Maybe you'll remember I had problems opening files in Firefox from TBird. If I clicked a link, it wouldn't automatically open in Firefox. Here's the solution.
Under Edit => Preferences => Advanced => General, you have "System defaults" which says "Always check to see if Firefox is the default browser on startup". This option should be checked under all circumstances if you plan to use Firefox by default. Here's why I didn't check it.
While checking other options a while back, I saw this one and thought I didn't need this as I only use Firefox to view html files. If ever any application made Konqueror the default, I'd just have to come back and remake a check mark to the option. But this never happened.
What happened is that when Firefox was upgraded from 3.5.6 to 3.5.8, Firefox just stopped opening when I clicked a link in TBird. That's when Evolution, where links didn't open either, was kind enough to provide the following message:
"Failed to execute child process "/usr/lib64/firefox-3.5.6/firefox" (No such file or directory). Of course, I have 3.5.8 installed."
So, somehow, Firefox wasn't pointing to the right version. Of course, I didn't know that this had anything to do with selecting the default browser. Yet, it did!!! When I clicked the "Check now" button, everything came back to normal.
May I ask why you have to check the "default browser" option to update to a new *version* of Firefox?
Need I add that, before finding the solution, I wandered the Web for hours examining options like adding:
user_pref("network.protocol-handler.app.http","mozilla-firefox"); user_pref("network.protocol-handler.app.https","mozilla-firefox");
to prefs.js ?
&&&
Same goes for my "pdf files not opening in Evince from Firefox" problem: mozplugger wasn't enabled. In Plugins, under Mozplugger, one can read "handles Quick Time and Windows Media Player plugin" Not a word about Evinve.
A few months ago, I had problems with opening WMV files and somebody told me that gstreamer or gMplayer or something in the paraphernalia could handle this correctly and that MozPlugger could prove a hinderance. So, I believe I disabled it... and, strangely, had no problem with pdf files until Firefox -- and maybe Evince too? -- was updated.
&&&
While I was searching to solve the Firefox problem, I thought I'd take a break an see how things worked with SeaMonkey. Everything was fine. So I thought I'd test it further and I imported "Everything" from Thunderbird. I checked a few newsgroups and, I suppose that it's after rebooting that all the data disappeared both from Thunderbird and SeaMonkey. Lost! All the messages I had saved! (Of course, I had a recent back-up. Still...)
I went into .thunderbird and saw all files were there in ".foo.default/Mail/Local Folder". But a "Local Folder-1" had been created which was empty and apparently the only one available to use. Anyways, I finally recovered all the data from a back-up but, once again, what a pain!
Is it just me who has this kind of problems? Sometimes I believe that I don't have a single application that works 100% correctly or for which the information is correct.
&&&
When I search "alsa" in Dolphin, the best file browser I found so far, I get:
nepomuksearch:/?sparql=select distinct ?r where { { { ?r ?v1 ?v2 . ?v2 bif:contains "'alsa*'" . } UNION { ?r ?v1 ?v3 . ?v3 ?v4 ?v2 . ?v4 http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#subPropertyOf http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#label . ?v2 bif:contains "'alsa*'" . } . { ?r a ?v5 . ?v5 http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#subClassOf http://www.semanticdesktop.org/ontologies/2007/03/22/nfo#FileDataObject . } UNION { ?r a ?v6 . ?v6 http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#subClassOf http://www.semanticdesktop.org/ontologies/2007/03/22/nfo#Folder . } . } . }
&&&
Klipper is the best clipboard manager I have found. Still, sometimes I select something in a web page and it doesn't enter the clipboard; I have to select it twice. At other times, the selection enters the clipboard but doesn't paste, even though it's on top of the clipboard entries. I must reselect it in the clipboard before it pastes.
&&&
Oh, a really funny one. Here's what Knode looked like when I opened it today:
What's this:
Loca... O... Sent Dr...
Moving the vertical bar doesn't lengthen the names and I saw no option in the menus for this. Anyway, it doesn't make sense. Why do "Loca" and "Sent" have 4 letters whereas "O" has only one and "Dr" -- for drafts, I suppose -- just 2? Even if there was an option in a menu, I'm sure it couldn't create such a mess.
&&&
Then, there is this problem with my BIOS, which leaves me the only options of setting the user and Superuser passwords. I shorted the CMOS and everything went back to normal. Rebooted, no more options again. Of course, there's a sleuth of different mobos but I bought mine 8 months ago and it was out in Asia roughly 6 months earlier.
It's really funny to learn from people here that market share isn't important, because Linux isn't a business. Apparently, making mobos is, though... Maybe if Linux had more market share, we'd get the drivers more easily, open... or closed.
&&&
Some people might suggest that, since I'm far from an expert, I should switch to Ubuntu. Well, I did try Mint in order to see if it could get sound to my TV. It booted to a black screen. YAC! (Yet Another Coaster!)
&&&
I could go on like this for days. It reminds me of when I began using Linux in 2001 and it was "Next year everything will get better." So, I can't help but to wonder: do you people, for instance, work with clipboard managers that work flawlessly?
If I'm the only one with those problems, I suppose I'm dealing with a skewer of very imaginative hackers. And this, despite my modem/router being so fully stealthed at grc.com that I can't even make a traceroute; despite not offering a single service; despite having SELinux fully enabled and making updates as soon as they are available. Is there a security problem with Fedora despite having all the security options enabled?
If you indeed experience at least some of the bugs I'm facing, how come they don't get fixed? Don't you all fill bug reports to tell the Klipper developers that "New File" gets into the clipboard every time you create a new file, being, of course, assured that the poor developers all have such peculiar hardware at hand that, they never noticed the bug that has driven everybody crazy for years?
I've heard that Red Hat 6 will be based on Fedora 12 and 13. What will the New York Stock Exchange have to deal with: bugs or security holes?
If we all face the same non hardware related bugs -- meaning I'm not speaking here about my mobo and sound problems --, isn't this driving most people away from Linux? Is the way of dealing with this saying, like some people on this group: "You don't like the way Linux doesn't work? Well, get this: we're not McDonald. Go away!"
Isn't recognizing the problems the first step in dealing with them? Then, maybe there should be a repository for default software, the ones against which the least bugs have been found. Or a 1 to 5 star system that would entice developers to do a cleaner job.
Maybe you have other solutions, but I'm afraid that, while programmers can tune Linux into doing wonderful things, on the Desktop, the development model just doesn't work. The problem is not that people are not filling in enough bug reports. Some developers just don't care.
As a matter of fact, from all the resources I saw available to Windows Firefox and TBird users while researching my problems, it seemed that more are available to Windows users than to Linux users. In such a context, with Firefox, TBird, OOo, The GIMP, Apache and so much more(1), available to Windows users, what's the incentive for them to switch to Linux?
(1) See a list on those 2 pages: http://www.opensourcewindows.org/
I'm sure Ballmer kicked his developers' ass until they provided a completely flawless clipboard application. Most probably, with Windows, I wouldn't have any problem with my mobo and sound. After using Linux exclusively for 8 years, I almost feel as if the Linux community was telling me I should run to the store where I bought my computer and ask for the OEM version of Windows before my one year guarantee period is over.
Whatever nonsense Mr White might throw at me to state that real Linux believers never admit there's a problem, I say there is a HUUUUGE problem.
And, like it or not, this is my contribution.
On Fri, 2010-03-05 at 21:21 -0500, Marcel Rieux wrote:
Whatever nonsense Mr White might throw at me to state that real Linux believers never admit there's a problem, I say there is a HUUUUGE problem.
And, like it or not, this is my contribution.
---- there isn't a problem, at least not one that you can't become part of the solution as it is a participatory software development system (Fedora, Linux, open source software in general).
As long as you don't believe that ranting on this list in any way constitutes valuable feedback, then I don't disagree with many of the things that you say.
But your contribution, in the context of ranting on this list is generally worthless because like most everyone else, I will simply click delete and be done with it. If you obtain some type of catharsis from your rant, well then it wasn't the entire waste of electrons that I see it to be.
Bugzilla is your friend. Upstream bugzilla's are often even better and more targeted to the source (ie, KDE, Mozilla). Perhaps some day the light bulb will illuminate and you will figure out that bug reporting is much more effective than ranting on the list.
Enjoy
Craig
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 10:39 PM, Craig White craigwhite@azapple.com wrote:
On Fri, 2010-03-05 at 21:21 -0500, Marcel Rieux wrote:
Whatever nonsense Mr White might throw at me to state that real Linux believers never admit there's a problem, I say there is a HUUUUGE problem.
And, like it or not, this is my contribution.
there isn't a problem, at least not one that you can't become part of the solution as it is a participatory software development system (Fedora, Linux, open source software in general).
As long as you don't believe that ranting on this list in any way constitutes valuable feedback
To me, stating that there are clearly too many problems and that the development model for the Desktop needs a fix is definitely not "just ranting".
But your contribution, in the context of ranting on this list is generally worthless because like most everyone else, I will simply click delete and be done with it.
This you certainly can do, but let me give you my 2 cents on the "if it doesn't work, the code is there, just fix it" view.
When I began using Linux, in 2001, I was 50. There was already no chance I would become a developer. But, hey, Linux was to become popular just next year. Maybe I could help the neighbour install it? Then it was next year, next year, next year and it's still next year.
In November 2001, my doctor told me I needed "a little pill" to help my kidneys. Already, in 2007, I was taking for more than $1,000 of medication a month, including Eprex. At the last blood test (one every 2 weeks) my creatinine was at 200 and urea at more than thrice the maximum level. I might soon have to go on dialysis. It will leave me less time to fix stupid problems on my system and my poor brain, which already suffers from sleep deprivation -- this is what is really killing me! --, will be less clear than ever. Not only the neighbour would rather give me $100 so that I DON'T install Linux on his system, but I might have myself to switch to Windows myself.
Windows is not as bad as some Linux users pretend, you know. If you do your updates on time and don't download anything in sight on your computer, it will resist pretty much all attacks. Ask Charlie Miller!
And Ballmer will make sure the clipboard works!
The problem with Windows is that it represents all that I've been fighting for all my life, you know, easy money based on scams that finally destroys civilisations.
If I die using Windows, will it be for a lack of developers? Of course not!
Trolltech has been sold to Nokia. Nokia fights against html5. The rotten -- guess what this icon is -- interface seems accepted without question, but I'd bet they've lost most of their user base. They certainly lost me... and Linus Torvalds :) What will those developers be developing for next? Windows free software? OS X software? Who knows, we might very well lose some.
What lacks in this organisation is recognizing the problems and fixing them. If there are too many file managers, pick one, put it in a default repository, and you'll have other developers either quitting or fighting for their place in the sun.
Linux is now 19 years old and the "next year" excuse has exhausted all its resources.
I have to buy my Window copy before 3 months. If I see no more change in those 3 months as in the, roughly, 13 years that I've followed Linux development, I'll have no choice but to switch back to Windows. Maybe this means nothing to you but, believe me, it means something to me. It's really something I'd rather not see happen.
Bugzilla is your friend.
You read nothing. Bugzilla is a joke! 2 years and you still can delete a file on your desktop without being notified. In the present context, it's just ridiculous! The day I see bugs being fixed with diligence, I'll begin filing bug reports.
For now, if Red Hat 6 will be based on Fedora 12 and 13, Red Hat would be better off taking good note of what I write here. If they continue fixing the bugs only in Red Hat in order to tell the customers "You want something that works? Forget about Fedora, pay for RHEL", I foresee a major switch to CentOS 6 by Fedora users.
No more answers tonight.
On Sat, 2010-03-06 at 02:17 -0500, Marcel Rieux wrote:
I have to buy my Window copy before 3 months. If I see no more change in those 3 months as in the, roughly, 13 years that I've followed Linux development, I'll have no choice but to switch back to Windows. Maybe this means nothing to you but, believe me, it means something to me. It's really something I'd rather not see happen.
I for one have never understood the "I'm switching back to Windows" threat. If Windows suits your needs more fully than does Linux, then by all means: use Windows. Sure, we may discourage that; but we as a community cannot force you to use something which you dislike or disagree with. The decision of OS/software selection is yours and yours alone to make.
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 2:17 AM, Marcel Rieux m.z.rieux@gmail.com wrote:
Trolltech has been sold to Nokia. Nokia fights against html5. The rotten -- guess what this icon is -- interface seems accepted without question, but I'd bet they've lost most of their user base. They certainly lost me... and Linus Torvalds :) What will those developers be developing for next? Windows free software? OS X software? Who knows, we might very well lose some.
Man, it was getting late! You know how dark you envision reality when it's late...
Of course, the boys will keep on working for Open Source! They'll work for The Machine. Google, ChromeOS, Android! Making a fortune with popular apps. Waiting to join The Organization.
And that's the nicest future Linux could dream of, you know, being incarnated in The Company That Does No Evil.
When other companies wake up in the morning their employees ask themselves: "What evil are we going to do today?" No so at Google's. They only follow the plan.
And the plan is having everybody on the plan-et with nice little next to no CPU cheap computers connecting to The Machine. Wonderful plan.
This is going to work. Whereas Linux has to fight to be installed on maybe .01% of the hardware, manufacturers flock to get Android.
I can almost hear new employees being greeted with a song:
Welcome my son, welcome to The Machine. Where have you been? It's alright we know where you've been. You've been in the pipeline, filling in time
On Sat, 6 Mar 2010 15:56:57 -0500 Marcel Rieux m.z.rieux@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 2:17 AM, Marcel Rieux m.z.rieux@gmail.com wrote:
Trolltech has been sold to Nokia. Nokia fights against html5. The rotten -- guess what this icon is -- interface seems accepted without question, but I'd bet they've lost most of their user base. They certainly lost me... and Linus Torvalds :) What will those developers be developing for next? Windows free software? OS X software? Who knows, we might very well lose some.
Man, it was getting late! You know how dark you envision reality when it's late...
Of course, the boys will keep on working for Open Source! They'll work for The Machine. Google, ChromeOS, Android! Making a fortune with popular apps. Waiting to join The Organization.
And that's the nicest future Linux could dream of, you know, being incarnated in The Company That Does No Evil.
When other companies wake up in the morning their employees ask themselves: "What evil are we going to do today?" No so at Google's. They only follow the plan.
And the plan is having everybody on the plan-et with nice little next to no CPU cheap computers connecting to The Machine. Wonderful plan.
This is going to work. Whereas Linux has to fight to be installed on maybe .01% of the hardware, manufacturers flock to get Android.
I can almost hear new employees being greeted with a song:
Welcome my son, welcome to The Machine. Where have you been? It's alright we know where you've been. You've been in the pipeline, filling in time
Bartender! Gimme a hit of the same acid this guys havin!!!
Marcel Rieux wrote:
Here's what Knode looked like when I opened it today:
What's this:
Loca... O... Sent Dr...
Moving the vertical bar doesn't lengthen the names and I saw no option in the menus for this. Anyway, it doesn't make sense. Why do "Loca" and "Sent" have 4 letters whereas "O" has only one and "Dr" -- for drafts, I suppose -- just 2? Even if there was an option in a menu, I'm sure it couldn't create such a mess.
Could it be that you're not moving the correct "vertical bar"?
I don't use knode, but I brought it up as a curiosity. Looks somewhat like you describe above. However, there is a very light line between "Name" and "Unread". I positioned my mouse over that and clicked and held and adjusted the column width just fine.
Are you saying that didn't work for you? Or, are you trying to adjust using the wrong "bar"?
On Sat, 2010-03-06 at 12:31 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:
Marcel Rieux wrote:
Here's what Knode looked like when I opened it today:
What's this:
Loca... O... Sent Dr...
Moving the vertical bar doesn't lengthen the names and I saw no option in the menus for this. Anyway, it doesn't make sense. Why do "Loca" and "Sent" have 4 letters whereas "O" has only one and "Dr" -- for drafts, I suppose -- just 2? Even if there was an option in a menu, I'm sure it couldn't create such a mess.
Could it be that you're not moving the correct "vertical bar"?
I don't use knode, but I brought it up as a curiosity. Looks somewhat like you describe above. However, there is a very light line between "Name" and "Unread". I positioned my mouse over that and clicked and held and adjusted the column width just fine.
Are you saying that didn't work for you? Or, are you trying to adjust using the wrong "bar"?
---- as is typical of all the 'kde' things (kmail, akregator, etc.), the left panel does indeed use a vertical column divider that's hard to locate but if you pass the mouse slowly, you will see <||> which indicates that click & hold will adjust the column width. Also, the O... and Sent and Dr... simply indicate what will actually fit in the column where the ellipses is used to indicate more. If you just widen the window, the column will self adjust anyway.
This isn't rocket science and it's clear that the KDE programs actually anticipate that the user can figure this out by his/her self. Perhaps the KDE suite doesn't design their UI to the lowest common denominator that is seemingly incapable of deducing how to use their standard panels.
Craig
On Fri, 2010-03-05 at 22:13 -0700, Craig White wrote:
On Sat, 2010-03-06 at 12:31 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:
Marcel Rieux wrote:
Here's what Knode looked like when I opened it today:
What's this:
Loca... O... Sent Dr...
Moving the vertical bar doesn't lengthen the names and I saw no option in the menus for this. Anyway, it doesn't make sense. Why do "Loca" and "Sent" have 4 letters whereas "O" has only one and "Dr" -- for drafts, I suppose -- just 2? Even if there was an option in a menu, I'm sure it couldn't create such a mess.
Could it be that you're not moving the correct "vertical bar"?
I don't use knode, but I brought it up as a curiosity. Looks somewhat like you describe above. However, there is a very light line between "Name" and "Unread". I positioned my mouse over that and clicked and held and adjusted the column width just fine.
Are you saying that didn't work for you? Or, are you trying to adjust using the wrong "bar"?
as is typical of all the 'kde' things (kmail, akregator, etc.), the left panel does indeed use a vertical column divider that's hard to locate but if you pass the mouse slowly, you will see <||> which indicates that click & hold will adjust the column width. Also, the O... and Sent and Dr... simply indicate what will actually fit in the column where the ellipses is used to indicate more. If you just widen the window, the column will self adjust anyway.
This isn't rocket science and it's clear that the KDE programs actually anticipate that the user can figure this out by his/her self. Perhaps the KDE suite doesn't design their UI to the lowest common denominator that is seemingly incapable of deducing how to use their standard panels.
Hi, Craig, While those of us who use lots of applications may be familiar with the general concepts and will prowl a bit to get the right combination, those who use computers only for a task just what to know how to do the things they need to do.
This is no way unfair.
Do you know that the car has a differential or what that does? The car would not work without it, but it is not part of the knowledge you need to drive the car. But you do need to realize that the wheels rotate one way on one side and the opposite on the other and that they run at slightly different speeds, if you are going to race. That small bit of knowledge along with other similar bits would make you the exception on the course and give you an advantage. It is the same with computers.
To say someone is incapable is a self aggrandizing statement, and implies that you are better than the gentle person in question. Maybe you are, but probably only in some areas. ditto for me. I excel in some areas and not so good in others. But that is human.
The point is, though, that for the computer to be useful, it must meet the needs of the users, not the developers. It is a vital distinction. A good engineer listens to this kind of feedback and tries to come up with a solution.
A foolish manager will denigrate this kind of input, and loose credibility with both staff and customers, as well as doom his product, whatever it might be, to obscurity. I've worked for or with some of those from time to time, and it is an exercise in design and engineering futility. So be open to the input, try to think how to help improve the situation, and make our beloved linux more powerful and more useful.
And to be honest, good documentation is a major weakness in Linux on all fronts, from the OS itself, to the utilities. There are not enough books and not enough well written on-line tutorials to really help the novice, and those that do exist don't seem to ever be updated (except for the Wiki's).
This is all just my honest opinion based upon my personal experience.
Regards, Les H
Les wrote:
Do you know that the car has a differential or what that does? The car would not work without it, but it is not part of the knowledge you need to drive the car. But you do need to realize that the wheels rotate one way on one side and the opposite on the other and that they run at slightly different speeds, if you are going to race. That small bit of knowledge along with other similar bits would make you the exception on the course and give you an advantage. It is the same with computers.
I hate to mention this...but I wouldn't want to have you as my mechanic. :-)
The wheels of a car *do not* rotate one way on one side and the opposite on the other. You have simply changed your frame of reference. Roll a bicycle forward. Standing on one side of the bike, the wheels are rotating clockwise. Stand on the other, they are rotating counterclockwise.
A car would work without a differential in much the same way a wagon or cart would. However, when cornering the tires would need to rotate at different speeds. This would tend to cause slipping on one side and dragging on the other and lead to control problems as well as damage to the tires.
On 03/06/2010 06:45 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
A car would work without a differential in much the same way a wagon or cart would. However, when cornering the tires would need to rotate at different speeds. This would tend to cause slipping on one side and dragging on the other and lead to control problems as well as damage to the tires.
A better fix would be to only drive one wheel. Having a way to lock in the second wheel would be useful, but not necessary. My snow blower is set up that way - a live axle, and only one wheel driving, unless you manually engage the lock on the second wheel so they both drive.
Mikkel
On Sunday 07 March 2010 01:08:47 am Mikkel wrote:
On 03/06/2010 06:45 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
A car would work without a differential in much the same way a wagon or cart would. However, when cornering the tires would need to rotate at different speeds. This would tend to cause slipping on one side and dragging on the other and lead to control problems as well as damage to the tires.
A better fix would be to only drive one wheel. Having a way to lock in the second wheel would be useful, but not necessary. My snow blower is set up that way - a live axle, and only one wheel driving, unless you manually engage the lock on the second wheel so they both drive.
That might be convenient for a snow blower, but not for a regular car. Having torque only on one wheel means that only one wheel is pushing the car forward. This would lead to control problems and damage to the tires while driving straight, as opposed to corners. In addition, it would make the whole car quite unstable at high speeds and during braking, since the car's center of gravity is not inline with the friction force between the tire and the ground (ie. nonzero torque in the horizontal plane). This means that back of the car would tend to move sideways compared to the front, while driving straight.
I wouldn't want to drive such a car on a highway. Even more importantly, I wouldn't want *others* to drive such cars on the same highway as me. :-)
Not to mention things like accelerating/braking from/into a corner, driving on slippery surfaces and such stuff.
Finally, an eventual locking mechanism would be quite complicated to construct and implement. You would want to keep the lock on all the time except when cornering. And while cornering, the car would behave differently in left corners compared to right corners.
You can get a feeling of how such a car would behave if you appreciably deflate one of the tires on a regular car. (Disclaimer: I am *not* advising you to try that!!!)
A differential is a *way* more simple and elegant solution, which completely avoids all these problems. ;-)
Best, :-) Marko
On Sunday 07 March 2010 01:58:54 am Marko Vojinovic wrote:
On Sunday 07 March 2010 01:08:47 am Mikkel wrote:
On 03/06/2010 06:45 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
A car would work without a differential in much the same way a wagon or cart would. However, when cornering the tires would need to rotate at different speeds. This would tend to cause slipping on one side and dragging on the other and lead to control problems as well as damage to the tires.
A better fix would be to only drive one wheel. Having a way to lock in the second wheel would be useful, but not necessary. My snow blower is set up that way - a live axle, and only one wheel driving, unless you manually engage the lock on the second wheel so they both drive.
That might be convenient for a snow blower, but not for a regular car. Having torque only on one wheel means that only one wheel is pushing the car forward. This would lead to control problems and damage to the tires while driving straight, as opposed to corners. In addition, it would make the whole car quite unstable at high speeds and during braking, since the car's center of gravity is not inline with the friction force between the tire and the ground (ie. nonzero torque in the horizontal plane). This means that back of the car would tend to move sideways compared to the front, while driving straight.
I wouldn't want to drive such a car on a highway. Even more importantly, I wouldn't want *others* to drive such cars on the same highway as me. :-)
Not to mention things like accelerating/braking from/into a corner, driving on slippery surfaces and such stuff.
Finally, an eventual locking mechanism would be quite complicated to construct and implement. You would want to keep the lock on all the time except when cornering. And while cornering, the car would behave differently in left corners compared to right corners.
You can get a feeling of how such a car would behave if you appreciably deflate one of the tires on a regular car. (Disclaimer: I am *not* advising you to try that!!!)
A differential is a *way* more simple and elegant solution, which completely avoids all these problems. ;-)
Best, :-) Marko
P.S. I'm a big fan of Formula 1, in case you didn't notice... :-D
On Sat, 2010-03-06 at 19:08 -0600, Mikkel wrote:
On 03/06/2010 06:45 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
A car would work without a differential in much the same way a wagon or cart would. However, when cornering the tires would need to rotate at different speeds. This would tend to cause slipping on one side and dragging on the other and lead to control problems as well as damage to the tires.
A better fix would be to only drive one wheel. Having a way to lock in the second wheel would be useful, but not necessary. My snow blower is set up that way - a live axle, and only one wheel driving, unless you manually engage the lock on the second wheel so they both drive.
---- the whole concept that one can bring relevance to Marcel's ranting by using a metaphor is comical by itself when in reality, Marcel couldn't hit the broad side of a barn from 3 feet.
Gnome is the default DM for what appears to be a reason - limited configuration options for the users and KDE requires extra effort to install and operate and generally assumes some amount of knowledge of a computer UI. Most of these segmented panels mimic that used in Microsoft Outlook where you have the containers on the left, the list of items on the top right and a 'preview' of the individually selected item on the bottom right. I can appreciate that some users have little intuition on how to use this right away but I can also appreciate that generally, KDE projects don't feel the need to dumb down their interface for everyone just because some lack the experience or intuition on using it.
as for the tires, anyone who say 'My Cousin Vinny' would know that it was the 63 Pontiac Tempest...
Mona Lisa Vito: The car that made these two, equal-length tire marks had positraction. You can't make those marks without posi-traction, which was not available on the '64 Buick Skylark! Vinny Gambini: And why not? What is posi-traction? Mona Lisa Vito: It's a limited slip differential which distributes power equally to both the right and left tires. The '64 Skylark had a regular differential, which, anyone who's been stuck in the mud in Alabama knows, you step on the gas, one tire spins, the other tire does nothing. [the jury members nod, with murmurs of "yes," "that's right," etc] Vinny Gambini: Is that it? Mona Lisa Vito: No, there's more! You see? When the left tire mark goes up on the curb and the right tire mark stays flat and even? Well, the '64 Skylark had a solid rear axle, so when the left tire would go up on the curb, the right tire would tilt out and ride along its edge. But that didn't happen here. The tire mark stayed flat and even. This car had an independent rear suspension. Now, in the '60's, there were only two other cars made in America that had posi-traction, and independent rear suspension, and enough power to make these marks. One was the Corvette, which could never be confused with the Buick Skylark. The other had the same body length, height, width, weight, wheel base, and wheel track as the '64 Skylark, and that was the 1963 Pontiac Tempest.
Craig
Craig White wrote:
On Sat, 2010-03-06 at 19:08 -0600, Mikkel wrote:
On 03/06/2010 06:45 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
A car would work without a differential in much the same way a wagon or cart would. However, when cornering the tires would need to rotate at different speeds. This would tend to cause slipping on one side and dragging on the other and lead to control problems as well as damage to the tires.
A better fix would be to only drive one wheel. Having a way to lock in the second wheel would be useful, but not necessary. My snow blower is set up that way - a live axle, and only one wheel driving, unless you manually engage the lock on the second wheel so they both drive.
the whole concept that one can bring relevance to Marcel's ranting by using a metaphor is comical by itself when in reality, Marcel couldn't hit the broad side of a barn from 3 feet.
I don't know about the others....but I'm not speaking in metaphors. I'm talking about cars. Seemed like it would be more productive to change the subject. (OK, OK, I've belatedly added the OT.) :-)
On Saturday 06 March 2010, Ed Greshko wrote:
Les wrote:
Do you know that the car has a differential or what that does? The car would not work without it, but it is not part of the knowledge you need to drive the car. But you do need to realize that the wheels rotate one way on one side and the opposite on the other and that they run at slightly different speeds, if you are going to race. That small bit of knowledge along with other similar bits would make you the exception on the course and give you an advantage. It is the same with computers.
I hate to mention this...but I wouldn't want to have you as my mechanic. :-)
The wheels of a car *do not* rotate one way on one side and the opposite on the other. You have simply changed your frame of reference. Roll a bicycle forward. Standing on one side of the bike, the wheels are rotating clockwise. Stand on the other, they are rotating counterclockwise.
A car would work without a differential in much the same way a wagon or cart would. However, when cornering the tires would need to rotate at different speeds. This would tend to cause slipping on one side and dragging on the other and lead to control problems as well as damage to the tires.
Differentials are optional in real racing. And get less and less important to the vehicles handling as the speeds increase and the corners tighten. In oval dirt track racing, a welded diff is usually good for at least a 3 second quicker lap.
Gene Heskett wrote:
On Saturday 06 March 2010, Ed Greshko wrote:
Les wrote:
Do you know that the car has a differential or what that does? The car would not work without it, but it is not part of the knowledge you need to drive the car. But you do need to realize that the wheels rotate one way on one side and the opposite on the other and that they run at slightly different speeds, if you are going to race. That small bit of knowledge along with other similar bits would make you the exception on the course and give you an advantage. It is the same with computers.
I hate to mention this...but I wouldn't want to have you as my mechanic. :-)
The wheels of a car *do not* rotate one way on one side and the opposite on the other. You have simply changed your frame of reference. Roll a bicycle forward. Standing on one side of the bike, the wheels are rotating clockwise. Stand on the other, they are rotating counterclockwise.
A car would work without a differential in much the same way a wagon or cart would. However, when cornering the tires would need to rotate at different speeds. This would tend to cause slipping on one side and dragging on the other and lead to control problems as well as damage to the tires.
Differentials are optional in real racing. And get less and less important to the vehicles handling as the speeds increase and the corners tighten. In oval dirt track racing, a welded diff is usually good for at least a 3 second quicker lap.
You'd better tell that to the folks at McLaren or the folks at Xilinx
http://www.iloveindia.com/cars/sports-cars/mclaren-f1.html has them using a LSD and I don't think it is "acid".
and http://me.queensu.ca/courses/MECH452/readings/documents/reference13.pdf
seems even more complex....
On Saturday 06 March 2010, Ed Greshko wrote:
Gene Heskett wrote:
On Saturday 06 March 2010, Ed Greshko wrote:
Les wrote:
Do you know that the car has a differential or what that does? The car would not work without it, but it is not part of the knowledge you need to drive the car. But you do need to realize that the wheels rotate one way on one side and the opposite on the other and that they run at slightly different speeds, if you are going to race. That small bit of knowledge along with other similar bits would make you the exception on the course and give you an advantage. It is the same with computers.
I hate to mention this...but I wouldn't want to have you as my mechanic. :-)
The wheels of a car *do not* rotate one way on one side and the opposite on the other. You have simply changed your frame of reference. Roll a bicycle forward. Standing on one side of the bike, the wheels are rotating clockwise. Stand on the other, they are rotating counterclockwise.
A car would work without a differential in much the same way a wagon or cart would. However, when cornering the tires would need to rotate at different speeds. This would tend to cause slipping on one side and dragging on the other and lead to control problems as well as damage to the tires.
Differentials are optional in real racing. And get less and less important to the vehicles handling as the speeds increase and the corners tighten. In oval dirt track racing, a welded diff is usually good for at least a 3 second quicker lap.
You'd better tell that to the folks at McLaren or the folks at Xilinx
http://www.iloveindia.com/cars/sports-cars/mclaren-f1.html has them using a LSD and I don't think it is "acid".
Limited slip is a whole new ball game, Craig, no dispute at all, and not something we could engineer into competition go-karts in 1960 at any price, we simply could not afford the weight. So we did the next best thing, a solid axle turning in bearings mounted to the frame. 12" diameter, 6 inch wide slicks on the rear gave us pretty decent traction even on dirt as long as it was wet down & packed. Some of those karts had 40 horsepower on tap when the loud pedal went down. My last one might have been able to find 20 hp running on booze. A 14" deflector head two stroke with rotary intake & all roller bearings, it actually belonged on a Navy boat such as the river rats for a bilge pump. Had to spin it about 2k to get it started, and from 3k to 7k, get out of its way, and stay out of its way. But it was also heavy, so while I had fun, and really learned how to drive, it didn't bring home the trophies no matter how far I tipped the can of dynamite. Even at my age, I still use some of the tricks. Not all of course, the reflexes that made it work so well 50 years ago, just aren't there anymore.
I would like to be a judge in traffic court though, I would sentence the sober ones to a summer of campaigning a go kart. The worst they can do is wear out a hard hat & get some road rash, but they would learn how to actually drive, in a vehicle small enough that you can make a mistake without its costing 10 grand in the body shop. That experience at finding out what a vehicle will do at the limits of traction and beyond, will save them 100,000 USD in body shop bills later in life. Note I didn't specify which body they would be keeping out of the shop. I tend to refer to hospitals as body shops too.
BTW, those GP & F1 drivers we all admire? Many started out in go karts. Unforch, they have emasculated the whole genre now with those lawn mower 4 stroke engines. The ponies aren't there, although some of the high priced OHC versions have some potential if you could figure out how to keep then all in the same box at the same time. Kawasaki hasn't figured that out yet, my lawn mower has destroyed itself twice in 5 years just doing the grass on this smallish lot. Full of oil both times. I had a Honda 350F once, it could turn 11 grand, and when I threw my leg off it the last time and filled out the title for the next guy was when I realized I had put 33k miles on it in 14 months, it had 57k on it then. If the new owner kept it full of oil, I expect it was still going as strong as ever at 100k miles. That thing was a Timex for me.
and http://me.queensu.ca/courses/MECH452/readings/documents/reference13.pdf
seems even more complex....
Those folks have long since learned how to meet the weigh limits, and now have the privilege of adding a few pounds for such driver aids. When was the last time the FIA re-arranged the F1 rules so we had some real experimentation? Now they all look alike, Honda makes all the engines and rents them to the racers. The devil can be in the details of course, but those details can't give a given team even a 5% advantage, its often the .1% stuff that wins the race now.
On Sun, 2010-03-07 at 08:45 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:
Les wrote:
Do you know that the car has a differential or what that does? The car would not work without it, but it is not part of the knowledge you need to drive the car. But you do need to realize that the wheels rotate one way on one side and the opposite on the other and that they run at slightly different speeds, if you are going to race. That small bit of knowledge along with other similar bits would make you the exception on the course and give you an advantage. It is the same with computers.
I hate to mention this...but I wouldn't want to have you as my mechanic. :-)
The wheels of a car *do not* rotate one way on one side and the opposite on the other. You have simply changed your frame of reference. Roll a bicycle forward. Standing on one side of the bike, the wheels are rotating clockwise. Stand on the other, they are rotating counterclockwise.
A car would work without a differential in much the same way a wagon or cart would. However, when cornering the tires would need to rotate at different speeds. This would tend to cause slipping on one side and dragging on the other and lead to control problems as well as damage to the tires.
You are both right and missing the point. If you take the wheel off one side of a car and put it on the other, its direction of rotation changes, because it is mounted to a rim that will only go on with same side against the hub. Thus I can say that the wheels do indeed rotate one way on one side and the opposite on the other. You said it yourself, clockwise on one side and counter clockwise on the other. It is an engineering function. And it is not just cornering where the wheels rotate at different speeds, but all the time. Tires wear, so even if they started out measured to microscopic tolerance, over time they would be different diameters. This means the wheels rotate at different speeds even going down a straight road. Cart wheels actually rotated independently of the axel for this very reason. Look at the old wagons, or even roman chariots, the axel is a bar, but each wheel rotates on a bearing on that axel. Some basic vehicles use a solid axel and just put up with the stress on the axel and wear of the wheels, but most alleviate it in some way.
And I would not want to be your mechanic.
Regards, Les H
Les wrote:
On Sun, 2010-03-07 at 08:45 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:
Les wrote:
Do you know that the car has a differential or what that does? The car would not work without it, but it is not part of the knowledge you need to drive the car. But you do need to realize that the wheels rotate one way on one side and the opposite on the other and that they run at slightly different speeds, if you are going to race. That small bit of knowledge along with other similar bits would make you the exception on the course and give you an advantage. It is the same with computers.
I hate to mention this...but I wouldn't want to have you as my mechanic. :-)
The wheels of a car *do not* rotate one way on one side and the opposite on the other. You have simply changed your frame of reference. Roll a bicycle forward. Standing on one side of the bike, the wheels are rotating clockwise. Stand on the other, they are rotating counterclockwise.
A car would work without a differential in much the same way a wagon or cart would. However, when cornering the tires would need to rotate at different speeds. This would tend to cause slipping on one side and dragging on the other and lead to control problems as well as damage to the tires.
You are both right and missing the point. If you take the wheel off one side of a car and put it on the other, its direction of rotation changes, because it is mounted to a rim that will only go on with same side against the hub. Thus I can say that the wheels do indeed rotate one way on one side and the opposite on the other. You said it yourself, clockwise on one side and counter clockwise on the other. It is an engineering function. And it is not just cornering where the wheels rotate at different speeds, but all the time. Tires wear, so even if they started out measured to microscopic tolerance, over time they would be different diameters. This means the wheels rotate at different speeds even going down a straight road. Cart wheels actually rotated independently of the axel for this very reason. Look at the old wagons, or even roman chariots, the axel is a bar, but each wheel rotates on a bearing on that axel. Some basic vehicles use a solid axel and just put up with the stress on the axel and wear of the wheels, but most alleviate it in some way.
And I would not want to be your mechanic.
Either you forgot to put in the smiley face at the end or you really are a grumpy old man....or maybe that is Gene. :-)
Of course I am correct...and of course you are. It is all a matter of frame of reference, which you didn't establish. Why the heck do you think I put in the part about clockwise and counterclockwise? In an earlier message I wrote that I didn't have a sight problem...but missed the *obvious* from time to time. Looks as if I'm not the only one. :-) :-) :-)
From time to time this list gets less and less fun as people seem to take themselves too seriously.
And to think my objective was only steer away from a ridiculous "conversation" into what I though was a relatively benign one. Nice to see I was proven wrong yet again. :-) :-)
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 6:22 PM, Les hlhowell@pacbell.net wrote:
Hi, Craig, While those of us who use lots of applications may be familiar with the general concepts and will prowl a bit to get the right combination,
And since there is so much energy wasted on different projects, the right combination often ends up being the "best" combination, which is often far from ideal.
Then, tell me, are you an expert in photo and video editing software, in databases, spreadsheets, voice mail, etc.? Wouldn't it be nice if there was a default repository where you could find applications to, at least, get you started conveniently?
those who use computers only for a task just what to know how to do the things they need to do.
This is no way unfair.
Not caring about those people is unfair to Linux users. You end up with 18 months old motherboards whose only BIOS option is entering the password. That's if you're lucky. If the newbie uses one of those "fun little distro" as LinuxMint or Ubuntu, he might end up to a blank screen and, then, it will be "Linux doesn't work!"
It's a vicious circle. Less people use Linux because it doesn't work and Linux doesn't work because less people use it.
Userfriendlyness is in no way a combat between geeks and newbies. In all applications, you can offer a second level of configuration for geeks with a warning to newbies.
The point is, though, that for the computer to be useful, it must meet the needs of the users, not the developers. It is a vital distinction. A good engineer listens to this kind of feedback and tries to come up with a solution.
A foolish manager will denigrate this kind of input, and loose credibility with both staff and customers, as well as doom his product, whatever it might be, to obscurity. I've worked for or with some of those from time to time, and it is an exercise in design and engineering futility.
Shit, I almost cry reading this common sense. Maybe it would be instructive to know you better. Are you a geek or a "suit"? Who did you work for? Can you tell us more about real case scenarios?
And to be honest, good documentation is a major weakness in Linux on all fronts, from the OS itself, to the utilities. There are not enough books and not enough well written on-line tutorials to really help the novice, and those that do exist don't seem to ever be updated (except for the Wiki's).
Sometimes, the right information is there but amongst so much (hopefully) well intentioned, but badly written information that you have a hard time getting to it. Then, somebody who knows the answer provides the right keywords and pretends that "Google is your friend". Of course, the eternal RTFM motto, with nothing understandable to newcomers, also drives newbies mad.
See how Daniel J. Barrett explains basic commands in the "Linux Pocket Guide". I believe all the man pages could be rewritten in the same style and the man pages would be made clearer for everybody. Geeks usually disguise their basic inability to write in Shakespeare's language behind technical mumbo-jumbo whose format, they believe, will necessarily make things clearer. Of course, just the opposite happens.
This is all just my honest opinion based upon my personal experience.
It's all the way mine too!
On Sat, 2010-03-06 at 15:22 -0800, Les wrote:
On Fri, 2010-03-05 at 22:13 -0700, Craig White wrote:
On Sat, 2010-03-06 at 12:31 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:
Marcel Rieux wrote:
Here's what Knode looked like when I opened it today:
What's this:
Loca... O... Sent Dr...
Moving the vertical bar doesn't lengthen the names and I saw no option in the menus for this. Anyway, it doesn't make sense. Why do "Loca" and "Sent" have 4 letters whereas "O" has only one and "Dr" -- for drafts, I suppose -- just 2? Even if there was an option in a menu, I'm sure it couldn't create such a mess.
Could it be that you're not moving the correct "vertical bar"?
I don't use knode, but I brought it up as a curiosity. Looks somewhat like you describe above. However, there is a very light line between "Name" and "Unread". I positioned my mouse over that and clicked and held and adjusted the column width just fine.
Are you saying that didn't work for you? Or, are you trying to adjust using the wrong "bar"?
as is typical of all the 'kde' things (kmail, akregator, etc.), the left panel does indeed use a vertical column divider that's hard to locate but if you pass the mouse slowly, you will see <||> which indicates that click & hold will adjust the column width. Also, the O... and Sent and Dr... simply indicate what will actually fit in the column where the ellipses is used to indicate more. If you just widen the window, the column will self adjust anyway.
This isn't rocket science and it's clear that the KDE programs actually anticipate that the user can figure this out by his/her self. Perhaps the KDE suite doesn't design their UI to the lowest common denominator that is seemingly incapable of deducing how to use their standard panels.
Hi, Craig, While those of us who use lots of applications may be familiar with the general concepts and will prowl a bit to get the right combination, those who use computers only for a task just what to know how to do the things they need to do.
This is no way unfair.
Do you know that the car has a differential or what that does? The car would not work without it, but it is not part of the knowledge you need to drive the car. But you do need to realize that the wheels rotate one way on one side and the opposite on the other and that they run at slightly different speeds, if you are going to race. That small bit of knowledge along with other similar bits would make you the exception on the course and give you an advantage. It is the same with computers.
---- as I noted elsewhere in the thread, there's something very comical to using an irrelevant metaphor while trying to make an irrelevant post more relevant. ----
To say someone is incapable is a self aggrandizing statement, and implies that you are better than the gentle person in question. Maybe you are, but probably only in some areas. ditto for me. I excel in some areas and not so good in others. But that is human.
The point is, though, that for the computer to be useful, it must meet the needs of the users, not the developers. It is a vital distinction. A good engineer listens to this kind of feedback and tries to come up with a solution.
A foolish manager will denigrate this kind of input, and loose credibility with both staff and customers, as well as doom his product, whatever it might be, to obscurity. I've worked for or with some of those from time to time, and it is an exercise in design and engineering futility. So be open to the input, try to think how to help improve the situation, and make our beloved linux more powerful and more useful.
---- thank you for completely missing my point. In your rush to come up with a response, you failed to actually think through the larger picture.
There are many different software choices on Linux and it would be folly to suggest (as you are indeed suggesting) that all of the choices be 'dumbed' down to the lowest common denominator of users. It is perfectly valid that some software has a barrier to entry, that it requires some knowledge and intuitiveness by the user. There are large numbers of users who cannot actually use Adobe Illustrator for example... are you suggesting that because large numbers of computer users cannot actually do anything with it that it is 'doomed'? I am using this as just a single example of software that certainly meets the needs of the majority of its users but certainly isn't suitable for a great many computer users.
You completely failed to differentiate that there are computer users and there are specific software items that are not intended for every computer user.
In my case, I think I sort of appreciate KDE and the fact that they are trying to use some sophisticated UI elements and I'm not the least bit bothered by the fact that there are some who cannot intuit how to use their software. Last time I checked, KDE and application suites were optional installs.
The fact that the OP cannot comprehend the UI of a particular program does not necessarily represent a problem with Linux at all. The only thing it certainly represents is a barrier to entry (usage). The only proven method of changing open source software is bug reporting and everything else is irrelevant. If the OP or you actually feel that the particular software (in this case Knode) has a problem, then why hasn't someone filed a bug report? ----
And to be honest, good documentation is a major weakness in Linux on all fronts, from the OS itself, to the utilities. There are not enough books and not enough well written on-line tutorials to really help the novice, and those that do exist don't seem to ever be updated (except for the Wiki's).
This is all just my honest opinion based upon my personal experience.
---- You should have pointed out to the OP that if he feels that the documentation on things like UI are inadequate, he can volunteer to help improve the documentation because this is after all a participatory work (Open source software).
I will simply say this... there are people who will curse the darkness and people who will light candles. I think we know where the OP fits in that equation.
Craig
On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 12:27 AM, Craig White craigwhite@azapple.com wrote:
There are many different software choices on Linux and it would be folly to suggest (as you are indeed suggesting) that all of the choices be 'dumbed' down to the lowest common denominator of users.
Absolutely. As I was telling Marko, wouldn't it be awful to ask geeks to uncheck an option in Nautilus? Also, what a hinderance it would be for developers to have one (1) clipboard that actually works correctly. And so on.
I can't tell you how much I appreciate your quick mind and brilliant reasoning. So, you'll understand I'll refrain from commenting the rest of this port. We couldn't agree more!
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 11:31 PM, Ed Greshko Ed.Greshko@greshko.com wrote:
Marcel Rieux wrote:
Here's what Knode looked like when I opened it today:
What's this:
Loca... O... Sent Dr...
Moving the vertical bar doesn't lengthen the names and I saw no option in the menus for this. Anyway, it doesn't make sense. Why do "Loca" and "Sent" have 4 letters whereas "O" has only one and "Dr" -- for drafts, I suppose -- just 2? Even if there was an option in a menu, I'm sure it couldn't create such a mess.
Could it be that you're not moving the correct "vertical bar"?
I don't use knode, but I brought it up as a curiosity. Looks somewhat like you describe above. However, there is a very light line between "Name" and "Unread". I positioned my mouse over that and clicked and held and adjusted the column width just fine.
You are absolutely right! I was trying to move the same vertical bar as in Thunderbird. But those are the default folder names. Why the hell isn't the right column size defined by default? Why isn't the very light line well defined as are, for instance, those that define the fields in the Subject/From pane of Thunderbird?
The main reason I don't give KDE yet another try in its present state of development is they made all graphics next to unreadable. For instance, they make icons that look like miniature paintings and encompassing the full gray scale. When they appear on a dark panel, the dark ones disappear. When they appear on a light panel, the light ones disappear.
I tried to get the interface fixed in the past but never came to a solution that I found satisfactory. So, now, I tell myself the day I open KDE and I see an interface I can read, I'm going to give it another try.
I suppose it mustn't be a joy for you either, given your sight problems.
Why the hell is there always somebody ruining the show?
-------------------------------------
Here are a few other bugs I noted since I wrote this message:
There is a bug report here posted on 2007-03-25:
If a file or a folder is selected in Nautilus and you accidently press Delete button, they are moved to the Trash.
NO warning is issued (even though in Nautilus Preferences "Ask before emptying the Trash or deleting files" is selected )
Very annoying and dangerous bug to a common user - I deleted very important data without realising then cleaned the Trash, so lost that information.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/95853
That was 2 years ago and it's a very serious bug. Is it fixed on your system? It's not on mine.
----------
I had permission problems with the files on my back-up and I had to reinstall Thunderbird. I noticed that if you check the option "Check for new messages at start-up", the group list doesn't download.
---------
Why does Nautilus use CTRL + H to show/hide hidden files while Dolphin uses ALT + "." . Isn't there a standard that both could use? Is it really necessary to have competition between Linux Desktop environments?
----------
In Nautilus, when I'm in my /home directory, CTRL + H show hidden files but, when I'm in /media (my back-up) CTRL + H folds all folders and files in the upper level directory.
------------
In Nautilus, if I click a directory, sub-directories show, I click a sub-dir, other sub-dirs show. I click the back arrow, *sometimes* all sub-dirs fold, mainly when arriving at the ~ level?
------------
Etc., etc.
I could file 10 bug reports a day. It this the kind of crap they're dealing with at the NYSE? Of course not! Linux is running the infrastructure for transactions. For the desktop, everybody uses Windows.
Can you imagine the kind of tantrum Steve Jobs would go in if he was presented this kind of software? Man! Blood would be flying all over the place!
Is Linux on the Desktop more than a mirage?
P.s.: No time to re-read. I hope it makes sense :)
Marcel Rieux wrote:
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 11:31 PM, Ed Greshko Ed.Greshko@greshko.com wrote:
Could it be that you're not moving the correct "vertical bar"?
I don't use knode, but I brought it up as a curiosity. Looks somewhat like you describe above. However, there is a very light line between "Name" and "Unread". I positioned my mouse over that and clicked and held and adjusted the column width just fine.
You are absolutely right! I was trying to move the same vertical bar as in Thunderbird. But those are the default folder names. Why the hell isn't the right column size defined by default? Why isn't the very light line well defined as are, for instance, those that define the fields in the Subject/From pane of Thunderbird?
The column adjustment method is pretty much standard in all applications. I've seen numerous applications opened for the very first time where column widths weren't "optimal". It doesn't matter if they are Qt, gtk, Java, MS Windows. It doesn't bother me, since I adjust them to my liking. However, once adjusted, they should not change. I've not encountered any problems in this area.
I suppose it mustn't be a joy for you either, given your sight problems.
I don't have any particular sight problems....other than missing the obvious from time to time.
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 1:51 AM, Ed Greshko Ed.Greshko@greshko.com wrote:
Marcel Rieux wrote:
I suppose it mustn't be a joy for you either, given your sight problems.
I don't have any particular sight problems....other than missing the obvious from time to time.
I thought you said that in a discussion about using two screens. Sorry.
On Fri, 2010-03-05 at 21:21 -0500, Marcel Rieux wrote:
Maybe you'll remember I had problems
I'm, now, *certain* that you're seriously nuts. You have unrealistic expectations of the world, and are pointlessly annoying the people around you trying to make everyone else fit into your odd view.
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 2:23 AM, Tim ignored_mailbox@yahoo.com.au wrote:
On Fri, 2010-03-05 at 21:21 -0500, Marcel Rieux wrote:
Maybe you'll remember I had problems
I'm, now, *certain* that you're seriously nuts. You have unrealistic expectations of the world
Yes, I must agree. Having to wait less than 2 years to get a clipboard that really works or to be asked if you really want to delete files is completly unrealistic.
We'll soon be on the sideline watching how Google copes with this reality.
On Sat, 2010-03-06 at 16:01 -0500, Marcel Rieux wrote:
Yes, I must agree. Having to wait less than 2 years to get a clipboard that really works or to be asked if you really want to delete files is [completely] unrealistic.
With regards to the file-deletion prompt, the option has been available and enabled by default for at least the past two Fedora releases (that I can recall). In the "Behavior" tab of the preferences, it's the "Ask before emptying the Trash or deleting files" option.
From my experience with it, when you "delete" a file in Nautilus it is just moved to the Trash (hence, no prompt since it can easily be recovered). It is when you move to permanently delete a file (either by removing it from the Trash or, if you have the option enabled, deleting it and bypassing the Trash entirely) that you are prompted.
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 4:37 PM, Peter Gordon peter@thecodergeek.com wrote:
On Sat, 2010-03-06 at 16:01 -0500, Marcel Rieux wrote:
Yes, I must agree. Having to wait less than 2 years to get a clipboard that really works or to be asked if you really want to delete files is [completely] unrealistic.
With regards to the file-deletion prompt, the option has been available and enabled by default for at least the past two Fedora releases (that I can recall). In the "Behavior" tab of the preferences, it's the "Ask before emptying the Trash or deleting files" option.
The bug title report reads:
"Add an option to get a confirmation dialog before deleting files in Nautilus "
and this is certainly an error. It should be "deleting or trashing files" but, from all that answers below, it's clear that this is what people expect.
From my experience with it, when you "delete" a file in Nautilus it is just moved to the Trash (hence, no prompt since it can easily be recovered). It is when you move to permanently delete a file (either by removing it from the Trash or, if you have the option enabled, deleting it and bypassing the Trash entirely) that you are prompted.
So, you're satisfied with how things work at the present time? Let's see how you can trash your life with the way things work now.
I go into Nautilus. In "Documents", I have a 1.html file and a z.html file. Since I don't really have those files available for testing, I'll have to create them.
First thing I notice is it's impossible to create a file by right clicking if you have more than a screenful of folder/files. Even if you right click "Documents", there's no option to create a file. Now, maybe that's because I have some very peculiar kind of hardware, but I do believe that, if developerS were using their product, one or two should have noticed. I suppose developers created Nautilus for stupid newbies and themselves use a real file browser. So, that's bug #1.
Ok, now I have my files. I click 1.html, it opens in Firefox. Maybe, I have another file I'd like to open in Firefox by the same occasion. So, I scroll down and 1. html, which is already open, disappears from the screen. Finally, no, there's no other file I need to open.
I read 1.html in Firefox and it's really captivating. As I come back to Nautilus, I see there's a file named z.html that I don't need anymore. I select it and trash it.
Well, 1.html was still selected and went to trash by the same occasion.
Now, I'm sure that, when their Trash can has 1000 files in it, geeks like you check carefully each and every one of them before emptying. But you know how ordinary people are, you know, people who have a job, people who don't sleep well, people who are in a rush, all kind of weird people: they take a quick look and empty the trash can.
If 1.html was a financial report to be submitted the following day or 1.odt was a love letter to a disgruntled lover who was beginning to look elsewhere, lifes might be ruined. But Nautilus, the default browser for Fedora, is for newbies so, I suppose you don't care about that?
I have no idea how ChromeOS is now but, do you really believe that Google will be that stupid? For now, I can assure you that, had you given this answer to Steve Jobs, you wouldn't have finished typing the last period, he'd have put you through the meat grinder and put you in a plastic bag by the curb.
Nautilus is such a crap that there's nothing to do with it. For instance, let's say you have a back-up and you want to recuperate a sleuth of files in different directories going to different directories on your system. Since there's no split screen option, how do you do this conveniently? Bug #3.
Did I miss this or is there really no option to reopen folders in the left pane as they were last opened with the state of sub-dirs? (Excuse me, but while you're ranting, I'm doing all the work and I'm getting fed up.) Bug #4.
Mainly since, if I want to move my 1.html to /Photos/Family. I have 1,000 family photos. There's no paste option in the file pane and on the /Photos/Family directory. You have to go to the Edit menu, this time. Bug #5.
Nautilus is a mess, is a mess, is an awful mess. Meat grinder case.
Who, here, has Nautilus as their default browser? Except, Fedora, I mean.
On Saturday 06 March 2010 09:01:55 pm Marcel Rieux wrote:
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 2:23 AM, Tim ignored_mailbox@yahoo.com.au wrote:
On Fri, 2010-03-05 at 21:21 -0500, Marcel Rieux wrote:
Yes, I must agree. Having to wait less than 2 years to get a clipboard that really works or to be asked if you really want to delete files is completly unrealistic.
One of the reasons I prefer Linux over other OSes is precisely that --- the machine does not treat me like an idiot, and does not insult my intelligence by asking stupid "are you sure" questions.
I know, accidents can happen, but if I select several files, click on "delete", go on to empty the trash, even answer one "are you sure" question (and get pissed off by it in the process since I don't usually use Nautilus and don't customize it) --- then, for the love of God --- I WANT THE DAMN FILES DELETED!
Now, if anyone ever "fixes" your bugzilla entry about confirmation before moving to trash, please remind me to file another bugzilla and request that this be reverted to old behavior. I will settle for a config option to have such a confirmation, but it better be off by default.
And I don't even use Nautilus and Gnome in regular situations.
HTH, :-) Marko
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Marko Vojinovic vvmarko@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday 06 March 2010 09:01:55 pm Marcel Rieux wrote:
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 2:23 AM, Tim ignored_mailbox@yahoo.com.au wrote:
On Fri, 2010-03-05 at 21:21 -0500, Marcel Rieux wrote:
Yes, I must agree. Having to wait less than 2 years to get a clipboard that really works or to be asked if you really want to delete files is completly unrealistic.
One of the reasons I prefer Linux over other OSes is precisely that --- the machine does not treat me like an idiot, and does not insult my intelligence by asking stupid "are you sure" questions.
I couldn't agree more! This is great!
I know, accidents can happen, but if I select several files, click on "delete", go on to empty the trash, even answer one "are you sure" question (and get pissed off by it in the process since I don't usually use Nautilus and don't customize it) --- then, for the love of God --- I WANT THE DAMN FILES DELETED!
Yes, getting pissed off it terrible! I totally sympathize with you.
Now, if anyone ever "fixes" your bugzilla entry about confirmation before moving to trash, please remind me to file another bugzilla and request that this be reverted to old behavior.
I certainly will! I sure wouldn't want to see a geek like you having to uncheck an option in Nautilus. Man, there's a limit to making geek's life impossible!
Meanwhile, why don't you try getting to the heart of the matter and join the differential discussion. You know, just to make sure the thread doesn't get flooded in totally irrelevant matters...
Oops, sorry! I see you already did.
Can you imagine a developer having a choice between Google and plain Linux software development? Would the guy want to run around in circles with Google or the Intel/Nokia (MeeGo) consortium? Of course not! That's why Linux will be more and more the default choice of the best developers.
Linux moves forward! And even if it didn't on the desktop, that's not from where empires have been built and, anyways, Google doesn't know how to operate servers. There's not a chance they will become a hinderance. Right?
I like it so much when we agree on common sense matters!
P.s.: Here's another one, unrelated, but in the same tone:
http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/cnews/article.php/3861596/Tech-Comics-Geeks-and-the-iPad.htm
-
Chris -
Craig White -
Ed Greshko -
Gene Heskett -
Howard Howell -
Marcel Rieux -
Marko Vojinovic -
Mikkel -
Peter Gordon -
Tim