QA test for L10N

[Noriko Mizumoto]

Hi translators and testers

Regarding the following task entries of F13, recently I have contacted 
QA team (f-test-l) for live image creation and heard positive replies. 
So I like to reopen different thread to discuss entire picture with QA 
team and L10N team together. Please throw your idea and improve this 
event better. If any doubt/question, pls do ask.

As you can notice, it is my bad expressing this in several way such as 
'QA test for L10N', 'Review task', 'QA event' etc. What is the
best to 
describe?

For newer translators and testers, this event has just started since 
Fedora 12. The background is that translators are usually working on PO 
file only and unable to check the quality of translation how it appears 
in GUI. Thus to allow translators to review translation in GUI for high 
quality translation, this event has been added with FESCo approval.

[f13-trans-tasks]
* Build F-13 collection packages for all language translators
    (Wed 2010-03-03  	Fri 2010-03-05)

* Review and correct software translation in built UI
    (Mon 2010-03-08 Tue 2010-03-16)

[Steps]
1. Remind devel-announce for building F13 packages with latest 
translation by 2010-03-04.
2. QA team places nightly-compose of 2010-03-05 at specific location, 
and make it available during review period.
3. Translators and testers start QA test (review) during 2010-03-08 and 
2010-03-16.
4. Packagers fix bugs to include them into final build for GA.

I am thinking to create simple packages list with how-to-access-gui. Any 
finding which needs packager's action should be reported as a bug [1].

[1]:https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=522431


noriko

[James Laska]

On Tue, 2010-01-05 at 15:43 +1000, Noriko Mizumoto wrote:
>  Hi translators and testers
>  
>  Regarding the following task entries of F13, recently I have contacted 
>  QA team (f-test-l) for live image creation and heard positive replies. 
>  So I like to reopen different thread to discuss entire picture with QA 
>  team and L10N team together. Please throw your idea and improve this 
>  event better. If any doubt/question, pls do ask. 
My first thought when seeing the previous thread where to ask whether
your testing instructions were documented already.  We have test cases
for the Fedora 12 i18n test day [1], so if this is a common sequence of
tasks that you'd like to encourage others to follow, this might help.
If you have more than just a series of test cases (perhaps a higher
strategy, organization and pass/fail criteria), I might suggest a
lightweight test plan [2].

>  As you can notice, it is my bad expressing this in several way such
> as 
>  'QA test for L10N', 'Review task', 'QA event' etc. What is the
> best to 
>  describe? 
We hosted i18n focused Test Days in previous releases and I believe they
worked rather well to organize folks around a common goal.  I don't see
any problems using that vehicle for Fedora 13 if there is a sufficient
amount of work that can be distributed.  If you'd like more information,
take a look at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/SOP_Test_Day_management.  We'll be
happy to assist in setting up an event.

>  For newer translators and testers, this event has just started since
>
>  Fedora 12. The background is that translators are usually working on PO 
>  file only and unable to check the quality of translation how it appears 
>  in GUI. Thus to allow translators to review translation in GUI for high 
>  quality translation, this event has been added with FESCo approval.
>  
>  [f13-trans-tasks]
>  * Build F-13 collection packages for all language translators
>      (Wed 2010-03-03  	Fri 2010-03-05)
>  
>  * Review and correct software translation in built UI
>      (Mon 2010-03-08 Tue 2010-03-16)
>  
>  [Steps]
>  1. Remind devel-announce for building F13 packages with latest 
>  translation by 2010-03-04.
>  2. QA team places nightly-compose of 2010-03-05 at specific location, 
>  and make it available during review period.
>  3. Translators and testers start QA test (review) during 2010-03-08 and 
>  2010-03-16.
>  4. Packagers fix bugs to include them into final build for GA.
>  
>  I am thinking to create simple packages list with how-to-access-gui. Any 
>  finding which needs packager's action should be reported as a bug [1]. 
Would this be useful information to document on the wiki?  Perhaps as a
QA [3] or L10N SOP?

Thanks,
James

[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:I18n_Test_Cases
[2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Test_Plans
[3] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:QA_SOPs

[Noriko Mizumoto]

James Laska さんは書きました:
>  On Tue, 2010-01-05 at 15:43 +1000, Noriko Mizumoto wrote:
> > Hi translators and testers
> >
> > Regarding the following task entries of F13, recently I have contacted 
> > QA team (f-test-l) for live image creation and heard positive replies. 
> > So I like to reopen different thread to discuss entire picture with QA 
> > team and L10N team together. Please throw your idea and improve this 
> > event better. If any doubt/question, pls do ask.
>  
>  My first thought when seeing the previous thread where to ask whether
>  your testing instructions were documented already.  We have test cases
>  for the Fedora 12 i18n test day [1], so if this is a common sequence of
>  tasks that you'd like to encourage others to follow, this might help.
>  If you have more than just a series of test cases (perhaps a higher
>  strategy, organization and pass/fail criteria), I might suggest a
>  lightweight test plan [2].
>  
We only had very tiny window to organize this review event for F12, and 
there was no instruction documented. I joined F12 i18n test day and 
learned all well documented. i18n test day is good example and l10n 
should have similar documentation. For F13, something like 
"https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:L10n_Test_Cases" to be written. 
L10n test day (this is our review process) is different from i18n.

My original mail has followed " Template:QA/Test Plan" [1].

[1]:https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-December/msg0035...

> > As you can notice, it is my bad expressing this in several way
> such as 
> > 'QA test for L10N', 'Review task', 'QA event' etc. What is
> the best to 
> > describe?
>  
>  We hosted i18n focused Test Days in previous releases and I believe they
>  worked rather well to organize folks around a common goal.  I don't see
>  any problems using that vehicle for Fedora 13 if there is a sufficient
>  amount of work that can be distributed.  If you'd like more information,
>  take a look at
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/SOP_Test_Day_management.  We'll be
>  happy to assist in setting up an event. 
Thanks for the pointer! Here is L10n SOP.

1 Get people on board =>  Translators and testers
2 Set a date => 2010-03-08 to 2010-03-16
3 Create the Wiki page
     o 3.1 Create test cases  => I do have some draft not published yet 
(how-to-access-gui)
     o 3.2 Set up the results table => it was bug tracker for F12
4 Build a live CD =>  We need "nightly compose 2010-03-05" somewhere 
accessible between 2010-03-08 to 2010-03-16
5 Promote the Test Day => reminder of task schedule to be sent by John
6 Pre-event reminder => same the above
7 Update Test_Day:Current => same with 3.2 bug tracker
8 Do a post-event review => any idea?

noriko
>  
> > For newer translators and testers, this event has just started since 
> > Fedora 12. The background is that translators are usually working on PO 
> > file only and unable to check the quality of translation how it appears 
> > in GUI. Thus to allow translators to review translation in GUI for high 
> > quality translation, this event has been added with FESCo approval.
> >
> > [f13-trans-tasks]
> > * Build F-13 collection packages for all language translators
> >     (Wed 2010-03-03  	Fri 2010-03-05)
> >
> > * Review and correct software translation in built UI
> >     (Mon 2010-03-08 Tue 2010-03-16)
> >
> > [Steps]
> > 1. Remind devel-announce for building F13 packages with latest 
> > translation by 2010-03-04.
> > 2. QA team places nightly-compose of 2010-03-05 at specific location, 
> > and make it available during review period.
> > 3. Translators and testers start QA test (review) during 2010-03-08 and 
> > 2010-03-16.
> > 4. Packagers fix bugs to include them into final build for GA.
> >
> > I am thinking to create simple packages list with how-to-access-gui. Any 
> > finding which needs packager's action should be reported as a bug [1].
>  
>  Would this be useful information to document on the wiki?  Perhaps as a
>  QA [3] or L10N SOP?
>  
>  Thanks,
>  James
>  
>  [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:I18n_Test_Cases
>  [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Test_Plans
>  [3] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:QA_SOPs
>

[Noriko Mizumoto]

For F13, something like
>  "https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:L10n_Test_Cases"
> to be written.  
Done :-)
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:L10n_Test_Cases

This is still incomplete, and I wish everyone to have a look and 
complete this list and to add any idea. I meant 'built status' is if 
package was built by specified date.

noriko

[Igor Pires Soares]

Em Qua, 2010-01-06 às 12:24 +1000, Noriko Mizumoto escreveu:
>  For F13, something like
>  > "https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:L10n_Test_Cases" to be written. 
>  Done :-)
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:L10n_Test_Cases
>  
>  This is still incomplete, and I wish everyone to have a look and 
>  complete this list and to add any idea. I meant 'built status' is if 
>  package was built by specified date. 
Noriko, I suggest the inclusion of a test case for Anaconda using the
Installation Media in addition to the Live Media. Of course, we would
have to use an additional build.

The Installation Media has a different set of strings and IMHO they are
worth to be tested. For instance, on Fedora 12, Anaconda was 100%
translated for Brazilian Portuguese but some strings remained in English
on the Installation Media, although everything was OK on the Live Media.

Regards,
Igor Pires Soares

[Domingo Becker]

2010/1/6 Igor Pires Soares <igorsoares(a)gmail.com&gt;:
>  The Installation Media has a different set of strings and IMHO they
> are
>  worth to be tested. For instance, on Fedora 12, Anaconda was 100%
>  translated for Brazilian Portuguese but some strings remained in English
>  on the Installation Media, although everything was OK on the Live Media.
>  
The same happened for Spanish, but next time I will also test the the
dvd installation media during alpha phase. Last time I only tested the
live cd.

kind regards

Domingo Becker (es)

[Noriko Mizumoto]

Domingo Becker さんは書きました:
>  2010/1/6 Igor Pires Soares <igorsoares(a)gmail.com&gt;:
> > The Installation Media has a different set of strings and IMHO they are
> > worth to be tested. For instance, on Fedora 12, Anaconda was 100%
> > translated for Brazilian Portuguese but some strings remained in English
> > on the Installation Media, although everything was OK on the Live Media.
> >
>  
>  The same happened for Spanish, but next time I will also test the the
>  dvd installation media during alpha phase. Last time I only tested the
>  live cd. 
I am not sure if installation media is available for us in this review 
period. But it is good to know the cause why this happens.

[Noriko Mizumoto]

Noriko Mizumoto さんは書きました:
>  Domingo Becker さんは書きました:
> > 2010/1/6 Igor Pires Soares <igorsoares(a)gmail.com&gt;:
> >> The Installation Media has a different set of strings and IMHO they are
> >> worth to be tested. For instance, on Fedora 12, Anaconda was 100%
> >> translated for Brazilian Portuguese but some strings remained in English
> >> on the Installation Media, although everything was OK on the Live Media.
> >>
> >
> > The same happened for Spanish, but next time I will also test the the
> > dvd installation media during alpha phase. Last time I only tested the
> > live cd.
>  
>  I am not sure if installation media is available for us in this review 
>  period. But it is good to know the cause why this happens.
>   
Sorry replied myself.
I will be holiday traveling between 8th to 27th January. Due to the 
place to visit, no internet no mobile available. It would be nice that 
many of you keep this ball rolling.

noriko

[Igor Pires Soares]

Em Qui, 2010-01-07 às 09:43 +1000, Noriko Mizumoto escreveu:
>  Noriko Mizumoto さんは書きました:
>  > Domingo Becker さんは書きました:
>  >> 2010/1/6 Igor Pires Soares <igorsoares(a)gmail.com&gt;:
>  >>> The Installation Media has a different set of strings and IMHO they are
>  >>> worth to be tested. For instance, on Fedora 12, Anaconda was 100%
>  >>> translated for Brazilian Portuguese but some strings remained in English
>  >>> on the Installation Media, although everything was OK on the Live Media.
>  >>>
>  >>
>  >> The same happened for Spanish, but next time I will also test the the
>  >> dvd installation media during alpha phase. Last time I only tested the
>  >> live cd.
>  > 
>  > I am not sure if installation media is available for us in this review 
>  > period. But it is good to know the cause why this happens.
>  > 
>  Sorry replied myself.
>  I will be holiday traveling between 8th to 27th January. Due to the 
>  place to visit, no internet no mobile available. It would be nice that 
>  many of you keep this ball rolling. 
Since Noriko is on holiday traveling, I updated the Fedora 13 l10n
Results Template wiki page [1] in order to provide some more information
for translators, although the page isn't complete yet.

We are using a command-line driven approach to write the testing steps.
This is a good way to go because commands are language independent, so
we can standardize the process. Translators, if you feel uncomfortable
with this approach please let me know.

I guess when we have more documentation prepared we can split it in more
pages, so far it looks ok for me.

[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Fedora_13_l10n_Results_Template

[Ankit Patel]

Igor Pires Soares wrote:
>  Since Noriko is on holiday traveling, I updated the Fedora 13 l10n 
>  Results Template wiki page [1] in order to provide some more 
>  information for translators, although the page isn't complete yet.
>  
>  We are using a command-line driven approach to write the testing 
>  steps. This is a good way to go because commands are language 
>  independent, so we can standardize the process. Translators, if you 
>  feel uncomfortable with this approach please let me know.
>  
>  I guess when we have more documentation prepared we can split it in 
>  more pages, so far it looks ok for me.
>  
>  [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Fedora_13_l10n_Results_Template
>  
>   
Hi,

Thanks for the heads up Igor.

some inputs from my side.
* We need to review the list of packages, as some of the packages do not
really comes as default or being obsoleted by some other packages.
* Steps section needs to be updated. (e.g. for Anaconda testing - 1.
Issue command "liveinst" 2. Check buttons' translations 3. Check whether
every message on each window is translated correctly 4. Check the
consistency of translation across the application and desktop items. [5.
Checking the menu items, dialog boxes' translation if any] If any of
these fails file a bug)
* There should be one more column for "Status", which denotes whether
the test case passed or failed.

Let me know, if this looks okay to you all, I will edit it in the wiki
page in a more described way.

Thanks!

-- 
Regards,
Ankit Patel
http://www.indianoss.org/
http://www.ankit644.com/

[Igor Pires Soares]

Em Ter, 2010-01-19 às 14:41 +0530, Ankit Patel escreveu: 
>  Igor Pires Soares wrote:
>  > I guess when we have more documentation prepared we can split it in 
>  > more pages, so far it looks ok for me.
>  > 
>  > [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Fedora_13_l10n_Results_Template
>  > 
>  > 
>  
>  Hi,
>  
>  Thanks for the heads up Igor.
>  
>  some inputs from my side.
>  * We need to review the list of packages, as some of the packages do not
>  really comes as default or being obsoleted by some other packages. 
IMHO it is important to include not only those packages that come as
default, at least I think we should include all system-config-* apps
since some of them don't come as default but are also important. I
realize some packages as switchdesk and hwbrowser seems obsoleted, but
they are still being packed for F13, anyway I'm not sure if they are
worth testing at first. I just removed rhpxl and system-config-cluster
from the list since both are really obsoleted.

>  * Steps section needs to be updated. (e.g. for Anaconda testing - 1.
>  Issue command "liveinst" 2. Check buttons' translations 3. Check whether
>  every message on each window is translated correctly 4. Check the
>  consistency of translation across the application and desktop items. [5.
>  Checking the menu items, dialog boxes' translation if any] If any of
>  these fails file a bug) 
If we want more complete steps I think we should write them in other
page or write separated test cases like i18n does and link them using a
wiki category, as suggested earlier. So we can clean up the results
template page by moving the "steps" column to an individual installer
test case, for instance. 

Regards,
Igor Pires Soares

[Noriko Mizumoto]

Igor Pires Soares さんは書きました:
>  Em Ter, 2010-01-19 às 14:41 +0530, Ankit Patel escreveu: 
> > Igor Pires Soares wrote:
> >> I guess when we have more documentation prepared we can split it in 
> >> more pages, so far it looks ok for me.
> >>
> >> [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Fedora_13_l10n_Results_Template
> >>
> >>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Thanks for the heads up Igor.
> >
> > some inputs from my side.
> > * We need to review the list of packages, as some of the packages do not
> > really comes as default or being obsoleted by some other packages.
>  
>  IMHO it is important to include not only those packages that come as
>  default, at least I think we should include all system-config-* apps
>  since some of them don't come as default but are also important. I
>  realize some packages as switchdesk and hwbrowser seems obsoleted, but
>  they are still being packed for F13, anyway I'm not sure if they are
>  worth testing at first. I just removed rhpxl and system-config-cluster
>  from the list since both are really obsoleted. 
I saw great progress in Template, thank you so much!
For packages that don't come as default still important, +1 to Igor.

>  
> > * Steps section needs to be updated. (e.g. for Anaconda testing - 1.
> > Issue command "liveinst" 2. Check buttons' translations 3. Check
> whether
> > every message on each window is translated correctly 4. Check the
> > consistency of translation across the application and desktop items. [5.
> > Checking the menu items, dialog boxes' translation if any] If any of
> > these fails file a bug)
>  
>  If we want more complete steps I think we should write them in other
>  page or write separated test cases like i18n does and link them using a
>  wiki category, as suggested earlier. So we can clean up the results
>  template page by moving the "steps" column to an individual installer
>  test case, for instance.  
Good idea. Ankit, how you think?

Now only those packages have no step for review, 'smoon', 'readahead', 
'python-meh', 'pykickstart', 'libuser' and 'kexec-tools'.
Anyone, any idea?

noriko

[Igor Pires Soares]

Em Qua, 2010-02-17 às 15:26 +1000, Noriko Mizumoto escreveu:
>  Now only those packages have no step for review, 'smoon',
> 'readahead', 
>  'python-meh', 'pykickstart', 'libuser' and 'kexec-tools'.
> Anyone, any idea? 
Some of these packages are most commonly used by other packages that
rely on them. I would appreciate if some developers tell us the best way
for testing those strings.

Thanks,
Igor Pires Soares

[James Laska]

On Wed, 2010-01-06 at 12:24 +1000, Noriko Mizumoto wrote:
>  For F13, something like
>  > "https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:L10n_Test_Cases" to be written. 
>  Done :-)
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:L10n_Test_Cases
>  
>  This is still incomplete, and I wish everyone to have a look and 
>  complete this list and to add any idea. I meant 'built status' is if 
>  package was built by specified date. 
Greetings Noriko,

Typically, the category wiki pages are mostly a method for organizing
related content on the wiki.  So for the [[Category:L10n_Test_Cases]],
you might use that to organize different wiki test case pages that have
instructions for the l10n testing.  For other examples, take a look at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:I18n_Test_Cases or
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Installer_Test_Cases.  These
pages aren't used for posting test results, just for grouping related
wiki pages together for easier future navigation.

It seems like you've already started outlining how you wish to gather
test results.  Way to get a head start!  For that, I might recommend
creating a test results wiki page (or pages) similar to
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Fedora_13_Install_Results_Template.
Good news is that you already have the content for this page ... it's
just in the wrong spot.  I've moved the content you created into a new
page ...
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Fedora_13_l10n_Results_Template.  Hope
that helps.

From here, one way I could see you proceeding is ...

     1. Start defining some basic test cases to guide testers.  Be sure
        to link any created test case pages into [[Category:L10n Test
        Cases]]
     2. When testing starts, create a wiki page for each test run (e.g.
        Test_Results:Fedora 13 L10n Alpha Test Results]].  Results will
        be posted to this page, not your template.

Some of this is touched on by two of our existing SOP's [1][2], but if
this is a process you'd like to repeat throughout the release (and
future releases), I'd recommend taking your instructions above and
creating a new [[SOP L10n Test Management]].

Thanks,
James

[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Liam/Draft_Install_Test_SOP
[2] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/SOP_Test_Day_management

[Noriko Mizumoto]

James Laska さんは書きました:
>  On Wed, 2010-01-06 at 12:24 +1000, Noriko Mizumoto wrote:
> > For F13, something like
> >> "https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:L10n_Test_Cases" to be
> written. 
> > Done :-)
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:L10n_Test_Cases
> >
> > This is still incomplete, and I wish everyone to have a look and 
> > complete this list and to add any idea. I meant 'built status' is if 
> > package was built by specified date.
>  
>  Greetings Noriko,
>  
>  Typically, the category wiki pages are mostly a method for organizing
>  related content on the wiki.  So for the [[Category:L10n_Test_Cases]],
>  you might use that to organize different wiki test case pages that have
>  instructions for the l10n testing.  For other examples, take a look at
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:I18n_Test_Cases or
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Installer_Test_Cases.  These
>  pages aren't used for posting test results, just for grouping related
>  wiki pages together for easier future navigation. 
Hi James,
I doubt if translators need further instructions. The one created worked 
so far for F12 internally. But this is just incomplete and need a help 
to improve. Once translators know how to get gui, they know what they 
want to see or check.
The idea I draw in my mind is that one wiki page to be created per 
release, as packages to test may increase/decrease. This is just idea 
and can be improved in anyway.

>  
>  It seems like you've already started outlining how you wish to gather
>  test results.  Way to get a head start!  For that, I might recommend
>  creating a test results wiki page (or pages) similar to
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Fedora_13_Install_Results_Template.
>  Good news is that you already have the content for this page ... it's
>  just in the wrong spot.  I've moved the content you created into a new
>  page ...
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Fedora_13_l10n_Results_Template.  Hope
>  that helps.
>  
>  From here, one way I could see you proceeding is ...
>  
>       1. Start defining some basic test cases to guide testers.  Be sure
>          to link any created test case pages into [[Category:L10n Test
>          Cases]]
>       2. When testing starts, create a wiki page for each test run (e.g.
>          Test_Results:Fedora 13 L10n Alpha Test Results]].  Results will
>          be posted to this page, not your template.
>  
>  Some of this is touched on by two of our existing SOP's [1][2], but if
>  this is a process you'd like to repeat throughout the release (and
>  future releases), I'd recommend taking your instructions above and
>  creating a new [[SOP L10n Test Management]]. 
There are two goals for this review process. One is to have a chance to 
review own work of translation in GUI and check the quality. Second is 
to check if latest translation done reflected in the package. In short 
frame of one week, we filed loads of bugs last time for second goal. 
Those bugs push the thing forwards. Honestly I like to avoid to create 
too much wiki pages specially in that period. But I am happy to create 
any page required.

What I am really looking for is "nightly compose of 2010-03-05" 
available during 2010-03-08 to 2010-03-16 from QA team. With separate 
thread, yet installation media request comes up for reviewing.

Thanks a lot
noriko

[James Laska]

On Thu, 2010-01-07 at 09:25 +1000, Noriko Mizumoto wrote: 
>  James Laska さんは書きました:
>  > On Wed, 2010-01-06 at 12:24 +1000, Noriko Mizumoto wrote:
>  >> For F13, something like
>  >>> "https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:L10n_Test_Cases" to be
> written. 
>  >> Done :-)
>  >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:L10n_Test_Cases
>  >>
>  >> This is still incomplete, and I wish everyone to have a look and 
>  >> complete this list and to add any idea. I meant 'built status' is if 
>  >> package was built by specified date.
>  > 
>  > Greetings Noriko,
>  > 
>  > Typically, the category wiki pages are mostly a method for organizing
>  > related content on the wiki.  So for the [[Category:L10n_Test_Cases]],
>  > you might use that to organize different wiki test case pages that have
>  > instructions for the l10n testing.  For other examples, take a look at
>  > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:I18n_Test_Cases or
>  > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Installer_Test_Cases.  These
>  > pages aren't used for posting test results, just for grouping related
>  > wiki pages together for easier future navigation.
>  
>  Hi James,
>  I doubt if translators need further instructions. The one created worked 
>  so far for F12 internally. But this is just incomplete and need a help 
>  to improve. Once translators know how to get gui, they know what they 
>  want to see or check. 
Is this page available on fp.org/wiki somewhere?  It certainly doesn't
have to be in the [[Template:QA/Test_Case]] format, just something so
that it's clear what work the team _is_ (and isn't) doing.

>  The idea I draw in my mind is that one wiki page to be created per 
>  release, as packages to test may increase/decrease. This is just idea 
>  and can be improved in anyway. 
I see.  So if I understand correctly, eventually you might have the
following set of pages?

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Fedora_13_l10n_Results
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Fedora_14_l10n_Results
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Fedora_15_l10n_Results

>  > It seems like you've already started outlining how you wish
> to gather
>  > test results.  Way to get a head start!  For that, I might recommend
>  > creating a test results wiki page (or pages) similar to
>  > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Fedora_13_Install_Results_Template.
>  > Good news is that you already have the content for this page ... it's
>  > just in the wrong spot.  I've moved the content you created into a new
>  > page ...
>  > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Fedora_13_l10n_Results_Template.  Hope
>  > that helps.
>  > 
>  > From here, one way I could see you proceeding is ...
>  > 
>  >      1. Start defining some basic test cases to guide testers.  Be sure
>  >         to link any created test case pages into [[Category:L10n Test
>  >         Cases]]
>  >      2. When testing starts, create a wiki page for each test run (e.g.
>  >         Test_Results:Fedora 13 L10n Alpha Test Results]].  Results will
>  >         be posted to this page, not your template.
>  > 
>  > Some of this is touched on by two of our existing SOP's [1][2], but if
>  > this is a process you'd like to repeat throughout the release (and
>  > future releases), I'd recommend taking your instructions above and
>  > creating a new [[SOP L10n Test Management]].
>  
>  There are two goals for this review process. One is to have a chance to 
>  review own work of translation in GUI and check the quality. Second is 
>  to check if latest translation done reflected in the package. In short 
>  frame of one week, we filed loads of bugs last time for second goal. 
>  Those bugs push the thing forwards. Honestly I like to avoid to create 
>  too much wiki pages specially in that period. But I am happy to create 
>  any page required. 
As I'm understanding the work involved, I don't think you'll need a
*lot* of pages.  Just a high-level page to describe the
workflow/process, a place to record results, and possibly a template for
use with future test efforts.  Speaking as someone not directly
involved, it's nice to have some basic content available so folks on the
outside have an idea how the testing is being performed ... and if
desired, how to get involved.

>  What I am really looking for is "nightly compose of
> 2010-03-05" 
>  available during 2010-03-08 to 2010-03-16 from QA team. With separate 
>  thread, yet installation media request comes up for reviewing. 
I gather those dates are from task#13 on the Translation schedule [1]?

The QA team doesn't provide/build the compose images, that is a service
provided by release engineering.  Looking at the dates you mention, the
current F-13 QA schedule [2] shows that F-13-Alpha will be available for
translation testing at that time.  Additionally, there are nightly
rawhide live images available [3] if testing against more recent updates
is desired.

Thanks,
James

[1]
http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-13/f-13-trans-tasks.html
[2]
http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-13/f-13-quality-tasks.html
[3]
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/Rawhide#Direct_Rawhide_install_vi...

[Domingo Becker]

2010/1/7 James Laska <jlaska(a)redhat.com&gt;:
>  The QA team doesn't provide/build the compose images, that is a service
>  provided by release engineering.
>  Looking at the dates you mention, the
>  current F-13 QA schedule [2] shows that F-13-Alpha will be available for
>  translation testing at that time. 
Don't ask translators to build a live image from rawhide.
Based on my own experience, it will go wrong.
I was never able to make a 'Live CD from rawhide' work. Something
always goes wrong when booting.
It seems that development people starts from an early installer and
uses the update system since then.

But if we use the Alpha compose to test, and our corrections and
improvements will be present in Alpha 2 or Beta compose to check once
more, that's ok and may work well.
We will need that packagers pay attention to our commits to their repositories.

>  Additionally, there are nightly
>  rawhide live images available [3] if testing against more recent updates
>  is desired.
>  
If these nightly rawhide live images work, it would be good.
But packagers would have to pay attention to our commits in order to
rebuild their packages with newer translations as soon as possible.

My two cents.

kind regards

Domingo Becker (es)

[Noriko Mizumoto]

Domingo Becker さんは書きました:
>  2010/1/7 James Laska <jlaska(a)redhat.com&gt;:
> > The QA team doesn't provide/build the compose images, that is a service
> > provided by release engineering.
> > Looking at the dates you mention, the
> > current F-13 QA schedule [2] shows that F-13-Alpha will be available for
> > translation testing at that time.
>  
>  Don't ask translators to build a live image from rawhide.
>  Based on my own experience, it will go wrong.
>  I was never able to make a 'Live CD from rawhide' work. Something
>  always goes wrong when booting.
>  It seems that development people starts from an early installer and
>  uses the update system since then.
>  
>  But if we use the Alpha compose to test, and our corrections and
>  improvements will be present in Alpha 2 or Beta compose to check once
>  more, that's ok and may work well.
>  We will need that packagers pay attention to our commits to their repositories. 
'Compose alpha candidates' date is 2010-2-18, while 'String freeze' date 
is 2010-02-16. Alpha composed this timing may not contain most of 
new/updated translation strings for review and correction, no?

>  
> > Additionally, there are nightly
> > rawhide live images available [3] if testing against more recent updates
> > is desired.
> >
>  
>  If these nightly rawhide live images work, it would be good.
>  But packagers would have to pay attention to our commits in order to
>  rebuild their packages with newer translations as soon as possible. 
It is said that having a 'nightly-composes of 5-Mar-2010' image 
available for certain period is possible [1]. Someone can give a hand on 
this?

[1]:https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2010-January/msg00019...

noriko

[James Laska]

On Wed, 2010-02-17 at 14:28 +1000, Noriko Mizumoto wrote:
>  Domingo Becker さんは書きました:
>  > 2010/1/7 James Laska <jlaska(a)redhat.com&gt;:
>  >> The QA team doesn't provide/build the compose images, that is a service
>  >> provided by release engineering.
>  >> Looking at the dates you mention, the
>  >> current F-13 QA schedule [2] shows that F-13-Alpha will be available for
>  >> translation testing at that time.
>  > 
>  > Don't ask translators to build a live image from rawhide.
>  > Based on my own experience, it will go wrong.
>  > I was never able to make a 'Live CD from rawhide' work. Something
>  > always goes wrong when booting.
>  > It seems that development people starts from an early installer and
>  > uses the update system since then.
>  > 
>  > But if we use the Alpha compose to test, and our corrections and
>  > improvements will be present in Alpha 2 or Beta compose to check once
>  > more, that's ok and may work well.
>  > We will need that packagers pay attention to our commits to their repositories.
>  
>  'Compose alpha candidates' date is 2010-2-18, while 'String freeze' date
>
>  is 2010-02-16. Alpha composed this timing may not contain most of 
>  new/updated translation strings for review and correction, no? 
As far as I understand, if the compose happens after the string freeze,
the alpha should contain all frozen translation content.

>  > 
>  >> Additionally, there are nightly
>  >> rawhide live images available [3] if testing against more recent updates
>  >> is desired.
>  >>
>  > 
>  > If these nightly rawhide live images work, it would be good.
>  > But packagers would have to pay attention to our commits in order to
>  > rebuild their packages with newer translations as soon as possible.
>  
>  It is said that having a 'nightly-composes of 5-Mar-2010' image 
>  available for certain period is possible [1]. Someone can give a hand on 
>  this?
>  
>  [1]:https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2010-January/msg00019... 
If there is a specific image you need for l10n testing, I'd recommend
submitting a request to release engineering for guidance on hosting the
image.  Several folks could host the image on their fedorapeople.org
pages, but I'd suggest starting with something more formal and rel-eng
can advise alternatives.

https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/newticket

Thanks,
James

[Noriko Mizumoto]

James Laska さんは書きました:
>  On Wed, 2010-02-17 at 14:28 +1000, Noriko Mizumoto wrote:
> > Domingo Becker さんは書きました:
> >> 2010/1/7 James Laska <jlaska(a)redhat.com&gt;:
> >>> The QA team doesn't provide/build the compose images, that is a service
> >>> provided by release engineering.
> >>> Looking at the dates you mention, the
> >>> current F-13 QA schedule [2] shows that F-13-Alpha will be available for
> >>> translation testing at that time.
> >> Don't ask translators to build a live image from rawhide.
> >> Based on my own experience, it will go wrong.
> >> I was never able to make a 'Live CD from rawhide' work. Something
> >> always goes wrong when booting.
> >> It seems that development people starts from an early installer and
> >> uses the update system since then.
> >>
> >> But if we use the Alpha compose to test, and our corrections and
> >> improvements will be present in Alpha 2 or Beta compose to check once
> >> more, that's ok and may work well.
> >> We will need that packagers pay attention to our commits to their repositories.
> > 'Compose alpha candidates' date is 2010-2-18, while 'String freeze'
> date 
> > is 2010-02-16. Alpha composed this timing may not contain most of 
> > new/updated translation strings for review and correction, no?
>  
>  As far as I understand, if the compose happens after the string freeze,
>  the alpha should contain all frozen translation content. 
The alpha should contain all frozen English strings, but after the 
string freeze, updating translation activity becomes most active. Two 
days would be too short to get new/modified strings being translated for 
review and correction purpose.

>  
> >>> Additionally, there are nightly
> >>> rawhide live images available [3] if testing against more recent updates
> >>> is desired.
> >>>
> >> If these nightly rawhide live images work, it would be good.
> >> But packagers would have to pay attention to our commits in order to
> >> rebuild their packages with newer translations as soon as possible.
> > It is said that having a 'nightly-composes of 5-Mar-2010' image 
> > available for certain period is possible [1]. Someone can give a hand on 
> > this?
> >
> > [1]:https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2010-January/msg00019...
>  
>  If there is a specific image you need for l10n testing, I'd recommend
>  submitting a request to release engineering for guidance on hosting the
>  image.  Several folks could host the image on their fedorapeople.org
>  pages, but I'd suggest starting with something more formal and rel-eng
>  can advise alternatives.
>  
>  https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/newticket 
New ticket has been created!  Thank you!
https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/3420

noriko

[Noriko Mizumoto]

> >>
> [1]:https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2010-January/msg00019...
> > If there is a specific image you need for l10n testing, I'd recommend
> > submitting a request to release engineering for guidance on hosting the
> > image.  Several folks could host the image on their fedorapeople.org
> > pages, but I'd suggest starting with something more formal and rel-eng
> > can advise alternatives.
> >
> > https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/newticket
>  
>  New ticket has been created!  Thank you!
>  https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/3420 
FYI
During today's F13 Alpha Readiness Meeting, this has been mentioned and 
marked to go forward. After meeting, had the chat with Jesse, so I can 
say that the compose will be provided on time, stay tuned :-)

noriko