comps change for Fedora 11: removal of specspo?

[Bill Nottingham]

A week ago we were dealing with how to make both the DVD images
fit on a DVD, and the Live images fit on a CD. We made the decision
to remove specspo from the base group:

http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/comps/comps-f11.xml.in?r1=1.210&r...

based on the following reasons:

1) The translations in it have not been updated since October of 2007
2) I was unable to ascertain a functional upstream for this package,
so there both are no updated translations that could be pulled, nor
a way to actually submit updated ones

That being said, in retrospect, this should be run past the localization
steering committee.

Would you prefer obsolete, incomplete, and unfixable (at this time) 
translations for package summaries and descriptions over no translations?

If so, we can put this back and try and find the space elsewhere.

Bill

[Dimitris Glezos]

On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Bill Nottingham <notting(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  A week ago we were dealing with how to make both the DVD images
>  fit on a DVD, and the Live images fit on a CD. We made the decision
>  to remove specspo from the base group:
>
>  http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/comps/comps-f11.xml.in?r1=1.210&r...
>
>  based on the following reasons:
>
>  1) The translations in it have not been updated since October of 2007
>  2) I was unable to ascertain a functional upstream for this package,
>  so there both are no updated translations that could be pulled, nor
>  a way to actually submit updated ones 
> From what I see, translations have been submitted for this module for
> F9 & F10: 
 -
http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/specspo/dist/summary/?root=elvis&...
 -
http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/specspo/dist/desc/?root=elvis&sor...

>  That being said, in retrospect, this should be run past the
> localization
>  steering committee.
>
>  Would you prefer obsolete, incomplete, and unfixable (at this time)
>  translations for package summaries and descriptions over no translations?
>
>  If so, we can put this back and try and find the space elsewhere. 
I'd prefer this, to be honest. Any translations are better than no
translations. To avoid submitting to this module, we can just disable
it in Tx (it already is disabled, BTW).

Let's make sure in the future this gets mentioned before the
development freeze, if possible. AFAICT no translation work has been
done for this release.

-d





-- 
Dimitris Glezos
Jabber ID: glezos(a)jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B
http://dimitris.glezos.com/

"He who gives up functionality for ease of use
loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous)
--

[Bill Nottingham]

Dimitris Glezos (dimitris(a)glezos.com) said: 
>  > 1) The translations in it have not been updated since October of
> 2007
>  > 2) I was unable to ascertain a functional upstream for this package,
>  > so there both are no updated translations that could be pulled, nor
>  > a way to actually submit updated ones
>  
>  From what I see, translations have been submitted for this module for F9 & F10:
>  
>   -
> http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/specspo/dist/summary/?root=elvis&...
>   -
> http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/specspo/dist/desc/?root=elvis&sor...
And then elvis left the building. (I'm not even sure where to try and
get those bits from now.)

>  > If so, we can put this back and try and find the space
> elsewhere.
>  
>  I'd prefer this, to be honest. Any translations are better than no
>  translations. To avoid submitting to this module, we can just disable
>  it in Tx (it already is disabled, BTW).
>  
>  Let's make sure in the future this gets mentioned before the
>  development freeze, if possible. AFAICT no translation work has been
>  done for this release. 
I'd agree that no work has been done, merely because it appears to be
impossible at the moment to do any.

Bill

[Stepan Kasal]

Hello,

On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 08:47:33PM +0300, Dimitris Glezos wrote:
>  On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Bill Nottingham
> <notting(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  > 2) I was unable to ascertain a functional upstream for this package,
>  > so there both are no updated translations that could be pulled, nor
>  > a way to actually submit updated ones 
I'm the upstream, so it was my duty to move the templates to the
translation team and pack back the translation, and I failed to do
this.

A related fact is that when I looked around after I got specspo,
I noted that the misdesign tends to prefer obsolete translations,
even obsolete copies of the English descriptions to the one stored in
rpm database.  I submitted a bug about it, but then I got burnt out,
did not watch the status of the bug, nor did maintain the old data
structure properly.

Moreover, I thought that when a bug caused that rpm did not display
any translation, it got very long until anyone noticed.
Consequently, I had the impression that very few people are
interested in the translated descriptions.
That impression might have been false...  It might have been a
mistake that I accepted the specspo package being the type who lives
in the LANG=POSIX exclusively.

Back to the original question: I think that the descriptions have the
tendency to change very infrequently, so it still might be worth it
to include the obsolete rpm.

Yes, I admit that I have made a big mistake.
Now, when this has been brought to my attention, is there anything I
can do to help?  I think I could still rebuild with the newly
submitted translations, perhaps it could be pushed to F11 even though
we are in freeze?

I'm afraid the long term solution should probably be to find someone
who is at least minimally interested in translations, instalation
process, and/or pirut^Wwhats-the-current-rpm-gui-frontend.

Again, I'm sorry that I did not manage to pay attention to specspo.

Cheers,
	Stepan

[Domingo Becker]

2009/5/13 Bill Nottingham <notting(a)redhat.com&gt;:
>  A week ago we were dealing with how to make both the DVD images
>  fit on a DVD, and the Live images fit on a CD. We made the decision
>  to remove specspo from the base group:
>
>  http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/comps/comps-f11.xml.in?r1=1.210&r...
>
>  based on the following reasons:
>
>  1) The translations in it have not been updated since October of 2007
>  2) I was unable to ascertain a functional upstream for this package,
>  so there both are no updated translations that could be pulled, nor
>  a way to actually submit updated ones
>
>  That being said, in retrospect, this should be run past the localization
>  steering committee.
>
>  Would you prefer obsolete, incomplete, and unfixable (at this time)
>  translations for package summaries and descriptions over no translations?
>
>  If so, we can put this back and try and find the space elsewhere.
>  
It's preferable to remove it from the installation media if space is needed.
The Spanish team has many translations there but it's useless if we
will only see them when installing.
Nobody pays attention to those strings when package installation has started.

2009/5/13 Stepan Kasal <skasal(a)redhat.com&gt;:
>  Yes, I admit that I have made a big mistake.
>  Now, when this has been brought to my attention, is there anything I
>  can do to help?  I think I could still rebuild with the newly
>  submitted translations, perhaps it could be pushed to F11 even though
>  we are in freeze?
>
>  I'm afraid the long term solution should probably be to find someone
>  who is at least minimally interested in translations, instalation
>  process, and/or pirut^Wwhats-the-current-rpm-gui-frontend.
>
>  Again, I'm sorry that I did not manage to pay attention to specspo.
>  
No problem Stepan.
As upstream, let me ask you for the possibility to search in the
summary and desc fields in gpk-application, using the translated
strings.
This way, we will be able to give a good use of the translations.

After the merge of core and extras repositories, the number of
packages growth so much that it's hard to find something with
gpk-application in English. And I do understand a little ! So imagine
the situation for someone who doesn't understand English.
That's the best use we can give to the translations of summary and desc. IMHO

It is almost everything there, in the repositories. There's no need to
download nothing from source and compile it to use it. But it's hard
to find the package to install, because gpk-application only searches
in the package name field.
There are others improvements, of course, like searching a package
with a filename in the filelist field. But let's start with the use of
translations for searching.

kind regards

Domingo Becker (es)

[Igor Pires Soares]

Em Qua, 2009-05-13 às 19:30 -0300, Domingo Becker escreveu:
>  2009/5/13 Stepan Kasal <skasal(a)redhat.com&gt;:
>  >
>  > Yes, I admit that I have made a big mistake.
>  > Now, when this has been brought to my attention, is there anything I
>  > can do to help?  I think I could still rebuild with the newly
>  > submitted translations, perhaps it could be pushed to F11 even though
>  > we are in freeze?
>  >
>  > I'm afraid the long term solution should probably be to find someone
>  > who is at least minimally interested in translations, instalation
>  > process, and/or pirut^Wwhats-the-current-rpm-gui-frontend.
>  >
>  > Again, I'm sorry that I did not manage to pay attention to specspo.
>  >
>  
>  No problem Stepan.
>  As upstream, let me ask you for the possibility to search in the
>  summary and desc fields in gpk-application, using the translated
>  strings.
>  This way, we will be able to give a good use of the translations. 
I guess this is related to bug #487614. If you are able to test
Packagekit from git master please drop a note in bugzilla.

IMHO it is important to keep the specspo package at least for now,
although I agree it doesn't have a good design. By the way I remember a
post from Richard Hughes telling about some plans to avoid parsing all
the translation data in specspo, using individual descriptions of each
package. Anyway, when we work as a team on a big translation like
specspo we hope it will be helpful for several releases, so I agree with
Dimitris, any translations are better than no translations.


Regards,
Igor Pires Soares

[Bill Nottingham]

Stepan Kasal (skasal(a)redhat.com) said: 
>  Now, when this has been brought to my attention, is there anything I
>  can do to help?  I think I could still rebuild with the newly
>  submitted translations, perhaps it could be pushed to F11 even though
>  we are in freeze? 
If you have access to a recent source tree with submissions
(I couldn't find one), build it and request a rel-eng tag.

In the mean time, I'll restore it to comps.

Bill