Transifex big issues

[Andrea Veri]

Hi,

I've been trying for around 2 hours this evening to submit a translation
in transifex with no success at all.

Pages are too slow (it takes up to two minutes for a page to load), imports
take the committer to get multiple errors and no results are produced since
the .po file don't get imported in the end.

I've then moved my problem to the docs channel and found out that i could
upload my translation through git. I would therefore suggest some of the
translators or main committers to adopt a git account and do stuff manually
until transifex becomes less broken.

Are you guys experiencing this problem as well? if yes, please adopt my
suggestion: it will make everyone's life easier!

Thanks in advance,

Andrea
Fedora Italian Translation Team

[Kévin Raymond]

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 12:52 AM, Andrea Veri  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I've been trying for around 2 hours this evening to submit a translation
> in transifex with no success at all.
>
> Pages are too slow (it takes up to two minutes for a page to load), imports
> take the committer to get multiple errors and no results are produced since
> the .po file don't get imported in the end.
>
> I've then moved my problem to the docs channel and found out that i could
> upload my translation through git. I would therefore suggest some of the
> translators or main committers to adopt a git account and do stuff manually
> until transifex becomes less broken.
>
> Are you guys experiencing this problem as well? if yes, please adopt my
> suggestion: it will make everyone's life easier!
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Andrea
> Fedora Italian Translation Team

Yes we know. This is mainly a database problem (sometimes it works
perfectly, wow!!!).
Our transifex instance (v.0.7) is in an upgrade stage (to v.0.9.1). We
have no idea when the upgrade will be done, nor when the staging
instance would be usable.

How did you get the git commit access? MrTom (thomas) has requested
this access for a long time, and are still waiting for it...

[Andrea Veri]

Il giorno 28/gen/2011, alle ore 09.44, Kévin Raymond ha scritto:
> Yes we know. This is mainly a database problem (sometimes it works
> perfectly, wow!!!).
> Our transifex instance (v.0.7) is in an upgrade stage (to v.0.9.1). We
> have no idea when the upgrade will be done, nor when the staging
> instance would be usable.

well, I am not really sure this update will happen at some point since
I was following a talk on #fedora-admin yesterday night about the 
possibility to move to transifex.net shutting down our translate.fp.org service.
(the main cause is that transifex do *not* have a maintainer at the moment and
moreover the transition from 0.9 to 1.0 seems to be hard to make effective)
> How did you get the git commit access? MrTom (thomas) has requested
> this access for a long time, and are still waiting for it...

I've explained my frustration about me losing hours before trying to commit
a single .po file and I asked for a git access. I would suggest that one/two guys
per translation team should ask for the access and commit translations for the
whole team until a solution has been found. (who knows when and how)

Andrea
Italian Translation Team

[Kévin Raymond]

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 12:31 PM, Andrea Veri  wrote:
> Il giorno 28/gen/2011, alle ore 09.44, Kévin Raymond ha scritto:
> > Yes we know. This is mainly a database problem (sometimes it works
> > perfectly, wow!!!).
> > Our transifex instance (v.0.7) is in an upgrade stage (to v.0.9.1). We
> > have no idea when the upgrade will be done, nor when the staging
> > instance would be usable.
>
> well, I am not really sure this update will happen at some point since
> I was following a talk on #fedora-admin yesterday night about the
> possibility to move to transifex.net shutting down our translate.fp.org service.
> (the main cause is that transifex do *not* have a maintainer at the moment and
> moreover the transition from 0.9 to 1.0 seems to be hard to make effective)

sad news
> > How did you get the git commit access? MrTom (thomas) has requested
> > this access for a long time, and are still waiting for it...
>
> I've explained my frustration about me losing hours before trying to commit
> a single .po file and I asked for a git access. I would suggest that one/two guys
> per translation team should ask for the access and commit translations for the
> whole team until a solution has been found. (who knows when and how)

yes, that was asked few months ago.
Lucky man for having gained access so fast :)

[Thomas Canniot]

Le 28/01/2011 12:31, Andrea Veri a écrit :
> Il giorno 28/gen/2011, alle ore 09.44, Kévin Raymond ha scritto:
> > Yes we know. This is mainly a database problem (sometimes it works
> > perfectly, wow!!!).
> > Our transifex instance (v.0.7) is in an upgrade stage (to v.0.9.1). We
> > have no idea when the upgrade will be done, nor when the staging
> > instance would be usable.
>
> well, I am not really sure this update will happen at some point since
> I was following a talk on #fedora-admin yesterday night about the
> possibility to move to transifex.net shutting down our translate.fp.org service.
> (the main cause is that transifex do *not* have a maintainer at the moment and
> moreover the transition from 0.9 to 1.0 seems to be hard to make effective)

Indeed : Dimitris is already looking how to make this doable :

http://www.transifex.net/projects/p/fedora/
http://www.transifex.net/projects/p/anaconda/

Thomas

[Dimitris Glezos]

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 10:09 AM, Thomas Canniot
 wrote:
> Indeed : Dimitris is already looking how to make this doable :
>
> http://www.transifex.net/projects/p/fedora/
> http://www.transifex.net/projects/p/anaconda/

Talk is cheap, so I decided to go ahead and setup a proof-of-concept
on Transifex.net. Fedora Localization is TOO important to just let the
ball drop. Maybe some folks at FUDCon can also experiment with it.

I went on and uploaded anaconda and usermode, and created the umbrella
Fedora project.

http://www.transifex.net/projects/p/fedora/r/fedora-15/

If you want to play around with Transifex 1.0, just request to create
your own team or join an existing team, and open the web editor for
Anaconda or Usermode.

http://www.transifex.net/projects/p/fedora/teams/
  http://www.transifex.net/projects/p/fedora/r/fedora-15/l/da/

Any translations happened here might won't be pushed to git and will
probably be lost -- especially if we don't use this setup.

One other thing to notice, is that with Tx 1.0+, we can create
language packs. This is what we're doing in the next release of MeeGo.

-d

To add an existing project on Tx
================================

# Create Anaconda project on Tx: Transifex → Projects → Create → Anaconda
# Share teams with Fedora Project: Transifex → Anaconda Project →
Access Control → Outsource
# Push existing translations:
$ git clone http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/anaconda.git
$ cd anaconda
$ tx init
$ tx set --auto-local -r anaconda.master 'po/<lang>.po' --source-lang
en --source-file po/anaconda.pot
$ tx push -s -t
Pushing 'el' translations (file: po/el.po)
Pushing 'gu' translations (file: po/gu.po)
Pushing 'mr' translations (file: po/mr.po)
...
## more info @
## http://help.transifex.net/user-guide/client/client-0.4.html#for-developers
## http://help.transifex.net/user-guide/one-dot-zero.html#migrating-your-projec...

# To include Anaconda in Fedora 15 release:
# Transifex → Fedora Project → Release 15 → Edit
# If you're not a member of the Fedora L10n Admin team, just ping
# us and we'll include your project in the release.

To translate offline Fedora 15
==============================

$ cd my-translations
$ tx set --auto-remote http://www.transifex.net/projects/p/fedora/r/fedora-15/
$ tx pull --language el
$ ll translations/*/el.po
translations/anaconda.master/el.po
translations/usermode.master/el.po

To use translations from Transifex.net
======================================

$ tx pull (or add this in your 'make dist' rule)
$ koji build...

-d

[Dimitris Glezos]

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 3:38 PM, Dimitris Glezos  wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 10:09 AM, Thomas Canniot
>  wrote:
> > Indeed : Dimitris is already looking how to make this doable :
> >
> > http://www.transifex.net/projects/p/fedora/
> > http://www.transifex.net/projects/p/anaconda/
>
> Talk is cheap, so I decided to go ahead and setup a proof-of-concept
> on Transifex.net. Fedora Localization is TOO important to just let the
> ball drop. Maybe some folks at FUDCon can also experiment with it.
>
> I went on and uploaded anaconda and usermode, and created the umbrella
> Fedora project.

I also uploaded a Docs project, just to have one of those there as well.

http://www.transifex.net/projects/p/fedora-release-notes/
  http://www.transifex.net/projects/p/fedora-release-notes/r/master/l/en/

-d

[Yuri Chornoivan]

написане Sat, 29 Jan 2011 01:38:26 +0200, Dimitris Glezos  
:
> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 10:09 AM, Thomas Canniot
>  wrote:
> > Indeed : Dimitris is already looking how to make this doable :
> >
> > http://www.transifex.net/projects/p/fedora/
> > http://www.transifex.net/projects/p/anaconda/

Hi!

Transifex 1.0 effectively breaks Ukrainian translations. Plural form in  
your system is wrong. For example, bundle (anaconda)

Disk %s contains BIOS RAID metadata, but is not part of any recognized  
BIOS RAID sets. Ignoring disk %s.

Disks %s contain BIOS RAID metadata, but are not part of any recognized  
BIOS RAID sets. Ignoring disks %s.

has the following options in translation (current translation was  
gracefully moved to trash):

one:
few:
many:
other:

I cannot even guess from where these forms were taken?

Exported PO-files have the following wrong form for Ukrainian

Plural-Forms: nplurals=4; plural=(n%10==1 && n%100!=11 ? 0 : n%10>=2 &&  
n%10<=4 && (n%100<10 || n%100>=20) ? 1 : 2)\n

The right form

Plural-Forms: nplurals=3; plural=(n%10==1 && n%100!=11 ? 0 : n%10>=2 &&  
n%10<=4 && (n%100<10 || n%100>=20) ? 1 : 2);\n

or

Plural-Forms: nplurals=4; plural=n==1 ? 3 : n%10==1 && n%100!=11 ? 0 :  
n%10>=2 && n%10<=4 && (n%100<10 || n%100>=20) ? 1 : 2;\n

Transifex.net interface is sluggish not faster than today's  
translate.fedoraproject.org.

Until these problems will be ironed out, it seems that tx.net move is very  
premature.

Best regards,
Yuri

[Dimitris Glezos]

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 10:45 PM, Yuri Chornoivan  wrote:
> Transifex 1.0 effectively breaks Ukrainian translations. Plural form in
> your system is wrong. [...]
>
> I cannot even guess from where these forms were taken?

Hi Yuri.

Thanks for taking the time to help report this. The plural forms were
taken from here:

http://unicode.org/repos/cldr-tmp/trunk/diff/supplemental/language_plural_ru...
> The right form
>
> Plural-Forms: nplurals=3; plural=(n%10==1 && n%100!=11 ? 0 : n%10>=2 &&
> n%10<=4 && (n%100<10 || n%100>=20) ? 1 : 2);\n
>
> or
>
> Plural-Forms: nplurals=4; plural=n==1 ? 3 : n%10==1 && n%100!=11 ? 0 :
> n%10>=2 && n%10<=4 && (n%100<10 || n%100>=20) ? 1 : 2;\n

Should we reduce n to 3, or use the latter equation? Where is the
first used and where the last?
> Transifex.net interface is sluggish not faster than today's
> translate.fedoraproject.org.

Can you please be specific? My experience is that most parts are way
faster. We have added tons of caching code and almost the whole
website should be MUCH faster. Especially the important parts of the
site, such as stats, the releases and the web editor. One of the parts
which we will improve in the upcoming release is file exports.

Thanks for testing and providing constructive feedback.

-d

[Yuri Chornoivan]

написане Sat, 29 Jan 2011 10:16:15 +0200, Dimitris Glezos  
:
> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 10:45 PM, Yuri Chornoivan   
> wrote:
> > Transifex 1.0 effectively breaks Ukrainian translations. Plural form in
> > your system is wrong. [...]
> >
> > I cannot even guess from where these forms were taken?
>
> Hi Yuri.
>
> Thanks for taking the time to help report this. The plural forms were
> taken from here:
>
> http://unicode.org/repos/cldr-tmp/trunk/diff/supplemental/language_plural_ru...

Very strange doc. If we use it, then Ukrainian for 1000032 will be "few"  
and 7 will be "many". It is absolutely non-trivial task to know what is  
"few" and what is "many". Some time ago, one of the Russian translators  
(boobaloo) wrote me about this. As it can be easily seen the use of this  
doc just remove the plural translations from Ukrainian Anaconda (though LP  
and Virtaal, for example, just cut off the fourth form (see below)).
> > The right form
> >
> > Plural-Forms: nplurals=3; plural=(n%10==1 && n%100!=11 ? 0 : n%10>=2 &&
> > n%10<=4 && (n%100<10 || n%100>=20) ? 1 : 2);\n
> >
> > or
> >
> > Plural-Forms: nplurals=4; plural=n==1 ? 3 : n%10==1 && n%100!=11 ? 0 :
> > n%10>=2 && n%10<=4 && (n%100<10 || n%100>=20) ? 1 : 2;\n
>
> Should we reduce n to 3, or use the latter equation? Where is the
> first used and where the last?

First (traditional) form is used in Qt (hardcoded), most (but not all)  
GNOME translations (Ukrainian GNOME stagnates now), LP (hardcoded), Pootle  
(hardcoded). Some CAT applications alos have this hardcoded (Virtaal). It  
gives very awkward result in some cases (Shotwell is a prominent example).  
The reason of the problems is the form for 1, 21, 31, 41... This form  
fails in cases like as follows (Shotwell):

msgid "Export Photo/Video"
msgid_plural "Export Photos/Videos"

Any translation with 3 forms will be failure. More dramatic example  
(Showell):

msgid "Unable to duplicate one photo due to a file error"
msgid_plural "Unable to duplicate %d photos due to file errors"

Any translation will be vague for the user. You might think it's just  
usability issue, but developers like it (GNOME, KDE, etc.).

The new form is used in KDE, some TP and GNOME projects. It allows  
correctly translate the given examples.
> > Transifex.net interface is sluggish not faster than today's
> > translate.fedoraproject.org.
>
> Can you please be specific? My experience is that most parts are way
> faster. We have added tons of caching code and almost the whole
> website should be MUCH faster. Especially the important parts of the
> site, such as stats, the releases and the web editor. One of the parts
> which we will improve in the upcoming release is file exports.

AFAIK, users of translate.fedoraproject.org complained not about web  
editor (though there were also complains about this). They complain about  
export and import. Well, test stand:

Core2 Duo 4700, 4 GB RAM, NVidia GeForce 9600 GT, Mandriva 2010.2, KDE  
4.4, Opera 11.01 (well, well, it's not reference Fedora workstation, but  
you can test it by yourself):

txn: 10 s to export Anaconda Ukrainian translation
tfo: 7 s to export Anaconda Ukrainian translation

There is no parity in import (you cannot import Anaconda translation to  
txn), but for me it takes the longer time to import Shotwell translation  
(726 messages) to txn (~1 min + 1 failure with ~3 min waiting) than to  
import anaconda translation to current tfo (~40 s).
> Thanks for testing and providing constructive feedback.
>
> -d

Thanks for correcting this issues.

Yuri