12:27 p.m.
Hi,
I've got a 6600GT AGP card in my desktop and been trying to get it
to do dual display LCD + TV (for a while) Low-Def TV is PAL-Aus
On boot it shows the text screen on both the LCD and the TV, but
when I startx the TV goes strange (nothing that looks like hires
graphics)
To make matters worse I just got a 1680x1050 screen and had to
up my kernel (2.6.20-1.2944.fc6) and upgrade xorg server
(xorg-x11-server-Xorg-1.1.1-47.8.fc6) to get that to work
Preferably as 2 screen rather than duplicating one screen on
both (since one is 1680x1050 and the TV is WAY smaller than that)
Can I do that with the nv driver or do I need the driver from
nVidia?
Has someone got a sample xorg.conf that works like this?
I've tried all sorts of options with the nv driver but have been
unable to get it to work since I'm not sure exactly how xorg.conf
should look or even if that works with the nv driver, and I can't
seem to find a clear example googling either
-Thanks for any help
12:36 p.m.
The 'nv' X driver doesn't support TV-out. You'll need to use the
nvidia X driver.
On 4/27/07, Andrew <rhml2(a)k1k2.com> wrote:
Hi,
I've got a 6600GT AGP card in my desktop and been trying to get it
to do dual display LCD + TV (for a while) Low-Def TV is PAL-Aus
On boot it shows the text screen on both the LCD and the TV, but
when I startx the TV goes strange (nothing that looks like hires
graphics)
To make matters worse I just got a 1680x1050 screen and had to
up my kernel (2.6.20-1.2944.fc6) and upgrade xorg server
(xorg-x11-server-Xorg-1.1.1-47.8.fc6) to get that to work
Preferably as 2 screen rather than duplicating one screen on
both (since one is 1680x1050 and the TV is WAY smaller than that)
Can I do that with the nv driver or do I need the driver from
nVidia?
Has someone got a sample xorg.conf that works like this?
I've tried all sorts of options with the nv driver but have been
unable to get it to work since I'm not sure exactly how xorg.conf
should look or even if that works with the nv driver, and I can't
seem to find a clear example googling either
-Thanks for any help
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
L. Friedman netllama(a)gmail.com
LlamaLand http://netllama.linux-sxs.org
4:48 p.m.
Andrew writes:
Can I do that with the nv driver or do I need the driver from
nVidia?
You need to use Nvidia's closed-source binary driver. Nvidia refuses to
disclose the technical specification of their graphics hardware, as the
result the free nv driver does not support all features of most Nvidia
cards.
9:34 p.m.
Yes I know that it is closed source and that nv doesn't
support all card options.
I used to use nVidia's drivers many years ago ... when I first
found out about them ...
(checked my nVidia directory ... July 19 2002: driver 2960)
My question was simply which driver I need coz I thought the nv
driver might handle it and I wouldn't have to change drivers -
which someone has already answered.
So when I next can stop X, I'll swap over.
As for nVidia:
That is their choice - why force your opinion on them?
They provide linux drivers for free (and have for years)
- better than many companies ...
Do you provide the linux community with something as good as they
do that is used by so many people for free? ...
Reading your comment seems to be very critical of nVidia.
Though, of course, I could have read your comment wrong ...
On Fri, 2007-04-27 at 17:48 -0400, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
Andrew writes:
> Can I do that with the nv driver or do I need the driver from
> nVidia?
You need to use Nvidia's closed-source binary driver. Nvidia refuses to
disclose the technical specification of their graphics hardware, as the
result the free nv driver does not support all features of most Nvidia
cards.
10:13 p.m.
Andrew writes:
As for nVidia:
That is their choice - why force your opinion on them?
You've got it the other way around. They are the ones who are trying to
foist everything what's wrong with non-free closed software on the free
software community. They are the ones who are taking advantage of the free
software community, taking what they need and refuse to give anything back.
If you want to run closed, non-free binary software, there are plenty of
other operating systems you can choose, which will give you as many non-free
binary blobs as you wish. But that's not what Linux is all about.
They provide linux drivers for free (and have for years)
Only for one specific definition of "free".
- better than many companies ...
I wouldn't say that.
Do you provide the linux community with something as good as they
do that is used by so many people for free? ...
I would give a ballpark estimate of around million people worldwide who are
using my free software. I don't know how that stacks up to the Nvidia's fan
club.
Reading your comment seems to be very critical of nVidia.
Though, of course, I could have read your comment wrong ...
Nope, you've got it pretty much nailed.
5:35 a.m.
On Sat, 2007-04-28 at 23:13 -0400, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
Andrew writes:
> As for nVidia:
> That is their choice - why force your opinion on them?
You've got it the other way around. They are the ones who are trying to
foist everything what's wrong with non-free closed software on the free
software community. They are the ones who are taking advantage of the free
software community, taking what they need and refuse to give anything back.
If you want to run closed, non-free binary software, there are plenty of
other operating systems you can choose, which will give you as many non-free
binary blobs as you wish. But that's not what Linux is all about.
> They provide linux drivers for free (and have for years)
Only for one specific definition of "free".
What are nVidia taking?
They are giving everything necessary to use their cards on Linux
but not have to pay money for the drivers.
How are they asking you to make your software non-free?
Got a copy of that email from them?
... And yes I know what your answer is going to be ...
should I already rebut it?
You think that since their software cannot be included in a
'your definition free' distribution that it matters?
Why?
We all have definitions of free.
RedHat linux ... is that free?
No - you must pay for it and they claim copyright over it and
also consider it a violation of their agreement to have their
distribution without paying money for it.
That's not free either in the 'money' definition of the word.
> - better than many companies ...
I wouldn't say that.
Why?
There are many companies who do not ever offer linux drivers,
nor support developers to produce them.
So the word 'many' seems to fit QUITE well IMO.
> Do you provide the linux community with something as good as
they
> do that is used by so many people for free? ...
I would give a ballpark estimate of around million people worldwide who are
using my free software. I don't know how that stacks up to the Nvidia's fan
club.
You think courier mail is that popular?
I have no idea :P
> Reading your comment seems to be very critical of nVidia.
> Though, of course, I could have read your comment wrong ...
Nope, you've got it pretty much nailed.
Meh - feel free to reply once more - but I shall not continue this
since it has been debated before.
Most people do not have a middle ground - they expect everyone to do
what they want them to do ... coz they are 'right'
It happens everywhere else - why not here also :P
5:53 a.m.
On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 20:35 +1000, Andrew wrote:
What are nVidia taking?
Your money, when you bought some of their hardware.
They are giving everything necessary to use their cards on Linux
but not have to pay money for the drivers.
Not when it doesn't work, and see the above.
And when it doesn't work, your only recourse is to buy another card.
Are you going to risk buying another one from them that mightn't work,
or go for something from somewhere else.
--
(This box runs FC5, my others run FC4 & FC6, in case that's
important to the thread.)
Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.
10:20 a.m.
On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 20:23 +0930, Tim wrote:
And when it doesn't work, your only recourse is to buy another
card.
Are you going to risk buying another one from them that mightn't work,
or go for something from somewhere else.
I'm in that boat right now. The nvidia 3D chipset in my Dell Latitude
D800 doesn't work with compiz. It should, and is listed as being
supported, but it doesn't - all I get is a massively slowed down desktop
as soon as compiz is enabled.
A nvidia tech guy actually asked for info and I gave him everything he
asked for, and then he stopped responding. I guess that means "screw
you".
What sucks more is that the D800 is basically busted, while an even
older Toshiba Satellite (P3 800), with a GeForce2 Go, works beautifully
with compiz. Go figure.
Regards,
Ranbir
--
Kanwar Ranbir Sandhu
Linux 2.6.20-1.2944.fc6 i686 GNU/Linux
11:15:17 up 7 days, 16:07, 1 user, load average: 0.58, 0.27, 0.24
10:36 a.m.
On 5/1/07, Kanwar Ranbir Sandhu <m3freak(a)thesandhufamily.ca> wrote:
On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 20:23 +0930, Tim wrote:
> And when it doesn't work, your only recourse is to buy another card.
> Are you going to risk buying another one from them that mightn't work,
> or go for something from somewhere else.
I'm in that boat right now. The nvidia 3D chipset in my Dell Latitude
D800 doesn't work with compiz. It should, and is listed as being
supported, but it doesn't - all I get is a massively slowed down desktop
as soon as compiz is enabled.
A nvidia tech guy actually asked for info and I gave him everything he
asked for, and then he stopped responding. I guess that means "screw
you".
Where & when did you contact NVIDIA?
10:43 a.m.
On Tue, 2007-05-01 at 08:36 -0700, Lonni J Friedman wrote:
Where & when did you contact NVIDIA?
Late last year, I believe. I just sent an email to their support, and
it went from there.
The conversation kept up for a while, so I was starting to think they
would actually fix the problem, but I was wrong. :(
Regards,
Ranbir
--
Kanwar Ranbir Sandhu
Linux 2.6.20-1.2944.fc6 i686 GNU/Linux
11:42:06 up 7 days, 16:33, 1 user, load average: 0.68, 0.45, 0.39
10:52 a.m.
On 5/1/07, Kanwar Ranbir Sandhu <m3freak(a)thesandhufamily.ca> wrote:
On Tue, 2007-05-01 at 08:36 -0700, Lonni J Friedman wrote:
> Where & when did you contact NVIDIA?
Late last year, I believe. I just sent an email to their support, and
it went from there.
The conversation kept up for a while, so I was starting to think they
would actually fix the problem, but I was wrong. :(
That person was most likely me, however I don't have emails going back
as far as last year to see where the communication dropped off. If I
had to guess, the reason why it couldn't be fixed was because I could
not reproduce the problem. Unless you were provided with a bug
number, or a clear statement that it was a known issue which would be
fixed in a future driver, then you should not have assumed that the
issue would be explicitly investigated further or resolved. If you
still have a copy of the email thread, I'd be curious to see what was
said. We should probably take this off list, as I doubt anyone else
wants to see this dicussion.
12:36 p.m.
On Tue, 2007-05-01 at 08:52 -0700, Lonni J Friedman wrote:
That person was most likely me, however I don't have emails going
back
as far as last year to see where the communication dropped off.
Oh yeah, it was you! I didn't recognize the name.
If I
had to guess, the reason why it couldn't be fixed was because I could
not reproduce the problem. Unless you were provided with a bug
number, or a clear statement that it was a known issue which would be
fixed in a future driver, then you should not have assumed that the
issue would be explicitly investigated further or resolved.
Ummm, okay.
If you
still have a copy of the email thread, I'd be curious to see what was
said. We should probably take this off list, as I doubt anyone else
wants to see this dicussion.
Unfortunately, I don't, and I've given up on it anyway. I'm not going
to bother since I'll be getting a new laptop in a year or so. I can
live without the 3D desktop effects.
Thanks for replying...
Regards,
Ranbir
--
Kanwar Ranbir Sandhu
Linux 2.6.20-1.2944.fc6 i686 GNU/Linux
13:33:47 up 7 days, 18:25, 1 user, load average: 0.81, 1.31, 1.42
5:19 p.m.
Kanwar Ranbir Sandhu writes:
Unfortunately, I don't, and I've given up on it anyway.
I'm not going
to bother since I'll be getting a new laptop in a year or so. I can
live without the 3D desktop effects.
This is your golden opportunity to get rid of this headache, once and for
all. Be sure to buy a laptop with an Intel or ATI chipset that's supported
by Mesa, and have everything working out of the box. I don't see why anyone
who'se in the market for a laptop with Linux would want to put up with this
annoyance, in this day and age.
5:42 p.m.
Sam Varshavchik wrote:
Kanwar Ranbir Sandhu writes:
> Unfortunately, I don't, and I've given up on it anyway. I'm not going
> to bother since I'll be getting a new laptop in a year or so. I can
> live without the 3D desktop effects.
This is your golden opportunity to get rid of this headache, once and
for all. Be sure to buy a laptop with an Intel or ATI chipset that's
supported by Mesa, and have everything working out of the box. I don't
see why anyone who'se in the market for a laptop with Linux would want
to put up with this annoyance, in this day and age.
Careful there. All the new ATI models are unsupported. None of the
X1NNN series are supported by the radeon or ati driver. The commercial
fglrx driver does not support AIGLX and will only work with the XGL
server, which is a pain.
Almost all of the new ATI based laptops are shipping with X1400, X1300,
and other X1NNN series GPUs.
I just rebuilt my X1400 based laptop with 17" WUXGA (1920x1200) display
with F7. The very best I can get is 1600x1200 with the vesa driver, and
of course, no 3D support. The commercial fglrx driver has an issue with
F7 right now.
So saying that anyone should buy ATI GPUs in laptops is asking for
trouble as well.
The video card vendors are trying to maintain lock in, and that means
that both ATI and Nvidia refuse to divulge enough details about the
hardware interface to make an equivalent device driver.
Currently, only intel has enough of the notebook GPU market to make a
reasonable recommendation to Linux consumers. And only intel is
actively working with open source developers. And to make matters
worse, the intel GPUs are generally inferior (3D OpenGL performance
wise) to the others.
Performance wise, only the nvidia driver is on par with its Windows
counterpart.
So what to do? What to buy?
Same old answer: Do what's best for you.
If OpenGL performance is paramount, then there is no option but Nvidia.
If seamless integration is important, the the only major laptop GPU to
buy is intel.
If your company buys what is on sale and gives it to you to work with
(raises hand) then you will probably get stuck with an ATI X1NN series GPU.
Good Luck!
6:37 p.m.
Phil Meyer writes:
So saying that anyone should buy ATI GPUs in laptops is asking for
trouble as well.
Looks like Lenovo is still selling the T43 Thinkpad. I've got an old T43
Thinkpad with an ATI chipset that works perfectly. I'm too lazy too boot it
now, to get the exact model number, but it is Mesa-supported.
Unless Lenovo swapped their hardware, under the coverts (entirely possible),
there are still ATI chipsets being sold that have native Mesa support.
10:19 p.m.
On Tue, 2007-05-01 at 16:42 -0600, Phil Meyer wrote:
The video card vendors are trying to maintain lock in, and that means
that both ATI and Nvidia refuse to divulge enough details about the
hardware interface to make an equivalent device driver.
Kinda begs the question as to whether anybody has ripped apart the
proprietary NVideo Linux drivers, yet, to make something better.
--
(This box runs FC6, my others run FC4 & FC5, in case that's
important to the thread.)
Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.
10:27 p.m.
On 5/1/07, Tim <ignored_mailbox(a)yahoo.com.au> wrote:
On Tue, 2007-05-01 at 16:42 -0600, Phil Meyer wrote:
> The video card vendors are trying to maintain lock in, and that means
> that both ATI and Nvidia refuse to divulge enough details about the
> hardware interface to make an equivalent device driver.
Kinda begs the question as to whether anybody has ripped apart the
proprietary NVideo Linux drivers, yet, to make something better.
It is being worked on:
http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/
Jonathan
8:40 a.m.
Andrew writes:
On Sat, 2007-04-28 at 23:13 -0400, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
>
> If you want to run closed, non-free binary software, there are plenty of
> other operating systems you can choose, which will give you as many non-free
> binary blobs as you wish. But that's not what Linux is all about.
>
> > They provide linux drivers for free (and have for years)
>
> Only for one specific definition of "free".
What are nVidia taking?
Your money.
They are giving everything necessary to use their cards on Linux
but not have to pay money for the drivers.
You certainly paid something for their hardware.
How are they asking you to make your software non-free?
That's not what I said. That's a fairly-well constructed strawman you've
just built.
Got a copy of that email from them?
... And yes I know what your answer is going to be ...
Ok, then you should've saved me the trouble of posting it.
should I already rebut it?
Knock yourself out.
You think that since their software cannot be included in a
'your definition free' distribution that it matters?
Why?
Because it does.
We all have definitions of free.
Yes, and there's two of them, in the English language. Much of the
confusion stems from merging the synonyms for "liberty", and "without
cost",
into a single word. This unfortunate historical accident must be blamed for
causing constant confusion, on the part of simple-minded folks, ever since.
But, other languages managed to evolve past that point; hopefully, some day,
the King's English will do as well.
RedHat linux ... is that free?
Yup.
No - you must pay for it and they claim copyright over it and
also consider it a violation of their agreement to have their
distribution without paying money for it.
You don't know what you're talking about. Look up. See there? High up in
the sky? Way above your head? It's a big, honking clue, and it's called
"CentOS".
That's not free either in the 'money' definition of the
word.
That's more free than Nvidia's definition of free.
> > - better than many companies ...
>
> I wouldn't say that.
Why?
Because.
There are many companies who do not ever offer linux drivers,
nor support developers to produce them.
They don't need to offer a Linux driver for their USB mouse.
Just to join _that_ thread into this one, for efficiency's sake.
> > Do you provide the linux community with something as good as
they
> > do that is used by so many people for free? ...
>
> I would give a ballpark estimate of around million people worldwide who are
> using my free software. I don't know how that stacks up to the Nvidia's fan
> club.
You think courier mail is that popular?
I have no idea :P
Well, you can begin with imap.spamcop.net, as a starting point, and go from
there.
> > Reading your comment seems to be very critical of nVidia.
> > Though, of course, I could have read your comment wrong ...
>
> Nope, you've got it pretty much nailed.
Meh - feel free to reply once more - but I shall not continue this
since it has been debated before.
Come 'ere, and I'll bite ya kneecaps off!
8:10 p.m.
Meh - I sorted this out a few weeks back.
Here's the results for anyone who likes to use nVidia drivers
It's a dual display: a) LCD, b) TV as separate displays
I do this so I can play movies on the TV fullscreen using
mplayers -fs option (and setting the display to :0.1)
(and still use the LCD)
The 1680x1050 LCD may have had problems before 2.6.20-1.2948.fc6
(well - it did but I'm not sure what changes I made to solve them)
Also note, ScreenX and VideocardY are not the same - I just didn't
swap the names around :P
Section "ServerLayout"
Identifier "Layout0"
Screen 0 "Screen0" 0 0
Screen 1 "Screen1" 1680 0
InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard"
InputDevice "Mouse0" "CorePointer"
EndSection
Section "Files"
RgbPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/rgb"
FontPath "unix/:7100"
EndSection
Section "Module"
Load "dbe"
Load "extmod"
Load "type1"
Load "freetype"
Load "glx"
EndSection
Section "ServerFlags"
Option "Xinerama" "0"
EndSection
Section "InputDevice"
Identifier "Mouse0"
Driver "mouse"
Option "Protocol" "auto"
Option "Device" "/dev/input/mice"
Option "Emulate3Buttons" "no"
Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"
EndSection
Section "InputDevice"
Identifier "Keyboard0"
Driver "kbd"
Option "XkbLayout" "us"
Option "XkbModel" "pc105"
EndSection
Section "Monitor"
Identifier "Monitor1"
VendorName "Unknown"
ModelName "TV-0"
HorizSync 30.0 - 110.0
VertRefresh 60.0
Option "DPMS"
EndSection
Section "Monitor"
Identifier "Monitor0"
VendorName "Unknown"
ModelName "CRT-0"
HorizSync 30.0 - 110.0
VertRefresh 60.0
Option "DPMS"
EndSection
Section "Device"
Identifier "Videocard0"
Driver "nvidia"
VendorName "NVIDIA Corporation"
BoardName "GeForce 6600 GT"
BusID "PCI:1:0:0"
Screen 0
Option "TVStandard" "PAL-B"
EndSection
Section "Device"
Identifier "Videocard1"
Driver "nvidia"
VendorName "NVIDIA Corporation"
BoardName "GeForce 6600 GT"
BusID "PCI:1:0:0"
Screen 1
EndSection
Section "Screen"
Identifier "Screen1"
Device "Videocard0"
Monitor "Monitor1"
DefaultDepth 24
Option "metamodes" "TV: 800x600 +0+0"
SubSection "Display"
Depth 24
Modes "800x600" "640x480"
EndSubSection
EndSection
Section "Screen"
Identifier "Screen0"
Device "Videocard1"
Monitor "Monitor0"
DefaultDepth 24
Option "metamodes" "CRT: 1680x1050 +0+0"
SubSection "Display"
Depth 24
Modes "1680x1050" "1280x1024" "1024x768"
"800x600"
EndSubSection
EndSection
P.S. careful - nVidia 'take' your money, you don't choose to
give it to them - you might want to stay away from nVidia :D :D
6171
days inactive
6202
days old
18 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
Andrew -
Jonathan Berry -
Lonni J Friedman -
Lonni J Friedman -
Phil Meyer -
Ranbir -
Sam Varshavchik -
Tim