Re: Guidelines and objectives about Fedora tools and translation
by Jean-Baptiste
Le 07/03/2016 09:27, Robert Mayr a écrit :
> 2016-03-06 18:06 GMT+01:00 Jean-Baptiste <jean-baptiste(a)holcroft.fr
> <mailto:jean-baptiste@holcroft.fr>>:
>
> Hi there,
>
> [snip]
>
> As a new contributor, I was a bit confused about the many websites
> and tools of Fedora, because some are homemade others where use as
> SaaS solutions and didn't really know how to navigate from one to
> another, nor understood if translation was missing because the
> software didn't support it or because of the lack contributors.
>
> I made a list of every websites I found :
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/G11N/List_of_Fedora_sites
>
>
> Some of these websites are outdated, others are missing in your list.
> Others are not maintained by the websites team, but generally speaking
> when it comes to I18n we should clearly split apps and websites, as
> these are different groups and workflows.
>
> The status is not very good :
> * some websites are not translated (ex : developer.fedora)
>
>
> developer.fp.o is kind of "hosted" by the websites team, and we had some
> discussions in the past with its maintainers if we want to include I18n
> or not. It is still a very new project, and we agreed to not do any
> translation for now as soon as we don't know how much this webapp is
> used by developers. Probably we can add translation markups later, but
> it is not a priority in this specifical moment.
> Another website we do not translate is fudcon.fp.o, which is rather old
> and we will probably drop/rewrite/update it soon, also with I18n. All
> the other websites *are* set up for I18n, also our latest ones, which are:
> * flocktofedora.org <http://flocktofedora.org>
> * budget.fedoraprojedct.org <http://budget.fedoraprojedct.org>
> You will find the sources on zanata, but they are still closed, because
> we don't have final strings for these websites. I will open them soon
> and send out an update to the trans ML.
>
> * many sites don't have the Fedmenu button to help navigation
>
>
> I don't understand what you mean here, navigation is easy using the
> footer, within websites. We don't link to apps, this is not a function
> we need on the websites. If you like to have links to all our apps, you
> can go to apps.fedoraproject.org <http://apps.fedoraproject.org>.
>
> * most of tools are not translated
>
>
> This is an Infra topic, but let me throw in another question: are we
> able to translate the changing contents of all our apps?
>
>
> It was pretty much expected, but now, how do we fix this ?
>
>
> My answer actually is: by translating what we have :)
> Just an example: our main website (getfedora.org <http://getfedora.org>)
> is 100% translated by only 6 local teams! Only 14 local teams reached
> more than 80%.
> Spins.fp.o is even worse, only 3 teams reached 100% and only 7 teams
> have translated more than 80%, only 8 teams more than 70%.
> Personally I think we should first concentrate the activity towards the
> strings we have, and they are on the main websites. Otherwise we would
> add more and more strings, but if translation teams already have
> difficulties with the actual websites, it would become worse.
> Unfortunately L10n teams have so much to translate (docs, software, web,
> apps...) we probably need more hands to get the work done.
>
>
> The work is huge, so we need to make a little bit of planning.
> What are the guidlines we would like to have for websites and tools ?
>
>
> Here I can give just a personal opinion. I would make a list of the main
> websites and put them on a TODO list for every new release cycle; that
> means other stuff would get a lower priority. Some teams already do that
> internally, but it's a good practice if you would say: first of all
> let's get getfedora.org <http://getfedora.org>, spins.fp.o, labs.fp.o
> and arm.fp.o translated, even start.fp.o as the default website for
> Firefox and Chromium is important IMHO.
> This kind of setting priorities to all L10n members could help to go
> into the right direction.
>
>
> We also have to agree between trans/infra/website teams and be
> realistic : none of our groups can handle and objective like 100% of
> websites and tools have to be internationalized and translated.
>
>
> True.
>
>
> Anyone would like to help us writing and then discussing this
> between #trans, #infra and #websites ?
>
> Subjects are :
> * global guidelines
> * short term objectives (2016)
> * mid-term objectives (2017)
>
>
> Hopefully we have someone from the websites team who can help you here,
> I have too many things on my plate actually.
>
> Sincerely,
> --
> Jean-Baptiste Holcroft
>
>
> Thanks for taking care of this.
> Best.
>
> --
> Robert Mayr
> (robyduck)
Hi,
Thanks for your complete answer.
I understand there is two categories :
* website : public facing content with end-user content
* apps : tools used by the community
There also is a "grey zone", where we have the tools that exist to try
to reduce the gap between them : the "community enablers".
I would include in that last category sites like fedora-hubs,
whatcanidoforfedora, #contents Apps ?, others ?
As I didn't know where to start, I haven't found existing listings so I
started with listing everything. It's a temporary work. I won't mind
trashing it.
I would start the three items in that way:
* define what is a website, a community tool (apps) and the grey zone
(community enabler), and explain what is aim to be translated or not,
and why
* list websites, tell current statuts (some are in progress or in test
phase as you said), tell current translation progress
* short term objectives (2016)
* improve the number of languages with 100% on websites
* agree and prepare community enabler tools for localization
* mid-term objectives (2017)
* improve the number of languages with 100% on websites
* improve the number of languages with 100% on community enabler tools
Sincerely,
--
Jean-Baptiste Holcroft
8 years, 1 month
Zanata improvements, L10n engagement and testing
by Baadur Jobava
I would like to detail some suggestions I had for Zanata improvements,
engagement for translators and testing.
1. Zanata is missing terminology control. This is a feature already in
Transifex, Pootle and present in most proprietary translation tools out
there.
Terminology control means "glossary", but also aspects of something people
call "controlled language".
In Transifex, each project has an attached terminology, with translation
reviewers being able to update the terminology. My workflow there is a
little clunky, but workable:
I keep at the same time two tabs open, one with Terminology definitions,
where I can add or adjust terms, and a second tab with the translation
interface itself. As I translate, especially a new project, I add new terms
to the list. (An improvement may be to be able to adjust terminology and
translation from the same window)
Setting terminology as translation progresses helps maintain consistency
even if there is just one translator working on it. Unlike the automated
translation memory, terminology provides 'intent' and highlights the
important terms.
As people translate, the terminology words get highlighted, with
suggestions for each one. In Transifex there is inline highlighting
(underlining) and a contextual bubble appears when you hover across the
highlighted term. In Pootle the terminology terms appear to the side in a
separate rectangle, along with their recommended translation and comments.
Other than simply a glossary, terminology control should also highlight
'terminology violations' and have a filter to select only for these strings.
As people add new terms to the terminology, the English variants get all
added to a global list, so if a Japanese reviewer adds a new term, that one
is also available to the French locale (and every other one) -- a good
feature of Transifex. Now, a tool like Pootle only has locale-specific
terms list, so each locale has to figure out their own terminology list. I
prefer the Transifex way.
Something that doesn't exist, but may help: 'hard' and 'soft' terminology.
Hard terms may be those specific to the application or technical terms with
strict interpretation, while 'soft' ones may be regular language which
needs to be kept consistent, but not critical or with a special meaning for
that project. Hard terms may be global, while soft ones may be
locale-specific.
more nice things to have:
2. Language-specific dashboards for Zanata
for each language, from the Language page (eg.
https://fedora.zanata.org/language/view/fr ):
- latest changed projects, number of strings for each project and who did
them
- a link to a diff-style list with 'before', 'after', 'translator' for the
last changed strings
3. Diff tools for Zanata: a way to inspect the state of the strings in
'before' and 'after' style picking two arbitrary dates, with github-like
diff coloring for the changes and authors for each string (or substring)
changed.
4. Feature improvement: an option to automatically import strings to a
branch from another branch (for example, from 'development' to F24) for
identical strings. Maybe an option to import identical translated strings
from all other projects.
5. L10n engagement:
- mass-email people who contributed to Fedora from Transifex who have not
yet registered for Zanata (not yet joined a language group)
- mass-email translation contributors, even those not yet on the mailing
lists about the Fedora schedule and deadlines and maybe another mail about
vFAD or translation test day
6. Automatic UI testing
I was wondering if it were possible to set up some kind of automation that
can:
Walk the UI of a given project and take screenshots progressively of the
interface, menus, submenus, windows and contextuals. I understand Gnome
already has a web tool where you can manually inspect the menus, but
something that generates a flat list of screenshots can help people go
through the UI in a faster way. This would be toolkit-specific, but may be
worth investigating if possible.
That is all, thanks!
Jobava
8 years, 1 month
New list member | self-introduction | joining trans & trans-de
by Florian Heiser
Dear all,
my name is Florian, and I am looking forward to joining the German trans
team.
I am not a programmer/coder/hacker - I am just a regular GNU Linux
enthusiast using Fedora as end-user for my everyday life.
Professionally, I work as an Engineer for Environmental Technologies,
specialized in water and waste water treatment, and I am currently
located on the East Coast in the U.S.
I recently came across a bug in a translation that I wanted to correct,
which led me to join trans and trans-de mailing list and I am hoping to
contribute to the amazing Fedora project this way. (Since I am not able
to contribute to code or as package maintainer.)
Looking forward to working with you!
Cheers,
Flo
8 years, 1 month
Meeting minutes - 2016-03-09
by pravin.d.s＠gmail.com
Hi All,
We had good meeting today. Following are minutes.
====================================
#fedora-meeting: g11n (l10n focused)
====================================
Meeting started by pravins at 08:30:06 UTC. The full logs are available
athttps://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2016-03-09/g11n_(l10n_...
.
Meeting summary
---------------
* agenda and roll call (pravins, 08:30:13)
* LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2016-03-09
(pravins, 08:30:14)
* Upcoming schedule (pravins, 08:31:35)
* LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/24/Schedule
(pravins, 08:31:35)
* 2016-03-22 Alpha Release (pravins, 08:32:13)
* 2016-04-05 Software Translation Deadline (pravins, 08:32:13)
* 2016-04-19 Beta Freeze (*) (pravins, 08:32:13)
* 2016-04-19 Change Checkpoint: 100% Code Complete Deadline
(pravins, 08:32:13)
* 2016-05-03 Beta Release (pravins, 08:32:13)
* 2016-05-24 Final Freeze (*) (pravins, 08:32:14)
* 2016-06-07 Fedora 24 Final Release (GA) (pravins, 08:32:16)
* Software String Freeze happened on 8th march. (pravins, 08:34:48)
* Fedor 24 L10N test day planning (pravins, 08:34:55)
* LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/G11N/ticket/18 (pravins, 08:35:01)
* LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-qa/ticket/480 (pravins,
08:35:08)
* Jobava has some suggestions on "mission functionality is terminology
control" in Zanata. Later follow up with aeng and team. (pravins,
08:41:10)
* vFAD for Translations (pravins, 08:41:57)
* LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/G11N/ticket/5 (pravins, 08:41:57)
* LINK: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N_GUI (pravins, 08:51:21)
* LINK: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_guides_table
(noriko, 08:55:38)
* Docs Schedule might not fit with GUI Translation vFAD. (pravins,
08:57:40)
* difficult to get vFAD translation in L10N test day image. Since
package owners might not build packages before Translation deadline.
(pravins, 09:15:19)
* IDEA: execute vFAD from 21-27 but translation may not get build by
package owners for L10N test day. (pravins, 09:19:25)
* Next meeting time (pravins, 09:22:36)
* Jobava will help to chair next G11N meeting. (pravins, 09:26:01)
* Open Floor (pravins, 09:26:22)
Meeting ended at 09:31:03 UTC.
Action Items
------------
Action Items, by person
-----------------------
* **UNASSIGNED**
* (none)
People Present (lines said)
---------------------------
* pravins (118)
* noriko (26)
* jibecfed (23)
* Jobava (20)
* juhp (12)
* zodbot (9)
* fale (9)
* paragan (5)
* mfabian (1)
* tagoh_ (1)
* epico (1)
* fujiwarat (1)
* suanand (1)
Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4
.. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
8 years, 1 month
Re: Tomorrow's g11n meeting
by pravin.d.s＠gmail.com
On 8 March 2016 at 14:11, Fabio Alessandro Locati <fabiolocati(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 07, 2016 at 11:18:11PM -0500, Ani Peter wrote:
> > Can we have our tomorrow's g11n meeting at 8:30AM UTC [1]? Are you guys
> okay with this time?
> +1 For me
>
Great. Created agenda page. [1] Looking forward to meet you all on IRC
tomorrow. :)
Sending other email for reminder.
-
Pravin
1. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/G11N/Meetings/2016-03-09
8 years, 1 month
Re: [FZH] Self-Introduction: mosquito
by mosquito
在 2016-02-20六的 13:53 +0000，Caius Chance写道：
> Hi 1dot75cm,
>
> Welcome. AFAIK we don't require official application procedures to join
> trans/trans-zh_cn team?
>
I still do not been approved for join fedora.zaratn.org. The 'zh_CN' coordinator
might be busy.
> Regards,
> kaio
>
> On Sat, 20 Feb 2016 at 23:51 mosquito <sensor.wen(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > I've been using Fedora and CentOS for a couple years now and would like to
> > start
> > contributing to the success of the project.
> > I have some experience in systems administration and scripting (bash,
> > python
> > mostly). I have made RHCSA, RHCE, RHCA certification.
> >
> > I have subscribed to the mailing list, and improve the FAS personal page.
> > Now, the request to join trans/trans-zh_cn team. I hope that through the
> > application.
> >
> > Name: 1dot75cm
> > Location: Beijing, China
> > Login: mosquito
> > Language: zh_CN
> > Profession or Student status: Student
> > About You: A university student.
> > You and the Fedora Project:
> > - Copr_zh-CN build service: Closed
> > - FZUG repository: http://github.com/FZUG/repo
> > - GNOME L10n transitor
> > - virt-manager transitor
> > - Blog: http://cm.fdzh.org--
> > Fedora中文郵件列表：https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chinese
> >
> --
> Fedora中文郵件列表：https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chinese
--
Regards,
mosquito
--
Github: https://github.com/1dot75cm
Blog: http://cm.fdzh.org
8 years, 1 month
