string freeze break?!

[Noriko Mizumoto]

Hi

I've been reported that some packages have still been updated everyday 
basis.
Unfortunately there is no effective mean to track and handle those 
automatically atm. But I do understand the pain.

For now, it is recommended to all translators to watch this list 
carefully if any string freeze break is announced. In case you notice 
any package update without announcement, please notify us in this list 
so that a warning message can be sent to that maintainer.

Due to the bugs filed from our review, some packages may regenerate 
their POT. The list of bugs can be found at 
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/UpdatePot.

noriko

[Kris Thomsen]

Hi Noriko,

Yeah, I experienced this too. It's quite annoying, cause in danish
FOSS-translation team we review our translations, so it can take a little
while to get the translations ready - so maybe we can't get the danish
translation ready for Fedora 12 release :)

// Kris

2009/9/23 Noriko Mizumoto <noriko(a)redhat.com&gt;

>  Hi
>
>  I've been reported that some packages have still been updated everyday
>  basis.
>  Unfortunately there is no effective mean to track and handle those
>  automatically atm. But I do understand the pain.
>
>  For now, it is recommended to all translators to watch this list carefully
>  if any string freeze break is announced. In case you notice any package
>  update without announcement, please notify us in this list so that a warning
>  message can be sent to that maintainer.
>
>  Due to the bugs filed from our review, some packages may regenerate their
>  POT. The list of bugs can be found at
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/UpdatePot.
>
>  noriko
>
>  --
>  Fedora-trans-list mailing list
>  Fedora-trans-list(a)redhat.com
>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-list
>

[Xavi Conde]

Hi,

2009/9/23 Kris Thomsen <lakristho(a)gmail.com&gt;:
>  Hi Noriko,
>
>  Yeah, I experienced this too. It's quite annoying, cause in danish
>  FOSS-translation team we review our translations, so it can take a little
>  while to get the translations ready - so maybe we can't get the danish
>  translation ready for Fedora 12 release :)
>  
may I suggest that in fact there's no such thing as a "Fedora string
freeze"? It would make our live easier not to expect its existence.
Knowing the date when packages will be rebuilt should be enough for
our planning.

Regards!
-- 
"There's no dark side of the moon, really. As a matter of fact, it's all
dark."

Un bloc de cinépatas: http://banda-aparte.blog-city.com/
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/xaviconde

[Kris Thomsen]

Xavi,

2009/9/23 Xavi Conde <xavi.conde(a)gmail.com&gt;

>  Hi,
>
>  2009/9/23 Kris Thomsen <lakristho(a)gmail.com&gt;:
>  > Hi Noriko,
>  >
>  > Yeah, I experienced this too. It's quite annoying, cause in danish
>  > FOSS-translation team we review our translations, so it can take a little
>  > while to get the translations ready - so maybe we can't get the danish
>  > translation ready for Fedora 12 release :)
>  >
>
>  may I suggest that in fact there's no such thing as a "Fedora string
>  freeze"? It would make our live easier not to expect its existence.
>  Knowing the date when packages will be rebuilt should be enough for
>  our planning.
>  
According to our plan, it seems that the packages would be rebuilt September
22?

>  Regards!
>  --
>  "There's no dark side of the moon, really. As a matter of fact, it's all
>  dark."
>
>  Un bloc de cinépatas: http://banda-aparte.blog-city.com/
>  Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/xaviconde
>
>  --
>  Fedora-trans-list mailing list
>  Fedora-trans-list(a)redhat.com
>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-list
>

[Ville-Pekka Vainio]

ke, 2009-09-23 kello 08:58 +0200, Xavi Conde kirjoitti:
>  may I suggest that in fact there's no such thing as a
> "Fedora string
>  freeze"? It would make our live easier not to expect its existence. 
Based on the experiences during this Fedora 12 development cycle, +1.
There have been so many (unannounced) string freeze breaks that I see
the string freeze as almost useless. Many developers simply don't seem
to care.

-- 
Ville-Pekka Vainio

[Kris Thomsen]

Comments below.

// Kris

2009/9/23 Ville-Pekka Vainio <vpivaini(a)cs.helsinki.fi&gt;

>  ke, 2009-09-23 kello 08:58 +0200, Xavi Conde kirjoitti:
>  > may I suggest that in fact there's no such thing as a "Fedora string
>  > freeze"? It would make our live easier not to expect its existence.
>
>  Based on the experiences during this Fedora 12 development cycle, +1.
>  There have been so many (unannounced) string freeze breaks that I see
>  the string freeze as almost useless. Many developers simply don't seem
>  to care.
>  
Maybe we have to make them care? If we do it like it is now, we get good
english strings, but poor translated strings - and english strings in a
translated environment.

>  --
>  Ville-Pekka Vainio
>
>  --
>  Fedora-trans-list mailing list
>  Fedora-trans-list(a)redhat.com
>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-list
>

[Xavi Conde]

Hi,

>  Maybe we have to make them care? If we do it like it is now, we get good
>  english strings, but poor translated strings - and english strings in a
>  translated environment.
> > 
I've always felt that translations always come last for developers,
many Fedora projects don't even have a sane automatized i18n
environment integrated into the build that would ease having POT and
PO always up to date and they do it manually. I've used intltool for
this purpose on my own projects and it's not that hard to do. They
simply don't care.

I think developers that broke the string freeze without noticing the
list (or that don't even care) should be publicly blamed. To some
extent, I'd rather not submit translations to these projects anymore.
For instance, my imsettings translation was sent by mail and not
commited yet. It doesn't take more than 1 min to save a file...

My .02 €.

-- 
"There's no dark side of the moon, really. As a matter of fact, it's all
dark."

Un bloc de cinépatas: http://banda-aparte.blog-city.com/
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/xaviconde

[Domingo Becker]

2009/9/23 Xavi Conde <xavi.conde(a)gmail.com&gt;:
>  Hi,
>
>  2009/9/23 Kris Thomsen <lakristho(a)gmail.com&gt;:
> > Hi Noriko,
> >
> > Yeah, I experienced this too. It's quite annoying, cause in danish
> > FOSS-translation team we review our translations, so it can take a little
> > while to get the translations ready - so maybe we can't get the danish
> > translation ready for Fedora 12 release :)
> >
>
>  may I suggest that in fact there's no such thing as a "Fedora string
>  freeze"? It would make our live easier not to expect its existence.
>  Knowing the date when packages will be rebuilt should be enough for
>  our planning.
>  
+1
The choice we have to make is between good software or good translations.
I think it's better good software.
Anyway, completed translations for a package may come in a package
update after the release.

2009/9/23 Xavi Conde <xavi.conde(a)gmail.com&gt;:
>  For instance, my imsettings translation was sent by mail and not
>  commited yet. It doesn't take more than 1 min to save a file...
>  
This issue is really disappointing.
It may be solved with allowing Tx submit translations for their projects.
But when you ask for that support, developers come with so many
different ununderstandable answers. :-o

My two cents.

Regards

Domingo Becker

[Kris Thomsen]

Comments below :)

2009/9/23 Domingo Becker <domingobecker(a)gmail.com&gt;

>  2009/9/23 Xavi Conde <xavi.conde(a)gmail.com&gt;:
>  > Hi,
>  >
>  > 2009/9/23 Kris Thomsen <lakristho(a)gmail.com&gt;:
>  >> Hi Noriko,
>  >>
>  >> Yeah, I experienced this too. It's quite annoying, cause in danish
>  >> FOSS-translation team we review our translations, so it can take a
>  little
>  >> while to get the translations ready - so maybe we can't get the danish
>  >> translation ready for Fedora 12 release :)
>  >>
>  >
>  > may I suggest that in fact there's no such thing as a "Fedora string
>  > freeze"? It would make our live easier not to expect its existence.
>  > Knowing the date when packages will be rebuilt should be enough for
>  > our planning.
>  >
>
>  +1
>  The choice we have to make is between good software or good translations.
>  I think it's better good software.
>  Anyway, completed translations for a package may come in a package
>  update after the release.
>  
How many times is this done? And when?

>  2009/9/23 Xavi Conde <xavi.conde(a)gmail.com&gt;:
>  > For instance, my imsettings translation was sent by mail and not
>  > commited yet. It doesn't take more than 1 min to save a file...
>  >
>
>  This issue is really disappointing.
>  It may be solved with allowing Tx submit translations for their projects.
>  But when you ask for that support, developers come with so many
>  different ununderstandable answers. :-o
>
>  My two cents.
>
>  Regards
>
>  Domingo Becker
>
>  --
>  Fedora-trans-list mailing list
>  Fedora-trans-list(a)redhat.com
>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-list
>

[Domingo Becker]

2009/9/23 Kris Thomsen <lakristho(a)gmail.com&gt;:
> > Anyway, completed translations for a package may come in a
> package
> > update after the release.
>
>  How many times is this done? And when? 
Many times. It depends on the package maintainer.
They have to rebuild the package and push it in the update system.
I saw that it normally takes 2 weeks for the new translations to be
part of a package update after the release.
For some packages, specially the .noarch, it takes more and depends on
the package maintainer.
You may always ask to rebuild the package to go faster.

k.r

Domingo Becker

[Dimitris Glezos]

On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 5:55 AM, Noriko Mizumoto <noriko(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  Hi
>
>  I've been reported that some packages have still been updated everyday
>  basis.
>  Unfortunately there is no effective mean to track and handle those
>  automatically atm. But I do understand the pain. 
Do we have a list of these projects? If yes, we should send some emails.

If there's a Python coder itching enough to go on and add such
functionality to Tx, I'd be willing to mentor.

-d



-- 
Dimitris Glezos

Transifex: The Multilingual Publishing Revolution
http://www.transifex.net/ -- http://www.indifex.com/

[Rui Gouveia]

Em 23-09-2009 12:26, Dimitris Glezos escreveu:
>  Do we have a list of these projects? If yes, we should send some
> emails.
>      
https://translate.fedoraproject.org/projects/system-config-date/master-ti...

+22 fuzzy
+160 untranslated

What's going on?

-- 
Rui Gouveia

[Sérgio Mesquita]

We are The Borg.
Resistance is futile.
________________________________________
De: fedora-trans-list-bounces(a)redhat.com [fedora-trans-list-bounces(a)redhat.com] Em Nome De
Rui Gouveia [rui.gouveia(a)globaltek.pt]
Enviado: quarta-feira, 23 de Setembro de 2009 17:33
Para: Fedora Translation Project List
Cc: noriko(a)redhat.com
Assunto: Re: string freeze break?!

Em 23-09-2009 12:26, Dimitris Glezos escreveu:
>  Do we have a list of these projects? If yes, we should send some
> emails.
>  
https://translate.fedoraproject.org/projects/system-config-date/master-ti...

+22 fuzzy
+160 untranslated

What's going on?

--
Rui Gouveia


--
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Fedora-trans-list(a)redhat.com
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[Xavi Conde]

2009/9/23 Sérgio Manuel Moreira Mesquita <sergiomesquita(a)cm-porto.pt&gt;:
>  We are The Borg.
>  Resistance is futile. 
Hahahaha...

Regarding the updated packages, it must be taken into account that a)
translations must reside in separate branches and b) update packages
are issued commonly for fixing bugs or security issues, not for
improving translations.

Regards!
-- 
"There's no dark side of the moon, really. As a matter of fact, it's all
dark."

Un bloc de cinépatas: http://banda-aparte.blog-city.com/
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/xaviconde

[Domingo Becker]

2009/9/23 Xavi Conde <xavi.conde(a)gmail.com&gt;:
>  Regarding the updated packages, it must be taken into account that a)
>  translations must reside in separate branches and b) update packages
>  are issued commonly for fixing bugs or security issues, not for
>  improving translations.
>  
a. Normally they don't reside in separated branches. I only saw this
for OpenOffice.
b. This is true. They rebuild packages when they need to fix a bug.
But many times I requested a rebuild only to see the package fully
translated and they agreed to do it.

For the packages that depend on the kernel, you will see a rebuild at
least once a month. It is rebuilt often. No need to ask for these
packages, they will have to rebuild it anyway.
For .noarch packages it's different. An email may work.

regards

Domingo Becker