Revisiting the translation freeze policies

[Randy Barlow]

Greetings!

During Friday's FESCo meeting[0] we were asked to approve a change to
the release schedule to accommodate translation string freeze deadlines
that somehow got left out of the new "no-alphas" schedule.

Several participants pointed out that Fedora has not enforced the
"string freeze" in many years, despite it being on the schedule until
now. Thus, we would like to revisit the string freeze policy to
determine if it is still valuable, and if so, how can/should it be enforced?

We'd like to explore a couple of questions:

* What exact things are frozen? Things like comps make sense to follow
  Fedora freezes, but do things like anaconda? or system-config-printer?

* Can we automate some way of enforcing or at least detecting when
  something changes a string in the freeze?

This ticket tracks the issue:

https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1777

[0]
https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/teams/fesco/fesco.2017-09-22-16.00.html

[Jean-Baptiste Holcroft]

Le 25/09/2017 à 21:18, Randy Barlow a écrit :
> Greetings!
>
> During Friday's FESCo meeting[0] we were asked to approve a change to
> the release schedule to accommodate translation string freeze deadlines
> that somehow got left out of the new "no-alphas" schedule.
>
> Several participants pointed out that Fedora has not enforced the
> "string freeze" in many years, despite it being on the schedule until
> now. Thus, we would like to revisit the string freeze policy to
> determine if it is still valuable, and if so, how can/should it be enforced?
>
> We'd like to explore a couple of questions:
>
> What exact things are frozen? Things like comps make sense to follow
>  Fedora freezes, but do things like anaconda? or system-config-printer?
>
> Can we automate some way of enforcing or at least detecting when
>  something changes a string in the freeze?
>
> This ticket tracks the issue:
>
> https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1777

Hi Randy,

well, I think this was discussed already twice.

First, the link you already had for your meeting: 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]/...
Second, in our last meeting: 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]/...

* First question: "What exact things are frozen? Things like comps make 
sense to follow Fedora freezes, but do things like anaconda? or 
system-config-printer?"

* My suggestion would be to get some help from Fesco to make our 
translator list (priority package from Zanata) an distribution-wide list.
      * As we know, there is no way to force this, only communicate and 
convince upstream that it's a benefit for everyone.

* Second question: "Can we automate some way of enforcing or at least 
detecting when something changes a string in the freeze?"

* We are doing a proof of concept with transtats for F28, if this 
works, it should answer the question

I don't think we can go any further for now, the subject is wide, and 
the solution is not trivial.
Our next meeting is Monday (October 9th), if no more reaction either 
here or in https://pagure.io/g11n/issue/42 I think we should use this as 
work hypotheses for the 1st question, and reopen the automation subject 
after our proof of concept.

Have a nice day,

[Noriko Mizumoto]

Hi Randy

Pls see inline. I might be responding slow due to my paid work, but I hope
this is not too late yet.

On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 5:42 AM, Jean-Baptiste Holcroft <
[e-mail]> wrote:
> Le 25/09/2017 à 21:18, Randy Barlow a écrit :
> > Greetings!
> >
> > During Friday's FESCo meeting[0] we were asked to approve a change to
> > the release schedule to accommodate translation string freeze deadlines
> > that somehow got left out of the new "no-alphas" schedule.
> >
> > Several participants pointed out that Fedora has not enforced the
> > "string freeze" in many years, despite it being on the schedule until
> > now. Thus, we would like to revisit the string freeze policy to
> > determine if it is still valuable, and if so, how can/should it be
> > enforced?
> >
> > We'd like to explore a couple of questions:
> >
> > What exact things are frozen? Things like comps make sense to follow
> >  Fedora freezes, but do things like anaconda? or system-config-printer?
> >
> > Can we automate some way of enforcing or at least detecting when
> >  something changes a string in the freeze?
> >
> > This ticket tracks the issue:
> >
> > https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1777
>
> Hi Randy,
>
> well, I think this was discussed already twice.
>
> First, the link you already had for your meeting:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]
> doraproject.org/thread/XVX4YQCN4MVCHBSSNXMAWOFGMNSUAUTR/
> Second, in our last meeting: https://lists.fedoraproject.or
> g/archives/list/[e-mail]/message/L52XG2
> XKGVSGORL5GRBHCETOOWBXP224/
> First question: "What exact things are frozen? Things like comps make
>
> sense to follow Fedora freezes, but do things like anaconda? or
> system-config-printer?"
>  * My suggestion would be to get some help from Fesco to make our
>
> translator list (priority package from Zanata) an distribution-wide list.
>      * As we know, there is no way to force this, only communicate and
> convince upstream that it's a benefit for everyone.

+1, to Jean-Baptiste
Let me add a bit of what exactly would be helpful for us.

I strongly hope, many of packages should be able to follow the software
string freeze just being implemented recently by Jan. Could you confirm
this works on your side? In case not, we have to discuss further.

I understand that you are pointing some specific packages which likely need
changes after the deadline, such as comps, anaconda, etc. For these, most
likely and hystorically, translation team could/can accommodate late
change, if a developer explicitly inform us.

So one step up, let me propose/ask my idea if it works;
Can you of FESCO (and developers) coordinate/collect the information of
which packages need to get translation update after the deadline (aka last
minute change) from the developers, and inform us with the break list with
the date by when the developers would like to receive the translation
update?
> Second question: "Can we automate some way of enforcing or at least
>
> detecting when something changes a string in the freeze?"
>  * We are doing a proof of concept with transtats for F28, if this
>
> works, it should answer the question

For this, I think, a developer knows a change cz he makes a change (aka
accountable). As above, some coordination and communication would help here
a lot, I believe. Btw, it would be nice to have an automate tool.

Thanks for reading me.

noriko
> I don't think we can go any further for now, the subject is wide, and the
> solution is not trivial.
> Our next meeting is Monday (October 9th), if no more reaction either here
> or in https://pagure.io/g11n/issue/42 I think we should use this as work
> hypotheses for the 1st question, and reopen the automation subject after
> our proof of concept.
>
> Have a nice day,
>
> --
> Jean-Baptiste Holcroft
>
> trans mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]

[Noriko Mizumoto]

Hi Randy,
Sorry, I was bit of behind and gave improper comment previously. Now I
think I caught up where we are. Let me do it again. Please see inline.

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 5:18 AM, Randy Barlow 
wrote:
> Greetings!
>
> During Friday's FESCo meeting[0] we were asked to approve a change to
> the release schedule to accommodate translation string freeze deadlines
> that somehow got left out of the new "no-alphas" schedule.
>
> Several participants pointed out that Fedora has not enforced the
> "string freeze" in many years, despite it being on the schedule until
> now. Thus, we would like to revisit the string freeze policy to
> determine if it is still valuable, and if so, how can/should it be
> enforced?
>
> We'd like to explore a couple of questions:
> What exact things are frozen? Things like comps make sense to follow
> Fedora freezes, but do things like anaconda? or system-config-printer?

I've read through those, and it seems to me still valid and important for
Translation team.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N_Freezes#string_freeze
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Software_String_Freeze_Policy

For anaconda or s-c-printer, 'string freeze policy' should work. Most
likely we've been giving +2. If any particular concern on the developers
side, please share.
> Can we automate some way of enforcing or at least detecting when
> something changes a string in the freeze?

At last G11N FAD, i18n team raised their hand to explore some possibility
of developing a tool for detection (String Breakage monitoring by Jens and
Akira). Could you kindly check with i18n team as well?  Or Pravin can
connect?

G11N FAD Tokyo Summary:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/17LU-PmtuirbGd7wfxUuKTz7X6fsv82PVPgZaDELi...

noriko
> This ticket tracks the issue:
>
> https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1777
>
> [0]
> https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/teams/fesco/fesco.2017-09-22-16.00.html
> _______________________________________________
> trans mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]

[aca]

Hi,

I would like to help with the translation but it is unfortunate that
Filipino Language was not available. I hope I can be of service to other
Fedora initiative other than Translation.

Regards,

Alvin

On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 4:14 PM, Noriko Mizumoto 
wrote:
> Hi Randy,
> Sorry, I was bit of behind and gave improper comment previously. Now I
> think I caught up where we are. Let me do it again. Please see inline.
>
> On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 5:18 AM, Randy Barlow <
> [e-mail]> wrote:
> > Greetings!
> >
> > During Friday's FESCo meeting[0] we were asked to approve a change to
> > the release schedule to accommodate translation string freeze deadlines
> > that somehow got left out of the new "no-alphas" schedule.
> >
> > Several participants pointed out that Fedora has not enforced the
> > "string freeze" in many years, despite it being on the schedule until
> > now. Thus, we would like to revisit the string freeze policy to
> > determine if it is still valuable, and if so, how can/should it be
> > enforced?
> >
> > We'd like to explore a couple of questions:
> > What exact things are frozen? Things like comps make sense to follow
> > Fedora freezes, but do things like anaconda? or system-config-printer?
>
> I've read through those, and it seems to me still valid and important for
> Translation team.
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N_Freezes#string_freeze
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Software_String_Freeze_Policy
>
> For anaconda or s-c-printer, 'string freeze policy' should work. Most
> likely we've been giving +2. If any particular concern on the developers
> side, please share.
> > Can we automate some way of enforcing or at least detecting when
> > something changes a string in the freeze?
>
> At last G11N FAD, i18n team raised their hand to explore some possibility
> of developing a tool for detection (String Breakage monitoring by Jens and
> Akira). Could you kindly check with i18n team as well?  Or Pravin can
> connect?
>
> G11N FAD Tokyo Summary: https://docs.google.com/document/d/17LU-
> PmtuirbGd7wfxUuKTz7X6fsv82PVPgZaDELi4js/edit#heading=h.3gzh0ubdx8oy
>
> noriko
> > This ticket tracks the issue:
> >
> > https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1777
> >
> > [0]
> > https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/teams/fesco/fesco.2017-09-22-16.00.html
> > _______________________________________________
> > trans mailing list -- [e-mail]
> > To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
>
> trans mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]

Filipino Language - Was: Re: Revisiting the translation freeze policies

[Jean-Baptiste Holcroft]

Le 12/10/2017 à 07:01, aca a écrit :
> Hi,
>
> I would like to help with the translation but it is unfortunate that 
> Filipino Language was not available. I hope I can be of service to 
> other Fedora initiative other than Translation.
>
> Regards,
>
> Alvin

Hi Alvin, well, I'm sure it is possible to add it to Zanata. The 
language code is "fil".

But there is a few verification to do, I created this ticket for our 
follow up:

https://pagure.io/g11n/issue/43

Once you'll be able to translate in Filipino, you'll have the challenge 
to find some help, there is a huge amount of things you may translate, 
you'll have to focus on some key content. We'll help you if needed 
(communication, language specific issues, ...).

Have a nice day,

PS : please give some attention to mailing-list guidelines, it is our 
main communication tool, we have to give it some love :) To me, key 
points are: no top-posting, no HTML and one thread = one subject. Full 
reading: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines