On 28 November 2013 09:29, Tim ignored_mailbox@yahoo.com.au wrote:
Allegedly, on or about 28 November 2013, Roger sent:
I haven't been following this discussion thread closely of late but would like to understand how and what emails, clients, headers, gmail and faults or not with browsers has to do with "Why some say "rpm hell". I seem to have missed a step.
The thread diverged, and nobody changed the subject line. I think it just petered out with an explanation of what "RPM hell" was, and how it's not unique to RPM.
If your mail client does threading, you could collapse this thread, and walk back up its heritage until it split off. And you could follow just the original thread, keeping this tangent hidden out of the way.
You can't do that when someone stuffs up the threading headers. All the replies just get thrown in a mess on the floor.
I can't think how the problem poster is doing this, other than by being deliberately annoying.
Deliberate or not, it was at least interesting. If using a separate client it can be quite easy, but that normally leaves a more apparent signature in the header showing it's been received by smtp or similar. The problem is that however it's done this is apparently accomplished in just the gmail web interface. (You could also I suppose, if really trolling, compose each reply as a new mail, cutting and pasting, hadn't really considered that possibility.)
It turns out if you use the 'edit subject' option gmail drops the references and in-reply-to (even if you don't actually edit the subject). Arguably this is exactly what you don't want to happen, since you can't edit a subject to indicate something like 'solved' or the that topic has drifted. Anyway, apologies, I've tried it in this email to demonstrate. There may be other ways to accomplish it.
If AP is doing this unintentionally then you can avoid it by using the 'pop-out' option to get an pop-out window rather than edit subject which gets the pop-out but also breaks references.
Allegedly, on or about 28 November 2013, Ian Malone sent:
It turns out if you use the 'edit subject' option gmail drops the references and in-reply-to (even if you don't actually edit the subject).
I didn't even know how you would do that with gmail (nor do I particularly care), though I eventually found that option after hearing it mentioned by name. But every (*) way that I could obviously reply to a message through their interface, worked properly.
* When using webmail interfaces, there's usually a "reply" button somewhere when you're reading a message. Or, one can click on the subject line in the message list, or the message that you're reading, and that will begin a reply to it. All of those sorts of things work. Even some standalone mail clients work in all those ways.
But, generally, with any type of mail client, if you click on an email address, you just create a new message to that address, not a reply (nothing is quoted, and there's no reply-management threading headers).
I don't think one could accidentally use that (edit subject) replying technique, it's highly convoluted to get to it. Any newbie who didn't quite know how to do email would have found one of the far more obvious ways to reply, and used them. And I certainly don't see any reason why someone would do it ("edit subject" replying), unless they actually were intending to change the subject line (which we've seen no evidence of). So I concur with the conclusion that it's being done on purpose, to be annoying.
If the perpetrator actually wants to participate in the mailing list properly, then reply properly. I'll be avoiding those nuisance mangled replies in future.
On 11/28/2013 06:22 PM, Tim wrote:
Allegedly, on or about 28 November 2013, Ian Malone sent:
It turns out if you use the 'edit subject' option gmail drops the references and in-reply-to (even if you don't actually edit the subject).
I didn't even know how you would do that with gmail (nor do I particularly care), though I eventually found that option after hearing it mentioned by name. But every (*) way that I could obviously reply to a message through their interface, worked properly.
evidently Ian Malone found how to do it, because if you will notice, his post that you are replying to did not thread.
what is shown by his header and the rest of the thread breakers are same for the first part of "DKIM-Signature:"
just how Ian did such, i do not know either, nor do i care to see him post such information as it could lend to many others breaking threads.
- When using webmail interfaces, there's usually a "reply" button
<>
So I concur with the conclusion that it's being done on purpose, to be annoying.
i fully agree on above, and next.
If the perpetrator actually wants to participate in the mailing list properly, then reply properly. I'll be avoiding those nuisance mangled replies in future.
again, i fully agree with you on that point, but i doubt that 'ap' actually wants help as he would rather play games and rack up points as i suggest in following...
=+=+= if you look at my post;
Message-ID: 52978392.7040005@bellsouth.net Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 11:55:30 -0600 From: g geleem@bellsouth.net Subject: Re: is something wrong with email server?
you will see where i am breaking down headers to show difference between _broken_ and _non_-_broken_ post.
because children have nothing better to do, i do believe that ap may be playing a game to see how long he can keep posting his troll game and how many will reply until repliers get tired of his troll game.
children from India and Sri Lanka have a very odd sense of humor and like to play games with people from "foreign" countries, because as foreigners, we think and talk funny.
not that i have my "pesticide" filter set, i will not be seeing any more post from the childish monkey. :=)
i hope others follow suite and stop replying to his post.
i ran a search for him posting on other list and i was right about his trolling other linux list.
"ap" is just one of the names he uses. i do not recall the other others he has used, but they all end up showing that he actually is trolling. and, i would not doubt that he is an oos user. =+=+=
once again, i close,,,
*metaxa. opa.*
have fun you all...
((GBWG))
*oops* let out one point.
if you will note;
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 18:18:08 +0100 From: "Patrick Dupre" pdupre@gmx.com Message-ID: 20131127171808.119630@gmx.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: evince
X-Mailer: GMX.com Web Mailer
is also a thread breaker.
Allegedly, on or about 28 November 2013, g sent:
let out one point.
if you will note;
X-Mailer: GMX.com Web Mailer
is also a thread breaker.
I think that one may just be due to a bad webmail client. Some of them are just plain awful, in a plethora of ways.
He has posted from at least three other addresses, in the past, which worked properly. Just the gmx.com one that goes bad. I can't say that I remember noticing any behaviour that indicated he was trolling. Though he seems to do quite a bit of commuting, between the chemistry departments of two universities in Britain and France. ;-)
hello tim,
On 11/29/2013 09:02 AM, Tim wrote: <>
He has posted from at least three other addresses, in the past, which worked properly. Just the gmx.com one that goes bad.
true.
I can't say that I remember noticing any behaviour that indicated he was trolling.
nor i.
i was just commenting that gmx.com is _is_also_a_thread_breaker_.
On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 01:32:11AM +1030, Tim wrote:
Allegedly, on or about 28 November 2013, g sent:
let out one point.
if you will note;
X-Mailer: GMX.com Web Mailer
is also a thread breaker.
I think that one may just be due to a bad webmail client. Some of them are just plain awful, in a plethora of ways.
He has posted from at least three other addresses, in the past, which worked properly. Just the gmx.com one that goes bad. I can't say that I remember noticing any behaviour that indicated he was trolling. Though he seems to do quite a bit of commuting, between the chemistry departments of two universities in Britain and France. ;-)
Continually asking questions that can be answered with a simple web search qualifies as trolling, especially when he's been repeatedly admonished about it. He also is polluting at least 2 other lists asking the same sort of questions. He's posted under more than one name and from more than one address. Yeah, he definitely qualifies as a troll. Either that or he's a mental deficient.
- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor Strangelove Key ID 8D549279
On 29/11/13 14:18, Robert Holtzman wrote:
Continually asking questions that can be answered with a simple web search qualifies as trolling, especially when he's been repeatedly admonished about it. He also is polluting at least 2 other lists asking the same sort of questions. He's posted under more than one name and from more than one address. Yeah, he definitely qualifies as a troll. Either that or he's a mental deficient.
Bob Holtzman
I don't know about deficient but it certainly appears to be a mental aberration of some kind and this thread probably provides the recognition he was looking for.
I filtered it to "junk" after the second or third message but the responses keep coming along.
Bob
hello bob,
On 11/29/2013 01:35 PM, Bob Goodwin - Zuni, Virginia, USA wrote: <>
I don't know about deficient but it certainly appears to be a mental aberration of some kind and this thread probably provides the recognition he was looking for.
you are 100% dead on.
as i said in another post, 'ap' is playing games that his sick mind needs.
it has to do with his existence and needing to be recognized, which, i believe has to do with his ethnic heritage.
I filtered it to "junk" after the second or third message but the responses keep coming along.
it took me a little longer to trash can him. it now looks like i will need to add the 2 "Subject:" that he is posting to.
On 11/29/2013 2:35 PM, Bob Goodwin - Zuni, Virginia, USA wrote:
On 29/11/13 14:18, Robert Holtzman wrote:
Continually asking questions that can be answered with a simple web search qualifies as trolling, especially when he's been repeatedly admonished about it. He also is polluting at least 2 other lists asking the same sort of questions. He's posted under more than one name and from more than one address. Yeah, he definitely qualifies as a troll. Either that or he's a mental deficient.
Bob Holtzman
I don't know about deficient but it certainly appears to be a mental aberration of some kind and this thread probably provides the recognition he was looking for.
I filtered it to "junk" after the second or third message but the responses keep coming along.
Bob
Ya'll have seen the AP is gone yet the thread goes on and on? :-)
g, this is the signature of your email account, right?
hello poma.
On 11/28/2013 10:27 PM, poma wrote:
g, this is the signature of your email account, right?
--
peace out.
in a world with out fences, who needs gates.
tc.hago.
g .
this is true. it is my sig.
but true also, i am not "AP worldwithoutfences@gmail.com"
if you check headers closer, you will be able to determine that troll "AP" and i are not one in the same.
And the spammer/troller/whatever aka AP uses this email address: worldwithoutfences@gmail.com
Do you notice the coincidence?
yes, i am aware.
some time back, around 2, maybe 3 years ago, when 'ap' first appeared with his 'worldwithoutfences' name, he made comment about 'stealing' the name.
if you feel like spending a little time searching fedora archives, you will find his first email and making comment.
later, when some of the respondents started challenging him, he switched to a different user name. there were a few similarities in his emails and i confronted him off list. at first he denied my allegations, but later admitted to them. i even tracked him down by his true name.
i still have the emails, but they are on an other system than had boot tracks wiped when i tried an install of f17 and it change 2 ext4 120G00 drive and 1 ext4 6G00 drive to lvm drives.
{if you would like information that i can recall about 'ap', contact me _off_list_, with [off-list] in "Subject:". i will be glad to pass it along to you.}
i am hoping to be ordering 2 new new terabyte drives by end of this month so that i can run "gag" on the trashed drives and recover all that was on them. correspondence with 'ap' is on what i used as my backup drive that my "r2i" [around to it] had not gotten to backing up to dvd's.
to verify, you can also check archives and find where i posted about losing drives and a reply poster suggesting "gag". poster who suggested "gag", may still be around and can verify, if he recalls such.
my 'chemo brain' does not recall his name. :=(
I wonder if this is a modern version of the "Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde".
lol. no it is not. i gave up mighty mouse's 'white power' years ago. ;=)
Although there is a possibility that Mr. Spammer/Troller/Hyde joke at your expense.
it is not really at my expense. it is more like "ap's" downfall because i remembered him from past years.
i had been trying to give him benefit of doubt, but his refusal of using thunderbird as a downloading client for his gmail account as i explained to him [off-list], has cause me to believe that he is back to his 'games' as he was before.
this is why i now call him an 'internet troll'.
And I can think of some other characters who have dwelled on this list that could play an alter ego. MEGA LoL!
bwg. i agree, but they are not _asinine_ about it.
However we don't get bored.
true. but in regards to 'ap', it is more like _feed_up_.
Bee awesome.:!
Yours sincerely,
Sherlock Holmes
another lover of the 'white power'. ;=)
later.
-
Bob Goodwin -
Bob Holtzman -
David -
g -
Ian Malone -
poma -
Tim