community. Please find below a list of activities that are conducted from some of the most active members of the community: Attached you will find a text file consisting of translation sprints results and a list of Fedora events we have organized can be found documented here [1]. As a result of the non consistency of Besnik's behavior many members are likely not to continue contributing since none of their translations have not been approved for months. Sadly we are in a situation where there are many active contributors, the community is growing in many areas, except localization where some are pulled off by the fact that the strings are not being approved. In addition, Besnik has claimed that we do not use the mailing list which doesn't mean that we are not translating. Actually we actively use our hackerspace mailing list a lot, which is well documented here [2]. We do this because our activities are held in a physical hackerspace due to the effectiveness of the face-to-face communication. If this situation and behavior continues our community members will probably stop contributing in localization because: * People feel demotivated by the actual coordinator not approving their translations * We have invited Besnik to join our activities in person but he has not joined them. We strongly believe that meeting in person always helps in this situation, but unfortunately he has not joined us. To be clear, our purpose is not to remove Besnik, but to add other coordinators, whom should be more active and approve the translations (if they are correct). We hope our request to have more coordinators for translations (which will result in approving the translations faster) gets approved and contributors don't get demotivated. Cheers, Jona [1] https://openlabs.cc/tag/fedora/ [2] http://bit.ly/2eimuZZ --- Jona Azizaj <Fedora Ambassador> http://jona.azizaj.com https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jonatoni GPG Public Key: 6FDA5BDB

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Self-Introduction: Yesica Ramírez Estrella (Spanish)
by Yésica Magaly Ramírez Estrella 15 Oct '16

15 Oct '16

Name: Yesica Ramírez Estrella Location: Puno, Peru Login: yesmagaly Language: Spanish Profession: Developer About me: I'm a junior developer who likes web development and I want to be of Fedora Comunity. Me and the Fedora Project: I would like to help with Spanish translation.

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Fwd: Why is RedHat using Piwik to track contributors?
by Alex Eng 13 Oct '16

13 Oct '16

Hi guys, If you're unaware, there has been a discussion about Zanata terms ( http://zanata.org/terms) in http://fedora.zanata.org does not match with Fedora policy (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/PrivacyPolicy) We are happy to update the terms link (bottom of http://fedora.zanata.org) to the fedora policy page if that is agreed by everyone. Also, http://fedora.zanata.org has been gathering visitor statistics in the backend (Piwik). It only gather page view data, not personal information. The data valueable to Zanata team to study and understand the user workflow and behaviour that will incooperate into our design work. Does anyone have any concern over this? Or wish it to be removed from fedora.zanata.org? --------------------------------------------- Alex Eng Senior Software Engineer Globalisation Tools Engineering DID: +61 3514 8262 <callto:+61+3514+8262> Mobile: +614 2335 3457 <callto:+614+2335+3457> Red Hat, Asia-Pacific Pty Ltd Level 1, 193 North Quay Brisbane 4000 Office: +61 7 3514 8100 <callto:+61+7+3514+8100> Fax: +61 7 3514 8199 <callto:+61+7+3514+8199> Website: www.redhat.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Carlos Munoz <camunoz(a)redhat.com> Date: Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 11:03 PM Subject: Re: Why is RedHat using Piwik to track contributors? To: Fedora Infrastructure <infrastructure(a)lists.fedoraproject.org> Hi Jean-Baptiste, please see my comments inline. Regards, Carlos. On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Jean-Baptiste Holcroft < jean-baptiste(a)holcroft.fr> wrote: > Le 2016-10-11 08:04, Alex Eng a écrit : > >> Jean-Baptise, >> >> I'm not sure what you mean by "create policy page"? Do we have policy >> page that I'm not aware of? >> >> and remove it from fedora.zanata.org [2]? Remove which page from >> Zanata? >> > > > English native doing that to evade the subject... > Not sure what is being implied here, but Alex is genuinely not aware of what you meant here, and neither was I until you clarified it was the Zanata terms of use page, so thank you for said clarification. > > Let's rewrite it : > Well, thank you for your answer: > * can you create a dedicated Zanata Policy page ? > We already did this, and it's the one you see at the moment. You however pointed out it doesn't align with Fedora policy. It can be changed by any admin in the system when a new url is provided. We have admin rights in the system, but we'd prefer if these changes were done by a Fedora l10n admin (e.g. Noriko) as this is their responsibility and they have stated they prefer all changes to go through them. I also imagine there needs to be some discussion about any such changes with the community as a whole. > * can you remove Piwiki script from Fedora.Zanata.org to respect Fedora > Policy ? > Same thing here. It can be done, but please have one of the l10n admins take care of the change. In this particular case I would really urge the community to consider keeping the setting as it provides the development team valuable information about how Zanata is being used. But alas if this goes against policy then we will just have to make due. > > > To answer your question, I'm surprised you do not know you have a terms > page using RedHat policy page: http://zanata.org/terms > Let me quote the content: > > 12. Privacy Statement >> Red Hat agrees to use your personal information in accordance with the >> Privacy Policy published at http://www.redhat.com/legal/pr >> ivacy_statement.html (the "Red Hat Privacy Policy") and the Terms. The >> Red Hat Privacy Policy is hereby incorporated by reference into these >> Terms. In the event of any conflict between these Terms and the Red Hat >> Privacy Policy, the Red Hat Privacy Policy shall control. >> > > As far as I understand Red Hat Privacy Policy, it doesn't respect it > either. It is done for a website browsing usage and not for collaborative > tool. > > > I'm sad to notice mailing list guidelines are not respected either : > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > Please respect https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/PrivacyPolicy I'm curious as to which part of the mailing list guidelines you feel is not being respected by Zanata. Would you care to elaborate? > > > Values are important, it's what make us work together, gathering every > information we can about user is not something we should encourage. > Agreed on values. We are happy to help wherever we can, but please understand Zanata is in no way attempting to 'gather every information' about its users. Whatever information it tracks is akin to system logs, to be used to analyze and improve the platform. But like I said before, the community can elect to opt out of this, and the admins have the capability to do it. > > > Please notice it hurt to see you set the statistics you want as a > developpement team, while you do not set the statistics we need to help > Language Coordination in Zanata. Not sure I understand your point here. Do you wish to see some of the piwik statistics which could help with language coordination? If so, we would be happy to share those with the community. Or, are you talking about new features in Zanata for the same purpose? Furthermore, should we move this thread to the l10n mailing list and out of the Infra one? > > _______________________________________________ > infrastructure mailing list -- infrastructure(a)lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to infrastructure-leave(a)lists.fed > oraproject.org > _______________________________________________ infrastructure mailing list -- infrastructure(a)lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to infrastructure-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org

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trans October 2016