Transifex vs. offline tools

[Yuri Chornoivan]

Hi!

There is a strange sentence in new "Fedora Localization Guide"

But definitely try the web-editor first, since it has many features not  
available when translating offline.

Can somebody guide me to the page with the list of the features "not  
available when translating offline"? If there is no such page, can this  
misleading statement be removed?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

Best regards,
Yuri

[Kévin Raymond]

On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 10:02 AM, Yuri Chornoivan  wrote:
> Hi!
>
> There is a strange sentence in new "Fedora Localization Guide"
>
> But definitely try the web-editor first, since it has many features not
> available when translating offline.
>
> Can somebody guide me to the page with the list of the features "not
> available when translating offline"? If there is no such page, can this
> misleading statement be removed?
>
> Thanks in advance for your answers.
>
> Best regards,
> Yuri

Dimitris would be best to answer, but here are some points:

- Translating with Lotte is faster (no need to download the file, find
it, open it, save it, upload it).
- Lotte send you email while msgmerge fails "If you edited the file
via Lotte, you’ll be notified about errors in an email with the file
attached."[1]. I've never seen that in action. While uploading a file,
I think we only get the error.
- You can write suggestions that can be pondered.
- Translation memory is going to be shared between project for next
release (sorry I could not find the link...)
- probably more. (I don't know if we get them as fuzzy while
downloading in order to translate offline).

Of course, we have just to read users feedback in order to know what
Transifex could provide soon.

Here is my view as translator, but sincerely, I am not using Lotte.
French language really needs to be proofread and we are working
offline. hope to be able soon to upload file as suggestions in order
to discuss them online.

[1] http://help.transifex.net/user-guide/faq.html#faq-index

[Misha Shnurapet]

24.06.2011, 17:48, "Kévin Raymond" :
> On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 10:02 AM, Yuri Chornoivan ; wrote:
> > Hi!
> >
> > There is a strange sentence in new "Fedora Localization Guide"
> >
> > But definitely try the web-editor first, since it has many features not
> >  available when translating offline.
> >
> > Can somebody guide me to the page with the list of the features "not
> >  available when translating offline"? If there is no such page, can this
> >  misleading statement be removed?
> >
> > Thanks in advance for your answers.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >  Yuri
>
> Dimitris would be best to answer, but here are some points:
> Translating with Lotte is faster (no need to download the file, find
>
> it, open it, save it, upload it).
> Lotte send you email while msgmerge fails "If you edited the file
>
> via Lotte, you’ll be notified about errors in an email with the file
> attached."[1]. I've never seen that in action. While uploading a file,
> I think we only get the error.
> You can write suggestions that can be pondered.
> Translation memory is going to be shared between project for next
>
> release (sorry I could not find the link...)
> probably more. (I don't know if we get them as fuzzy while
>
> downloading in order to translate offline).
>
> Of course, we have just to read users feedback in order to know what
> Transifex could provide soon.
>
> Here is my view as translator, but sincerely, I am not using Lotte.
> French language really needs to be proofread and we are working
> offline. hope to be able soon to upload file as suggestions in order
> to discuss them online.
>
> [1] http://help.transifex.net/user-guide/faq.html#faq-index
>
> --
> Kévin Raymond
> User:shaiton
> GPG-Key: A5BCB3A2
> --
> trans mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans

Lotte is the new Rosetta where it's easy for a hunderd people to do their thing each one's own way without consideration of previous work and render translations gibberish at end.

[Kévin Raymond]

On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Misha Shnurapet
 wrote:
> 24.06.2011, 17:48, "Kévin Raymond" :
> > On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 10:02 AM, Yuri Chornoivan ; wrote:
> > > Hi!
> > >
> > > There is a strange sentence in new "Fedora Localization Guide"
> > >
> > > But definitely try the web-editor first, since it has many features not
> > >  available when translating offline.
> > >
> > > Can somebody guide me to the page with the list of the features "not
> > >  available when translating offline"? If there is no such page, can this
> > >  misleading statement be removed?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance for your answers.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >  Yuri
> >
> > Dimitris would be best to answer, but here are some points:
> > Translating with Lotte is faster (no need to download the file, find
> >
> > it, open it, save it, upload it).
> > Lotte send you email while msgmerge fails "If you edited the file
> >
> > via Lotte, you’ll be notified about errors in an email with the file
> > attached."[1]. I've never seen that in action. While uploading a file,
> > I think we only get the error.
> > You can write suggestions that can be pondered.
> > Translation memory is going to be shared between project for next
> >
> > release (sorry I could not find the link...)
> > probably more. (I don't know if we get them as fuzzy while
> >
> > downloading in order to translate offline).
> >
> > Of course, we have just to read users feedback in order to know what
> > Transifex could provide soon.
> >
> > Here is my view as translator, but sincerely, I am not using Lotte.
> > French language really needs to be proofread and we are working
> > offline. hope to be able soon to upload file as suggestions in order
> > to discuss them online.
> >
> > [1] http://help.transifex.net/user-guide/faq.html#faq-index
> >
> > --
> > Kévin Raymond
> > User:shaiton
> > GPG-Key: A5BCB3A2
> > --
> > trans mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans
>
> Lotte is the new Rosetta where it's easy for a hunderd people to do their thing each one's own way without consideration of previous work and render translations gibberish at end.

You could still download, translate and upload your file without
notifying others.
That's why I would like the following to be implemented:
http://getsatisfaction.com/indifex/topics/commit_files_as_suggestion
Translate, submit and discuss before "pushing". (This is useful for
heavy files, not really if there are less than 20 strings).
But memory translation cross project would help avoiding what you
said. It's a tool, we need to define how we use it by team. There is
not only one way because in some project there are to much to
translate, in other we need to proofread many times depending on the
language..

[Tiansworld]

> You could still download, translate and upload your file without
> notifying others.
> That's why I would like the following to be implemented:
> http://getsatisfaction.com/indifex/topics/commit_files_as_suggestion
> Translate, submit and discuss before "pushing". (This is useful for
> heavy files, not really if there are less than 20 strings).
> But memory translation cross project would help avoiding what you
> said. It's a tool, we need to define how we use it by team. There is
> not only one way because in some project there are to much to
> translate, in other we need to proofread many times depending on the
> language..

Translate, submit then push would be quite useful. We can just focus
on translating, without any worry on whether the file will be wrong
replaced. We can decide which translation should be pushed to
maintainer finally.

[Misha Shnurapet]

24.06.2011, 21:59, "tiansworld" :
> > You could still download, translate and upload your file without
> >  notifying others.
> >  That's why I would like the following to be implemented:
> >  http://getsatisfaction.com/indifex/topics/commit_files_as_suggestion
> >  Translate, submit and discuss before "pushing". (This is useful for
> >  heavy files, not really if there are less than 20 strings).
> >  But memory translation cross project would help avoiding what you
> >  said. It's a tool, we need to define how we use it by team. There is
> >  not only one way because in some project there are to much to
> >  translate, in other we need to proofread many times depending on the
> >  language..
>
> Translate, submit then push would be quite useful. We can just focus
> on translating, without any worry on whether the file will be wrong
> replaced. We can decide which translation should be pushed to
> maintainer finally.

Translation changes could be monitored using docs-commits mailing list till Fedora 14. It was quite useful for me to receive diff-formatted digests along with the person's contact details. I could proofread the changed part and apply corrections myself or contact the translator right away. It was also a good means to prevent destructive changes, in case of.

Now it is different. I don't receive notifications when the modules are being altered in Transifex disregard subscriptions. I don't see the input and don't know to what extent the work is being done by each translator.

I'd like to ask for the previous functionality to be restored on the new platform if it's possible.

[Kévin Raymond]

2011/6/24 Misha Shnurapet :
> 24.06.2011, 21:59, "tiansworld" :
> > > You could still download, translate and upload your file without
> > >  notifying others.
> > >  That's why I would like the following to be implemented:
> > >  http://getsatisfaction.com/indifex/topics/commit_files_as_suggestion
> > >  Translate, submit and discuss before "pushing". (This is useful for
> > >  heavy files, not really if there are less than 20 strings).
> > >  But memory translation cross project would help avoiding what you
> > >  said. It's a tool, we need to define how we use it by team. There is
> > >  not only one way because in some project there are to much to
> > >  translate, in other we need to proofread many times depending on the
> > >  language..
> >
> > Translate, submit then push would be quite useful. We can just focus
> > on translating, without any worry on whether the file will be wrong
> > replaced. We can decide which translation should be pushed to
> > maintainer finally.
>
> Translation changes could be monitored using docs-commits mailing list till Fedora 14. It was quite useful for me to receive diff-formatted digests along with the person's contact details. I could proofread the changed part and apply corrections myself or contact the translator right away. It was also a good means to prevent destructive changes, in case of.
>
> Now it is different. I don't receive notifications when the modules are being altered in Transifex disregard subscriptions. I don't see the input and don't know to what extent the work is being done by each translator.

This is handled by Transifex.net. But you need to
* watch the file (upper right on the translation details window)
* change your account settings to send an email when there is an update.

I don't know if there is a diff, not sure at all.
But in the old process, while you were able to read the diff, the push
was already done.
> I'd like to ask for the previous functionality to be restored on the new platform if it's possible.
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Misha Shnurapet, Fedora Project Contributor
> Email: shnurapet AT fedoraproject.org, IRC: misha on freenode
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/shnurapet, GPG: 00217306
> --
> trans mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans

[Misha Shnurapet]

25.06.2011, 02:48, "Kévin Raymond" :
> This is handled by Transifex.net. But you need to
> watch the file (upper right on the translation details window)
> change your account settings to send an email when there is an update.

Oh, thanks. I wasn't aware of the notification settings. I think the translation change notifications should be enabled by default.
> I don't know if there is a diff, not sure at all.

Nope, no diff. I miss it. You can't say whether someone fixed a one-letter typo or contributed over 50 strings. It says "please, visit Transifex at <...> in order to see the changes", but there is the modules list only.
> But in the old process, while you were able to read the diff, the push
> was already done.

It's okay because there is always a significant delay before the changes actually show up.

[Dimitris Glezos]

On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 2:23 PM, Misha Shnurapet 
wrote:
> > I don't know if there is a diff, not sure at all.
>
> Nope, no diff. I miss it. You can't say whether someone fixed a one-letter
> typo or contributed over 50 strings.

I use the Tx client and a small local VCS of mine to view these.

$ hg init
  $ tx init
  $ tx set --auto-remote <Fedora-Release-URL>
  $ tx pull
  $ hg commit -a -m 'snapshot!'
  ### Every time changes happen which I want to review:
  $ tx pull
  $ hg commit -A -m 'snapshot!'
  $ hg log -r tip --patch

At some point Tx should be able to say what has changed when a file is pushed
or changed in Lotte, eg:

<Project>:<Resource>: User <John> has updated the <German> translation:
                        152 words translated, 5 new suggestions.
> > But in the old process, while you were able to read the diff, the push was
> > already done.
>
> It's okay because there is always a significant delay before the changes
> actually show up.

Can you please open a ticket using the Feedback button on what exactly doesn't
happen that it should?

Thanks for the feedback!

-d

[Dimitris Glezos]

On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 11:02 AM, Yuri Chornoivan  wrote:
> There is a strange sentence in new "Fedora Localization Guide"
>
> But definitely try the web-editor first, since it has many features not
> available when translating offline.
>
> Can somebody guide me to the page with the list of the features "not
> available when translating offline"?

This section from the help pages explains some of the extra features
available in Lotte. (just added a couple more for your convenience).

http://help.transifex.net/user-guide/translating.html#extra-features

The above help pages are available in an hg repo, in case you'd like
to help fellow translators by adding more content.

http://code.indifex.com/transifex-docs
> If there is no such page, can this misleading statement be removed?

Feel free to remove the sentence if you don't like it.

-d