On 21/3/18 10:09 am, Rick Stevens wrote:
On 03/20/2018 02:10 PM, Stephen Morris wrote:
> On 21/3/18 12:05 am, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
>> On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 08:29 -0400, fred roller wrote:
>>> On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 7:00 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan
>>> <pocallaghan(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 00:09 +0000, Néstor wrote:
>>>>> You can actually use Google voice in another country as long as you
>>>>> have access to the internet.
>>>>> Sometimes if I am I another and I need to call someone in that
>>>>> country I will go to a place that has WiFi and make the call like
>>>>> if i was in the US
>>>>> and i call that country's phone number.
>>>> [Please don't top-post]
>>>> When I said "only available to users in the US" I meant
>>>> to US users", i.e. users with an address and phone number in the
>>>> Where you are physically when you make the call is irrelevant.
>>>> users mailing list -- users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>>> Apologies for the top posts, gmail insist on top posting reponses and
>>> I forget to adjust.
>> [Maybe also adjust to use plaintext ...]
> Just my 2 cents worth on this, relative to the top posting, different
> countries have different requirements, so you may have to keep reminding
> people that this list has a different convention. I have Thunderbird
> configured to top post, and understanding the conventions of this list I
> work around that, but here in Australia it is considered rude to not Top
> Post, and if you don't Top Post, your mail is immediate grounds for it
> to be moved to the "round filing cabinet" without being read.
I've never heard that _countries_ have rules regarding top- and bottom-
posts. It's typically more what the individual SIG (special interest
group, mail-list, etc.) prefer. On the Fedora lists, we prefer bottom-
posts because they maintain the temporal flow of the thread's content
(comments are placed AFTER the thing they're commenting on). Other lists
may prefer top-posts (although I can't understand why since I don't
want to have to scroll through a comment to see what they're commenting
ABOUT). But, you're in Oz and things are reversed there (hell, even the
toilet water goes backwards). (I'm trying to be funny here! Don't take
offense...I lived in Sydney for a year and loved it.)
No offense taken, I'm used to those sorts of jokes.
I've worked in seven different organizations, they all happened to use
Lotus Notes as their mail system, which also defaults to top posting,
but it was a rule in every organization that mail must be top posted.
Their view was that having to trawl through mails to find responses is a
time waster, therefore people will not be allowed to do it, hence
particularly with high level managers, they applied the convention that
if you did not top post they wouldn't read your mail. If I'm honest it
is time consuming scrolling through mails to find responses. Having said
this though there are occasions where responses have been embedded in
mail, but in those situations there is a top post to say that is what
they have done and their responses are also in a different color. Notes
also has the convention that in replied to mail the mail address header
information is embedded at the top of the contents, which then makes the
original text a group that can be collapsed down to a single header line
that identifies who the particular portion of the mail was from, and the
collapsing of the email trail is done automatically so if responses are
embedded in the mail trying to track them becomes a nightmare.
I'm also on the Ubuntu mailing list, and from what I'm seeing on that
list, they don't seem to care, so users moving from Ubuntu to Fedora,
will potentially continue to use their normal conventions for mails,
forgetting that this list has a different convention to their "norm"
even if they knew in the first place.
Having said all this, I don't have an issue with this list having a
different convention to my norm, but new users to the list may not be
aware of the situation, and humans being human will sometimes forget
when the convention is not what they are used to, so all I'm saying is
that people may have to be continually reminded.
> For years, bottom posts were normal (and I go back to ye olden days of
> DARPAnet and moving mail around via UUCP using bang-paths). Then M$
> stuck their noses into it and saddled the world with Outlook, which
> defaulted to top posting. Internet noobs used it and that's what they
> seem comfortable with.
>>>> FWIW you can give https://www.asterisk.org/
a try and DIY a phone
>>>> server. The VOIP would give you the mobile option because I used it
>>>> an age ago (headset and my laptop were my "phone" with any
>>>> connection). Any calls to numbers would bill from server to client
>>>> for purpose of long distance; i.e. you home base in England (server)
>>>> go to France and call a client in Japan. Your calls to England home
>>>> office, gratis. France to Japan would be billed from England ->
>>>> Japan. There are ways to mitigate expense if not reduce to zero
>>>> altogether if memory serves. It has been ages since I used this last
>>>> but the project is still going strong and OS. File transfers can be
>>>> handled through any number of online fileshare option, rather
>>>> previlent these days.
>>> Yes, I'm aware of Asterisk and considered it back when I was interested
>>> in Google Voice. That's no longer the case and I virtually never make
>>> actual phone calls rather than calling over WhatsApp or similar,SIP and H.323
>>> Skype is already good enough for the few I do make - mainly to my US
>>> bank. If only these apps supported receiving SMS messages ...
> Asterisk is really a full-boat VOIP PBX system, not a replacement for
> Skype or Slack or GotoMeeting or anything like that. Really anything
> that implements SIP and H.323 can be replacements (ekiga, softphone,
> etc.) for Skype and its ilk, but you need coordination between the
> clients and there are very, VERY few free ones out there. The hardware
> for tying into a POTS (plain-old telephone system) is expensive, plus
> you have to pay for the lines themselves. So far, I haven't found anyone
> philanthropic enough or with deep-enough pockets to fund something
> like that for free.
> - Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, AllDigital ricks(a)alldigital.com -
> - AIM/Skype: therps2 ICQ: 22643734 Yahoo: origrps2 -
> - -
> - Brain: The organ with which we think that we think. -
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