Hi, I have loaded Fedora13 without a hitch and am impressed by the improvements!
However, I am just now beginning Java programming and I am wondering if there is any substantial difference between java-1.6.0-openjdk and the sun jdk.
If I decide to remove the openjava and work only with the Sun JDK at this time, how do i make sure that all of the many openjava related files are removed?
Thanks,
Bob
However, I am just now beginning Java programming and I am wondering if there is any substantial difference between java-1.6.0-openjdk and the sun jdk.
As a beginning programmer, no. The differences are highly technical in nature and do not show themselves early on in your endeavor as a programmer. There is a noticeable performance loss on older platforms, but that's not true on semi-modern machines, I find.
On 07/25/2010 01:06 AM, Jonathan Beatty wrote:
However, I am just now beginning Java programming and I am wondering if there is any substantial difference between java-1.6.0-openjdk and the sun jdk.
As a beginning programmer, no. The differences are highly technical in nature and do not show themselves early on in your endeavor as a programmer. There is a noticeable performance loss on older platforms, but that's not true on semi-modern machines, I find.
I think you can install both and use the "alternatives" mechanism to choose which one to use.
On 07/25/2010 05:43 AM, Bob Hartung wrote:
I have loaded Fedora13 without a hitch and am impressed by the improvements!
However, I am just now beginning Java programming and I am wondering if there is any substantial difference between java-1.6.0-openjdk and the sun jdk.
They are based on the same source code and both conform to the same language specification. For almost all purposes you won't see any difference.
Andrew.
On 26/07/10 11:41, Andrew Haley wrote:
On 07/25/2010 05:43 AM, Bob Hartung wrote:
I have loaded Fedora13 without a hitch and am impressed by theimprovements!
However, I am just now beginning Java programming and I am wonderingif there is any substantial difference between java-1.6.0-openjdk and the sun jdk.
They are based on the same source code and both conform to the same language specification. For almost all purposes you won't see any difference.
Except logon to my netbank which only is possible using Sun's java. :-(
On 28/07/10 01:54, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 07/26/2010 03:48 PM, Erik P. Olsen wrote:
Except logon to my netbank which only is possible using Sun's java. :-(
Do you have a bug report on that?
No, but I have been working with Deepak Bhole on trying to solve the problem. It is probably one of the bugs which is impossible to fix.
* Erik P. Olsen epodata@gmail.com [2010-07-28 02:02]:
On 28/07/10 01:54, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 07/26/2010 03:48 PM, Erik P. Olsen wrote:
Except logon to my netbank which only is possible using Sun's java. :-(
Do you have a bug report on that?
No, but I have been working with Deepak Bhole on trying to solve the problem. It is probably one of the bugs which is impossible to fix.
Yeah, this has been one of those troubled applets :/
Erik, which was the last build you tried? I think it is worth re-visiting this issue -- Fedora now ships with a newer plugin. The upcoming update fixes a lot of issues, and I'd be happy to give you a scratch build if the current Fedora version is still non-functional..
Thanks, Deepak
-- Erik -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
On 28/07/10 18:11, Deepak Bhole wrote:
- Erik P. Olsenepodata@gmail.com [2010-07-28 02:02]:
On 28/07/10 01:54, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 07/26/2010 03:48 PM, Erik P. Olsen wrote:
Except logon to my netbank which only is possible using Sun's java. :-(
Do you have a bug report on that?
No, but I have been working with Deepak Bhole on trying to solve the problem. It is probably one of the bugs which is impossible to fix.
Yeah, this has been one of those troubled applets :/
Erik, which was the last build you tried? I think it is worth re-visiting this issue -- Fedora now ships with a newer plugin. The upcoming update fixes a lot of issues, and I'd be happy to give you a scratch build if the current Fedora version is still non-functional..
I have Fedora 13 a test system complete with IcedTea6 1.8 and without Sun's java. I can log on to my netbank as I could before but in order to be accepted I must verify who I am using an Active Card from Actividentity. I am normally (with Sun's java) prompted for the code from the Active Card but with IcedTea that prompt never shows up.
I am willing to try again with your new update.
On 28/07/10 23:21, Erik P. Olsen wrote:
On 28/07/10 18:11, Deepak Bhole wrote:
- Erik P. Olsenepodata@gmail.com [2010-07-28 02:02]:
On 28/07/10 01:54, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 07/26/2010 03:48 PM, Erik P. Olsen wrote:
Except logon to my netbank which only is possible using Sun's java. :-(
Do you have a bug report on that?
No, but I have been working with Deepak Bhole on trying to solve the problem. It is probably one of the bugs which is impossible to fix.
Yeah, this has been one of those troubled applets :/
Erik, which was the last build you tried? I think it is worth re-visiting this issue -- Fedora now ships with a newer plugin. The upcoming update fixes a lot of issues, and I'd be happy to give you a scratch build if the current Fedora version is still non-functional..
I have Fedora 13 a test system complete with IcedTea6 1.8 and without Sun's java. I can log on to my netbank as I could before but in order to be accepted I must verify who I am using an Active Card from Actividentity. I am normally (with Sun's java) prompted for the code from the Active Card but with IcedTea that prompt never shows up.
I am willing to try again with your new update.
Deepak, is there anything I can do to help fix this bug?
* Erik P. Olsen epodata@gmail.com [2010-08-05 16:51]:
On 28/07/10 23:21, Erik P. Olsen wrote:
On 28/07/10 18:11, Deepak Bhole wrote:
- Erik P. Olsenepodata@gmail.com [2010-07-28 02:02]:
On 28/07/10 01:54, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 07/26/2010 03:48 PM, Erik P. Olsen wrote:
Except logon to my netbank which only is possible using Sun's java. :-(
Do you have a bug report on that?
No, but I have been working with Deepak Bhole on trying to solve the problem. It is probably one of the bugs which is impossible to fix.
Yeah, this has been one of those troubled applets :/
Erik, which was the last build you tried? I think it is worth re-visiting this issue -- Fedora now ships with a newer plugin. The upcoming update fixes a lot of issues, and I'd be happy to give you a scratch build if the current Fedora version is still non-functional..
I have Fedora 13 a test system complete with IcedTea6 1.8 and without Sun's java. I can log on to my netbank as I could before but in order to be accepted I must verify who I am using an Active Card from Actividentity. I am normally (with Sun's java) prompted for the code from the Active Card but with IcedTea that prompt never shows up.
I am willing to try again with your new update.
Deepak, is there anything I can do to help fix this bug?
Hi Erik,
Sorry, I got caught up with something else and didn't want to get back to this issue until I was sure I had time (based on what you've said, it is going to be a bit messy to trace). I think I can set aside enough time now to track this down though.
Let's start where we did before. It seems now that that the applet is loading. So it is not a parser/loader issue like before. Given that you encounter the error during auth, this seems to be a deeper problem.
Can you once again run firefox with ICEDTEAPLUGIN_DEBUG=true and send me the console and ~/.icedteaplugin/java.std* files please?
Thanks! Deepak
-- Erik
On 05/08/10 23:01, Deepak Bhole wrote:
- Erik P. Olsenepodata@gmail.com [2010-08-05 16:51]:
On 28/07/10 23:21, Erik P. Olsen wrote:
On 28/07/10 18:11, Deepak Bhole wrote:
- Erik P. Olsenepodata@gmail.com [2010-07-28 02:02]:
On 28/07/10 01:54, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 07/26/2010 03:48 PM, Erik P. Olsen wrote: > Except logon to my netbank which only is possible using Sun's java. > :-( >
Do you have a bug report on that?
No, but I have been working with Deepak Bhole on trying to solve the problem. It is probably one of the bugs which is impossible to fix.
Yeah, this has been one of those troubled applets :/
Erik, which was the last build you tried? I think it is worth re-visiting this issue -- Fedora now ships with a newer plugin. The upcoming update fixes a lot of issues, and I'd be happy to give you a scratch build if the current Fedora version is still non-functional..
I have Fedora 13 a test system complete with IcedTea6 1.8 and without Sun's java. I can log on to my netbank as I could before but in order to be accepted I must verify who I am using an Active Card from Actividentity. I am normally (with Sun's java) prompted for the code from the Active Card but with IcedTea that prompt never shows up.
I am willing to try again with your new update.
Deepak, is there anything I can do to help fix this bug?
Hi Erik,
Sorry, I got caught up with something else and didn't want to get back to this issue until I was sure I had time (based on what you've said, it is going to be a bit messy to trace). I think I can set aside enough time now to track this down though.
Let's start where we did before. It seems now that that the applet is loading. So it is not a parser/loader issue like before. Given that you encounter the error during auth, this seems to be a deeper problem.
Can you once again run firefox with ICEDTEAPLUGIN_DEBUG=true and send me the console and ~/.icedteaplugin/java.std* files please?
Console: [erik@epognome ~]$ firefox >firefox.log java version "1.6.0_18" OpenJDK Runtime Environment (IcedTea6 1.8) (fedora-41.b18.fc13-i386) OpenJDK Client VM (build 14.0-b16, mixed mode) /builddir/build/BUILD/icedtea6-1.8/plugin/icedteanp/IcedTeaNPPlugin.cc:622: thread 0xb7613760: Error: Unknown plugin value requested. [erik@epognome ~]$
firefox.log: eSecurekey (build JL410083) started. CallBackLoaded not found! eSecurekey (build JL410083) started. CallBackLoaded not found! Warning: No PCID generated. CallBack not found! eSecurekey (build JL410083) started.
java.stderr: Empty
java.stdout: eSecurekey (build JL410083) started. eSecurekey (build JL410083) started. Warning: No PCID generated. eSecurekey (build JL410083) started.
* Erik P. Olsen epodata@gmail.com [2010-08-05 18:39]:
On 05/08/10 23:01, Deepak Bhole wrote:
- Erik P. Olsenepodata@gmail.com [2010-08-05 16:51]:
On 28/07/10 23:21, Erik P. Olsen wrote:
On 28/07/10 18:11, Deepak Bhole wrote:
- Erik P. Olsenepodata@gmail.com [2010-07-28 02:02]:
On 28/07/10 01:54, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >On 07/26/2010 03:48 PM, Erik P. Olsen wrote: >>Except logon to my netbank which only is possible using Sun's java. >>:-( >> > >Do you have a bug report on that?
No, but I have been working with Deepak Bhole on trying to solve the problem. It is probably one of the bugs which is impossible to fix.
Yeah, this has been one of those troubled applets :/
Erik, which was the last build you tried? I think it is worth re-visiting this issue -- Fedora now ships with a newer plugin. The upcoming update fixes a lot of issues, and I'd be happy to give you a scratch build if the current Fedora version is still non-functional..
I have Fedora 13 a test system complete with IcedTea6 1.8 and without Sun's java. I can log on to my netbank as I could before but in order to be accepted I must verify who I am using an Active Card from Actividentity. I am normally (with Sun's java) prompted for the code from the Active Card but with IcedTea that prompt never shows up.
I am willing to try again with your new update.
Deepak, is there anything I can do to help fix this bug?
Hi Erik,
Sorry, I got caught up with something else and didn't want to get back to this issue until I was sure I had time (based on what you've said, it is going to be a bit messy to trace). I think I can set aside enough time now to track this down though.
Let's start where we did before. It seems now that that the applet is loading. So it is not a parser/loader issue like before. Given that you encounter the error during auth, this seems to be a deeper problem.
Can you once again run firefox with ICEDTEAPLUGIN_DEBUG=true and send me the console and ~/.icedteaplugin/java.std* files please?
Console: [erik@epognome ~]$ firefox >firefox.log java version "1.6.0_18" OpenJDK Runtime Environment (IcedTea6 1.8) (fedora-41.b18.fc13-i386) OpenJDK Client VM (build 14.0-b16, mixed mode) /builddir/build/BUILD/icedtea6-1.8/plugin/icedteanp/IcedTeaNPPlugin.cc:622: thread 0xb7613760: Error: Unknown plugin value requested. [erik@epognome ~]$
firefox.log: eSecurekey (build JL410083) started. CallBackLoaded not found! eSecurekey (build JL410083) started. CallBackLoaded not found! Warning: No PCID generated. CallBack not found! eSecurekey (build JL410083) started.
java.stderr: Empty
java.stdout: eSecurekey (build JL410083) started. eSecurekey (build JL410083) started. Warning: No PCID generated. eSecurekey (build JL410083) started.
Hi Erik,
That does not contain the debug log unfortunately. You need to start firefox as:
ICEDTEAPLUGIN_DEBUG=true firefox >& firefox.log
Cheers, Deepak
-- Erik
Am 26.07.2010 11:41, schrieb Andrew Haley:
On 07/25/2010 05:43 AM, Bob Hartung wrote:
I have loaded Fedora13 without a hitch and am impressed by theimprovements!
However, I am just now beginning Java programming and I am wonderingif there is any substantial difference between java-1.6.0-openjdk and the sun jdk.
They are based on the same source code and both conform to the same language specification. For almost all purposes you won't see any difference.
I cannot confirm that. In real live, with Java apps not developed for OpenJava, 50% of the "large" applets as developed using Sun JDK fail with OpenJava. A simple example: The german tax office has an online tax system called "Elster". There is an applet for secure communication with Elster using public/private keys, this applet fails using OpenJava. Another example is related to javax.imageio, output of images to files simply does not work in OpenJava. Installation of Sun Java is one of the first modifications I do to Fedora. Unfortunately, on every update of OpenJava, OpenJava would become the default Java again.
M$ has given the freedom of selecting between IE, Firefox, Opera etc. It would be a good act of freedom to give the fedora user the choice between OpenJava and SunJava. At now, half the Fedora System depends on OpenJava (same story as of Windows depends on IE), for that reason I cannot deselect OpenJava.
Joerg
On 26/07/10 12:33, Joerg Bergmann wrote:
Am 26.07.2010 11:41, schrieb Andrew Haley:
On 07/25/2010 05:43 AM, Bob Hartung wrote:
I have loaded Fedora13 without a hitch and am impressed by theimprovements!
However, I am just now beginning Java programming and I am wonderingif there is any substantial difference between java-1.6.0-openjdk and the sun jdk.
They are based on the same source code and both conform to the same language specification. For almost all purposes you won't see any difference.
I cannot confirm that. In real live, with Java apps not developed for OpenJava, 50% of the "large" applets as developed using Sun JDK fail with OpenJava. A simple example: The german tax office has an online tax system called "Elster". There is an applet for secure communication with Elster using public/private keys, this applet fails using OpenJava. Another example is related to javax.imageio, output of images to files simply does not work in OpenJava. Installation of Sun Java is one of the first modifications I do to Fedora. Unfortunately, on every update of OpenJava, OpenJava would become the default Java again.
M$ has given the freedom of selecting between IE, Firefox, Opera etc. It would be a good act of freedom to give the fedora user the choice between OpenJava and SunJava. At now, half the Fedora System depends on OpenJava (same story as of Windows depends on IE), for that reason I cannot deselect OpenJava.
I have completely removed java-1.6.0-openjdk before installing Sun's java and have not noticed any problem with that. Do you have an example of an application that won't work unless openjdk is also installed?
Am 26.07.2010 13:36, schrieb Erik P. Olsen:
On 26/07/10 12:33, Joerg Bergmann wrote:
Am 26.07.2010 11:41, schrieb Andrew Haley:On 07/25/2010 05:43 AM, Bob Hartung wrote:
I have loaded Fedora13 without a hitch and am impressed by theimprovements!
However, I am just now beginning Java programming and I am wonderingif there is any substantial difference between java-1.6.0-openjdk and the sun jdk.
They are based on the same source code and both conform to the same language specification. For almost all purposes you won't see any difference.
I cannot confirm that. In real live, with Java apps not developed for OpenJava, 50% of the "large" applets as developed using Sun JDK fail with OpenJava. A simple example: The german tax office has an online tax system called "Elster". There is an applet for secure communication with Elster using public/private keys, this applet fails using OpenJava. Another example is related to javax.imageio, output of images to files simply does not work in OpenJava. Installation of Sun Java is one of the first modifications I do to Fedora. Unfortunately, on every update of OpenJava, OpenJava would become the default Java again.
M$ has given the freedom of selecting between IE, Firefox, Opera etc. It would be a good act of freedom to give the fedora user the choice between OpenJava and SunJava. At now, half the Fedora System depends on OpenJava (same story as of Windows depends on IE), for that reason I cannot deselect OpenJava.
I have completely removed java-1.6.0-openjdk before installing Sun's java and have not noticed any problem with that. Do you have an example of an application that won't work unless openjdk is also installed?
I just tried to uninstall OpenJava (plus GJC java), obviously the whole OpenOffice depends on OpenJava. No way out.
Joerg
On 26/07/10 15:53, Joerg Bergmann wrote:
Am 26.07.2010 13:36, schrieb Erik P. Olsen:
On 26/07/10 12:33, Joerg Bergmann wrote:
Am 26.07.2010 11:41, schrieb Andrew Haley:On 07/25/2010 05:43 AM, Bob Hartung wrote:
I have loaded Fedora13 without a hitch and am impressed by theimprovements!
However, I am just now beginning Java programming and I am wonderingif there is any substantial difference between java-1.6.0-openjdk and the sun jdk.
They are based on the same source code and both conform to the same language specification. For almost all purposes you won't see any difference.
I cannot confirm that. In real live, with Java apps not developed for OpenJava, 50% of the "large" applets as developed using Sun JDK fail with OpenJava. A simple example: The german tax office has an online tax system called "Elster". There is an applet for secure communication with Elster using public/private keys, this applet fails using OpenJava. Another example is related to javax.imageio, output of images to files simply does not work in OpenJava. Installation of Sun Java is one of the first modifications I do to Fedora. Unfortunately, on every update of OpenJava, OpenJava would become the default Java again.
M$ has given the freedom of selecting between IE, Firefox, Opera etc. It would be a good act of freedom to give the fedora user the choice between OpenJava and SunJava. At now, half the Fedora System depends on OpenJava (same story as of Windows depends on IE), for that reason I cannot deselect OpenJava.
I have completely removed java-1.6.0-openjdk before installing Sun's java and have not noticed any problem with that. Do you have an example of an application that won't work unless openjdk is also installed?
I just tried to uninstall OpenJava (plus GJC java), obviously the whole OpenOffice depends on OpenJava. No way out.
I don't think so. I run OpenOffice all the time and I do not have OpenJava installed. And Oracle owns OpenOffice so why should they disallow their own java?
On 07/26/2010 11:33 AM, Joerg Bergmann wrote:
Am 26.07.2010 11:41, schrieb Andrew Haley:
On 07/25/2010 05:43 AM, Bob Hartung wrote:
I have loaded Fedora13 without a hitch and am impressed by theimprovements!
However, I am just now beginning Java programming and I am wonderingif there is any substantial difference between java-1.6.0-openjdk and the sun jdk.
They are based on the same source code and both conform to the same language specification. For almost all purposes you won't see any difference.
I cannot confirm that. In real live, with Java apps not developed for OpenJava, 50% of the "large" applets as developed using Sun JDK fail with OpenJava.
That's really a very different use case: the web browser plugin, while important, isn't part of the Java SE platform, and is not very likely to affect anyone who wants to learn the Java language.
Andrew.
* Joerg Bergmann email@jbergmann.de [2010-07-26 06:34]:
Am 26.07.2010 11:41, schrieb Andrew Haley:
On 07/25/2010 05:43 AM, Bob Hartung wrote:
I have loaded Fedora13 without a hitch and am impressed by theimprovements!
However, I am just now beginning Java programming and I am wonderingif there is any substantial difference between java-1.6.0-openjdk and the sun jdk.
They are based on the same source code and both conform to the same language specification. For almost all purposes you won't see any difference.
I cannot confirm that. In real live, with Java apps not developed for OpenJava, 50% of the "large" applets as developed using Sun JDK fail with OpenJava. A simple example: The german tax office has an online tax system called "Elster". There is an applet for secure communication with Elster using public/private keys, this applet fails using OpenJava. Another example is related to javax.imageio, output of images to files simply does not work in OpenJava. Installation of Sun Java is one of the first modifications I do to Fedora. Unfortunately, on every update of OpenJava, OpenJava would become the default Java again.
As Andrew mentioned in another reply, the plugin and webstart in Fedora's OpenJDK rpm are independent of upstream OpenJDK itself. Upstream OpenJDK distributed by Oracle does not contain plugin and WebStart implementations, and we add them later via the IcedTea project [1].
That said, I don't think '50% working' is correct for the plugin in Fedora. It works far better than that. Additionally, we follow up on bugs and try to fix whatever we can. However the proprietary nature of many applets makes it quite challenging -- impossible in some cases without decompiling their code, which is something we cannot do.
What is the bug# for the Elster system not working?
Cheers, Deepak
1: http://icedtea.classpath.org/wiki/Main_Page
M$ has given the freedom of selecting between IE, Firefox, Opera etc. It would be a good act of freedom to give the fedora user the choice between OpenJava and SunJava. At now, half the Fedora System depends on OpenJava (same story as of Windows depends on IE), for that reason I cannot deselect OpenJava.
Joerg
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