users January 2020

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109 participants
109 discussions

Problems connecting to VM via ssh
by George R Goffe 21 Jan '20

21 Jan '20

Hi, I just installed a Fedora Core 32 (x86_64) system in a VM running under VirtualBox and am trying to ssh into the VM. When I try to login I get a "client_loop: send disconnect: Broken pipe" message for my trouble. This is what I'm getting from the client side: ssh -v tstusr(a)10.28.0.4OpenSSH_8.1p1, OpenSSL 1.1.1d FIPS 10 Sep 2019 debug1: Reading configuration data /etc/ssh/ssh_config debug1: Reading configuration data /etc/ssh/ssh_config.d/05-redhat.conf debug1: Reading configuration data /etc/crypto-policies/back-ends/openssh.config debug1: configuration requests final Match pass debug1: re-parsing configuration debug1: Reading configuration data /etc/ssh/ssh_config debug1: Reading configuration data /etc/ssh/ssh_config.d/05-redhat.conf debug1: Reading configuration data /etc/crypto-policies/back-ends/openssh.config debug1: Connecting to 10.28.0.4 [10.28.0.4] port 22. debug1: Connection established. debug1: identity file /root/.ssh/id_rsa type 0 debug1: identity file /root/.ssh/id_rsa-cert type -1 debug1: identity file /root/.ssh/id_dsa type -1 debug1: identity file /root/.ssh/id_dsa-cert type -1 debug1: identity file /root/.ssh/id_ecdsa type -1 debug1: identity file /root/.ssh/id_ecdsa-cert type -1 debug1: identity file /root/.ssh/id_ed25519 type -1 debug1: identity file /root/.ssh/id_ed25519-cert type -1 debug1: identity file /root/.ssh/id_xmss type -1 debug1: identity file /root/.ssh/id_xmss-cert type -1 debug1: Local version string SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_8.1 debug1: Remote protocol version 2.0, remote software version OpenSSH_8.1 debug1: match: OpenSSH_8.1 pat OpenSSH* compat 0x04000000 debug1: Authenticating to 10.28.0.4:22 as 'tstusr'debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEXINIT sent debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEXINIT received debug1: kex: algorithm: curve25519-sha256 debug1: kex: host key algorithm: ecdsa-sha2-nistp256 debug1: kex: server->client cipher: aes256-gcm(a)openssh.com MAC: <implicit> compression: none debug1: kex: client->server cipher: aes256-gcm(a)openssh.com MAC: <implicit> compression: none debug1: kex: curve25519-sha256 need=32 dh_need=32 debug1: kex: curve25519-sha256 need=32 dh_need=32 debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_KEX_ECDH_REPLY debug1: Server host key: ecdsa-sha2-nistp256 SHA256:Zev/Nfqn4njKOb+9dcqBPNx0mB6lQ1yU1PKtczqAsA4 debug1: Host '10.28.0.4' is known and matches the ECDSA host key. debug1: Found key in /root/.ssh/known_hosts:1 debug1: rekey out after 4294967296 blocks debug1: SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS sent debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS debug1: SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS received debug1: rekey in after 4294967296 blocks debug1: Will attempt key: /root/.ssh/id_rsa RSA SHA256:cyK/ngBTJrk8VT2LY7SBAJnYeRrEG+QEldmMd76ANDg debug1: Will attempt key: /root/.ssh/id_dsa debug1: Will attempt key: /root/.ssh/id_ecdsa debug1: Will attempt key: /root/.ssh/id_ed25519 debug1: Will attempt key: /root/.ssh/id_xmss debug1: SSH2_MSG_EXT_INFO received debug1: kex_input_ext_info: server-sig-algs=<ssh-ed25519,ssh-rsa,rsa-sha2-256,rsa-sha2-512,ssh-dss,ecdsa-sha2-nistp256,ecdsa-sha2-nistp384,ecdsa-sha2-nistp521> debug1: SSH2_MSG_SERVICE_ACCEPT received debug1: Authentications that can continue: publickey,gssapi-keyex,gssapi-with-mic,password,keyboard-interactive debug1: Next authentication method: gssapi-with-mic debug1: Unspecified GSS failure. Minor code may provide more information No Kerberos credentials available (default cache: KCM:) debug1: Unspecified GSS failure. Minor code may provide more information No Kerberos credentials available (default cache: KCM:) debug1: Next authentication method: publickey debug1: Offering public key: /root/.ssh/id_rsa RSA SHA256:cyK/ngBTJrk8VT2LY7SBAJnYeRrEG+QEldmMd76ANDg debug1: Authentications that can continue: publickey,gssapi-keyex,gssapi-with-mic,password,keyboard-interactive debug1: Trying private key: /root/.ssh/id_dsa debug1: Trying private key: /root/.ssh/id_ecdsa debug1: Trying private key: /root/.ssh/id_ed25519 debug1: Trying private key: /root/.ssh/id_xmss debug1: Next authentication method: keyboard-interactive Password: debug1: Authentication succeeded (keyboard-interactive). Authenticated to 10.28.0.4 ([10.28.0.4]:22). debug1: channel 0: new [client-session] debug1: Requesting no-more-sessions(a)openssh.com debug1: Entering interactive session. debug1: pledge: exec Running the server with the '-d' switch creates a log that I can't get but the last two lines are: debug1: PAM establishing credentialsPAM: pam_setcred(): Failure setting user credentials I'm afraid I've done something dumb but can't seem to see it. Can someone help me with this problem please? Best regards, George...

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Best way to replicate the installation of an old computer onto a new one
by Paul Smith 21 Jan '20

21 Jan '20

Dear All, I have got a new computer (processor AMD with 8 cores), which has 1TB SSD disk and a 2TB HDD disk. My old computer has only a 2TB HDD disk running Fedora 31 (x86_64). What is the best way to replicate the installation of my old computer onto my new one? Thanks in advance, Paul

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Re: usb thermometer?
by J.Witvliet＠mindef.nl 20 Jan '20

20 Jan '20

This (Ubuntu)thread claims to have it working under CentOS. https://askubuntu.com/questions/991426/trying-to-use-a-temper-usb-thermomet… Excuses for auto-typo’s On 20 Jan 2020, at 07:09, ToddAndMargo via users <users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org<mailto:users@lists.fedoraproject.org>> wrote: Hi All, Is there a such thing as usb thermometer that Fedora can read? And be able to be place a ways away from the computer so the computer's heat will not throw it off? Many thanks, -T _______________________________________________ users mailing list -- users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org<mailto:users@lists.fedoraproject.org> To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org<mailto:users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org> Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Dit bericht kan informatie bevatten die niet voor u is bestemd. Indien u niet de geadresseerde bent of dit bericht abusievelijk aan u is toegezonden, wordt u verzocht dat aan de afzender te melden en het bericht te verwijderen. De Staat aanvaardt geen aansprakelijkheid voor schade, van welke aard ook, die verband houdt met risico's verbonden aan het elektronisch verzenden van berichten. This message may contain information that is not intended for you. If you are not the addressee or if this message was sent to you by mistake, you are requested to inform the sender and delete the message. The State accepts no liability for damage of any kind resulting from the risks inherent in the electronic transmission of messages.

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5-1/4 diskettes
by Max Pyziur 19 Jan '20

19 Jan '20

Greetings, Unlike 3.5 inch diskettes, where there are USB drives available, there is no such thing for 5 1/4 ones. I have some 5-1/4 diskettes which have data that I never bothered to transfer to newer types of media. So, I'm looking for recommendations in this regard: - buy a 5-1/4 interal drive on eBay and try to make it work in Linux? - find a service that will transfer the data at a cost? Thanks in advance, Max Pyziur pyz(a)brama.com

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Re: 5-1/4 diskettes
by Frank McCormick 19 Jan '20

19 Jan '20

>> Greetings, >> >> Unlike 3.5 inch diskettes, where there are USB drives available, there is >> no such thing for 5 1/4 ones. >> >> I have some 5-1/4 diskettes which have data that I never bothered to >> transfer to newer types of media. So, I'm looking for recommendations in >> this regard: >> - buy a 5-1/4 interal drive on eBay and try to make it work in Linux? >> - find a service that will transfer the data at a cost? >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> Max Pyziur >> pyz(a)brama.com There is a couple of suggestions here: https://superuser.com/questions/513887/how-do-i-connect-a-5-1-4-floppy-driv…

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is there a cgroup2 version of libcgroup-tools?
by Robert P. J. Day 18 Jan '20

18 Jan '20

i looked around but didn't see a cgroups v2 version of libcgroup-tools, does one exist? rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday LinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday ========================================================================

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Kernel 5.4 iwlwifi firmware
by Leander Hutton 17 Jan '20

17 Jan '20

I'm running Fedora 31 on my laptop with a Killer Wi-Fi 6 AX1650 network card. Under 5.3 kernel series my card worked fine but I've noticed that under the 5.4 series the firmware fails to load with the following kernel message: iwlwifi 0000:00:14.3: enabling device (0000 -> 0002) iwlwifi 0000:00:14.3: Direct firmware load for iwlwifi-Qu-b0-hr-b0-50.ucode failed with error -2 iwlwifi 0000:00:14.3: Direct firmware load for iwlwifi-Qu-b0-hr-b0-49.ucode failed with error -2 iwlwifi 0000:00:14.3: TLV_FW_FSEQ_VERSION: FSEQ Version: 43.2.23.17 iwlwifi 0000:00:14.3: Found debug destination: EXTERNAL_DRAM iwlwifi 0000:00:14.3: Found debug configuration: 0 iwlwifi 0000:00:14.3: loaded firmware version 48.4fa0041f.0 op_mode iwlmvm iwlwifi 0000:00:14.3: Detected Killer(R) Wi-Fi 6 AX1650i 160MHz Wireless Network Adapter (201NGW), REV=0x338 iwlwifi 0000:00:14.3: Applying debug destination EXTERNAL_DRAM iwlwifi 0000:00:14.3: Allocated 0x00400000 bytes for firmware monitor. iwlwifi 0000:00:14.3: Collecting data: trigger 15 fired. iwlwifi 0000:00:14.3: Start IWL Error Log Dump: iwlwifi 0000:00:14.3: Status: 0x00000000, count: 2127625685 iwlwifi 0000:00:14.3: Loaded firmware version: 48.4fa0041f.0 iwlwifi 0000:00:14.3: Applying debug destination EXTERNAL_DRAM iwlwifi 0000:00:14.3: Allocated 0x00400000 bytes for firmware monitor. iwlwifi 0000:00:14.3: Collecting data: trigger 15 fired. iwlwifi 0000:00:14.3: Start IWL Error Log Dump: It then produces a longish error dump probably better suited for a bugtracker than a mail list. I can provide it here if that's help though! Booting back into any of the 5.3 kernels does not produce this error and the card works fine, all three released 5.4 kernels for F31 have done this so far. dnf reports my system as up-to-date and I have the available iwlwifi firmware packages installed. It looks like they just aren't updated for the 5.4 kernel or something? I know I can head to kernel.org, grab the firmware tarball and extract it to /lib/firmware but I'd like to avoid that if possible. Anyone else with this card having issues? Thanks! -- --- Leander Hutton leander(a)one-button.org

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F30 Lenovo x140e - no wifi
by Robert Moskowitz 17 Jan '20

17 Jan '20

I have been using ethernet up to now. I went to enable the wifi, to see no wifi listed. It has been too long since I have had to do this troubleshooting. Can some point me to what I need to look at to find what the Fedora thinks is the wifi? thanks

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Kid filter?
by ToddAndMargo 17 Jan '20

17 Jan '20

Hi All, Is there any such thing a kid filter to keep incorrigibles off porn and dating sites for Fedora? Many thanks, -T

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Long pauses using Evolution
by Robert G (Doc) Savage 17 Jan '20

17 Jan '20

I'm having persistent problems with Evolution fetching and reading Pop mail from a local ISP. Every time I connect to a different folder, set a filter, or click on send/receive, there's a 24-26 second pause before the result is displayed. I see the same pauses with existing, already downloaded mail. Thee pauses affect the entire system. When I run "journalctl -fa" in a Terminal window I see the following: Jan 15 23:01:34 tiger.protogeek.org kernel: Lockdown: pmdakvm: debugfs access is restricted; see man kernel_lockdown.7Jan 15 23:02:08 tiger.protogeek.org xdg-desktop-por[8858]: Failed to get application states: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.portal.Error.Failed: Could not get window list: Cannot invoke method; proxy is for the well-known name org.gnome.Shell without an owner, and proxy was constructed with the G_DBUS_PROXY_FLAGS_DO_NOT_AUTO_START flagJan 15 23:02:32 tiger.protogeek.org pcp-pmie[2148]: High aggregate context switch rate 48447ctxsw/s(a)tiger.protogeek.orgJan 15 23:02:34 tiger.protogeek.org kernel: Lockdown: pmdakvm: debugfs access is restricted; see man kernel_lockdown.7Jan 15 23:03:08 tiger.protogeek.org xdg-desktop- por[8858]: Failed to get application states: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.portal.Error.Failed: Could not get window list: Cannot invoke method; proxy is for the well-known name org.gnome.Shell without an owner, and proxy was constructed with the G_DBUS_PROXY_FLAGS_DO_NOT_AUTO_START flagJan 15 23:03:34 tiger.protogeek.org kernel: Lockdown: pmdakvm: debugfs access is restricted; see man kernel_lockdown.7Jan 15 23:04:08 tiger.protogeek.org xdg-desktop-por[8858]: Failed to get application states: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.portal.Error.Failed: Could not get window list: Cannot invoke method; proxy is for the well-known name org.gnome.Shell without an owner, and proxy was constructed with the G_DBUS_PROXY_FLAGS_DO_NOT_AUTO_START flagJan 15 23:04:34 tiger.protogeek.org kernel: Lockdown: pmdakvm: debugfs access is restricted; see man kernel_lockdown.7 When I try to view man kernel_lockdown.7, I get "No manual entry for kernel_lockdown.7" This is a fully-updated F31 system. Evolution v3.334.2-1.fc31. Has anyone else encountered pauses like this with Evolution? --Doc Savage Fairview Heights, IL

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Fwd: tried to install F30 and F31 on 2 separate Partition on 1 external disk
by Joerg Lechner 16 Jan '20

16 Jan '20

Hi,tried to install F30 and F31 on 2 separate Partitions on 1 external disk, no success, got either only F30 and Windows boot (internal disk is Windows 10) or F31 and Windows boot. Did anyone install 2 Fedora versions on 1 disk in seperate partitions? Grub shows after installation either F30 and Windows, or F31 and Windows. Kind RegardsJoerg

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laptop hangs on 5.4.x after getting out of suspend mode
by Martín Marqués 16 Jan '20

16 Jan '20

Hi, Am I the only one who's laptop hangs badly after coming out of suspend mode? I type my password to unlock the screen but unlocking doesn't help (maybe pam isn't working by then) and at some point the screen just freezes. I was able once to move to a different tty and saw a lot of kernel errors coming in. This happened with 5.4.7 and 5.4.10. Now I went back to good old 5.3.16 which works great with my HP laptop. Anyone else had this problem? Cheers, -- Martín Marqués It’s not that I have something to hide, it’s that I have nothing I want you to see

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how do i turn off high contrast setting on fedora 31?
by Robert P. J. Day 16 Jan '20

16 Jan '20

somehow (and i don't know how), while messing with settings, i activated some sort of high contrast setting wherein, for example, the title bar on my terminal windows is black and white, and a number of the icons under "Activities" are also now black and white. i'm trying to figure out how to turn this off, and can't find the option for that. thoughts? rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday LinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday ========================================================================

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First ~500ms of audio gets dropped
by Sam Varshavchik 15 Jan '20

15 Jan '20

One of my laptops has a minor, but an annoying, glitch with audio playback. I've observed this behavior with both Firefox and other audio playback applications. When audio playback starts /for the first time/, maybe the first 400-500ms of audio gets dropped, and then the rest of the audio plays fine. What's interesting is that pausing the audio for a few seconds and resuming it does not result in dropped audio. But if the audio playback gets paused for a longer period of time, resuming it once again drops the initial 400-500 milliseconds of audio. This happens only on one of my laptops. All of them are based on the XFCE spin, and generally have the same set of packages. This must be hardware related. This is my hardware (lspci -v): 00:03.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation Xeon E3-1200 v3/4th Gen Core Processor HD Audio Controller (rev 06) Subsystem: CLEVO/KAPOK Computer Device 6504 Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 35 Memory at f7e14000 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16K] Capabilities: <access denied> Kernel driver in use: snd_hda_intel Kernel modules: snd_hda_intel I'd be curious to compare notes with anyone else that has the same audio hardware. The most annoying part of this is that this manages to perfectly drop the "new mail" notification from one of my Firefox extensions. By the time the audio hardware decides to do its job, the horse already left the barn.

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Distorted HDMI audio in 5.4.7-200.fc31.x86_64
by linux guy 14 Jan '20

14 Jan '20

I've had issues with distorted audio played via HDMI since Sept. 2019 on 3 different computers. You can make out speech played via HDMI, but it is really distorted. After a time it sounds normal, ie undistorted. It used to occur the every time when a computer was booted. Now it seems to occur after it comes out of sleep mode. Analog audio plays fine. These machines have a variety of sound adapters in them and all of them act the same. Is anyone else experiencing this ? LG

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VLC and Distortion
by ToddAndMargo 14 Jan '20

14 Jan '20

Hi All, Fedora 31, x64 vlc-3.0.9-22.fc31.x86_64 I just downloaded $ youtube-dl --audio-format best --audio-quality 0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8Tkyj_KS98 And in Firefox, I loaded the URL in one tab and the downloaded file in another. Side by side, there is no difference. Parole is no difference than Firefox either. But loading the file into VLC, distortion city, especially around 1:45. What the heck ???? -T -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Computers are like air conditioners. They malfunction when you open windows ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Adding options to grub
by Mauricio Tavares 13 Jan '20

13 Jan '20

So I want to add a few options to the kernel (say iommu support). I have been told before to avoid using grub2-mkconfig because it would apply the changes to all currently available (to boot from) boot kernels. Instead, I should edit just the latest kernel entry in the grub.cfg file, adding the option to the line starting with linux16. This way, if it went boink, all I had to do is reboot, pick another kernel from the grub menu and off I went. And, it seems that every future kernel upgrade would incorporate this change. Is that accurate or is there a cleaner way to do the same while still leaving me the option to go back to the grub menu?

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just saw 89.1% saved by dprms
by jim.cromie＠gmail.com 13 Jan '20

13 Jan '20

[DRPM 230/230] texlive-tex-gyre-svn48058-11.fc31_svn48058-13.fc31.noarch.drpm: done ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Total 404 kB/s | 27 MB 01:07 Delta RPMs reduced 263.7 MB of updates to 26.5 MB (89.1% saved) Until somebody beats that, I'll claim the record ! ;-) and no I didnt search 1st. the internet is so full of false claims ...

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Is This Windows?.....
by Eddie G. O'Connor Jr. 13 Jan '20

13 Jan '20

k....I'm just gonna ask this: Why is it now that when I get notifications for updates I'm being prompted to "restart & Install"?...... W T H!???? Is this WINDOWS!?.......I have enjoyed the fact that I could update my system and use my computer until I was ready to shutdown / restart at my leisure. Now?....there's a funky button up top of the Software Updates (after its found packages to update) that says "Restart & Install"?......is there ANY way possible to TURN THIS CRAP OFF!!?? Is there some config file I can alter that will make this GO AWAY!? (I know I'm acting like a lunatic, but I was in the IT field since the Windows NT 4.0 days...and after finding Linux?...I have enjoyed NOT having to restart after updates.) Please Fedora Admins.....Fedora Magical Unicorns......Fedora High Council Wizards....PLEASE find a way to make this just GO AWAY!?.... EGO II

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Swapped a dual boot drive into another computer and it will only boot Windows ?
by linux guy 13 Jan '20

13 Jan '20

I have 2 computers, nearly identical, similar age. AMI BIOS in both. I swapped the M.SATA drives from each. One drive has F31. One has dual boot Windows 10 + F31. The F31 alone hard drive boots and runs fine in the first computer. So does the dual boot drive. The dual boot hard drive will only boot Windows in the 2nd computer. I can't get it to boot Fedora at all. The BIOS settings appear to be identical. The first computer that boots both drives fine has BIOS version F4. I installed the lastest BIOS in the second computer that doesn't boot. It is version F2, but a much later version. I'm using legacy (compatibility, non efi ) mode. The BIOS gives me 2 options: P4: Samsung SSD 850 EVO mSATA Windows Boot Manager (P4: Samsung SSD 850 EVO mSATA) If I select the first option, the Linux boot partition the computer boots and displays: "Reboot and Selct proper Boot device or... " I've checked fstab on both drives. The UUIDs are correct and they are set up the same, except the dual boot drive has 2 extra entries for the Windows install. Why won't the dual boot drive boot Fedora on the 2nd computer ?

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H.264
by ToddAndMargo 13 Jan '20

13 Jan '20

Hi All, How or what do I install to get the H.264 plug in that Parole Music Player complains about missing? Many thanks, -T

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Loss of Administrative Privileges on Only Account
by Stephen Morris 12 Jan '20

12 Jan '20

Hi, By mistake I removed administration privileges from my account under kde, which is the only account that had it. Removing the privilege has removed my account from sudoers. Is the only course of action I have to get it back to reinstall F29 and then upgrage to F31? regards, Steve

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Re: Loss of Administrative Privileges on Only Account
by Stephen Morris 12 Jan '20

12 Jan '20

On 12/1/20 04:18, Doug H. wrote: > On Sat, 2020-01-11 at 23:54 +1100, Stephen Morris wrote: >> Hi, >> By mistake I removed administration privileges from my >> account >> under kde, which is the only account that had it. Removing the >> privilege >> has removed my account from sudoers. Is the only course of action I >> have >> to get it back to reinstall F29 and then upgrage to F31? > Nope, lots of simpler methods... > > 1. Of course, if you have the root password you can give your user > sudo. > > 2. Boot to a maintenance CD and set a root password. > I don't have the root account enabled and I don't have a maintenance CD for F31 as it was an upgrade from F30, which was an upgrade from F29. regards, Steve > > >> regards, >> Steve >> _______________________________________________ >> users mailing list -- users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org >> Fedora Code of Conduct: >> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ >> List Guidelines: >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines >> List Archives: >> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org

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Help: F30/31 laptops only ones not able to connect to Wifi Linkhub hotspot
by Ranjan Maitra 12 Jan '20

12 Jan '20

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Re: OT: recommendations for a low-volume, ,> cheap-to-use/maintain home printer for use with Fedora 31
by R. G. Newbury 12 Jan '20

12 Jan '20

On Sat, Jan 11, 2020 at 7:15 > PM Samuel Sieb <samuel(a)sieb.net> wrote: >> On 1/11/20 9:14 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: >>> On Sat, 2020-01-11 at 23:18 +1030, Tim via users wrote: >>>> On Fri, 2020-01-10 at 09:25 -0600, Ranjan Maitra wrote: >>>>> the printing is largely of documents, but the printer sits for a >>>>> while doing nothing. I guess laser is the way to go then? What are >>>>> goog suggestions then? Look around for a used HP laser printer. I am using an HP1320 which I bought in May, 2005 for about $550 including an extra cartridge and tax. HP cartridges are expensive! I have no idea how many cartridges I have gone through, probably over a dozen, and it is as good as the day I bought it. Drivers are included with cups or hplip. The bare HP1320 needs a ~$30 network print server if you want to network it, otherwise a parallel port! If you want print/fax/scan, then one of the all in ones or 'MFP'. I have an HP3055 which I purchased in 2006 (to replace the fax machine which had died). I mainly use it for scanning now. It has builtin network capability. Again, the drivers are included in your basic install of cups or hplip. A good one will probably cost you $50-$75. Off-brand cartridges cost about that. ATM there is an HP P2015d for sale used on kijiji.ca in the Toronto area for $80Cdn. Physically it looks exactly like the HP1320 and has duplex capability. So... $60US??? I happen to like HP printers, but Brother printers do the same thing and are just about as dependable and long-lived. I've had Brother printers too. The best scanner I have ever used is a Brother ADS-1000. Once did over 650 pages in one continuous pass! Geoff --

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