Fwd: Albanian Language Coordinator

[Besnik Bleta]

Hello,

First, I’d like to have this archived in the right place, which should
have been done be the sender, rather than contacting individuals via
their personal email addresses.

I’ll comment there.

Best,

Besnik

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Albanian Language Coordinator
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2016 18:09:59 +0200
From: Jona Azizaj 
To: Pravin Satpute , Noriko Mizumoto
, Alex Eng , Jean-Baptiste
, Justin W. Flory , Piotr
Drąg , Zoltan Hoppar , Parag
Nemade 
CC: Anxhelo Lushka , Anxhela Hyseni
, Giannis Konstantinidis
, [e-mail] ,
[e-mail], Besnik Bleta

Hello all,

As I have informed you before, regarding our Zanata albanian
coordinator, 6 months ago, when we were working hard on translating, we
spoke with Besnik (Anxhelo was the one that contacted him) on trans-sq
mailing list. He proposed, and we agreed, that in a 6 month period of
time we would pick the most active person in localization and in the end
we would create a poll to agree whom would be the new coordinator.

Now that 6 months passed by, we contacted him again on how we would
proceed and his answer was that we were not active enough and we weren't
using the mailing list. (Attached you will find the email in Albanian
where we contacted Besnik). We found this really disappointing and
demotivating on continuing contributing in localization, one of the
areas that we consider as a high priority for our community.

Please find below a list of activities that are conducted from some of
the most active members of the community:
Attached you will find a text file consisting of translation sprints
results and a list of Fedora events we have organized can be found
documented here [1].

As a result of the non consistency of Besnik's behavior many members are
likely not to continue contributing since none of their translations
have not been approved for months. Sadly we are in a situation where
there are many active contributors, the community is growing in many
areas, except localization where some are pulled off by the fact that
the strings are not being approved.

In addition, Besnik has claimed that we do not use the mailing list
which doesn't mean that we are not translating. Actually we actively use
our hackerspace mailing list a lot, which is well documented here [2].
We do this because our activities are held in a physical hackerspace due
to the effectiveness of the face-to-face communication.

If this situation and behavior continues our community members will
probably stop contributing in localization because:

* People feel demotivated by the actual coordinator not approving
their translations

* We have invited Besnik to join our activities in person but he has
not joined them. We strongly believe that meeting in person always
helps in this situation, but unfortunately he has not joined us.

​

To be clear, our purpose is not to remove Besnik, but to add other
coordinators, whom should be more active and approve the translations
(if they are correct).

We hope our request to have more coordinators for translations (which
will result in approving the translations faster) gets approved and
contributors don't get demotivated.

Cheers,
Jona

[1] https://openlabs.cc/tag/fedora/
[2] http://bit.ly/2eimuZZ

---
Jona Azizaj
<Fedora Ambassador>
http://jona.azizaj.com
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jonatoni
GPG Public Key: 6FDA5BDB

[Besnik Bleta]

On 10/17/2016 11:50 AM, Besnik Bleta wrote:
> Hello,
>
> First, I’d like to have this archived in the right place, which should
> have been done be the sender, rather than contacting individuals via
> their personal email addresses.
>
> I’ll comment there.
>
> Best,
>
> Besnik

My first reaction to that thread was shortly after it appeared, but I
made the mistake of replying with a wrong email address in order to
forward it to the current list, where it ought to have been started. So
it’s not a reaction after hearing what key participants had to say.

So far for "being late" in answering.

Regards,
Besnik

[Besnik Bleta]

Hello again,
> Hello all,

As others said, this thread started in a wrong place, adding to
suspects. If one is interested in furthering a project, the project
infrastructure is the right place to do so. There’s no obligation for
anybody to follow others in a multitude of channels, even less for a
coordinator. Extra communication channels are not welcomed from Fedora,
as long as you deal with Fedora thing. Otherwise you could keep your
translation activity happily on your infrastructure, without bothering
to complain here about whatever.

I believe that this is known to Azizaj, that’s why she asked for our
mailing list to be created, registered and left it, after being refused
to be appointed the maintainer of the sq list. (At that time I didn’t
see any reason why should I have it granted to her, someone without any
translation contribution at the time. And I don’t see any now, either.
Just asking for it doesn’t qualify for a reason.)
> As I have informed you before, regarding our Zanata albanian
> coordinator, 6 months ago, when we were working hard on translating, we
> spoke with Besnik (Anxhelo was the one that contacted him) on trans-sq
> mailing list. He proposed, and we agreed, that in a 6 month period of
> time we would pick the most active person in localization and in the end
> we would create a poll to agree whom would be the new coordinator.

The offer was purely mine, not any obligatory step required from Fedora.
I thought it would help furthering the translation project, after seeing
15 or so new contributors registering. Reviewing their translations,
mainly in anaconda, I saw substantial differences with what I would have
the translation look like. So I had to choose between refusing
them--thus giving a hard blow to someone in the first his/her steps of
translating
---or moving over and leave the project. I choose the later, but with
the condition--and that’s the part missing in Azizaj’s
interpretation--of having the contributors work and grow and have an
idea (based on that) about who would be the best candidate. In the
coordination list I didn’t see any message related to those matters,
which you’d expected from new contributors, people without experience in
translating and handling translation process, unfamiliar with any
terminology used before their arrival, and so on and so forth. In Zanata
is still hard to have a detailed view about who’s best in contributing,
or comparative contribution statistics. So you would guess that nothing
or little is happening.

Anaconda had the main contributions, and I approved those in late April,
having expressed my concerns explained above about the quality of the
contributions, about which I never heard a word from any of the
contributors.

I had a look in Zanata about sq contributors. From 18 of them, according
to Zanata, 14 have no contribution at all in the last two months. One
has contributed around 1600 word and another over 130. I would have
expected more and I do have my suspects about why it didn’t happen.
Statistics about the growth and individual activity would be welcomed
here to create an idea about the situation.

So far, it’s hard to keep track of translation progress in Zanata, so
going for translation list, where any contributor can ask about review,
would have been an easy way to nurture collaboration. Silence was chosen
instead. I’d like to know the reasons for such choice.

From what described above, my idea is that no substantial contribution
was made for six months. So the condition I ha in mind was not met.
Therefore I had no reason to abandon the project to people with little
interest in itself (feel free to speculate regarding other reasons)

And that’s why I refused to transfer the project to anyone.

In doing so, I believe I have not violated any Fedora policy.
> Now that 6 months passed by, we contacted him again on how we would
> proceed and his answer was that we were not active enough and we weren't
> using the mailing list. (Attached you will find the email in Albanian
> where we contacted Besnik). We found this really disappointing and
> demotivating on continuing contributing in localization, one of the
> areas that we consider as a high priority for our community.

I disagree firmly here. The translations, or any project, shouldn’t be
influenced from priorities of extra Fedora projects. These can have a
life on its own. It’s not translation’s duty to feed them.
> As a result of the non consistency of Besnik's behavior many members are
> likely not to continue contributing since none of their translations
> have not been approved for months. Sadly we are in a situation where
> there are many active contributors, the community is growing in many
> areas, except localization where some are pulled off by the fact that
> the strings are not being approved.

Again, I provided above the statistics about the last two months, and
those hardly sustain your claims.
> If this situation and behavior continues our community members will
> probably stop contributing in localization because:

You just started--and free from real translation review (remember that I
bulk approved anaconda strings) and are threatening to leave?!? I wonder
if this kind of primadona behaviour would be acceptable in other,
consolidated communities… (I’d like to hear Deng’s comments on this.)
> We have invited Besnik to join our activities in person but he has
>
> not joined them. We strongly believe that meeting in person always
> helps in this situation, but unfortunately he has not joined us.

I can’t join, as I live abroad, first, and second, because I don’t agree
with your parent organization in many key points and practices.
> To be clear, our purpose is not to remove Besnik, but to add other
> coordinators, whom should be more active and approve the translations
> (if they are correct).

If I stay, and reject the translations I think should be rejected, would
the contributors feel more motivated? See? To make you happy I should
go, so you’re effectively asking for it.[1]
> We hope our request to have more coordinators for translations (which
> will result in approving the translations faster) gets approved and
> contributors don't get demotivated.

I hope that doesn’t happen imposed from project elders. That would set a
dangerous precedent Fedora. I’d rather leave than seeing Fedora going in
that path.

Regards,
Besnik

[Florian Heiser]

Little bit of an outside view ...

On 17.10.2016 06:29, Besnik Bleta wrote:
> Hello again,
> > Hello all,
>
> As others said, this thread started in a wrong place, adding to
> suspects. If one is interested in furthering a project, the project
> infrastructure is the right place to do so. There’s no obligation for
> anybody to follow others in a multitude of channels, even less for a
> coordinator. Extra communication channels are not welcomed from Fedora,
> as long as you deal with Fedora thing. Otherwise you could keep your
> translation activity happily on your infrastructure, without bothering
> to complain here about whatever.
>
> I believe that this is known to Azizaj, that’s why she asked for our
> mailing list to be created, registered and left it, after being refused
> to be appointed the maintainer of the sq list. (At that time I didn’t
> see any reason why should I have it granted to her, someone without any
> translation contribution at the time. And I don’t see any now, either.
> Just asking for it doesn’t qualify for a reason.)
> > As I have informed you before, regarding our Zanata albanian
> > coordinator, 6 months ago, when we were working hard on translating, we
> > spoke with Besnik (Anxhelo was the one that contacted him) on trans-sq
> > mailing list. He proposed, and we agreed, that in a 6 month period of
> > time we would pick the most active person in localization and in the end
> > we would create a poll to agree whom would be the new coordinator.
>
> The offer was purely mine, not any obligatory step required from Fedora.
> I thought it would help furthering the translation project, after seeing
> 15 or so new contributors registering. Reviewing their translations,
> mainly in anaconda, I saw substantial differences with what I would have
> the translation look like. So I had to choose between refusing
> them--thus giving a hard blow to someone in the first his/her steps of
> translating
> ---or moving over and leave the project. I choose the later, but with

That is surprising. Is there only Yes and No or Black and White? You
guys can't discuss and find compromises in order to improve translations
that are not to the desired standards? Can't believe all translations
were bad. Quite radical step to leave the community because not being
able to have a productive discussion about quality improvements...
> the condition--and that’s the part missing in Azizaj’s
> interpretation--of having the contributors work and grow and have an
> idea (based on that) about who would be the best candidate. In the
> coordination list I didn’t see any message related to those matters,
> which you’d expected from new contributors, people without experience in
> translating and handling translation process, unfamiliar with any
> terminology used before their arrival, and so on and so forth. In Zanata
> is still hard to have a detailed view about who’s best in contributing,
> or comparative contribution statistics. So you would guess that nothing
> or little is happening.
>
> Anaconda had the main contributions, and I approved those in late April,
> having expressed my concerns explained above about the quality of the
> contributions, about which I never heard a word from any of the
> contributors.
>
> I had a look in Zanata about sq contributors. From 18 of them, according
> to Zanata, 14 have no contribution at all in the last two months. One
> has contributed around 1600 word and another over 130. I would have
> expected more and I do have my suspects about why it didn’t happen.

More? 1600 words in 2 months is a substantial contribution! Who dictates
how much each collaborator has to contribute?
> Statistics about the growth and individual activity would be welcomed
> here to create an idea about the situation.
>
> So far, it’s hard to keep track of translation progress in Zanata, so
> going for translation list, where any contributor can ask about review,
> would have been an easy way to nurture collaboration. Silence was chosen
> instead. I’d like to know the reasons for such choice.
>
> From what described above, my idea is that no substantial contribution
> was made for six months. So the condition I ha in mind was not met.
> Therefore I had no reason to abandon the project to people with little
> interest in itself (feel free to speculate regarding other reasons)
>
> And that’s why I refused to transfer the project to anyone.
>
> In doing so, I believe I have not violated any Fedora policy.
> > Now that 6 months passed by, we contacted him again on how we would
> > proceed and his answer was that we were not active enough and we weren't
> > using the mailing list. (Attached you will find the email in Albanian
> > where we contacted Besnik). We found this really disappointing and
> > demotivating on continuing contributing in localization, one of the
> > areas that we consider as a high priority for our community.
>
> I disagree firmly here. The translations, or any project, shouldn’t be
> influenced from priorities of extra Fedora projects. These can have a
> life on its own. It’s not translation’s duty to feed them.
> > As a result of the non consistency of Besnik's behavior many members are
> > likely not to continue contributing since none of their translations
> > have not been approved for months. Sadly we are in a situation where
> > there are many active contributors, the community is growing in many
> > areas, except localization where some are pulled off by the fact that
> > the strings are not being approved.
>
> Again, I provided above the statistics about the last two months, and
> those hardly sustain your claims.
> > If this situation and behavior continues our community members will
> > probably stop contributing in localization because:
>
> You just started--and free from real translation review (remember that I
> bulk approved anaconda strings) and are threatening to leave?!? I wonder
> if this kind of primadona behaviour would be acceptable in other,
> consolidated communities… (I’d like to hear Deng’s comments on this.)
> > We have invited Besnik to join our activities in person but he has
> >
> > not joined them. We strongly believe that meeting in person always
> > helps in this situation, but unfortunately he has not joined us.
>
> I can’t join, as I live abroad, first, and second, because I don’t agree
> with your parent organization in many key points and practices.
> > To be clear, our purpose is not to remove Besnik, but to add other
> > coordinators, whom should be more active and approve the translations
> > (if they are correct).
>
> If I stay, and reject the translations I think should be rejected, would
> the contributors feel more motivated? See? To make you happy I should
> go, so you’re effectively asking for it.[1]

This is not about rejecting and thus forcing people away or leaving. You
guys should learn to collaborate: Translate, Review, Improve, Enjoy!

Cheers,
Florian
> > We hope our request to have more coordinators for translations (which
> > will result in approving the translations faster) gets approved and
> > contributors don't get demotivated.
>
> I hope that doesn’t happen impos
> ers. That would set a
> dangerous precedent Fedora. I’d rather leave than seeing Fedora going in
> that path.
>
> Regards,
> Besnik
> _______________________________________________
> trans mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]

[Justin W. Flory]

Hello,

On 17.10.2016 06:29, Besnik Bleta wrote:
> > Hello again,
> >
> > As others said, this thread started in a wrong place, adding to
> > suspects. If one is interested in furthering a project, the project
> > infrastructure is the right place to do so. There’s no obligation for
> > anybody to follow others in a multitude of channels, even less for a
> > coordinator. Extra communication channels are not welcomed from Fedora,
> > as long as you deal with Fedora thing. Otherwise you could keep your
> > translation activity happily on your infrastructure, without bothering
> > to complain here about whatever.

I think the intent with this method of raising contact was to find a way 
to best approach this topic and how to go about it. I don't believe any 
foul play is meant by this but there is an issue that one side feels 
needs to be addresses. Now, we have the opportunity to discuss this as a 
community and come to a solution to resolve this.
> > I believe that this is known to Azizaj, that’s why she asked for our
> > mailing list to be created, registered and left it, after being refused
> > to be appointed the maintainer of the sq list. (At that time I didn’t
> > see any reason why should I have it granted to her, someone without any
> > translation contribution at the time. And I don’t see any now, either.
> > Just asking for it doesn’t qualify for a reason.)

When discussing this issue, we shouldn't make accusations based on 
guesses or interpretations. I would like to know why Jona felt it was 
best to leave the mailing list. Perhaps there is a reason why this 
action was taken. But until we know, we should avoid forming guesses 
that assume a negative motive or intention.
> > The offer was purely mine, not any obligatory step required from Fedora.
> > I thought it would help furthering the translation project, after seeing
> > 15 or so new contributors registering. Reviewing their translations,
> > mainly in anaconda, I saw substantial differences with what I would have
> > the translation look like. So I had to choose between refusing
> > them--thus giving a hard blow to someone in the first his/her steps of
> > translating
> > ---or moving over and leave the project. I choose the later, but with
> > the condition--and that’s the part missing in Azizaj’s
> > interpretation--of having the contributors work and grow and have an
> > idea (based on that) about who would be the best candidate. In the
> > coordination list I didn’t see any message related to those matters,
> > which you’d expected from new contributors, people without experience in
> > translating and handling translation process, unfamiliar with any
> > terminology used before their arrival, and so on and so forth. In Zanata
> > is still hard to have a detailed view about who’s best in contributing,
> > or comparative contribution statistics. So you would guess that nothing
> > or little is happening.

I think a good action item from this discussion would be encouraging 
discussion to the public Fedora mailing list from any regional or 
organizational lists. From what I am able to see, there are no 
objections to moving forward with having discussions and translations 
efforts for the Albanian language move to a more widely available option 
within Fedora.

Migrating any existing discussions happening in separate mailing lists 
to a Fedora list would be a good first step.
> > Anaconda had the main contributions, and I approved those in late April,
> > having expressed my concerns explained above about the quality of the
> > contributions, about which I never heard a word from any of the
> > contributors.
> >
> > I had a look in Zanata about sq contributors. From 18 of them, according
> > to Zanata, 14 have no contribution at all in the last two months. One
> > has contributed around 1600 word and another over 130. I would have
> > expected more and I do have my suspects about why it didn’t happen.
> > Statistics about the growth and individual activity would be welcomed
> > here to create an idea about the situation.
> >
> > So far, it’s hard to keep track of translation progress in Zanata, so
> > going for translation list, where any contributor can ask about review,
> > would have been an easy way to nurture collaboration. Silence was chosen
> > instead. I’d like to know the reasons for such choice.
> >
> > From what described above, my idea is that no substantial contribution
> > was made for six months. So the condition I ha in mind was not met.
> > Therefore I had no reason to abandon the project to people with little
> > interest in itself (feel free to speculate regarding other reasons)
> >
> > And that’s why I refused to transfer the project to anyone.
> >
> > In doing so, I believe I have not violated any Fedora policy.

From the above, it's easy to see that there is a miscommunication 
problem. The focus of our discussion in resolving this issue should be 
on finding out the cause of the problem and how we can work together to 
resolve this to the desires of both sides.

It's important that we remember the language we use when describing the 
contributions of others. As it has been mentioned, use of lists off of 
Fedora have been used which likely has contributed to some of the 
confusion over the problem on both ends. But putting aside any 
contributions made as made by people who have little interest in the 
project is a harsh interpretation and I don't think it is reflective of 
the work by the Albanian community. We should focus on finding ways to 
improve the communication gaps so that work that has happening is made 
more visible to others in the Albanian community.
> > You just started--and free from real translation review (remember that I
> > bulk approved anaconda strings) and are threatening to leave?!? I wonder
> > if this kind of primadona behaviour would be acceptable in other,
> > consolidated communities… (I’d like to hear Deng’s comments on this.)

What exactly is meant by "primadonna behavior"? While I understand that 
phrases and language meaning can differ across regions, these words are 
sharp and insulting. Part of the Albanian community feels their work is 
not being approved in a timely manner, and it is demotivating to the 
work of those who have contributed so far. We should be approaching this 
issue as a serious concern within the community. Casting aside the 
complaints as invalid or being overdramatic seems to lend support for 
the case presented earlier in this thread. In the spirit of the 
"Friends" foundation of Fedora, we should avoid using this rhetoric when 
describing other contributors.

Again, the language we use when discussing these types of issues is 
vital. It's important to be respectful and considerate to other 
contributors in the community, to recognize issues they feel are a 
problem, and collaboratively come to a conclusion where both sides can 
walk away feeling the issue is resolved. This will likely require 
compromise from both sides.
> > I can’t join, as I live abroad, first, and second, because I don’t agree
> > with your parent organization in many key points and practices.

The issue was identified where using lists off of Fedora was likely a 
mistake. Instead of focusing further on the mistake, let's spend time 
developing how we can open up communication to make existing and future 
contributions more visible within the Fedora Albanian community.
> > If I stay, and reject the translations I think should be rejected, would
> > the contributors feel more motivated? See? To make you happy I should
> > go, so you’re effectively asking for it.[1]

I don't believe anyone wants to see this as a solution. As mentioned, 
the local Albanian community does not see an issue with you as a 
coordinator but believes it would be helpful to have additional 
coordinators to review and approve translations. I strongly believe we 
are able to find a solution where nobody should feel demotivated to 
leave the project community, but we can make sure the concerns raised by 
the local community are properly addressed.
> > I hope that doesn’t happen imposed from project elders. That would set a
> > dangerous precedent Fedora. I’d rather leave than seeing Fedora going in
> > that path.

I don't think a solution imposed by leadership would be an effective 
solution. To me, it makes more sense to find a way to address within the 
community, and if necessary, put it to a vote or another format.

To me, a single person doing a job is always a dangerous thing in open 
source because of the fact that many of us contribute as volunteers. 
Whether it's for Ambassador mentors or language coordinators, I believe 
it would be a good idea to have more than one person as the language 
coordinator if there are people who are willing and able to help.

I've also CC'd Brian Exelbierd to provide any wisdom or other thoughts 
on this issue.
> > Regards,
> > Besnik

Thank you, Besnik, for your time and effort as the Albanian language 
coordinator. I look forward to working towards a solution we are all 
happy with.

[Besnik Bleta]

Hello,

On 10/17/2016 10:18 PM, Justin W. Flory wrote:
> What exactly is meant by "primadonna behavior"?

“primadonna - a very temperamental person with an inflated view of their
own talent or importance.”
If English has a more appropriate word for that, I’d be interested to
hear it.

Since you mentioned a couple of times language communication issues, I’d
like to remind you that we (non-English native) struggle enough to
explain ourselves for English audience. And that is even harder when
being lectured in ambassadorial style, which is hard to understand--or
stand--even for native speakers.
> This will likely require
> compromise from both sides.

That would mean a compromised translation.
This is the heart of all issues here: I don’t want a compromised
translation. I won’t sign it off.

You don’t make compromises when facing hijacking. You denounce it.
And you fight it.
> As mentioned, the local Albanian community does not see an issue with you as a
> coordinator but believes it would be helpful to have additional
> coordinators to review and approve translations.

So they don’t see an issue with me, but they just aren’t happy with me
not leaving for good, as expected. Dare I ask why would you need an
other contributor, when you aren’t happy with the current ones?
> To me, a single person doing a job is always a dangerous thing

I’ve heard this statement often and always puzzles me. The output of the
work one does is there, even if he dies, anyone could pick it up and
continue. The issues raise when you want to control what he does. Then
he can be dangerous.
> in open
> source because of the fact that many of us contribute as volunteers.
> Whether it's for Ambassador mentors or language coordinators, I believe
> it would be a good idea to have more than one person as the language
> coordinator if there are people who are willing and able to help.
>
> I've also CC'd Brian Exelbierd to provide any wisdom or other thoughts
> on this issue.
> > > Regards,
> > > Besnik
>
> Thank you, Besnik, for your time and effort as the Albanian language
> coordinator. I look forward to working towards a solution we are all
> happy with.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Regards,
Besnik

[Besnik Bleta]

Jean-Baptiste, Alex and Noriko,

Could I ask you to forward your answers in here, please?

Besnik

On 10/17/2016 11:50 AM, Besnik Bleta wrote:
> Hello,
>
> First, I’d like to have this archived in the right place, which should
> have been done be the sender, rather than contacting individuals via
> their personal email addresses.
>
> I’ll comment there.
>
> Best,
>
> Besnik
>
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> Subject: Albanian Language Coordinator
> Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2016 18:09:59 +0200
> From: Jona Azizaj 
> To: Pravin Satpute , Noriko Mizumoto
> , Alex Eng , Jean-Baptiste
> , Justin W. Flory , Piotr
> Drąg , Zoltan Hoppar , Parag
> Nemade 
> CC: Anxhelo Lushka , Anxhela Hyseni
> , Giannis Konstantinidis
> , [e-mail] ,
> [e-mail], Besnik Bleta
>
> Hello all,
>
> As I have informed you before, regarding our Zanata albanian
> coordinator, 6 months ago, when we were working hard on translating, we
> spoke with Besnik (Anxhelo was the one that contacted him) on trans-sq
> mailing list. He proposed, and we agreed, that in a 6 month period of
> time we would pick the most active person in localization and in the end
> we would create a poll to agree whom would be the new coordinator.
>
> Now that 6 months passed by, we contacted him again on how we would
> proceed and his answer was that we were not active enough and we weren't
> using the mailing list. (Attached you will find the email in Albanian
> where we contacted Besnik). We found this really disappointing and
> demotivating on continuing contributing in localization, one of the
> areas that we consider as a high priority for our community.
>
> Please find below a list of activities that are conducted from some of
> the most active members of the community:
> Attached you will find a text file consisting of translation sprints
> results and a list of Fedora events we have organized can be found
> documented here [1].
>
> As a result of the non consistency of Besnik's behavior many members are
> likely not to continue contributing since none of their translations
> have not been approved for months. Sadly we are in a situation where
> there are many active contributors, the community is growing in many
> areas, except localization where some are pulled off by the fact that
> the strings are not being approved.
>
> In addition, Besnik has claimed that we do not use the mailing list
> which doesn't mean that we are not translating. Actually we actively use
> our hackerspace mailing list a lot, which is well documented here [2].
> We do this because our activities are held in a physical hackerspace due
> to the effectiveness of the face-to-face communication.
>
> If this situation and behavior continues our community members will
> probably stop contributing in localization because:
> People feel demotivated by the actual coordinator not approving
>
> their translations
> We have invited Besnik to join our activities in person but he has
>
> not joined them. We strongly believe that meeting in person always
> helps in this situation, but unfortunately he has not joined us.
>
> ​
>
> To be clear, our purpose is not to remove Besnik, but to add other
> coordinators, whom should be more active and approve the translations
> (if they are correct).
>
> We hope our request to have more coordinators for translations (which
> will result in approving the translations faster) gets approved and
> contributors don't get demotivated.
>
> Cheers,
> Jona
>
> [1] https://openlabs.cc/tag/fedora/
> [2] http://bit.ly/2eimuZZ
>
> Jona Azizaj
>
> <Fedora Ambassador>
> http://jona.azizaj.com
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jonatoni
> GPG Public Key: 6FDA5BDB
>
> trans mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]

[Besnik Bleta]

Hello Jean-Baptiste,

Thank you for your comments! I agree with the most of them. I apologise
for the late answer, but just wanted to keep things in their due place.

Regards,
Besnik

[Besnik Bleta]

Hello Alex,

(And my apologise for misspelling your name as Deng in one previous
message.)

On 10/17/2016 01:11 AM, Alex Eng wrote:
> From what I understand, there is abit of dictatorship in the Albanian
> team by the coordinator at the moment. Everything have to goes through
> him alone for getting approved.

Benevolent though. I could be accused for not following every string
contributed, yes, but that doesn’t expel someone from translating. And
here again I’d like to call for statistics provided, especially after 21
or 22 April, when I expressed the idea of transferring sq to someone
else. Let the number speak.
> By that, it results in alot of restrictions on what other members can
> contribute towards translations.

Here again I’d like to call for statistics provided, especially after
April 21st or 22nd this year, when I expressed the idea of transferring
sq to someone else. Let the numbers speak.
> So, what I can think of, for the best of both the coordinator and the
> team members:
> Appoint another person as coordinator too. There is no restrictions
>
> of having only 1 coordinator/reviewer in a language team.
> So make it an official action by getting vote through Fedora mailing
> list by all the Albanian members, majority wins. This will making sure
> the news is open to whole l10n community, and everything goes through
> the proper process.
> Of course, the wording is important for why we need to start this. "For
> sharing the workload and reduce bottleneck of fast growing Albanian
> community...."

Do you have a reason to extend the initial request from reviewer in
coordinator?
> Start using l10n/Fedora mailing list. I suggest to get the newly
>
> appointed/going to be coordinator to register a mailing list in fedora
> domain and use that, cc'ed [e-mail]
>  for all upcoming activities
> (including the voting). This again would show the initiatives of that
> person towards the whole l10n, and also agree with besnik on using the
> proper Fedora channel for any l10n activities.

The list does exist. Are you looking to create a parallel sq project,
with a new coordinator, with a new mailing list? Id’ rather go straight
and ask the old one to leave.
> If for some reason, he dislike the idea, and disagree on the newly
>
> appointed person to be coordinator. Thats where the voting results comes
> into play where he simply just can't say no to what majority wants. This
> is how the community works.

No need for assumption. I had proposed basically the same 6 months ago,
nobody cared to go that way, as I explained in my answer to Azizaj’s mail.
> I think this would help with the current situation in your team.
> Thats my opinion :)

To which I partly agree, disagreeing strongly about the steps which
could create a parallel project and eventually overtaking it from the
current maintainer. Not because I think that that would harm my
reputation, or will close for me the doors of contributing, but because
it is ethically wrong and it would set a dangerous precedent for Fedora.

Best,
Besnik

[Redon Skikuli]

Dear Besnik,

personally as a contributor with a strong focus in community growth I feel really uncomfortable (not to say offended) with your attitude towards people that I personally know work so hard for the community. 
I want to be clear here: you share only half of the information and it is obvious you are doing it intentionally. Just to clarify for the list: Jona, was the first to ask for the SQ mailing list to be created after discussing it in one of our weekly meetings, which clearly shows the will to have all the work documented there. You can find the request here https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]/....
You jumped to ask for admin rights right away (sadly using the fact that you knew were to ask for it as a more experienced user) and afterwards when Jona contacted you to become also an admin of the list (her being the person who initiated the process) you declined because 'isn't it too early to make such requests?' as mentioned in this email http://prnt.sc/cve3w2. Now, how reasonable is to deny admin access to someone who initiated the request for the mailing list in the first place I would like to leave it to the list to judge. I hope now the list understands why people in the community feel uncomfortable participating in the mailing list and why they avoid it.  
You were also wondering why people have not contributed in the last two months. Well Besnik, they have! They have been contributing in recruiting, planning events and working with fellow Fedora community members, but they avoid localization not to be called 'primadona' or else. 
You also do not accept the beneficial elements of crowd-editing and contributing (based on your communication through email http://prnt.sc/cvefn0), a concept accepted by almost all FLOSS communities.

As it is right now: we have you, someone that has informed the community six month before that has no time to contribute and that promised that will step down if there are active contributors (well Anxhelo has contributed more than you) and on the other hand we have the people that are pushed away from localisation efforts. As i see it the sum here is zero. In my opinion we are working during the day to bring new contributors and by night you do your best to send them away by declining almost everything is done because you don't agree with the way we work on the hackerspace.

Besnik, I'd like to remind you that one of the four foundations of the Fedora Project is 'Friends' and you have proven not to be a good one. In the contrary, you have been a person that clearly does not want new contributors to jump in the project.

All the best, 
---
Redon Skikuli

[Besnik Bleta]

On 10/17/2016 05:12 PM, [e-mail] wrote:
> Dear Besnik,
>
> personally as a contributor with a strong focus in community growth I feel really uncomfortable
> (not to say offended) with your attitude towards people that I

personally know work so hard for the community.

Can you provide any example of "attitude" regarding <em>this</em>
community? And I haven’t express any about the people of <em>your</em>
community either. If I had an attitude, I wouldn’t have accepted 18,
eighteen, new people, into Albanian Fedora Translation team, I wouldn’t
have made the offer to transfer the administration of the whole project
to any of them capable, I could have simply bulk reject their
contribution in anaconda and elsewhere (they still are there, you scroll
only a couple of dozens of strings in top, only to find them ridden of
misspelling words. I have not even bother to look for logical errors,
consistency issues, misinterpretation, et cetera, et cetera…)
> I want to be clear here: you share only half of the information and it is obvious you are doing it intentionally.
> Just to clarify for the list: Jona, was the first to ask for the SQ

mailing list to be created after discussing it
> in one of our weekly meetings, which clearly shows the will to have all

the work documented there. You can find
> the request here

https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]/....
> You jumped to ask for admin rights right away (sadly using the fact that you knew were to ask for it as a more
> experienced user) and afterwards when Jona contacted you to become

also an admin of the list (her being the person
> who initiated the process) you declined because 'isn't it too early to

make such requests?' as mentioned in this email
> http://prnt.sc/cve3w2. Now, how reasonable is to deny admin access to

someone who initiated the request for the mailing
> list in the first place I would like to leave it to the list to judge.

I haven’t hidden anything from what you stated above about the creation
of the mailing list. Your are dreaming about intentions here. And you
should know by now that you don’t give admin rights to unknown people,
people who just arrived, as it was the case with your protégée at that
time, while I’ve been the coordinator and the main contributor to Fedora
translations prior to even the foundation of the organization you
represent.
> I hope now the list understands why people in the community feel uncomfortable participating in the mailing list

and why they avoid it.

You’re again making assumptions here about how future participants could
have guessed--prior to their arrival to the list-- how easy or difficult
would be to participate, unless they have been biased to believe so. You
could go back to the list and try to find a case in which I made people
uncomfortable to participate in the translations. You’ll find none,
unless you count a couple of mails where I implored new members to get
rid of Hotmail email addresses and one about a inappropriate nickname!
(I think even those were personal mails, not sent through the list, but
I might be mistaken…)
> You were also wondering why people have not contributed in the last two months. Well Besnik, they have! 
> They have been contributing in recruiting, planning events and working

with fellow Fedora community members,
> but they avoid localization not to be called 'primadona' or else.

I was not wondering. I referred what Zanata provides for the last two
months. In case you don’t know yet, Zanata is the platform for managing
Fedora translations. Extra-translational activities of any kind are
off-topic in this thread.
> You also do not accept the beneficial elements of crowd-editing
> and contributing (based on your communication through email

http://prnt.sc/cvefn0), a concept accepted by almost all FLOSS communities.
I still don’t. I wanted to prove myself wrong though, that’s why I let
18 new contributors in (mainly recruted from your organization, it
seems). Zanata reports that I was right then, as far as Fedora sq
translations go.
> As it is right now: we have you, someone that has informed the community six month before that has no time to contribute
> and that promised that will step down if there are active contributors

(well Anxhelo has contributed more than you)
I’ve recognized his contribution in a previous mail to the locale list.
For the rest no comprehensive statistics (you might light to count my
contribution in Fedora website group of translations and elsewhere;
check them https://fedora.zanata.org/dashboard/?dswid=-6759).
> and on the other hand we have the people that are pushed away from localisation efforts. As i see it the sum here is zero.
> In my opinion we are working during the day to bring new contributors

and by night you do your best to send them away by
> declining almost everything is done because you don't agree with the

way we work on the hackerspace.

That’s not true either. I haven’t done any really reviewing since late
April and the reasons are stated over and over (my initial idea of
transferring the maintenance of the project to someone else).
Just because someone is able to register an account on Zanata doesn’t
make them automatically contributors.
> Besnik, I'd like to remind you that one of the four foundations of the Fedora Project is 'Friends' and you have proven not to be a good one.
> In the contrary, you have been a person that clearly does not want new

contributors to jump in the project.

I’d invite you to refrain from guessing. My actions prove you wrong here.

As per what I want, I won’t bother telling you that one more time. I
have done that enough in the past.

Regards,
Besnik

Top Posting:
I think, everyone has cleared points they want to say, so lets stop here.
Our ultimate desire is to make Fedora better.

Besnik first of appreciated and thank you for your long time contribution
to Fedora project and leading Albanian language group.

And also whole Albanian group for excelling in last two Fedora translation
sprint. [1]  Fedora 25 there was bit drop but that happens in community
driven project. Specifically thanks to Jona as well for help in organizing
both sprints.

Here looks classic problem of miscommunication, so lets think what can we
do for it.
* Start all communications regarding review etc on sq mailing list.
* Besnik - You are well experienced in Sq translation. In my humble
opinion, its time to motivate new contributors and train them to take
responsibility. Now as a coordinator you should think, how you want to go
ahead with this. As a new contributors everyone is bound to make mistake
and here you suppose to guide/mentor them. But unless until we do not give
chance i don't think so, one will get chance to make mistake.
  -  I think at least lets start with giving someone deserving as per you
and team *"Reviewer"* role in Zanata.
* I am not expert but there is Style Guide [2] for most of the language, it
will be nice, if we can have one for SQ as well. It will solve many major
issues in future.
* Mailing list admin is really minor issue, we have an excellent Fedora
Infra team very active in all Admin related issue. If someone think, there
is an issue feel free to ping them.

Lets at least start with above suggested steps. Feel free to comment if
there is any issue in doing it.

Again let me say, we all are volunteer contributors and it in itself make
everyone great. This debate shows how much do we care for Fedora. :)

Best Regards,
Pravin Satpute

1.
https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/fedora-translation-sprint-5-days-50-...
2.
http://www.languageintelligence.com/blog/post/creating-a-translation-style-g...

On 17 October 2016 at 21:38, Besnik Bleta  wrote:
> On 10/17/2016 05:12 PM, [e-mail] wrote:
> > Dear Besnik,
> >
> > personally as a contributor with a strong focus in community growth I
>
> feel really uncomfortable
> > (not to say offended) with your attitude towards people that I
>
> personally know work so hard for the community.
>
> Can you provide any example of "attitude" regarding <em>this</em>
> community? And I haven’t express any about the people of <em>your</em>
> community either. If I had an attitude, I wouldn’t have accepted 18,
> eighteen, new people, into Albanian Fedora Translation team, I wouldn’t
> have made the offer to transfer the administration of the whole project
> to any of them capable, I could have simply bulk reject their
> contribution in anaconda and elsewhere (they still are there, you scroll
> only a couple of dozens of strings in top, only to find them ridden of
> misspelling words. I have not even bother to look for logical errors,
> consistency issues, misinterpretation, et cetera, et cetera…)
> > I want to be clear here: you share only half of the information and it
>
> is obvious you are doing it intentionally.
> > Just to clarify for the list: Jona, was the first to ask for the SQ
>
> mailing list to be created after discussing it
> > in one of our weekly meetings, which clearly shows the will to have all
>
> the work documented there. You can find
> > the request here
>
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/trans@lists.
> fedoraproject.org/thread/LP6LKTH3KMXSWCS3YAIPAIOS6NJ3R46K/.
> > You jumped to ask for admin rights right away (sadly using the fact that
>
> you knew were to ask for it as a more
> > experienced user) and afterwards when Jona contacted you to become
>
> also an admin of the list (her being the person
> > who initiated the process) you declined because 'isn't it too early to
>
> make such requests?' as mentioned in this email
> > http://prnt.sc/cve3w2. Now, how reasonable is to deny admin access to
>
> someone who initiated the request for the mailing
> > list in the first place I would like to leave it to the list to judge.
>
> I haven’t hidden anything from what you stated above about the creation
> of the mailing list. Your are dreaming about intentions here. And you
> should know by now that you don’t give admin rights to unknown people,
> people who just arrived, as it was the case with your protégée at that
> time, while I’ve been the coordinator and the main contributor to Fedora
> translations prior to even the foundation of the organization you
> represent.
> > I hope now the list understands why people in the community feel
>
> uncomfortable participating in the mailing list
> and why they avoid it.
>
> You’re again making assumptions here about how future participants could
> have guessed--prior to their arrival to the list-- how easy or difficult
> would be to participate, unless they have been biased to believe so. You
> could go back to the list and try to find a case in which I made people
> uncomfortable to participate in the translations. You’ll find none,
> unless you count a couple of mails where I implored new members to get
> rid of Hotmail email addresses and one about a inappropriate nickname!
> (I think even those were personal mails, not sent through the list, but
> I might be mistaken…)
> > You were also wondering why people have not contributed in the last two
>
> months. Well Besnik, they have!
> > They have been contributing in recruiting, planning events and working
>
> with fellow Fedora community members,
> > but they avoid localization not to be called 'primadona' or else.
>
> I was not wondering. I referred what Zanata provides for the last two
> months. In case you don’t know yet, Zanata is the platform for managing
> Fedora translations. Extra-translational activities of any kind are
> off-topic in this thread.
> > You also do not accept the beneficial elements of crowd-editing
> > and contributing (based on your communication through email
>
> http://prnt.sc/cvefn0), a concept accepted by almost all FLOSS
> communities.
> I still don’t. I wanted to prove myself wrong though, that’s why I let
> 18 new contributors in (mainly recruted from your organization, it
> seems). Zanata reports that I was right then, as far as Fedora sq
> translations go.
> > As it is right now: we have you, someone that has informed the community
>
> six month before that has no time to contribute
> > and that promised that will step down if there are active contributors
>
> (well Anxhelo has contributed more than you)
> I’ve recognized his contribution in a previous mail to the locale list.
> For the rest no comprehensive statistics (you might light to count my
> contribution in Fedora website group of translations and elsewhere;
> check them https://fedora.zanata.org/dashboard/?dswid=-6759).
> > and on the other hand we have the people that are pushed away from
>
> localisation efforts. As i see it the sum here is zero.
> > In my opinion we are working during the day to bring new contributors
>
> and by night you do your best to send them away by
> > declining almost everything is done because you don't agree with the
>
> way we work on the hackerspace.
>
> That’s not true either. I haven’t done any really reviewing since late
> April and the reasons are stated over and over (my initial idea of
> transferring the maintenance of the project to someone else).
> Just because someone is able to register an account on Zanata doesn’t
> make them automatically contributors.
> > Besnik, I'd like to remind you that one of the four foundations of the
>
> Fedora Project is 'Friends' and you have proven not to be a good one.
> > In the contrary, you have been a person that clearly does not want new
>
> contributors to jump in the project.
>
> I’d invite you to refrain from guessing. My actions prove you wrong here.
>
> As per what I want, I won’t bother telling you that one more time. I
> have done that enough in the past.
>
> Regards,
> Besnik
> _______________________________________________
> trans mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]

[Anxhelo Lushka]

Hello everyone,

As Pravin said, I think the points are clear now. I would like to propose a solution for this problem so I'm applying for SQ reviewer. I think it would solve this issue and we will of course start to use the trans-sq mailing list further on to discuss further on.

Also, I have been working on creating a special vocabulary with the most used terms and the most appropriate translation for them, so it can be easily accessed by existing and new contributors, to use them in their localizations and to be consistent.

Best regards,
Anxhelo Lushka

On 18 October 2016 at 14:55, Anxhelo Lushka 
wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> As Pravin said, I think the points are clear now. I would like to propose
> a solution for this problem so I'm applying for SQ reviewer. I think it
> would solve this issue and we will of course start to use the trans-sq
> mailing list further on to discuss further on.
>
> Also, I have been working on creating a special vocabulary with the most
> used terms and the most appropriate translation for them, so it can be
> easily accessed by existing and new contributors, to use them in their
> localizations and to be consistent.

Thanks Anxhelo for initiating it. Besnik is managing group from long time
and we must respect his decision. Lets see whats Besnik thinks about it.
Again i strongly feel, we must give opportunities to new members and mentor
them.

We have few open issues to discuss specifically from Trans perspective, i
am soon planning meeting for it. Mostly European TZ this time. If no
solution happens lets discuss in meeting and see what can we do.

Thanks,
Pravin

[Besnik Bleta]

On 10/19/2016 09:00 AM, [e-mail] wrote:
> On 18 October 2016 at 14:55, Anxhelo Lushka <[e-mail]
> > wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> As Pravin said, I think the points are clear now. I would like to
> propose a solution for this problem so I'm applying for SQ reviewer.
> I think it would solve this issue and we will of course start to use
> the trans-sq mailing list further on to discuss further on.
>
> Also, I have been working on creating a special vocabulary with the
> most used terms and the most appropriate translation for them, so it
> can be easily accessed by existing and new contributors, to use them
> in their localizations and to be consistent.
>
>
>
> Thanks Anxhelo for initiating it. Besnik is managing group from long
> time and we must respect his decision. Lets see whats Besnik thinks
> about it.
> Again i strongly feel, we must give opportunities to new members and
> mentor them.
>
> We have few open issues to discuss specifically from Trans perspective,
> i am soon planning meeting for it. Mostly European TZ this time. If no
> solution happens lets discuss in meeting and see what can we do.
>
> Thanks,
> Pravin

I hoped that fellow translators and coordinators would stand up publicly
against hijacking practices. I consider it hijacking, since it initiated
from an external entity, which pressed hard for accepting their
self-righteous views.

I’ve seen reconciliatory preachings coming from people who see the
situation just as a little miscommunication issues, assuming that this
is a conflict between one person and a community. If you take out those
inactive 14 people, there’s five left, with only two translation sprints
behind and some 3-5 thousand words contribution (I asked for recent
statistics in my previous messages, none was offered.)

I’d have been happy to hear any translation experience, any substantial
corpus of work, any completed translation project, of any of them which
could justify the rush to be promoted to reviewer or coordinator role.

To avoid further embarrassing situation to fellow translators I hereby
step back from coordinator for sq locale. Please transfer the rights to
[e-mail] as well.

For any further communication, PM and I’d be happy to answer and help.

I wish the best for sq locale in Fedora.

A big thank for all who tried to help!

Regards,
Besnik

[Jean-Baptiste]

Le 2016-10-19 11:25, Besnik Bleta a écrit :
> I hoped that fellow translators and coordinators would stand up 
> publicly
> against hijacking practices. I consider it hijacking, since it 
> initiated
> from an external entity, which pressed hard for accepting their
> self-righteous views.
> I’ve seen reconciliatory preachings coming from people who see the
> situation just as a little miscommunication issues, assuming that this
> is a conflict between one person and a community. If you take out those
> inactive 14 people, there’s five left, with only two translation 
> sprints
> behind and some 3-5 thousand words contribution (I asked for recent
> statistics in my previous messages, none was offered.)

We did, none of us said you did something obviously wrong nor suggested 
to remove your coordinator role.
It means at least tacite support. We are several hundreds person on this 
mailing list (600 or 900 hundreds), we write when we need to (at least 
we try).

I also wrote before this discussion arrived on-list and authorized you 
to publish it here. I pointed out even unreviewed strings will reach 
end-user and using non-fedora mailing list for fedora translation 
activities is a bad idea. I also wrote "Does Besnik do something you see 
incompatible with his role ?"

Even if you feel like hijacked and personnaly challenged, the only thing 
that serve you badly is making personnal attacks.
> To avoid further embarrassing situation to fellow translators I hereby
> step back from coordinator for sq locale. Please transfer the rights to
> [e-mail] as well.

I'm sad you're giving up the role, I hope you will still translate, you 
have a lot of interesting and major projects to translate in Albanian.

On 19 October 2016 at 15:47, Jean-Baptiste Holcroft <
[e-mail]> wrote:
> Le 2016-10-19 11:25, Besnik Bleta a écrit :
> > I hoped that fellow translators and coordinators would stand up publicly
> > against hijacking practices. I consider it hijacking, since it initiated
> > from an external entity, which pressed hard for accepting their
> > self-righteous views.
>
> I’ve seen reconciliatory preachings coming from people who see the
> > situation just as a little miscommunication issues, assuming that this
> > is a conflict between one person and a community. If you take out those
> > inactive 14 people, there’s five left, with only two translation sprints
> > behind and some 3-5 thousand words contribution (I asked for recent
> > statistics in my previous messages, none was offered.)
>
> We did, none of us said you did something obviously wrong nor suggested to
> remove your coordinator role.
> It means at least tacite support. We are several hundreds person on this
> mailing list (600 or 900 hundreds), we write when we need to (at least we
> try).
>
> I also wrote before this discussion arrived on-list and authorized you to
> publish it here. I pointed out even unreviewed strings will reach end-user
> and using non-fedora mailing list for fedora translation activities is a
> bad idea. I also wrote "Does Besnik do something you see incompatible with
> his role ?"
>
> Even if you feel like hijacked and personnaly challenged, the only thing
> that serve you badly is making personnal attacks.

Exactly. Fedora is community driven. It has rules and regulation defined by
community itself. If some problem, we can define new rules to deal with it
with consensus.

No one forced Besnik for any action, rather requested his opinion. Deciding
based on statistics if fine. If you could ask, we can definitely go for it.
> To avoid further embarrassing situation to fellow translators I hereby
> > step back from coordinator for sq locale. Please transfer the rights to
> > [e-mail] as well.
>
> I'm sad you're giving up the role, I hope you will still translate, you
> have a lot of interesting and major projects to translate in Albanian.

Indeed sad to see going. Ideally this is not way to ending
debate/discussion.  Your decision, so respecting it. Let us know, if we can
help anyway.

Thanks,
Pravin

[Brian Exelbierd]

Top Posting On Purpose.

I am sorry to see Besnik step away without a solid resolution to this
issue.

I am also sorry to see only one, iirc, email in this thread actually
addressing the issue with the translations themselves.

Reading all sides generously, it seems that there is a disagreement over
the quality of the translations.  I hope and presume that there has been
solid discussion, probably in SQ, about this.  However, I see no
evidence of this.  All parties to this conversation who work on SQ
translations have a duty to work with new translators to help them bring
their quality up to standards.  This is the same activity we would do
with code contributors.  We don't either merge or close, we engage in
dialog to make it better.

Now that Besnik has stepped back, what is the plan for bringing quality
into SQ translations and getting those translations moving again?

Are the new SQ community members prepared to use the Fedora provided SQ
list so that non-local translators, such as Besnik, can participate and
keep a feeling for the "pulse" of the group?

Noriko/Alex/others - are there best practices we can share from other
language groups to help the SQ community with reviews?

regards,

bex

On Wed, Oct 19, 2016, at 11:25 AM, Besnik Bleta wrote:
> On 10/19/2016 09:00 AM, [e-mail] wrote:
> > On 18 October 2016 at 14:55, Anxhelo Lushka <[e-mail]
> > > wrote:
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > As Pravin said, I think the points are clear now. I would like to
> > propose a solution for this problem so I'm applying for SQ reviewer.
> > I think it would solve this issue and we will of course start to use
> > the trans-sq mailing list further on to discuss further on.
> >
> > Also, I have been working on creating a special vocabulary with the
> > most used terms and the most appropriate translation for them, so it
> > can be easily accessed by existing and new contributors, to use them
> > in their localizations and to be consistent.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks Anxhelo for initiating it. Besnik is managing group from long
> > time and we must respect his decision. Lets see whats Besnik thinks
> > about it.
> > Again i strongly feel, we must give opportunities to new members and
> > mentor them.
> >
> > We have few open issues to discuss specifically from Trans perspective,
> > i am soon planning meeting for it. Mostly European TZ this time. If no
> > solution happens lets discuss in meeting and see what can we do.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Pravin
>
> I hoped that fellow translators and coordinators would stand up publicly
> against hijacking practices. I consider it hijacking, since it initiated
> from an external entity, which pressed hard for accepting their
> self-righteous views.
>
> I’ve seen reconciliatory preachings coming from people who see the
> situation just as a little miscommunication issues, assuming that this
> is a conflict between one person and a community. If you take out those
> inactive 14 people, there’s five left, with only two translation sprints
> behind and some 3-5 thousand words contribution (I asked for recent
> statistics in my previous messages, none was offered.)
>
> I’d have been happy to hear any translation experience, any substantial
> corpus of work, any completed translation project, of any of them which
> could justify the rush to be promoted to reviewer or coordinator role.
>
> To avoid further embarrassing situation to fellow translators I hereby
> step back from coordinator for sq locale. Please transfer the rights to
> [e-mail] as well.
>
> For any further communication, PM and I’d be happy to answer and help.
>
> I wish the best for sq locale in Fedora.
>
> A big thank for all who tried to help!
>
> Regards,
> Besnik
>
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