Domain of sender address ... does not exist

[Philip Prindeville]

I'm occasionally seeing the following error:

This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:

[e-mail]
    (generated from [e-mail])
    SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO::
    host mail.redfish-solutions.com [66.232.79.143]:
    553 5.1.8 ... Domain of sender address [e-mail] does not exist

This is on an externally generated email that is coming into my domain
(redfish-solutions.com). The mailbox name is valid (it's been munged
here to protect against spam address harvesters).

Looked at the cf/cf/generic-linux.cf briefly, but it's been too long
since I've munged .cf files (these days I cop out and us the .mc
versions instead).

What's going on, and how do I fix it?

Thanks,

-Philip

[Tim]

On Thu, 2009-12-10 at 10:14 -0800, Philip A. Prindeville wrote:
> his message was created automatically by mail delivery software.
>
> A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
> recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es)
> failed:
>
> [e-mail]
>     (generated from [e-mail])
>     SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT
> TO::
>     host mail.redfish-solutions.com [66.232.79.143]:
>     553 5.1.8 ... Domain of sender
> address [e-mail] does not exist
>
> This is on an externally generated email that is coming into my domain
> (redfish-solutions.com). The mailbox name is valid (it's been munged
> here to protect against spam address harvesters).

Well, according to my quick test, using the "dig" tool, that domain
doesn't exist.  Though, a whois check shows that it does.  So, somewhere
there's a problem with your public domain records.  The dig tool might
help you sort out where (you can query different DNS servers with it).

dig redfish-solutions.com
gets no answer

But this does:
 dig redfish-solutions.com MX

[John Aldrich]

On Friday 11 December 2009, Tim wrote:
> On Thu, 2009-12-10 at 10:14 -0800, Philip A. Prindeville wrote:
> > his message was created automatically by mail delivery software.
> >
> > A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
> > recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es)
> > failed:
> >
> > [e-mail]
> >     (generated from [e-mail])
> >     SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT
> > TO::
> >     host mail.redfish-solutions.com [66.232.79.143]:
> >     553 5.1.8 ... Domain of sender
> > address [e-mail] does not exist
> >
> > This is on an externally generated email that is coming into my domain
> > (redfish-solutions.com). The mailbox name is valid (it's been munged
> > here to protect against spam address harvesters).
>
> Well, according to my quick test, using the "dig" tool, that domain
> doesn't exist.  Though, a whois check shows that it does.  So, somewhere
> there's a problem with your public domain records.  The dig tool might
> help you sort out where (you can query different DNS servers with it).
>
> dig redfish-solutions.com
> gets no answer
>
> But this does:
>  dig redfish-solutions.com MX

Sounds like there may be no "A" record for redfish-solutions.com.

[Tim]

On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 06:08 -0500, John Aldrich wrote:
> Sounds like there may be no "A" record for redfish-solutions.com.

There definitely wasn't, here.  But the original poster didn't state
whether there should be public records for the domain.  "External" could
just been another network they work with.

[John Aldrich]

On Friday 11 December 2009, Tim wrote:
> On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 06:08 -0500, John Aldrich wrote:
> > Sounds like there may be no "A" record for redfish-solutions.com.
>
> There definitely wasn't, here.  But the original poster didn't state
> whether there should be public records for the domain.  "External" could
> just been another network they work with.

Even if there's no website, there needs to be an "A" record. Since it's a 
valid domain. I would guess they're trying to set up an email-only domain 
and some mail servers don't like that. Just leave the "parked" website up 
and running at your registrar and that might work. OTOH, you might still 
need to put up a generic "under construction" website to fool the spam-
checkers so that the A record and the MX record match.

[Tim]

On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 16:24 -0500, John Aldrich wrote:
> Even if there's no website, there needs to be an "A" record. Since
> it's a valid domain.

Well, at least for the FQDNs that they're actually making using, such as
the ones the MX records point to (and they do).  There are records for
both "mail" and "www" subdomains.

There probably should be an A record for just the domain name, but I've
not looked into the specs about this for a long time, and I'm not
willing to go by memory.
> I would guess they're trying to set up an email-only domain 
> and some mail servers don't like that.

Ugh.  Having to pander to things stuffed up by other people.
> Just leave the "parked" website up and running at your registrar and
> that might work.

There's no real (proper) need to have any website attached to a domain
name, no website address, no webserver.

Even if you're going to pander to stupid services, you should only need
to set up the right domain records, but not actually have a webserver.

[Philip Prindeville]

On 12/11/2009 01:24 PM, John Aldrich wrote:
> On Friday 11 December 2009, Tim wrote:
> > On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 06:08 -0500, John Aldrich wrote:
> > > Sounds like there may be no "A" record for redfish-solutions.com.
> >
> > There definitely wasn't, here.  But the original poster didn't state
> > whether there should be public records for the domain.  "External" could
> > just been another network they work with.
>
> Even if there's no website, there needs to be an "A" record. Since it's a 
> valid domain. I would guess they're trying to set up an email-only domain 
> and some mail servers don't like that. Just leave the "parked" website up 
> and running at your registrar and that might work. OTOH, you might still 
> need to put up a generic "under construction" website to fool the spam-
> checkers so that the A record and the MX record match.

Why would I need an A record?  All mailers should support MXing, right?

As long as my MX points to a name that has a valid A record, I should be golden.

[John Aldrich]

On Wednesday 16 December 2009, Philip A. Prindeville wrote:
> > Even if there's no website, there needs to be an "A" record. Since
> > it's a valid domain. I would guess they're trying to set up an
> > email-only domain and some mail servers don't like that. Just leave
> > the "parked" website up and running at your registrar and that might
> > work. OTOH, you might still need to put up a generic "under
> > construction" website to fool the spam- checkers so that the A record
> > and the MX record match.
>
> Why would I need an A record?  All mailers should support MXing, right?
>
> As long as my MX points to a name that has a valid A record, I should be
>  golden.

In theory, you don't need an A record. However, some mail servers won't 
accept email from a domain that doesn't have an A record as an anti-spam 
measure. Even if the mail server has an A record, it may not be enough.

[Tony Nelson]

On 09-12-11 04:32:11, Tim wrote:
  ...
> Well, according to my quick test, using the "dig" tool, that domain
> doesn't exist.  Though, a whois check shows that it does.  So,  
> somewhere
> there's a problem with your public domain records.  The dig tool might
> help you sort out where (you can query different DNS servers with it).
>
> dig redfish-solutions.com
> gets no answer
>
> But this does:
>  dig redfish-solutions.com MX

$ dig redfish-solutions.com SOA
  ...
;; ANSWER SECTION:
redfish-solutions.com.	86400	IN	SOA	ns09.domaincontrol.com.  
dns.jomax.net. 2005062000 28800 7200 604800 86400
  ...
$ dig @ns09.domaincontrol.com. redfish-solutions.com ANY
  ...
;; ANSWER SECTION:
redfish-solutions.com.	86400	IN	SOA	ns09.domaincontrol.com.  
dns.jomax.net. 2005062000 28800 7200 604800 86400
redfish-solutions.com.	43200	IN	MX	10  
mail.redfish-solutions.com.
redfish-solutions.com.	3600	IN	NS	ns09.domaincontrol.com.
redfish-solutions.com.	3600	IN	NS	ns10.domaincontrol.com.
redfish-solutions.com.	43200	IN	TXT	"v=spf1 mx -all"

;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
mail.redfish-solutions.com. 43200 IN	A	66.232.79.143
  ...

[John Aldrich]

On Friday 11 December 2009, Tony Nelson wrote:
> $ dig redfish-solutions.com SOA
>   ...
> ;; ANSWER SECTION:
> redfish-solutions.com.	86400	IN	SOA	ns09.domaincontrol.com.
> dns.jomax.net. 2005062000 28800 7200 604800 86400
>   ...
> $ dig @ns09.domaincontrol.com. redfish-solutions.com ANY
>   ...
> ;; ANSWER SECTION:
> redfish-solutions.com.	86400	IN	SOA	ns09.domaincontrol.com.
> dns.jomax.net. 2005062000 28800 7200 604800 86400
> redfish-solutions.com.	43200	IN	MX	10
> mail.redfish-solutions.com.
> redfish-solutions.com.	3600	IN	NS	ns09.domaincontrol.com.
> redfish-solutions.com.	3600	IN	NS	ns10.domaincontrol.com.
> redfish-solutions.com.	43200	IN	TXT	"v=spf1 mx -all"
>
> ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
> mail.redfish-solutions.com. 43200 IN	A	66.232.79.143
>   ...

Guessing here... perhaps the problem is that there's no "A" record for 
"redfish-solutions.com"???

[Tony Nelson]

On 09-12-11 16:27:00, John Aldrich wrote:
 ...
> Guessing here... perhaps the problem is that there's no "A" record 
> for "redfish-solutions.com"???

That could be the problem, if certain misconfigured senders 
consistently produce the problem (as there is no requirement that a 
domain have an A record to exchange mail, and FcRDNS works for the 
given domain).  OTOH, if the problem is transient, then it may reflect 
an issue with DNS propagation or the DNS servers, an issue I 
occasionally see.  The OP wasn't clear on this.

[Greg Woods]

On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 18:02 -0500, Tony Nelson wrote:
> there is no requirement that a 
> domain have an A record to exchange mail

True, but there are plenty of mail servers (including sourceforge.net)
that verify DNS information by back connecting. The domain therefore has
to either have an A record, or an MX record pointing to a server that
does have an A record, and the server the MX points to (or A if no MX)
must be reachable on the SMTP port. We have found this out because we
modify all MX records to point to our gateway, and we've had people send
mail out from machines we weren't told were mail originators (and
therefore they have no MX), and since the SMTP servers on these machines
are not reachable from outside, mail servers like sourceforge.net refuse
to accept mail from these hosts. So it is possible to have your outgoing
mail rejected due to DNS inconsistencies.

--Greg

[Philip Prindeville]

On 12/11/2009 03:20 PM, Greg Woods wrote:
> On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 18:02 -0500, Tony Nelson wrote:
> > there is no requirement that a 
> > domain have an A record to exchange mail
>
> True, but there are plenty of mail servers (including sourceforge.net)
> that verify DNS information by back connecting. The domain therefore has
> to either have an A record, or an MX record pointing to a server that
> does have an A record, and the server the MX points to (or A if no MX)
> must be reachable on the SMTP port. We have found this out because we
> modify all MX records to point to our gateway, and we've had people send
> mail out from machines we weren't told were mail originators (and
> therefore they have no MX), and since the SMTP servers on these machines
> are not reachable from outside, mail servers like sourceforge.net refuse
> to accept mail from these hosts. So it is possible to have your outgoing
> mail rejected due to DNS inconsistencies.
>
> --Greg

Well, I did some digging.

One instance where this happens is the following.

If I send this to my own "[e-mail]" account, from my account here (which is were it gets forwarded back to anyway), then I see this behavior.

If I sent this to the same account from a 3rd party server (gmail, etc) then it works fine.

Very, very odd.