How to translate plural forms in zanata online editor?

[Alick Zhao]

Howdy,

I have not looked close at fedora.zanata.org lately, and it seems now
zanata shows strings with singular/plural forms in *one* textbox in
its online editor, as in screenshot [1]. I am wondering what is the
right way to translate them? I tried to search through the zanata
docs, but cannot find it. Hope someone can point out for me. Thanks!

[1] http://susepaste.org/83191113

Regards,
Alick

[Jérôme Fenal]

2015-10-24 18:32 GMT+02:00 Alick Zhao :
> Howdy,
>
> I have not looked close at fedora.zanata.org lately, and it seems now
> zanata shows strings with singular/plural forms in *one* textbox in
> its online editor, as in screenshot [1]. I am wondering what is the
> right way to translate them? I tried to search through the zanata
> docs, but cannot find it. Hope someone can point out for me. Thanks!
>
> [1] http://susepaste.org/83191113

Hi Alick,

You'd need to actually check in the source if the mix of singular and
plural form are handled.

Zanata does present the two alternatives when the code for the
translated messages does handle it.

Regards,

J.

[Alick Zhao]

On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 1:02 PM, Jérôme Fenal  wrote:
> 2015-10-24 18:32 GMT+02:00 Alick Zhao :
> > Howdy,
> >
> > I have not looked close at fedora.zanata.org lately, and it seems now
> > zanata shows strings with singular/plural forms in *one* textbox in
> > its online editor, as in screenshot [1]. I am wondering what is the
> > right way to translate them? I tried to search through the zanata
> > docs, but cannot find it. Hope someone can point out for me. Thanks!
> >
> > [1] http://susepaste.org/83191113
>
> Hi Alick,
>
> You'd need to actually check in the source if the mix of singular and
> plural form are handled.
>
> Zanata does present the two alternatives when the code for the
> translated messages does handle it.

Yes, I do see the two alternatives with two radio buttons. My question
is: How to translate both two strings in one entry box? Should I first
translate the first one, then press the second radio button, and then
translate the second one? The warning messages appear when I tried to
do these, so I am not quite sure what is the right thing to do...

[Ding Yi Chen]

----- Original Message -----
> On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 1:02 PM, Jérôme Fenal  wrote:
> > 2015-10-24 18:32 GMT+02:00 Alick Zhao :
> > > Howdy,
> > >
> > > I have not looked close at fedora.zanata.org lately, and it seems now
> > > zanata shows strings with singular/plural forms in *one* textbox in
> > > its online editor, as in screenshot [1]. I am wondering what is the
> > > right way to translate them? I tried to search through the zanata
> > > docs, but cannot find it. Hope someone can point out for me. Thanks!
> > >
> > > [1] http://susepaste.org/83191113
> >
> > Hi Alick,
> >
> > You'd need to actually check in the source if the mix of singular and
> > plural form are handled.
> >
> > Zanata does present the two alternatives when the code for the
> > translated messages does handle it.
>
> Yes, I do see the two alternatives with two radio buttons. My question
> is: How to translate both two strings in one entry box? Should I first
> translate the first one, then press the second radio button, and then
> translate the second one? The warning messages appear when I tried to
> do these, so I am not quite sure what is the right thing to do...

If you translates string from the language with plural (e.g. English)
to the language without plural (e.g. Chinese).

Normally you only need to translate the singular (the first) string.
The radio buttons there are merely for copy from source string.

[Alick Zhao]

On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 11:05 PM, Ding Yi Chen  wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> > On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 1:02 PM, Jérôme Fenal  wrote:
> > > 2015-10-24 18:32 GMT+02:00 Alick Zhao :
> > > > Howdy,
> > > >
> > > > I have not looked close at fedora.zanata.org lately, and it seems now
> > > > zanata shows strings with singular/plural forms in *one* textbox in
> > > > its online editor, as in screenshot [1]. I am wondering what is the
> > > > right way to translate them? I tried to search through the zanata
> > > > docs, but cannot find it. Hope someone can point out for me. Thanks!
> > > >
> > > > [1] http://susepaste.org/83191113
> > >
> > > Hi Alick,
> > >
> > > You'd need to actually check in the source if the mix of singular and
> > > plural form are handled.
> > >
> > > Zanata does present the two alternatives when the code for the
> > > translated messages does handle it.
> >
> > Yes, I do see the two alternatives with two radio buttons. My question
> > is: How to translate both two strings in one entry box? Should I first
> > translate the first one, then press the second radio button, and then
> > translate the second one? The warning messages appear when I tried to
> > do these, so I am not quite sure what is the right thing to do...
>
> If you translates string from the language with plural (e.g. English)
> to the language without plural (e.g. Chinese).
>
> Normally you only need to translate the singular (the first) string.
> The radio buttons there are merely for copy from source string.

Well, I guess Chinese do have singular/plural differences in a sense.
For example,

Last week --> 上周

{0:d} weeks ago --> （数字）周前

[Ding Yi Chen]

----- Original Message -----
> On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 11:05 PM, Ding Yi Chen  wrote:
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > > On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 1:02 PM, Jérôme Fenal  wrote:
> > > > 2015-10-24 18:32 GMT+02:00 Alick Zhao :
> > > > > Howdy,
> > > > >
> > > > > I have not looked close at fedora.zanata.org lately, and it seems now
> > > > > zanata shows strings with singular/plural forms in *one* textbox in
> > > > > its online editor, as in screenshot [1]. I am wondering what is the
> > > > > right way to translate them? I tried to search through the zanata
> > > > > docs, but cannot find it. Hope someone can point out for me. Thanks!
> > > > >
> > > > > [1] http://susepaste.org/83191113
> > > >
> > > > Hi Alick,
> > > >
> > > > You'd need to actually check in the source if the mix of singular and
> > > > plural form are handled.
> > > >
> > > > Zanata does present the two alternatives when the code for the
> > > > translated messages does handle it.
> > >
> > > Yes, I do see the two alternatives with two radio buttons. My question
> > > is: How to translate both two strings in one entry box? Should I first
> > > translate the first one, then press the second radio button, and then
> > > translate the second one? The warning messages appear when I tried to
> > > do these, so I am not quite sure what is the right thing to do...
> >
> > If you translates string from the language with plural (e.g. English)
> > to the language without plural (e.g. Chinese).
> >
> > Normally you only need to translate the singular (the first) string.
> > The radio buttons there are merely for copy from source string.
>
> Well, I guess Chinese do have singular/plural differences in a sense.
> For example,
>
> Last week --> 上周
>
> {0:d} weeks ago --> （数字）周前

Please warn the gnome-abrt upstream the way they handle plural will break the languages where
the first form is not one. [1]

For example, French's "singular" form includes 0 and 1 (while in English, 0 is plural).
So if function outputs 0, the French equivalent of "Last Week" will be used, which may be wrong.

And as for Chinese, the thing you translated become
msgstr[0] "上周\n"
"\n"
"{0:d} 周前"

a three-lined string no matter what function returned.

If the function returns 1, user will see:
上周

1 周前

If the function return 3, user will see:
上周

3 周前

If the upstream does not fix it in time, I suggest you go with

{0:d} weeks ago --> {0:d} 周前

Reference:
1. http://www.unicode.org/cldr/charts/latest/supplemental/language_plural_rules...
> --
> Regards,
> Alick
> --
> trans mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans

[Alick Zhao]

Hi,

I reported it to gnome-abrt upstream with a comment on a relevant issue:

https://github.com/abrt/gnome-abrt/issues/112

However, it seems to me what they have done with `ngettext` is
correct. Here in this case, we do not need to worry the number is 0
since it will not happen:

https://github.com/abrt/gnome-abrt/pull/118/files

The real problem I face is I cannot find how to translate these
strings with singular/plural forms on zanata's online editor. Is it
only possible with offline po editor?

On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 12:52 AM, Ding Yi Chen  wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> > On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 11:05 PM, Ding Yi Chen  wrote:
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 1:02 PM, Jérôme Fenal  wrote:
> > > > > 2015-10-24 18:32 GMT+02:00 Alick Zhao :
> > > > > > Howdy,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have not looked close at fedora.zanata.org lately, and it seems now
> > > > > > zanata shows strings with singular/plural forms in *one* textbox in
> > > > > > its online editor, as in screenshot [1]. I am wondering what is the
> > > > > > right way to translate them? I tried to search through the zanata
> > > > > > docs, but cannot find it. Hope someone can point out for me. Thanks!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [1] http://susepaste.org/83191113
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Alick,
> > > > >
> > > > > You'd need to actually check in the source if the mix of singular and
> > > > > plural form are handled.
> > > > >
> > > > > Zanata does present the two alternatives when the code for the
> > > > > translated messages does handle it.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, I do see the two alternatives with two radio buttons. My question
> > > > is: How to translate both two strings in one entry box? Should I first
> > > > translate the first one, then press the second radio button, and then
> > > > translate the second one? The warning messages appear when I tried to
> > > > do these, so I am not quite sure what is the right thing to do...
> > >
> > > If you translates string from the language with plural (e.g. English)
> > > to the language without plural (e.g. Chinese).
> > >
> > > Normally you only need to translate the singular (the first) string.
> > > The radio buttons there are merely for copy from source string.
> >
> > Well, I guess Chinese do have singular/plural differences in a sense.
> > For example,
> >
> > Last week --> 上周
> >
> > {0:d} weeks ago --> （数字）周前
>
> Please warn the gnome-abrt upstream the way they handle plural will break the languages where
> the first form is not one. [1]
>
> For example, French's "singular" form includes 0 and 1 (while in English, 0 is plural).
> So if function outputs 0, the French equivalent of "Last Week" will be used, which may be wrong.
>
> And as for Chinese, the thing you translated become
> msgstr[0] "上周\n"
> "\n"
> "{0:d} 周前"
>
> a three-lined string no matter what function returned.
>
> If the function returns 1, user will see:
> 上周
>
> 1 周前
>
> If the function return 3, user will see:
> 上周
>
> 3 周前
>
> If the upstream does not fix it in time, I suggest you go with
>
> {0:d} weeks ago --> {0:d} 周前
>
> Reference:
> http://www.unicode.org/cldr/charts/latest/supplemental/language_plural_rules...
> > --
> > Regards,
> > Alick
> > --
> > trans mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans
>
> --
> Ding-Yi Chen
> Software Engineer
> Globalization Group
> DID: [phone]
> Email: [e-mail]
>
> Red Hat, Asia-Pacific Pty Ltd
> Level 1, 193 North Quay
> Brisbane 4000
> Office: [phone]
> Fax: [phone]
> Website: www.redhat.com
>
> Red Hat, Inc.
> Facebook: Red Hat APAC | Red Hat Japan | Red Hat Korea | JBoss APAC
> Twitter: Red Hat APAC | Red Hat ANZ
> LinkedIn: Red Hat APAC | JBoss APAC
> --
> trans mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans

[Alex Eng]

Just for your information, the plural forms used in Zanata:

http://docs.translatehouse.org/projects/localization-guide/en/latest/l10n/pl...

---------------------------------------------

Alex Eng
Globalisation Tools Engineering
DID: [phone] callto:+61+3514+8262
Mobile: [phone] callto:+614+2335+3457

Red Hat, Asia-Pacific Pty Ltd
Level 1, 193 North Quay
Brisbane 4000
Office: [phone] callto:+61+7+3514+8100
Fax: [phone] callto:+61+7+3514+8199
Website: www.redhat.com

On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 2:56 AM, Alick Zhao  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I reported it to gnome-abrt upstream with a comment on a relevant issue:
>
> https://github.com/abrt/gnome-abrt/issues/112
>
> However, it seems to me what they have done with `ngettext` is
> correct. Here in this case, we do not need to worry the number is 0
> since it will not happen:
>
> https://github.com/abrt/gnome-abrt/pull/118/files
>
> The real problem I face is I cannot find how to translate these
> strings with singular/plural forms on zanata's online editor. Is it
> only possible with offline po editor?
>
> On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 12:52 AM, Ding Yi Chen  wrote:
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 11:05 PM, Ding Yi Chen
>
> wrote:
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 1:02 PM, Jérôme Fenal
>
> wrote:
> > > > > > 2015-10-24 18:32 GMT+02:00 Alick Zhao :
> > > > > > > Howdy,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have not looked close at fedora.zanata.org lately, and it
>
> seems now
> > > > > > > zanata shows strings with singular/plural forms in *one* textbox
>
> in
> > > > > > > its online editor, as in screenshot [1]. I am wondering what is
>
> the
> > > > > > > right way to translate them? I tried to search through the zanata
> > > > > > > docs, but cannot find it. Hope someone can point out for me.
>
> Thanks!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [1] http://susepaste.org/83191113
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Alick,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You'd need to actually check in the source if the mix of singular
>
> and
> > > > > > plural form are handled.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Zanata does present the two alternatives when the code for the
> > > > > > translated messages does handle it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, I do see the two alternatives with two radio buttons. My
>
> question
> > > > > is: How to translate both two strings in one entry box? Should I
>
> first
> > > > > translate the first one, then press the second radio button, and then
> > > > > translate the second one? The warning messages appear when I tried to
> > > > > do these, so I am not quite sure what is the right thing to do...
> > > >
> > > > If you translates string from the language with plural (e.g. English)
> > > > to the language without plural (e.g. Chinese).
> > > >
> > > > Normally you only need to translate the singular (the first) string.
> > > > The radio buttons there are merely for copy from source string.
> > >
> > > Well, I guess Chinese do have singular/plural differences in a sense.
> > > For example,
> > >
> > > Last week --> 上周
> > >
> > > {0:d} weeks ago --> （数字）周前
> >
> > Please warn the gnome-abrt upstream the way they handle plural will
>
> break the languages where
> > the first form is not one. [1]
> >
> > For example, French's "singular" form includes 0 and 1 (while in
>
> English, 0 is plural).
> > So if function outputs 0, the French equivalent of "Last Week" will be
>
> used, which may be wrong.
> > And as for Chinese, the thing you translated become
> > msgstr[0] "上周\n"
> > "\n"
> > "{0:d} 周前"
> >
> > a three-lined string no matter what function returned.
> >
> > If the function returns 1, user will see:
> > 上周
> >
> > 1 周前
> >
> > If the function return 3, user will see:
> > 上周
> >
> > 3 周前
> >
> > If the upstream does not fix it in time, I suggest you go with
> >
> > {0:d} weeks ago --> {0:d} 周前
> >
> > Reference:
>
> http://www.unicode.org/cldr/charts/latest/supplemental/language_plural_rules...
> > > --
> > > Regards,
> > > Alick
> > > --
> > > trans mailing list
> > > [e-mail]
> > > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans
> >
> > --
> > Ding-Yi Chen
> > Software Engineer
> > Globalization Group
> > DID: [phone]
> > Email: [e-mail]
> >
> > Red Hat, Asia-Pacific Pty Ltd
> > Level 1, 193 North Quay
> > Brisbane 4000
> > Office: [phone]
> > Fax: [phone]
> > Website: www.redhat.com
> >
> > Red Hat, Inc.
> > Facebook: Red Hat APAC | Red Hat Japan | Red Hat Korea | JBoss APAC
> > Twitter: Red Hat APAC | Red Hat ANZ
> > LinkedIn: Red Hat APAC | JBoss APAC
> > --
> > trans mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans
>
> --
> Regards,
> Alick
> --
> trans mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans

[Luke Brooker]

Hi Alick,

I’ve looked into the problem as closely as I can and have come to the
following conclusions:

- abrt-gnome is setup correctly for Chinese
- Zanata should hide the singular source in language with no plurals (I’ll
create an issue for this)
- Therefore, for Chinese, you should only translate the plural source not
the singular source
- The Zanata editor should display better separation for plurals in the
current editor (I’ll create an issue for this)

There is still some cases where that particular plural may cause issues
(e.g. Russian, as the plural for 1 would be the same as 21, so if something
is 21 weeks ago it may actually display the equivalent of “Last week” in
Russian). They may be handling this in their codebase, but they may want to
check.

I hope this has helped. Thanks so much for your feedback, I’ll try and get
these changes into Zanata soon to make plural translation more obvious.

On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 3:56 AM, Alick Zhao  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I reported it to gnome-abrt upstream with a comment on a relevant issue:
>
> https://github.com/abrt/gnome-abrt/issues/112
>
> However, it seems to me what they have done with `ngettext` is
> correct. Here in this case, we do not need to worry the number is 0
> since it will not happen:
>
> https://github.com/abrt/gnome-abrt/pull/118/files
>
> The real problem I face is I cannot find how to translate these
> strings with singular/plural forms on zanata's online editor. Is it
> only possible with offline po editor?
>
> On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 12:52 AM, Ding Yi Chen  wrote:
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 11:05 PM, Ding Yi Chen
>
> wrote:
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 1:02 PM, Jérôme Fenal
>
> wrote:
> > > > > > 2015-10-24 18:32 GMT+02:00 Alick Zhao :
> > > > > > > Howdy,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have not looked close at fedora.zanata.org lately, and it
>
> seems now
> > > > > > > zanata shows strings with singular/plural forms in *one* textbox
>
> in
> > > > > > > its online editor, as in screenshot [1]. I am wondering what is
>
> the
> > > > > > > right way to translate them? I tried to search through the zanata
> > > > > > > docs, but cannot find it. Hope someone can point out for me.
>
> Thanks!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [1] http://susepaste.org/83191113
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Alick,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You'd need to actually check in the source if the mix of singular
>
> and
> > > > > > plural form are handled.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Zanata does present the two alternatives when the code for the
> > > > > > translated messages does handle it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, I do see the two alternatives with two radio buttons. My
>
> question
> > > > > is: How to translate both two strings in one entry box? Should I
>
> first
> > > > > translate the first one, then press the second radio button, and then
> > > > > translate the second one? The warning messages appear when I tried to
> > > > > do these, so I am not quite sure what is the right thing to do...
> > > >
> > > > If you translates string from the language with plural (e.g. English)
> > > > to the language without plural (e.g. Chinese).
> > > >
> > > > Normally you only need to translate the singular (the first) string.
> > > > The radio buttons there are merely for copy from source string.
> > >
> > > Well, I guess Chinese do have singular/plural differences in a sense.
> > > For example,
> > >
> > > Last week --> 上周
> > >
> > > {0:d} weeks ago --> （数字）周前
> >
> > Please warn the gnome-abrt upstream the way they handle plural will
>
> break the languages where
> > the first form is not one. [1]
> >
> > For example, French's "singular" form includes 0 and 1 (while in
>
> English, 0 is plural).
> > So if function outputs 0, the French equivalent of "Last Week" will be
>
> used, which may be wrong.
> > And as for Chinese, the thing you translated become
> > msgstr[0] "上周\n"
> > "\n"
> > "{0:d} 周前"
> >
> > a three-lined string no matter what function returned.
> >
> > If the function returns 1, user will see:
> > 上周
> >
> > 1 周前
> >
> > If the function return 3, user will see:
> > 上周
> >
> > 3 周前
> >
> > If the upstream does not fix it in time, I suggest you go with
> >
> > {0:d} weeks ago --> {0:d} 周前
> >
> > Reference:
>
> http://www.unicode.org/cldr/charts/latest/supplemental/language_plural_rules...
> > > --
> > > Regards,
> > > Alick
> > > --
> > > trans mailing list
> > > [e-mail]
> > > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans
> >
> > --
> > Ding-Yi Chen
> > Software Engineer
> > Globalization Group
> > DID: [phone]
> > Email: [e-mail]
> >
> > Red Hat, Asia-Pacific Pty Ltd
> > Level 1, 193 North Quay
> > Brisbane 4000
> > Office: [phone]
> > Fax: [phone]
> > Website: www.redhat.com
> >
> > Red Hat, Inc.
> > Facebook: Red Hat APAC | Red Hat Japan | Red Hat Korea | JBoss APAC
> > Twitter: Red Hat APAC | Red Hat ANZ
> > LinkedIn: Red Hat APAC | JBoss APAC
> > --
> > trans mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans
>
> --
> Regards,
> Alick
> --
> trans mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans

[Ding Yi Chen]

Hi,

Thanks for reporting the issue.

As I said in issue #112, for CJK, we can avoid the issue by just translating the plural.
However, if Russian translators just translate as-is, Russian user may see an entry 
that's 11 months ago shown as "last month"

Lokalize's plural handling for non-plural language is actually quite nice.
They hide the singular and only show the plural.

To make the plural actually working in non-plural form like Chinese,
you need to change PO header field "Plural Forms:" to support plural form.
Otherwise the msgstr_[1] or more will be ignored.

I don't recommend change plural forms setting on po file for multi-translator
project, because other translators might not aware your change and lead
to confusion and conflict.

----- Original Message -----
> Hi,
>
> I reported it to gnome-abrt upstream with a comment on a relevant issue:
>
> https://github.com/abrt/gnome-abrt/issues/112
>
> However, it seems to me what they have done with `ngettext` is
> correct. Here in this case, we do not need to worry the number is 0
> since it will not happen:
>
> https://github.com/abrt/gnome-abrt/pull/118/files
>
> The real problem I face is I cannot find how to translate these
> strings with singular/plural forms on zanata's online editor. Is it
> only possible with offline po editor?

Regards,

[Alex Eng]

Alick,

Generally, on the right column in the editor (text box for translation),
each row will be corresponding to the source string on the left.

Can you please provide me with the url to the plural string you are looking
at?

I will be able to provide you some screen shots and guide.

---------------------------------------------

Alex Eng
Globalisation Tools Engineering
DID: [phone] callto:+61+3514+8262
Mobile: [phone] callto:+614+2335+3457

Red Hat, Asia-Pacific Pty Ltd
Level 1, 193 North Quay
Brisbane 4000
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On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 1:32 AM, Alick Zhao  wrote:
> Howdy,
>
> I have not looked close at fedora.zanata.org lately, and it seems now
> zanata shows strings with singular/plural forms in *one* textbox in
> its online editor, as in screenshot [1]. I am wondering what is the
> right way to translate them? I tried to search through the zanata
> docs, but cannot find it. Hope someone can point out for me. Thanks!
>
> [1] http://susepaste.org/83191113
>
> Regards,
> Alick
> --
> trans mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans

[Alick Zhao]

On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 8:31 PM, Alex Eng  wrote:
> Alick,
>
> Generally, on the right column in the editor (text box for translation),
> each row will be corresponding to the source string on the left.
>
> Can you please provide me with the url to the plural string you are looking
> at?
>
> I will be able to provide you some screen shots and guide.

Thanks! Here is a sample string:

https://fedora.zanata.org/webtrans/translate?project=gnome-abrt&iteratio...

Regards,
Alick