About moving Chinese translations(zh_Hans/zh_Hant) of website to zh_CN and zh_TW languages in Weblate

[Tiansworld]

Hello guys,

The weblate platform performs very well after the migration.
However we(zh_CN and zh_TW teams) are having some teeny issues with it.

That is both of the Chinese translations of Feodra website project are
now under zh_Hans[1] and zh_Hant[2] language codes in Weblate.

Like the other projects, the website project should be moved back to
zh_CN and zh_TW language codes respectively.

The reason for doing this are:

1. I don't want the new contributors confused. They may start the
website translation completely from zh_CN or zh_TW language. Since the
new platform doesn't have a approve procedure, the team or the
coordinator won't know any new contributor, so they don't have the
chance to tell the new one to pay attention to this issue.
2. Weblate will be lighter, with 2 unused language codes removed, the
maintenance work may become easier.

I've opened an disscusion on pagure[3] too, I think website project is
OK with this change.

So I hope our weblate administrators could help us on this.
Thanks.

[1] https://translate.fedoraproject.org/languages/zh_Hans/
[2] https://translate.fedoraproject.org/languages/zh_Hant/
[3] https://pagure.io/fedora-web/websites/issue/129

[Jean-Baptiste Holcroft]

Le 2020-07-21 08:47, Tiansworld a écrit :
> I don't want the new contributors confused. They may start the
>
> website translation completely from zh_CN or zh_TW language. Since the
> new platform doesn't have a approve procedure, the team or the
> coordinator won't know any new contributor, so they don't have the
> chance to tell the new one to pay attention to this issue.
> 2. Weblate will be lighter, with 2 unused language codes removed, the
> maintenance work may become easier.
>
> I've opened an disscusion on pagure[3] too, I think website project is
> OK with this change.

Can't we simply forbid "zh_CN" and "zh_TW" on fedora website or making 
it an alias so either code leads to the same content?

I'm not a fan of using old code "not to confuse new contributors". 
Because in fact, most of the world is using the new one an we - the 
Linux community - are using the old one because of glibc not handling it 
or not seeing the value of this. If my memory is good, I think it was 
related to the number of characters a language code can have.

Whoever in your language community will always have to face this 
challenge until Linux ecosystem fix this bug (the bug is: chineese based 
languages uses obsolete codes).

I suggest to consume energy to make the i18n and glibc people to act on 
the mater.
Last time I tried I failed, but you may find the words I couldn't to 
advocate the matter.
I'm sure other languages with less visibility will benefit this.

Jean-Baptiste

[Shixiong Tian]

On 2/8/2020 10:48 pm, Jean-Baptiste Holcroft wrote:
> Can't we simply forbid "zh_CN" and "zh_TW" on fedora website or making
> it an alias so either code leads to the same content?

Currently website team has already done similar work. The translation
can be shown in the webpage without problem.

I am sorry that I didn't make you fully understand why do I want that move.
> I'm not a fan of using old code "not to confuse new contributors".
> Because in fact, most of the world is using the new one an we - the
> Linux community - are using the old one because of glibc not handling it
> or not seeing the value of this. If my memory is good, I think it was
> related to the number of characters a language code can have.

In fact, I don't really care about the use of the new or the old code name.

When I talked about the "confuse new contributors" in my previous
messages, it is because the projects are not in the same language team
like other languages' are. Most of the projects are in zh_CN/TW, except
that website project is in zh_Hans/zh_Hant. This is my concern, and this
*may* cause the possiblity of unnecessary new translation of the website
project in zh_CN language code team, this is the *confusion* I want to
talk about. Furthermore, the projects should be in the same language
team, like they are in other language teams, like they were in old
platforms(transifex,zanata).
> Whoever in your language community will always have to face this
> challenge until Linux ecosystem fix this bug (the bug is: chineese based
> languages uses obsolete codes).

As a user, I've never met such challenge or haven't noticed it. As a
translator, all I hope is what I said above.
I don't have deep understanding of the bug you mentioned, but we'd
better discuss about it in another post if you like.
> I suggest to consume energy to make the i18n and glibc people to act on
> the mater.

So you want the projects in Chinese languages keep their current status,
one in new language code, and rest of them in old language code.
When upstream fix the bug someday, you will finally move all of the
projects to the new language code(zh_Hans/Hant). Am I right?
> Last time I tried I failed, but you may find the words I couldn't to
> advocate the matter.

Do you mean i18n and glibc won't fix it?
> I'm sure other languages with less visibility will benefit this.

Sorry, I don't understand this.

[Tian Shixiong]

Hi Jean-Baptiste,
Because you don't reply my last message, I guess that you are not agree to move it(them) back.

I've sent a mail to trans-zh_CN mailing list to tell the contributors to pay attention to not spend their time on the wrong project(s). I hope this would avoid the further trouble.

Furthermore, could you please lock the corresponding fedora-website project under zh_CN language in weblate, and lock the nani, rpm projects under Simplified Chinsese(zh_Hans) too?

Le 11 septembre 2020 06:31:25 GMT+02:00, Tian Shixiong  a écrit :
> Hi Jean-Baptiste,
> Because you don't reply my last message, I guess that you are not agree
> to move it(them) back.
>
> I've sent a mail to trans-zh_CN mailing list to tell the contributors
> to pay attention to not spend their time on the wrong project(s). I
> hope this would avoid the further trouble.
>
> Furthermore, could you please lock the corresponding fedora-website
> project under zh_CN language in weblate, and lock the nani, rpm
> projects under Simplified Chinsese(zh_Hans) too? 
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sorry, really old post reply.

to be honest, i don't know how to really solve the issue

as far as i understand it, two language codes meaning the same language, but depending on the platform (android, linux, website), one code or another is used.

i feel like whatever we do will require more and more project specific configuration and will never end.

my only idea to solve that is to align Linux world on the new code, and lock the old code once for all.

would you mind creating a wiki page with a description of the issue, its causes and impact?

maybe we could also use this page to discuss with weblate to see what could be done to help your team?

I'll do whatever I can to migrate the linux ecosystem to a sustainable solution, but an reluctant to make specific configuration per project without knowing we do this to reach a global goal.
--
Jean-Baptiste