users October 2003

users@lists.fedoraproject.org

284 participants
265 discussions

Bugzilla System Back
by Dave Lawrence 01 Oct '03

01 Oct '03

Due to technical failures, bugzilla.redhat.com was down for a period of time on Wednesday morning EST, Oct 1st. It has since been resolved and should be accessible again. Unfortunately there was some slight data loss involved. If you filed a bug report or made any bug changes from 4:00 am EST Sept 30th to 9:00 am Oct 1st, please refile them if possible. Sorry for the inconvenience. Thanks David Lawrence Red Hat, Inc.

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fedora.redhat.com site and NS4: no-go!
by Jos Vos 01 Oct '03

01 Oct '03

Hi, I just detected that federa.redhat.com does some kind of endless looping when accessed with Netscape 4.8. I think this wasn't the case before, did something change? It seems to loop with js/offsite.js or so... brr... Cheers, -- -- Jos Vos <jos(a)xos.nl> -- X/OS Experts in Open Systems BV | Phone: +31 20 6938364 -- Amsterdam, The Netherlands | Fax: +31 20 6948204

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Re: Fedora Project: Announcing New Direction
by Havoc Pennington 01 Oct '03

01 Oct '03

Hi, Setting reply-to to fedora-list, as this really isn't a development discussion. Please follow up to that list only. On Wed, 2003-10-01 at 11:49, Thomas Dodd wrote: > > My understanding is that you have the rights under the open source > > licenses to use, modify, and distribute (we cannot and do not want to > > remove these), but to get maintenance and support *from us* you have to > > subscribe per-system. > > Exactly. and if you don't license per-system you loose maintance and > support from Red Hat. As I understand it, that's because the cost of the Red Hat service product is N dollars per system. If you don't pay the cost of the services, you don't receive the services. As part of the service product, Red Hat distributes the software to you under the terms of its open source licenses. At that point you have the software forever. However, ongoing Red Hat services cost N dollars per system deployed with RHEL. The cost could have been N dollars absolute, or N dollars per employee, or whatever. Whatever the pricing, if you don't pay for the product then you can't use the product. The product in this case is services from Red Hat, not the software binaries. AFAIK there are no restrictions imposed other than that, it's just a matter of: this product costs <whatever>. What you're funding when you pay the cost is not just support incidents, but maintaining updates for the 5-year lifetime, coordinating with OEMs and ISVs to be sure stuff works, roadmap and future progress/development, bandwidth to provide updates, marketing of Linux so it succeeds, QA, performance testing, all the things that Red Hat builds. You're paying to ensure an entire infrastructure that makes RHEL a long-term viable OS people can rely on. All of the above is only my personal take on it, the official statement is the legal agreement itself. > > But of course I am not a lawyer or official spokesperson, you really > > have to read the agreement and you may want to talk to the Red Hat > > salespeople as they answer questions about this kind of thing all day. > > They won't answer that question. I've emailed sales and got no response. > I think they are happy to not give a definitive answer, so the worry > results in noone exercising there rights under the GPL (and others) and > keeps RHEL from being redistributed due to FUD. I wish you had gotten a response. While it certainly isn't your responsibility to track down our salespeople, calling on the phone might be more effective. Havoc

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DVD burner recommendations?
by Jos Vos 01 Oct '03

01 Oct '03

Hi, Anyone out there that can recommend a DVD burner that works fine on Linux (RHEL, RHL 9 and Fedora)? Thanks, -- -- Jos Vos <jos(a)xos.nl> -- X/OS Experts in Open Systems BV | Phone: +31 20 6938364 -- Amsterdam, The Netherlands | Fax: +31 20 6948204

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Re: Fedora and the System Administrator
by Jef Spaleta 01 Oct '03

01 Oct '03

David Chait wrote: > The difference of course is, Debian offers a stable release life of over 2 > years prior. That is hardly as aggravating as making a major migration > potentially twice a year. I think you will find very few orgs willing to > deploy Fedora under those conditions, and even fewer able to justify paying > for RHEL being that it is quite expensive compared to other options. Does Debian have stated planned lifetimes before a release ever hits testing? Or is Debian's appearance of stability, more a result of their development model just taking as long as it takes. Can you plan to update your debian systems 1 year out or 2 years out from today? Right now do you know when the next debian stable will be available? Debian IS different, but in fundamentally different ways than you seem to understand. Debian has a very different idea about time based releases. Debian builds in some minimal timing buffers into how testing is done....but they also have some particular ideas about there being a maximum number of bugs allowed in the bug que before testing can be frozen into stable. It's probably a bit of a stretch to call it a plan or a schedule in the sense that you know when things are actually going to move out of testing. And if you think about it...the maximum number of bugs in the que is sort of contradictory to the idea of stability (the more development effort goes into testing...the faster the bugs get fixed...the shorter time it takes for a release to get out of testing..shorting lifetime for the current stable as a result) Right now..if you install debian stable...you don't have any idea about how long that current stable will be supported. You don't know when to expect the next stable...you don't know how long of a period the debian devs will promise to support an older stable during the overlap period right after a new stable comes out. Debian's release plan comes down to the classic motto: "When its ready". Is "when it's ready" something your organization is prepared to accept as a release schedule for new stable releases for production systems? Debian stable does have a long lifetime. And if you install debian stable the first day or first couple of months when its available, you can probably be pretty sure yer going to get a couple of years of life out of it....but if you install the current stable right now, how long of a life time do you have do you think? more importantly do you know? www.debian.org: * The next release of Debian is codenamed `sarge' -- no release date has been set I suggest everyone interested in extending the lifetime of Fedora Core...and willing to contribute to such an extention...to take a real hard long look at Fedora Legacy. Getting all those people who are interested in contributing to the Legacy effort to at least raise their hand so they can be counted..would probably go a long way in the discussion as to how much and for how long Legacy can tackle the EOL issue. Fedora Legacy is there for a reason, whether or not any specific person or organization is prepared to make Fedora Legacy a workable solution that caters to their needs..is a choice. -jef"I think everyone should be more appreciative that Fedora has a stated EOL policy and a stated release schedule...the fact that this project does have a plan and a schedule means you can actually make informed choices based on your needs...good choices and right choices though are hard and contradictory endeavors"spaleta

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