On Jan 22, 2022, at 06:35, Dorian ROSSE dorianbrice@hotmail.fr wrote:
Have you tried 'pip3 install python3dist ' ?
I never suggest Fedora users run ‘pip’ as root, except when in a virtualenv, dockerfile or some contained environment.
It is far too easy for pip to overwrite or override a packaged python library and break system tools, such as the ones used in DNF. Once you’ve broken dnf, it is hard to fix those libraries since dnf is the tool to fix them.
-- Jonathan Billings
On Sat, 22 Jan 2022 at 08:49, Jonathan Billings billings@negate.org wrote:
On Jan 22, 2022, at 06:35, Dorian ROSSE dorianbrice@hotmail.fr wrote:
Have you tried 'pip3 install python3dist ' ?
I never suggest Fedora users run ‘pip’ as root, except when in a virtualenv, dockerfile or some contained environment.
It is far too easy for pip to overwrite or override a packaged python library and break system tools, such as the ones used in DNF. Once you’ve broken dnf, it is hard to fix those libraries since dnf is the tool to fix them.
I agree. One of the "mission critical" packages has a "private" module called snappy, but a widely used Google compression package also called snappy has been installed on many systems. Envs are, however, problematic for the group of users who have never used a command-liine before. They are often puzzled why their GUI tool doesn't find the package they just installed to a Python env.
dnf need to become tough because pip and pip3 are the mostly packager used by all import,
Regards.
Dorian Rosse. ________________________________ From: George N. White III gnwiii@gmail.com Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2022 2:32:45 PM To: Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: python3dist(sphinx-math-dollar)
On Sat, 22 Jan 2022 at 08:49, Jonathan Billings <billings@negate.orgmailto:billings@negate.org> wrote: On Jan 22, 2022, at 06:35, Dorian ROSSE <dorianbrice@hotmail.frmailto:dorianbrice@hotmail.fr> wrote:
Have you tried 'pip3 install python3dist ' ?
I never suggest Fedora users run ‘pip’ as root, except when in a virtualenv, dockerfile or some contained environment.
It is far too easy for pip to overwrite or override a packaged python library and break system tools, such as the ones used in DNF. Once you’ve broken dnf, it is hard to fix those libraries since dnf is the tool to fix them.
I agree. One of the "mission critical" packages has a "private" module called snappy, but a widely used Google compression package also called snappy has been installed on many systems. Envs are, however, problematic for the group of users who have never used a command-liine before. They are often puzzled why their GUI tool doesn't find the package they just installed to a Python env.
-- George N. White III
On Sat, 2022-01-22 at 09:32 -0400, George N. White III wrote:
One of the "mission critical" packages has a "private" module called snappy, but a widely used Google compression package also called snappy has been installed on many systems.
I'm surprised this sort of thing (two different programs using the same name) doesn't happen a lot more often.
With an environment under some kind of distribution control (Fedora and its RPM repos), you could expect that to be managed (first in best dressed, second person has to choose a different name). Though there's no one answer for how to deal with this across multiple distros.
And when you run a installed system with programs acquired from various different sources you can't do that, either. There's no one entity in control.
Envs are, however, problematic for the group of users who have never used a command-liine before. They are often puzzled why their GUI tool doesn't find the package they just installed to a Python env.
I can't fathom how anybody could be a computer user and have no experience with using a CLI. It's staggering that there are computer users who've never written a program before (and the idea of non- computer nerds wanting to use computers is odd, too). When I was young, we had no OS (beyond a disc loader), we had to create our own programs (usually on pen and paper, first). And I find it impossible to believe the idea that someone could create software solely using GUI.
On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 at 11:44, Tim via users users@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
[...] I can't fathom how anybody could be a computer user and have no experience with using a CLI. It's staggering that there are computer users who've never written a program before (and the idea of non- computer nerds wanting to use computers is odd, too). When I was young, we had no OS (beyond a disc loader), we had to create our own programs (usually on pen and paper, first). And I find it impossible to believe the idea that someone could create software solely using GUI.
This is called "culture clash". There is a lot of going around. I grew up in a small town with the cultural variety of New York City but too few of any group outside the indigenous locals to make it possible for anyone to avoid daily contact with multiple other cultures. Auto repair shops, for example, were mostly owned by Eastern Europeans but often had to hire and train locals whose only experience was with horse drawn wagons, etc. We all learned to laugh about cultural differences when they came up.
Before retiring I tried to help some colleagues get started on Python using "Learn Python the Hard Way" but they all gave up after a few lessons and went back to Excel (it didn't help that IT had the attitude: "they can do it all in Excel").
Now I work with big GUI systems from ESA and NASA that allow many users to do their work without meeting a command-line, but the systems are far from robust and as soon as something breaks, command-line tools are required to sort them out.
On Sat, 22 Jan 2022 07:48:47 -0500 Jonathan Billings billings@negate.org wrote:
On Jan 22, 2022, at 06:35, Dorian ROSSE dorianbrice@hotmail.fr wrote:
Have you tried 'pip3 install python3dist ' ?
I never suggest Fedora users run ‘pip’ as root, except when in a virtualenv, dockerfile or some contained environment.
It is far too easy for pip to overwrite or override a packaged python library and break system tools, such as the ones used in DNF. Once you’ve broken dnf, it is hard to fix those libraries since dnf is the tool to fix them.
ObXKCD: https://xkcd.com/1987/
But seriously, I used to use the cpan command to install missing Perl modules. That led to many interesting problems, especially after system updates. I now build my own RPMs (cpanspec is great). The has many advantages: the same software is available on many computers, system and package updates are easy, and the spec file documents how thee software was built. The current Fedora packaging tooling also makes it easy to build Python packages as RPMs. https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/packaging-guidelines/Python/
It would be great if the Fedora project were to emphasize the advantages to sysadmins and developers of build their own RPMs.
Jim
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Dorian ROSSE -
George N. White III -
James Szinger -
Jonathan Billings -
Tim