A friend came to me asking for help I was not able to figure out.
He has multiple laptops, at different geographical locations. On all of them, he uses fedora and TB.
What he has bot been able to achieve is that all laptops download the same messages from gmail.
But what happens is that if laptop A downloads all latest messages. Then if he logs off, and 2 days later, he logs in on laptop B and tried to download all messages, he only gets the ones that come in AFTER the ones he downloaded on laptop A.
How can he config TB to always download messages that have not been downloaded?
Or is it an issue with the gmail server itself?
I have seen a solution that advises the use of IMAP instead of pop3.
But that is not what he wants, because sometimes he does not have access to the web, and would still like to read messages he has not read yet, so he needs them to be on the laptops.
Perhaps it cannot be done???
Thanx.
On 08/20/2015 04:06 PM, jd1008 wrote:
I have seen a solution that advises the use of IMAP instead of pop3.
But that is not what he wants, because sometimes he does not have access to the web, and would still like to read messages he has not read yet, so he needs them to be on the laptops.
So use IMAP. By default, Thunderbird keeps a copy of messages locally, and can read them without network access.
On 08/20/2015 06:06 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 08/20/2015 04:06 PM, jd1008 wrote:
How can he config TB to always download messages that have not been downloaded?
Are all copies set to leave the messages on the server?
I believe so. Is that what prevents TB from auto-downloading all messages if IMAP is used?
I thought the the option to leave messages on server applies only to the POP3 accounts, since POP3 actually downloads all new messages.
But, the current situation is that he is on pop3 and he cannot download messages which were downloaded by TB on the other laptop. Why is that? Does gmail server keep a flag that the messages were already downloaded?? If so, how can a user prevent that flag from being set on the gmail server?
On Thu, 20 Aug 2015 18:12:25 -0600 jd1008 wrote:
Does gmail server keep a flag that the messages were already downloaded?? If so, how can a user prevent that flag from being set on the gmail server?
Go to your gmail account settings and look at the pop/imap tab. There is a setting for what the server should do with the mail after it is read by pop and one of the options is: do nothing, leave it there.
On 08/20/2015 06:23 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:
On Thu, 20 Aug 2015 18:12:25 -0600 jd1008 wrote:
Does gmail server keep a flag that the messages were already downloaded?? If so, how can a user prevent that flag from being set on the gmail server?
Go to your gmail account settings and look at the pop/imap tab. There is a setting for what the server should do with the mail after it is read by pop and one of the options is: do nothing, leave it there.
There is no "Do nothing" option. These are the options: Keep GMail's copy in the Inbox Mark Gmail's copy as Read Archive GMail's copy Delete GMail's copy
On 08/20/2015 06:37 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:
On Thu, 20 Aug 2015 18:34:55 -0600 jd1008 wrote:
Keep GMail's copy in the Inbox
Which is do nothing. It is already in the inbox, it stays in the inbox.
But, once downloaded by one of his TB clients, he is not able to download them on the other TB client. This is the issue. I am sure you read my reply to Joe Zeff. I think it IS the gmail server that is doing this, but none of the settings betray how it is done.
On 08/20/2015 05:42 PM, jd1008 wrote:
But, once downloaded by one of his TB clients, he is not able to download them on the other TB client. This is the issue. I am sure you read my reply to Joe Zeff. I think it IS the gmail server that is doing this, but none of the settings betray how it is done.
Back when I did tech support for an ISP, we occasionally had calls from customers who needed to download the same emails (POP3) to several machines. We had them set all but one of them to leave the mail on the server, and made sure that the one that took them off was the last one to download them. I'm not sure that you can do this with Gmail because I don't know if it honors deletion requests from the client.
On 08/20/2015 06:52 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 08/20/2015 05:42 PM, jd1008 wrote:
But, once downloaded by one of his TB clients, he is not able to download them on the other TB client. This is the issue. I am sure you read my reply to Joe Zeff. I think it IS the gmail server that is doing this, but none of the settings betray how it is done.
Back when I did tech support for an ISP, we occasionally had calls from customers who needed to download the same emails (POP3) to several machines. We had them set all but one of them to leave the mail on the server, and made sure that the one that took them off was the last one to download them. I'm not sure that you can do this with Gmail because I don't know if it honors deletion requests from the client.
It apparently does support deletion, once downloaded, as I showed Tom Horsely: These are the options: Keep GMail's copy in the Inbox Mark Gmail's copy as Read Archive GMail's copy Delete GMail's copy
But he has selected Keep GMail's copy in the Inbox.
So, I am puzzled why the next TB client is not downloading his new messages. Perhaps this is a question only Google can answer, and I have had no luck getting no luck getting answers from google support.
On Thu, 20 Aug 2015 19:10:06 -0600 jd1008 wrote:
So, I am puzzled why the next TB client is not downloading his new messages.
Mail clients can explicitly delete messages, which would render any google server setting useless if TB is doing that. Perhaps there is a TB account setting that can be changed as well (or a better mail client :-).
On 08/20/2015 07:21 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:
On Thu, 20 Aug 2015 19:10:06 -0600 jd1008 wrote:
So, I am puzzled why the next TB client is not downloading his new messages.
Mail clients can explicitly delete messages, which would render any google server setting useless if TB is doing that. Perhaps there is a TB account setting that can be changed as well (or a better mail client :-).
All his TB settings for messages are set (check-marked) Leave messages on server.
But it does not seem to help :(
On 08/20/2015 06:29 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 08/20/2015 05:12 PM, jd1008 wrote:
I thought the the option to leave messages on server applies only to the POP3 accounts, since POP3 actually downloads all new messages.
Sorry; I was under the impression that you were using POP3. My mistake.
Too many misunderstandings, especially when we miss the whole thread.
The guy is using pop3.
All he wants to accomplish is to make all 4 laptops be able to download all new messages that were not downloaded before on any of the laptops he has. But Gmail seems to know that the messages were downloaded by a mail client, and the next client that connects to gmail server, is not sent the new messages already sent to the other client.
On 08/20/15 19:37, jd1008 wrote:
On 08/20/2015 06:29 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 08/20/2015 05:12 PM, jd1008 wrote:
I thought the the option to leave messages on server applies only to the POP3 accounts, since POP3 actually downloads all new messages.
Sorry; I was under the impression that you were using POP3. My mistake.
Too many misunderstandings, especially when we miss the whole thread.
The guy is using pop3.
All he wants to accomplish is to make all 4 laptops be able to download all new messages that were not downloaded before on any of the laptops he has. But Gmail seems to know that the messages were downloaded by a mail client, and the next client that connects to gmail server, is not sent the new messages already sent to the other client.
. that is because gmail is gmail is gmail. therefore, gmail is not like real email servers. if _any_ email is read, it is marked as read no matter who reads it.
best thing for your friend to do is get an account with a real mail server and have that server pull gmail emails, then pull emails from that server with it set as imap. then all but one are set to leave emails on server with the "one" set to remove emails.
On 08/20/15 21:14, g wrote: <<>>
that is because gmail is gmail is gmail. therefore, gmail is not like real email servers. if _any_ email is read, it is marked as read no matter who reads it.
best thing for your friend to do is get an account with a real mail server and have that server pull gmail emails, then pull emails from that server with it set as imap. then all but one are set to leave emails on server with the "one" set to remove emails.
. ooppss.
after reading Ed's post i logged my gmail account because i had missed that gmail knows how do imap. sure enough, it is a hot link at top of page.
still, your friend needs to get a real email server. ;-)
On 08/21/15 07:06, jd1008 wrote:
A friend came to me asking for help I was not able to figure out.
He has multiple laptops, at different geographical locations. On all of them, he uses fedora and TB.
What he has bot been able to achieve is that all laptops download the same messages from gmail.
But what happens is that if laptop A downloads all latest messages. Then if he logs off, and 2 days later, he logs in on laptop B and tried to download all messages, he only gets the ones that come in AFTER the ones he downloaded on laptop A.
How can he config TB to always download messages that have not been downloaded?
Or is it an issue with the gmail server itself?
I have seen a solution that advises the use of IMAP instead of pop3.
But that is not what he wants, because sometimes he does not have access to the web, and would still like to read messages he has not read yet, so he needs them to be on the laptops.
Perhaps it cannot be done???
The better solution for your friend is to switch to IMAP as IMAP has been designed from the start to work with multiple clients.
If you watch the T-Bird processes on multiple clients using POP you'll notice that the status reported on some will be "There are no NEW message" while one client will get a message. This is because the server has no way to determine which of the multiple clients has downloaded a message so when a message is downloaded by any client it is no longer marked as "NEW" on the server.
If you want to get all of the messages on to a given client you have to go to the gmail settings for POP3 and check the box for "Enable POP for all mail (even mail that's already been downloaded". But be advised that this is a "one shot" setting and the next client that connects to download will get all the messages on the server BUT the setting will be cleared. You'd have to do this over and over again for all you clients.
So...just move to IMAP is the real answer.
On 08/20/2015 08:05 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
On 08/21/15 07:06, jd1008 wrote:
A friend came to me asking for help I was not able to figure out.
He has multiple laptops, at different geographical locations. On all of them, he uses fedora and TB.
What he has bot been able to achieve is that all laptops download the same messages from gmail.
But what happens is that if laptop A downloads all latest messages. Then if he logs off, and 2 days later, he logs in on laptop B and tried to download all messages, he only gets the ones that come in AFTER the ones he downloaded on laptop A.
How can he config TB to always download messages that have not been downloaded?
Or is it an issue with the gmail server itself?
I have seen a solution that advises the use of IMAP instead of pop3.
But that is not what he wants, because sometimes he does not have access to the web, and would still like to read messages he has not read yet, so he needs them to be on the laptops.
Perhaps it cannot be done???
The better solution for your friend is to switch to IMAP as IMAP has been designed from the start to work with multiple clients.
If you watch the T-Bird processes on multiple clients using POP you'll notice that the status reported on some will be "There are no NEW message" while one client will get a message. This is because the server has no way to determine which of the multiple clients has downloaded a message so when a message is downloaded by any client it is no longer marked as "NEW" on the server.
If you want to get all of the messages on to a given client you have to go to the gmail settings for POP3 and check the box for "Enable POP for all mail (even mail that's already been downloaded". But be advised that this is a "one shot" setting and the next client that connects to download will get all the messages on the server BUT the setting will be cleared. You'd have to do this over and over again for all you clients.
So...just move to IMAP is the real answer.
Phew!!! THAT WAS IT!!! Awesome. Hey --- I will tell my friend the source of the solution, so don't worry - I will not claim the kudos :) :)
On 08/21/15 10:14, jd1008 wrote:
Phew!!! THAT WAS IT!!!
While that will "fix" the issue initially it probably will introduce a new "issue". Doing that process multiple times on a given client will probably result in that client getting multiple copies of the same messages as there is no way to determine which have or haven't been downloaded before.
You could install the "Remove Duplicate Messages" extension to fix that new issue.... Or you can just move to IMAP which is designed for the scenario of multiple clients.
On 08/21/15 10:14, jd1008 wrote:
Phew!!! THAT WAS IT!!!
Oh, this may be the "real" POP3 solution you're needing....
https://support.google.com/mail/answer/47948?hl=en
On 08/20/15 21:50, Ed Greshko wrote: <<>>
Oh, this may be the "real" POP3 solution you're needing....
. good info link Ed. thank you for posting.
made changes to tower. now to let some emails build, then pull and check to see what happens on laptop.
will also be making change to laptop.
On 08/21/15 00:51, g wrote:
On 08/20/15 21:50, Ed Greshko wrote: <<>>
Oh, this may be the "real" POP3 solution you're needing....
. good info link Ed. thank you for posting.
made changes to tower. now to let some emails build, then pull and check to see what happens on laptop.
will also be making change to laptop.
. thanks again Ed.
works great. now i do not have to rsync tower/laptop email.
On Fri, 2015-08-21 at 10:50 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:
On 08/21/15 10:14, jd1008 wrote:
Phew!!! THAT WAS IT!!!
Oh, this may be the "real" POP3 solution you're needing....
Although, in all honesty, IMAP is the better solution. There is *no* advantage in using POP, even if the guy wants to download all his mail locally.
poc
On 08/21/15 19:23, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Fri, 2015-08-21 at 10:50 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:
On 08/21/15 10:14, jd1008 wrote:
Phew!!! THAT WAS IT!!!
Oh, this may be the "real" POP3 solution you're needing....
Although, in all honesty, IMAP is the better solution. There is *no* advantage in using POP, even if the guy wants to download all his mail locally.
I know. I think I said "use IMAP" at least 3 times. But some folks are just..... :-) :-)
On 8/21/15, Ed Greshko ed.greshko@greshko.com wrote:
On 08/21/15 19:23, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Fri, 2015-08-21 at 10:50 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:
On 08/21/15 10:14, jd1008 wrote:
Phew!!! THAT WAS IT!!!
Oh, this may be the "real" POP3 solution you're needing....
Although, in all honesty, IMAP is the better solution. There is *no* advantage in using POP, even if the guy wants to download all his mail locally.
I know. I think I said "use IMAP" at least 3 times. But some folks are just..... :-) :-)
Just my 2 cents on this.
I still use POP3 (concurrently with IMAP) simply because I've encountered on more than one occasion (maybe a software bug, misunderstanding of what the option in software settings meant, or some misclick accident) where Thunderbird implicitly cleared out the older offline messages.
So while I know IMAP is supposed to be the right solution especially for syncing sent emails, sometimes it just feels safer to have the "wrong" solution as a backup too.
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Ed Greshko -
Emmanuel Noobadmin -
g -
Gordon Messmer -
JD -
Joe Zeff -
Patrick O'Callaghan -
Tom Horsley