KVM and Xen

[Mike Chalmers]

I was wondering if anyone new about these and would explain them to me? Thanks.

[Dave Sampson]

KVM

A switck between computers but able to use one (K)eyboard (V)ideo and 
(M)ouse

For my setup between 4 computers I have one PS2 keyboard, one usb mouse 
with ps2 adapter... and one monitor with SVGA

they all plu into a BOX... then when I double tap SCROLL LOCK followed 
by numbers 1 through 4 I can switch between computers.  For $20 I use a 
generic brand that came with all the necessary cables and powers off os 
ps2 ports. there is also a mnaul botton that I can use if keyboard freezes.

Linux gets a little fritzy sometimes when I do a lot of switching and 
moving around. the fix is a simple re-plug of keyboard usualy or mouse 
if its realy bad.

This is a good setup if you are experimenting with several boxes or 
fixing computers or just a geek.

if you are networking there is a network version you can use put out by 
the people at realVNC.

Does that answer your question.

Mike Chalmers wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone new about these and would explain them to 
> me? Thanks.

[Mike Chalmers]

On 12/30/06, Dave Sampson  wrote:
> KVM
>
> A switck between computers but able to use one (K)eyboard (V)ideo and
> (M)ouse
>
> For my setup between 4 computers I have one PS2 keyboard, one usb mouse
> with ps2 adapter... and one monitor with SVGA
>
> they all plu into a BOX... then when I double tap SCROLL LOCK followed
> by numbers 1 through 4 I can switch between computers.  For $20 I use a
> generic brand that came with all the necessary cables and powers off os
> ps2 ports. there is also a mnaul botton that I can use if keyboard freezes.
>
> Linux gets a little fritzy sometimes when I do a lot of switching and
> moving around. the fix is a simple re-plug of keyboard usualy or mouse
> if its realy bad.
>
> This is a good setup if you are experimenting with several boxes or
> fixing computers or just a geek.
>
> if you are networking there is a network version you can use put out by
> the people at realVNC.
>
> Does that answer your question.
>
> Mike Chalmers wrote:
> > I was wondering if anyone new about these and would explain them to
> > me? Thanks.
>
> --
> fedora-list mailing list
> [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list

You see I need to be able to run Windows so I could use certain pieces
of software. That sounds very easy just being able to press scroll
lock and then change to another OS, I think that is what you are
saying?

Could I run Windows while using Linux using KVM or should I use Xen?
Which is faster? Is there a way to install either using yum? How do
they work?

[Roopnarine, Peter]

I think that the question might actually be in reference to the new kernel
addition (Kernel Virtual Manager? I think). Apparently virtualization
capabilities will be built into the kernel. That's about all that I know, but
it sounds exciting.
Peter

-----Original Message-----
From:	[e-mail] on behalf of Dave Sampson
Sent:	Sat 12/30/2006 3:28 PM
To:	For users of Fedora
Cc:	
Subject:	Re: KVM and Xen

KVM

A switck between computers but able to use one (K)eyboard (V)ideo and 
(M)ouse

For my setup between 4 computers I have one PS2 keyboard, one usb mouse 
with ps2 adapter... and one monitor with SVGA

they all plu into a BOX... then when I double tap SCROLL LOCK followed 
by numbers 1 through 4 I can switch between computers.  For $20 I use a 
generic brand that came with all the necessary cables and powers off os 
ps2 ports. there is also a mnaul botton that I can use if keyboard freezes.

Linux gets a little fritzy sometimes when I do a lot of switching and 
moving around. the fix is a simple re-plug of keyboard usualy or mouse 
if its realy bad.

This is a good setup if you are experimenting with several boxes or 
fixing computers or just a geek.

if you are networking there is a network version you can use put out by 
the people at realVNC.

Does that answer your question.

Mike Chalmers wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone new about these and would explain them to 
> me? Thanks.

[Guillermo Garron]

On 12/30/06, Mike Chalmers  wrote:
> On 12/30/06, Dave Sampson  wrote:
> > KVM
> >
> > A switck between computers but able to use one (K)eyboard (V)ideo and
> > (M)ouse
> >
> > For my setup between 4 computers I have one PS2 keyboard, one usb mouse
> > with ps2 adapter... and one monitor with SVGA
> >
> > they all plu into a BOX... then when I double tap SCROLL LOCK followed
> > by numbers 1 through 4 I can switch between computers.  For $20 I use a
> > generic brand that came with all the necessary cables and powers off os
> > ps2 ports. there is also a mnaul botton that I can use if keyboard freezes.
> >
> > Linux gets a little fritzy sometimes when I do a lot of switching and
> > moving around. the fix is a simple re-plug of keyboard usualy or mouse
> > if its realy bad.
> >
> > This is a good setup if you are experimenting with several boxes or
> > fixing computers or just a geek.
> >
> > if you are networking there is a network version you can use put out by
> > the people at realVNC.
> >
> > Does that answer your question.
> >
> > Mike Chalmers wrote:
> > > I was wondering if anyone new about these and would explain them to
> > > me? Thanks.
> >
> > --
> > fedora-list mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
>
> You see I need to be able to run Windows so I could use certain pieces
> of software. That sounds very easy just being able to press scroll
> lock and then change to another OS, I think that is what you are
> saying?
>
> Could I run Windows while using Linux using KVM or should I use Xen?
> Which is faster? Is there a way to install either using yum? How do
> they work?

Hi,
According to the answer from Dave, you may use KVM if you have two
PCs, one with linux and the other with windows. But if you have only
one PC, you will to go to XEN or VMWARE or QEMU, I have used the last
two, and like VMWARE more, I have never tried XEN.

regards,

Guillermo.
> --
> fedora-list mailing list
> [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list

[Tom Horsley]

On Sat, 30 Dec 2006 17:04:52 -0800
"Roopnarine, Peter"  wrote:
> I think that the question might actually be in reference to the new kernel
> addition (Kernel Virtual Manager? I think). Apparently virtualization
> capabilities will be built into the kernel. That's about all that I know, but
> it sounds exciting.

Yep. KVM gets rid of the "hypervisor" that Xen has, just making the
hypervisor-like functions part of the Dom0 kernel (though no doubt
KVM will have it's own jargon, so it won't call it Dom0). However,
KVM (in current incarnation, anyway) doesn't support Xen's
"paravirtualization" concept - KVM will only work on newer computers
with hardware virtualization support (which is probably an OK restriction
since by the time the kernels with KVM support have stabalized, all new
computers will have the new instructions anyway).

The big advantage I see to KVM is that nothing has to be "special"
about the Dom0 kernel - all the regular old device drivers work fine,
all the posts from people having problems with video drivers in the
Xen kernel disappear, power management works like always, so your
laptop with the Windows guest doesn't drain the battery
in 10 minutes, etc.

The biggest disadvantage will be easy for anyone with an older
computer to spot :-).

The second biggest disadvantage is the totally stupid acronym they
have adopted for it, making it virtually impossible to find any information
in a google search since all you get are hits on hardware switches.

[Mike Chalmers]

On 12/30/06, Tom Horsley  wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Dec 2006 17:04:52 -0800
> "Roopnarine, Peter"  wrote:
> > I think that the question might actually be in reference to the new kernel
> > addition (Kernel Virtual Manager? I think). Apparently virtualization
> > capabilities will be built into the kernel. That's about all that I know, but
> > it sounds exciting.
>
> Yep. KVM gets rid of the "hypervisor" that Xen has, just making the
> hypervisor-like functions part of the Dom0 kernel (though no doubt
> KVM will have it's own jargon, so it won't call it Dom0). However,
> KVM (in current incarnation, anyway) doesn't support Xen's
> "paravirtualization" concept - KVM will only work on newer computers
> with hardware virtualization support (which is probably an OK restriction
> since by the time the kernels with KVM support have stabalized, all new
> computers will have the new instructions anyway).
>
> The big advantage I see to KVM is that nothing has to be "special"
> about the Dom0 kernel - all the regular old device drivers work fine,
> all the posts from people having problems with video drivers in the
> Xen kernel disappear, power management works like always, so your
> laptop with the Windows guest doesn't drain the battery
> in 10 minutes, etc.
>
> The biggest disadvantage will be easy for anyone with an older
> computer to spot :-).
>
> The second biggest disadvantage is the totally stupid acronym they
> have adopted for it, making it virtually impossible to find any information
> in a google search since all you get are hits on hardware switches.
>
> --
> fedora-list mailing list
> [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list

Thanks, Tom can I use KVM with one computer? Does it work with Yum?
Can I run Windows while I am using Linux?

[Tom Horsley]

On Sat, 30 Dec 2006 20:34:14 -0500
"Mike Chalmers"  wrote:
> Thanks, Tom can I use KVM with one computer?

If it has the new instructions on it (I think most Core 2 Duo's do).
> Does it work with Yum?

Not sure what that has to do with anything. If you mean
"can I load it from a fedora repo?", I doubt it at this
point. It is only in the newest most experimental kernels.
> Can I run Windows while I am using Linux?

That's supposed to be one of the points behind most of the
virtualization systems, but I'm not sure how well it is
likely to actually work. As near as I can tell the video
is owned and operated by linux, so the only way to get to the
windows gui would be using one of the remote desktop programs
(which probably means running windows media player or direct-X
games isn't likely to happen).

Too bad, really, what linux really needs is some way to let
windows run the video so we can use windows drivers that
work well :-).

[Dave Sampson]

Mike,

Sorry for the mixup... KVM's are used to switch between multiple 
physical computers... for instance I have a laptop and three towers. 
These are all stand alone machines that use the KVM so I don't need 4 
monitors, 4 mice and 4 keyboards.

Xen on the otherhand lets you run multiple Virtual machines.... that is 
you would use FEDORA as your main operating system and Xen would allow 
you to have virtual machines. The Windows equivalent would be VMware to 
create virtual machines.

If you have one box (ie computer) and you want to run multiple operating 
systems two main choices to consider would be
1. as you pointed out Xen. But you should have a workhorse of a computer 
to do that. Think of what the minimum requirements for XP and Fedora are 
and add those requirements together than add 10%... that is how I would 
think about it. Xen is a convenient way to run multiple operating 
systems but not the most effecient. Virtual machines (such as created 
through Xen) are bloated as you require the whole operating system (as 
aposed to option 3). Virtual machines are often used by windows 
developers and programers. if something messes up then they just close 
the virtual machine instead of rebooting. I find it funny how window 
developers use linux boxes to increase their productivity.

2. Do some research into using GRUB to setup a dual boot system so you 
have a Fedora Partition and an XP partition. This means the system 
resources are alocated sepratedly, but only one OS can run at a time. to 
switch OS's means a reboot.

3. If you want to run Windows applications inside Linux then think of 
researching Linux WINE... or take a look at Crossover office. these are 
options to run your favourite windows application in a linux 
enviornment. WINE is a runtime environment that clones windows and some 
of its libraries. So fo instance you have a good copy of Adobe 
photoshop, or dreamweaver or office XP, then WINE is your ticket to 
using those. A virtual machine is verry bloated.

Mike... ask yourself what you need to run two OS's for... I came from a 
full MS background and the only Windows thing I am still tied to is a 
driver for my wireless card. As a digital photographer,professional 
geographer, ski instructor and tech junkie I have found everything I 
need in the open source realm. Think these decisions out carefully.

Cheers

Mike Chalmers wrote:
> On 12/30/06, Dave Sampson  wrote:
> > KVM
> >
> > A switck between computers but able to use one (K)eyboard (V)ideo and
> > (M)ouse
> >
> > For my setup between 4 computers I have one PS2 keyboard, one usb mouse
> > with ps2 adapter... and one monitor with SVGA
> >
> > they all plu into a BOX... then when I double tap SCROLL LOCK followed
> > by numbers 1 through 4 I can switch between computers.  For $20 I use a
> > generic brand that came with all the necessary cables and powers off os
> > ps2 ports. there is also a mnaul botton that I can use if keyboard 
> > freezes.
> >
> > Linux gets a little fritzy sometimes when I do a lot of switching and
> > moving around. the fix is a simple re-plug of keyboard usualy or mouse
> > if its realy bad.
> >
> > This is a good setup if you are experimenting with several boxes or
> > fixing computers or just a geek.
> >
> > if you are networking there is a network version you can use put out by
> > the people at realVNC.
> >
> > Does that answer your question.
> >
> > Mike Chalmers wrote:
> > > I was wondering if anyone new about these and would explain them to
> > > me? Thanks.
> >
> > -- 
> > fedora-list mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
>
> You see I need to be able to run Windows so I could use certain pieces
> of software. That sounds very easy just being able to press scroll
> lock and then change to another OS, I think that is what you are
> saying?
>
> Could I run Windows while using Linux using KVM or should I use Xen?
> Which is faster? Is there a way to install either using yum? How do
> they work?

[Dave Sampson]

Interesting,

you learn something new everyday...  you'd figure that people would 
start standardizing their TLA's (Three Letter Acronyms). Funny mix up...

Roopnarine, Peter wrote:
> I think that the question might actually be in reference to the new kernel
> addition (Kernel Virtual Manager? I think). Apparently virtualization
> capabilities will be built into the kernel. That's about all that I know, but
> it sounds exciting.
> Peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:	[e-mail] on behalf of Dave Sampson
> Sent:	Sat 12/30/2006 3:28 PM
> To:	For users of Fedora
> Cc:	
> Subject:	Re: KVM and Xen
>
> KVM
>
> A switck between computers but able to use one (K)eyboard (V)ideo and 
> (M)ouse
>
> For my setup between 4 computers I have one PS2 keyboard, one usb mouse 
> with ps2 adapter... and one monitor with SVGA
>
> they all plu into a BOX... then when I double tap SCROLL LOCK followed 
> by numbers 1 through 4 I can switch between computers.  For $20 I use a 
> generic brand that came with all the necessary cables and powers off os 
> ps2 ports. there is also a mnaul botton that I can use if keyboard freezes.
>
> Linux gets a little fritzy sometimes when I do a lot of switching and 
> moving around. the fix is a simple re-plug of keyboard usualy or mouse 
> if its realy bad.
>
> This is a good setup if you are experimenting with several boxes or 
> fixing computers or just a geek.
>
> if you are networking there is a network version you can use put out by 
> the people at realVNC.
>
> Does that answer your question.
>
> Mike Chalmers wrote:
> > I was wondering if anyone new about these and would explain them to 
> > me? Thanks.

[Mike Chalmers]

On 12/30/06, Dave Sampson  wrote:
> Mike,
>
> Sorry for the mixup... KVM's are used to switch between multiple
> physical computers... for instance I have a laptop and three towers.
> These are all stand alone machines that use the KVM so I don't need 4
> monitors, 4 mice and 4 keyboards.
>
> Xen on the otherhand lets you run multiple Virtual machines.... that is
> you would use FEDORA as your main operating system and Xen would allow
> you to have virtual machines. The Windows equivalent would be VMware to
> create virtual machines.
>
> If you have one box (ie computer) and you want to run multiple operating
> systems two main choices to consider would be
> as you pointed out Xen. But you should have a workhorse of a computer
>
> to do that. Think of what the minimum requirements for XP and Fedora are
> and add those requirements together than add 10%... that is how I would
> think about it. Xen is a convenient way to run multiple operating
> systems but not the most effecient. Virtual machines (such as created
> through Xen) are bloated as you require the whole operating system (as
> aposed to option 3). Virtual machines are often used by windows
> developers and programers. if something messes up then they just close
> the virtual machine instead of rebooting. I find it funny how window
> developers use linux boxes to increase their productivity.
> Do some research into using GRUB to setup a dual boot system so you
>
> have a Fedora Partition and an XP partition. This means the system
> resources are alocated sepratedly, but only one OS can run at a time. to
> switch OS's means a reboot.
> If you want to run Windows applications inside Linux then think of
>
> researching Linux WINE... or take a look at Crossover office. these are
> options to run your favourite windows application in a linux
> enviornment. WINE is a runtime environment that clones windows and some
> of its libraries. So fo instance you have a good copy of Adobe
> photoshop, or dreamweaver or office XP, then WINE is your ticket to
> using those. A virtual machine is verry bloated.
>
> Mike... ask yourself what you need to run two OS's for... I came from a
> full MS background and the only Windows thing I am still tied to is a
> driver for my wireless card. As a digital photographer,professional
> geographer, ski instructor and tech junkie I have found everything I
> need in the open source realm. Think these decisions out carefully.
>
> Cheers
>
> Mike Chalmers wrote:
> > On 12/30/06, Dave Sampson  wrote:
> > > KVM
> > >
> > > A switck between computers but able to use one (K)eyboard (V)ideo and
> > > (M)ouse
> > >
> > > For my setup between 4 computers I have one PS2 keyboard, one usb mouse
> > > with ps2 adapter... and one monitor with SVGA
> > >
> > > they all plu into a BOX... then when I double tap SCROLL LOCK followed
> > > by numbers 1 through 4 I can switch between computers.  For $20 I use a
> > > generic brand that came with all the necessary cables and powers off os
> > > ps2 ports. there is also a mnaul botton that I can use if keyboard
> > > freezes.
> > >
> > > Linux gets a little fritzy sometimes when I do a lot of switching and
> > > moving around. the fix is a simple re-plug of keyboard usualy or mouse
> > > if its realy bad.
> > >
> > > This is a good setup if you are experimenting with several boxes or
> > > fixing computers or just a geek.
> > >
> > > if you are networking there is a network version you can use put out by
> > > the people at realVNC.
> > >
> > > Does that answer your question.
> > >
> > > Mike Chalmers wrote:
> > > > I was wondering if anyone new about these and would explain them to
> > > > me? Thanks.
> > >
> > > --
> > > fedora-list mailing list
> > > [e-mail]
> > > To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
> >
> > You see I need to be able to run Windows so I could use certain pieces
> > of software. That sounds very easy just being able to press scroll
> > lock and then change to another OS, I think that is what you are
> > saying?
> >
> > Could I run Windows while using Linux using KVM or should I use Xen?
> > Which is faster? Is there a way to install either using yum? How do
> > they work?
>
> --
> fedora-list mailing list
> [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list

I already have a dual boot setup. The reason I need Windows is because
I play games and use music software. I have tried Wine Hq with no
luck. I think I am going to try a virtual machine and try running
Windows through it.

Would you all recommend Xen or QEMU? Does a P4 3.0 ghz 800 mhz HT support KVM?

Thank you all for the help.

[Tim]

On Sat, 2006-12-30 at 20:57 -0500, Tom Horsley wrote:
> Too bad, really, what linux really needs is some way to let
> windows run the video so we can use windows drivers that
> work well :-).

Ugh, no thanks.  Things could turn around so that to use certain video
cards the one answer is to install Windows.

[Gilboa Davara]

On Sat, 2006-12-30 at 18:15 -0500, Mike Chalmers wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone new about these and would explain them to me? Thanks.

Short and simple.
Xen requires (in most cases *) a modified host and guest kernel and uses
its own management tools.
KVM requires certain extensions (Intel VT, AMD Pacifica/SVM **) to be
present on the host CPU and uses the QEMU front-end.

As for what-to-use, well, a couple of questions:
A. What type of guest do you plan to virtualize? Windows? Linux? BSD?
B. Can you used kernel-modified guests?
C. Are you using VT/SVM enabled hardware?
D. Do you require additional features beyond "simple" virtualization?
(E.g. migration, snapshots, etc)

- Gilboa
* Xen does support VT/SVN enabled hardware - but AFAIK it requires more
over-head then KVM.
** Supported CPU cores:
Intel: P4 6xx, D9xx, Core Duo, Core 2 Duo, Xeon 3xxx/5xxx/7xxx.
AMD: Athlon64 AM2, AMD Opteron s1207/1xxx/2xxx/8xxx.

[Tom Horsley]

On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 17:22:04 +1030
Tim  wrote:
> > Too bad, really, what linux really needs is some way to let
> > windows run the video so we can use windows drivers that
> > work well :-).
>
> Ugh, no thanks.  Things could turn around so that to use certain video
> cards the one answer is to install Windows.

Heck, that's practically the one answer now :-).

[Mike Chalmers]

On 12/31/06, Gilboa Davara  wrote:
> On Sat, 2006-12-30 at 18:15 -0500, Mike Chalmers wrote:
> > I was wondering if anyone new about these and would explain them to me? Thanks.
>
> Short and simple.
> Xen requires (in most cases *) a modified host and guest kernel and uses
> its own management tools.
> KVM requires certain extensions (Intel VT, AMD Pacifica/SVM **) to be
> present on the host CPU and uses the QEMU front-end.
>
> As for what-to-use, well, a couple of questions:
> A. What type of guest do you plan to virtualize? Windows? Linux? BSD?
> B. Can you used kernel-modified guests?
> C. Are you using VT/SVM enabled hardware?
> D. Do you require additional features beyond "simple" virtualization?
> (E.g. migration, snapshots, etc)
> Gilboa
> Xen does support VT/SVN enabled hardware - but AFAIK it requires more
>
> over-head then KVM.
> ** Supported CPU cores:
> Intel: P4 6xx, D9xx, Core Duo, Core 2 Duo, Xeon 3xxx/5xxx/7xxx.
> AMD: Athlon64 AM2, AMD Opteron s1207/1xxx/2xxx/8xxx.
>
> --
> fedora-list mailing list
> [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list

Gilboa here is the answer to your questions. I would like to use KVM,
if it is possible? Thanks.
A. Windows
B. don't know
C. don't know (I am using a P4 3.0 ghz 800 mhz HT 478)
D. don't know

[Gilboa Davara]

On Sun, 2006-12-31 at 12:30 -0500, Mike Chalmers wrote:
> On 12/31/06, Gilboa Davara  wrote:
> > On Sat, 2006-12-30 at 18:15 -0500, Mike Chalmers wrote:
> > > I was wondering if anyone new about these and would explain them to me? Thanks.
> >
> > Short and simple.
> > Xen requires (in most cases *) a modified host and guest kernel and uses
> > its own management tools.
> > KVM requires certain extensions (Intel VT, AMD Pacifica/SVM **) to be
> > present on the host CPU and uses the QEMU front-end.
> >
> > As for what-to-use, well, a couple of questions:
> > A. What type of guest do you plan to virtualize? Windows? Linux? BSD?
> > B. Can you used kernel-modified guests?
> > C. Are you using VT/SVM enabled hardware?
> > D. Do you require additional features beyond "simple" virtualization?
> > (E.g. migration, snapshots, etc)
> > Gilboa
> > Xen does support VT/SVN enabled hardware - but AFAIK it requires more
> >
> > over-head then KVM.
> > ** Supported CPU cores:
> > Intel: P4 6xx, D9xx, Core Duo, Core 2 Duo, Xeon 3xxx/5xxx/7xxx.
> > AMD: Athlon64 AM2, AMD Opteron s1207/1xxx/2xxx/8xxx.
> >
> > --
> > fedora-list mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
>
> Gilboa here is the answer to your questions. I would like to use KVM,
> if it is possible? Thanks.
> A. Windows
> B. don't know
> C. don't know (I am using a P4 3.0 ghz 800 mhz HT 478)
> D. don't know

AFAIR the 478 P4 doesn't include the required VT extensions.
As such, only QEMU or VMWare Player/Server can be used to run unmodified
guests. (Read: Windows)
Both are free.
QEMU is slower, but GPL.
VMWare is (much) faster, but it's close source and as such, if it
breaks, your own your own. *

- Gilboa
* Though in my experience, VMWare server is pretty stable.

[Mike Chalmers]

On 12/31/06, Gilboa Davara  wrote:
> On Sun, 2006-12-31 at 12:30 -0500, Mike Chalmers wrote:
> > On 12/31/06, Gilboa Davara  wrote:
> > > On Sat, 2006-12-30 at 18:15 -0500, Mike Chalmers wrote:
> > > > I was wondering if anyone new about these and would explain them to me? Thanks.
> > >
> > > Short and simple.
> > > Xen requires (in most cases *) a modified host and guest kernel and uses
> > > its own management tools.
> > > KVM requires certain extensions (Intel VT, AMD Pacifica/SVM **) to be
> > > present on the host CPU and uses the QEMU front-end.
> > >
> > > As for what-to-use, well, a couple of questions:
> > > A. What type of guest do you plan to virtualize? Windows? Linux? BSD?
> > > B. Can you used kernel-modified guests?
> > > C. Are you using VT/SVM enabled hardware?
> > > D. Do you require additional features beyond "simple" virtualization?
> > > (E.g. migration, snapshots, etc)
> > > Gilboa
> > > Xen does support VT/SVN enabled hardware - but AFAIK it requires more
> > >
> > > over-head then KVM.
> > > ** Supported CPU cores:
> > > Intel: P4 6xx, D9xx, Core Duo, Core 2 Duo, Xeon 3xxx/5xxx/7xxx.
> > > AMD: Athlon64 AM2, AMD Opteron s1207/1xxx/2xxx/8xxx.
> > >
> > > --
> > > fedora-list mailing list
> > > [e-mail]
> > > To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
> >
> > Gilboa here is the answer to your questions. I would like to use KVM,
> > if it is possible? Thanks.
> > A. Windows
> > B. don't know
> > C. don't know (I am using a P4 3.0 ghz 800 mhz HT 478)
> > D. don't know
>
> AFAIR the 478 P4 doesn't include the required VT extensions.
> As such, only QEMU or VMWare Player/Server can be used to run unmodified
> guests. (Read: Windows)
> Both are free.
> QEMU is slower, but GPL.
> VMWare is (much) faster, but it's close source and as such, if it
> breaks, your own your own. *
> Gilboa
> Though in my experience, VMWare server is pretty stable.
>
> --
> fedora-list mailing list
> [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list

Gilboa, what about Xen?

[Dave Jones]

On Sun, Dec 31, 2006 at 01:21:10PM -0500, Mike Chalmers wrote:
> > AFAIR the 478 P4 doesn't include the required VT extensions.
> > As such, only QEMU or VMWare Player/Server can be used to run unmodified
> > guests. (Read: Windows)
> > Both are free.
> > QEMU is slower, but GPL.
> > VMWare is (much) faster, but it's close source and as such, if it
> > breaks, your own your own. *
>
> Gilboa, what about Xen?

If you don't have VT extensions, you can only run paravirtualised
(read as: modified) versions of other OS's.  So you won't get to
run Windows without VT.

[rumor has it there's a paravirt version of Windows XP, but it
 hasn't been publically released].

Dave

On Sunday 31 December 2006 12:57, Gilboa Davara wrote:
> AFAIR the 478 P4 doesn't include the required VT
> extensions. As such, only QEMU or VMWare Player/Server
> can be used to run unmodified guests. (Read: Windows)

Appears that you said QEMU can only run unmodified quests.  
That is not true.  QEMU can create new VMs.  I am have one 
that I created with QEMU.
> Both are free.
> QEMU is slower, but GPL.
> VMWare is (much) faster, but it's close source and as
> such, if it breaks, your own your own. *
> Gilboa
> Though in my experience, VMWare server is pretty
>
> stable.

[Mike Chalmers]

On 12/31/06, [e-mail]  wrote:
> On Sunday 31 December 2006 12:57, Gilboa Davara wrote:
> > AFAIR the 478 P4 doesn't include the required VT
> > extensions. As such, only QEMU or VMWare Player/Server
> > can be used to run unmodified guests. (Read: Windows)
>
> Appears that you said QEMU can only run unmodified quests.
> That is not true.  QEMU can create new VMs.  I am have one
> that I created with QEMU.
> > Both are free.
> > QEMU is slower, but GPL.
> > VMWare is (much) faster, but it's close source and as
> > such, if it breaks, your own your own. *
> > Gilboa
> > Though in my experience, VMWare server is pretty
> >
> > stable.
>
> --
> fedora-list mailing list
> [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list

Is it Windows? Does QEMU work good?

Dave, I don't really understand your post. I am not to keen on all the
technical terms. Are you saying I can't run Xen?

I really wish that Linux would find a way to run all Windows programs!

[Tim]

On Sun, 2006-12-31 at 17:57 -0500, Mike Chalmers wrote:
> I really wish that Linux would find a way to run all Windows programs!

Including the malware?  If you want to run Windows software, then use
Windows.  There's really no point in having an alternative system, if
you just go ahead and use what you replaced it for.

[Gilboa Davara]

On Sun, 2006-12-31 at 13:21 -0500, Mike Chalmers wrote:
> On 12/31/06, Gilboa Davara  wrote:
> > On Sun, 2006-12-31 at 12:30 -0500, Mike Chalmers wrote:
> > > On 12/31/06, Gilboa Davara  wrote:
> > > > On Sat, 2006-12-30 at 18:15 -0500, Mike Chalmers wrote:
> > > > > I was wondering if anyone new about these and would explain them to me? Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > Short and simple.
> > > > Xen requires (in most cases *) a modified host and guest kernel and uses
> > > > its own management tools.
> > > > KVM requires certain extensions (Intel VT, AMD Pacifica/SVM **) to be
> > > > present on the host CPU and uses the QEMU front-end.
> > > >
> > > > As for what-to-use, well, a couple of questions:
> > > > A. What type of guest do you plan to virtualize? Windows? Linux? BSD?
> > > > B. Can you used kernel-modified guests?
> > > > C. Are you using VT/SVM enabled hardware?
> > > > D. Do you require additional features beyond "simple" virtualization?
> > > > (E.g. migration, snapshots, etc)
> > > > Gilboa
> > > > Xen does support VT/SVN enabled hardware - but AFAIK it requires more
> > > >
> > > > over-head then KVM.
> > > > ** Supported CPU cores:
> > > > Intel: P4 6xx, D9xx, Core Duo, Core 2 Duo, Xeon 3xxx/5xxx/7xxx.
> > > > AMD: Athlon64 AM2, AMD Opteron s1207/1xxx/2xxx/8xxx.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > fedora-list mailing list
> > > > [e-mail]
> > > > To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
> > >
> > > Gilboa here is the answer to your questions. I would like to use KVM,
> > > if it is possible? Thanks.
> > > A. Windows
> > > B. don't know
> > > C. don't know (I am using a P4 3.0 ghz 800 mhz HT 478)
> > > D. don't know
> >
> > AFAIR the 478 P4 doesn't include the required VT extensions.
> > As such, only QEMU or VMWare Player/Server can be used to run unmodified
> > guests. (Read: Windows)
> > Both are free.
> > QEMU is slower, but GPL.
> > VMWare is (much) faster, but it's close source and as such, if it
> > breaks, your own your own. *
> > Gilboa
> > Though in my experience, VMWare server is pretty stable.
> >
> > --
> > fedora-list mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
>
> Gilboa, what about Xen?

Unless you replace the motherboard (LGA 775 and/or AM2) + CPU (P4/775,
CD/C2D, Athlon64AM, etc) + memory (DDR2), Xen can't be used to run
Windows.

Sorry :(
- Gilboa

[Gilboa Davara]

On Sun, 2006-12-31 at 16:53 -0500, [e-mail] wrote:
> On Sunday 31 December 2006 12:57, Gilboa Davara wrote:
> > AFAIR the 478 P4 doesn't include the required VT
> > extensions. As such, only QEMU or VMWare Player/Server
> > can be used to run unmodified guests. (Read: Windows)
>
> Appears that you said QEMU can only run unmodified quests.  
> That is not true.  QEMU can create new VMs.  I am have one 
> that I created with QEMU.

I think you mis-read my post.
Both QEMU and VMWare -can- be used to run unmodified guests on older
hardware. (Read: CPUs that lack VT/SVN extensions)

- Gilboa

On Sunday 31 December 2006 17:57, Mike Chalmers wrote:
> On 12/31/06, [e-mail]

 wrote:
> > Appears that you said QEMU can only run unmodified
> > quests. That is not true.  QEMU can create new VMs.  I
> > am have one that I created with QEMU.
>
> Is it Windows? Does QEMU work good?

Yes W2K, QEMU appears, at least on my box, to run a VM as 
well as VMWare Workstation, Player, Server all of which I 
have on my box.  I only run the VM when I have to have 
winblows to run a local app that is not available at all or 
at the same level in Linux or a web site that is winblows 
centric and won't work without winblows and IE.  Currnetly 
I no longer have that need, so the VM does not get used.