I reported strange things with emacs earlier, but I thought it might be something wrong with my partially configured system.
Nope, it is just plain busted. I've added this bug report:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2249379
I guess I'll have to try building from the fedora 38 source rpm on fedora 39 and see if I can get a working emacs that way.
Hi
On Sun, 12 Nov 2023 12:17:04 -0500 Tom Horsley wrote:
I reported strange things with emacs earlier, but I thought it might be something wrong with my partially configured system.
Nope, it is just plain busted. I've added this bug report:
I don't have that problem myself, using also X11.
Do you have it also running "emacs -Q" (I don't) ?
I'm using also (not with -Q of course) a legacy terminus font, declared in ~/.Xdefaults as:
*Font: -*-terminus-medium-*-*-*-16-*-*-*-*-*-iso10646-1 *font: -*-terminus-medium-*-*-*-16-*-*-*-*-*-iso10646-1
Install first the terminus-fonts-legacy-x11 RPM.
I guess I'll have to try building from the fedora 38 source rpm on fedora 39 and see if I can get a working emacs that way.
You can also try to downgrade with:
dnf --releasever=38 downgrade emacs
dnf accept this, emacs (28.3) starts properly.
On Sun Nov12'23 07:04:36PM, Francis.Montagnac@inria.fr wrote:
From: Francis.Montagnac@inria.fr Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2023 19:04:36 +0100 To: Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org Reply-To: Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: emacs is hopeless
Hi
On Sun, 12 Nov 2023 12:17:04 -0500 Tom Horsley wrote:
I reported strange things with emacs earlier, but I thought it might be something wrong with my partially configured system.
Nope, it is just plain busted. I've added this bug report:
I don't have that problem myself, using also X11.
Do you have it also running "emacs -Q" (I don't) ?
I'm using also (not with -Q of course) a legacy terminus font, declared in ~/.Xdefaults as:
*Font: -*-terminus-medium-*-*-*-16-*-*-*-*-*-iso10646-1 *font: -*-terminus-medium-*-*-*-16-*-*-*-*-*-iso10646-1
Install first the terminus-fonts-legacy-x11 RPM.
I guess I'll have to try building from the fedora 38 source rpm on fedora 39 and see if I can get a working emacs that way.
You can also try to downgrade with:
dnf --releasever=38 downgrade emacs
dnf accept this, emacs (28.3) starts properly.
Thank you for this: downgrading emacs for me to 28.3 (F38) gets rid of the problem that I was having, and that is, that emacs 29.1 can not load a file for me (without emacs -Q).
With emacs -Q in 29.1 (F39), I can load the file all right, but I do not have the correct fonts, and I can not seem to load those.
I wonder why emacs users have not reported my issue with 29.1 on the emacs mailing list.
Best wishes, Ranjan
On Sun Nov12'23 11:22:07AM, Joe Zeff wrote:
From: Joe Zeff joe@zeff.us Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2023 11:22:07 -0700 To: users@lists.fedoraproject.org Reply-To: Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: emacs is hopeless
On 11/12/2023 11:19 AM, Ranjan Maitra via users wrote:
I wonder why emacs users have not reported my issue with 29.1 on the emacs mailing list.
Have you reported it?
On that mailing list, yes.
Ranjan
On Sun, 12 Nov 2023 11:46:21 -0700 Joe Zeff wrote:
On 11/12/2023 11:33 AM, Ranjan Maitra via users wrote:
On that mailing list, yes.
Don't you think that opening a Bugzilla would be a Good Idea?
I started this thread with a mention of this bugzilla:
On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 1:55 PM Tom Horsley horsley1953@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, 12 Nov 2023 11:46:21 -0700 Joe Zeff wrote:
On 11/12/2023 11:33 AM, Ranjan Maitra via users wrote:
On that mailing list, yes.
Don't you think that opening a Bugzilla would be a Good Idea?
I started this thread with a mention of this bugzilla:
The emacs devs were given a heads up for the Fedora bug report. An email was sent to bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org. See https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=67137.
(I'm an emacs user, too. I hope the problems can be sorted out quickly).
Jeff
On 11/12/23 13:19, Ranjan Maitra via users wrote:
Thank you for this: downgrading emacs for me to 28.3 (F38) gets rid of the problem that I was having, and that is, that emacs 29.1 can not load a file for me (without emacs -Q).
With emacs -Q in 29.1 (F39), I can load the file all right, but I do not have the correct fonts, and I can not seem to load those.
I wonder why emacs users have not reported my issue with 29.1 on the emacs mailing list.
Best wishes, Ranjan
As a data point, Emacs 29.1 (from emacs-29.1-2.fc39.x86_64) in Fedora 39 is working fine for me. I had to upgrade a couple of the elisp packages I use and it seems that the very old auto-insert-tkld package that I've used for a long time doesn't work anymore, though I did get some semi-informative error messages. (For the moment, I've just taken the auto-insert-tkld stuff out of my .emacs; maybe I'll try to figure that out later when I have more time, or set up one of the alternatives.) "emacs -q" worked without problems from the beginning.
Since I'm using Wayland, I had to install wl-clipboard and add some code in .emacs to get paste with the middle mouse button into emacs to work (per the Emacs Wiki: https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/CopyAndPaste). But everything else I've tried seems to work fine, including AUCTeX, both with opening new files and editing existing ones.
I'm using KDE with an NVidia card and the driver from rpmfusion on my desktop and KDE with Intel video on a Dell laptop, also in Fedora 39. Emacs is ok on both machines. I haven't tried it in X.
George
On Sun Nov12'23 04:12:07PM, George Avrunin wrote:
From: George Avrunin avrunin@comcast.net Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2023 16:12:07 -0500 To: users@lists.fedoraproject.org Reply-To: Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: emacs is hopeless
On 11/12/23 13:19, Ranjan Maitra via users wrote:
Thank you for this: downgrading emacs for me to 28.3 (F38) gets rid of the problem that I was having, and that is, that emacs 29.1 can not load a file for me (without emacs -Q).
With emacs -Q in 29.1 (F39), I can load the file all right, but I do not have the correct fonts, and I can not seem to load those.
I wonder why emacs users have not reported my issue with 29.1 on the emacs mailing list.
Best wishes, Ranjan
As a data point, Emacs 29.1 (from emacs-29.1-2.fc39.x86_64) in Fedora 39 is working fine for me. I had to upgrade a couple of the elisp packages I use and it seems that the very old auto-insert-tkld package that I've used for a long time doesn't work anymore, though I did get some semi-informative error messages. (For the moment, I've just taken the auto-insert-tkld stuff out of my .emacs; maybe I'll try to figure that out later when I have more time, or set up one of the alternatives.) "emacs -q" worked without problems from the beginning.
Since I'm using Wayland, I had to install wl-clipboard and add some code in .emacs to get paste with the middle mouse button into emacs to work (per the Emacs Wiki: https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/CopyAndPaste). But everything else I've tried seems to work fine, including AUCTeX, both with opening new files and editing existing ones.
I'm using KDE with an NVidia card and the driver from rpmfusion on my desktop and KDE with Intel video on a Dell laptop, also in Fedora 39. Emacs is ok on both machines. I haven't tried it in X.
I see, I use the X11 window system (no desktop environment, but openbox window manager).
Thanks for your input!
Best wishes, Ranjan
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On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 12:17 PM Tom Horsley horsley1953@gmail.com wrote:
I reported strange things with emacs earlier, but I thought it might be something wrong with my partially configured system.
Nope, it is just plain busted. I've added this bug report:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2249379
I guess I'll have to try building from the fedora 38 source rpm on fedora 39 and see if I can get a working emacs that way.
I use the emacs-nox package. It provides an emacs binary, and works both interactive and over ssh.
$ ls -Al $(command -v emacs) lrwxrwxrwx. 1 root root 23 Nov 7 19:32 /usr/bin/emacs -> /etc/alternatives/emacs $ ls -Al /etc/alternatives/emacs lrwxrwxrwx. 1 root root 23 Nov 7 19:32 /etc/alternatives/emacs -> /usr/bin/emacs-29.1-nox
I have not encountered any problems (yet?).
Jeff
On Sun, 12 Nov 2023 20:50:04 -0500, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
I have not encountered any problems (yet?).
Fedora 39 Workstation installation (so Wayland based), launching Emacs from GNOME Shell as well as terminals. No problems yet. I apply some font face customizations in ~/.emacs though.
On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 12:17 PM Tom Horsley horsley1953@gmail.com wrote:
I reported strange things with emacs earlier, but I thought it might be something wrong with my partially configured system.
Nope, it is just plain busted. I've added this bug report:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2249379
I guess I'll have to try building from the fedora 38 source rpm on fedora 39 and see if I can get a working emacs that way.
It emacs all day every day here, same as the last 30? years.
I'm using [copr:copr.fedorainfracloud.org:bhavin192:emacs-pretest] on 1 machine, although the stock emacs on another machine is working also.
On Mon Nov13'23 07:55:04AM, Neal Becker wrote:
From: Neal Becker ndbecker2@gmail.com Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2023 07:55:04 -0500 To: Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org Reply-To: Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: emacs is hopeless
On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 12:17 PM Tom Horsley horsley1953@gmail.com wrote:
I reported strange things with emacs earlier, but I thought it might be something wrong with my partially configured system.
Nope, it is just plain busted. I've added this bug report:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2249379
I guess I'll have to try building from the fedora 38 source rpm on fedora 39 and see if I can get a working emacs that way.
It emacs all day every day here, same as the last 30? years.
I'm using [copr:copr.fedorainfracloud.org:bhavin192:emacs-pretest] on 1 machine, although the stock emacs on another machine is working also.
I also tried emacs-nox and have the same problem. Removing my .emacs did not have any effect. I do not mess with my system files so I am a bit confused as to how to track this down. Is there a verbose mode which allows me to see what to do?
I have emacs-ess also installed (from Fedora 36) that has not been updated and is probably obsolete or retired.
Best wishes, Ranjan
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 9:04 AM Ranjan Maitra via users < users@lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote:
[...] I also tried emacs-nox and have the same problem. Removing my .emacs did not have any effect.
I do not mess with my system files so I am a bit confused as to how to
track this down. Is there a
verbose mode which allows me to see what to do?
Try running emacs as newly created user to rule out something in your ~/.emacs.d or some shell startup script creating variables that confuse emacs. Have you tried "emacs -nw" for text mode to rule out a GUI issue?
It might help to have a simple example with a description of what happens. If emacs is failing due to some conflict with libraries you might see an error with journalctl. Make a note of the time the error occurs to help identify related errors.
I have emacs-ess also installed (from Fedora 36) that has not been updated and is probably obsolete or retired.
Probably good to remove that old package. You can reinstall from upstream source if Fedora 39 doesn't have a package.
On Mon Nov13'23 11:41:28AM, George N. White III wrote:
From: "George N. White III" gnwiii@gmail.com Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2023 11:41:28 -0400 To: Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org Reply-To: Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: emacs is hopeless
On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 9:04 AM Ranjan Maitra via users < users@lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote:
[...] I also tried emacs-nox and have the same problem. Removing my .emacs did not have any effect.
I do not mess with my system files so I am a bit confused as to how to
track this down. Is there a
verbose mode which allows me to see what to do?
Try running emacs as newly created user to rule out something in your ~/.emacs.d or some shell startup script creating variables that confuse emacs. Have you tried "emacs -nw" for text mode to rule out a GUI issue?
It might help to have a simple example with a description of what happens. If emacs is failing due to some conflict with libraries you might see an error with journalctl. Make a note of the time the error occurs to help identify related errors.
I have emacs-ess also installed (from Fedora 36) that has not been updated and is probably obsolete or retired.
Probably good to remove that old package. You can reinstall from upstream source if Fedora 39 doesn't have a package.
Indeed, the culprit appears to have been the emacs-ess package, which was creating issues even with it not being called.
Unfortunately, for me, emacs-ess was the main selling point of emacs, and with that rendering emacs unusable, it appears that I will have to move on to nvim which has a good R interface.
What really irritates me about vi and its friends is that it throws you out of editing (insert) mode in order to save the file, and needs another key to come back in.
I don't know if it is possible to remap a key (say C-x-C-s) that would exit the "insert" mode, save the file, and then come back into the "insert" mode.
Anyway, this is an off-topic question. At least it appears that I found the cause of my problems.
Many thanks, Ranjan
On 11/14/2023 12:26 PM, Ranjan Maitra via users wrote:
What really irritates me about vi and its friends is that it throws you out of editing (insert) mode in order to save the file, and needs another key to come back in.
You might want to consider nano; the most common commands are listed at the bottom of the window, including the one needed to get to the rest of them.
2023-11-14 20:36 UTC+01:00, Joe Zeff joe@zeff.us:
On 11/14/2023 12:26 PM, Ranjan Maitra via users wrote:
What really irritates me about vi and its friends is that it throws you out of editing (insert) mode in order to save the file, and needs another key to come back in.
You might want to consider nano; the most common commands are listed at the bottom of the window, including the one needed to get to the rest of them.
If his problem was finding the right keys, he'd continue to use emacs.
On 15/11/23 06:36, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 11/14/2023 12:26 PM, Ranjan Maitra via users wrote:
What really irritates me about vi and its friends is that it throws you out of editing (insert) mode in order to save the file, and needs another key to come back in.
You might want to consider nano; the most common commands are listed at the bottom of the window, including the one needed to get to the rest of them.
The one issue I've found with nano, which might be my lack of understanding of it, is you can't paste anything in that has been copied outside of nano, the paste listed at the bottom of the window does nothing in this scenario.
regards, Steve
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On Wed Nov15'23 08:38:07AM, Stephen Morris wrote:
From: Stephen Morris samorris@netspace.net.au Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2023 08:38:07 +1100 To: users@lists.fedoraproject.org Reply-To: Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: [Off List] Re: emacs is hopeless
On 15/11/23 06:36, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 11/14/2023 12:26 PM, Ranjan Maitra via users wrote:
What really irritates me about vi and its friends is that it throws you out of editing (insert) mode in order to save the file, and needs another key to come back in.
You might want to consider nano; the most common commands are listed at the bottom of the window, including the one needed to get to the rest of them.
The one issue I've found with nano, which might be my lack of understanding of it, is you can't paste anything in that has been copied outside of nano, the paste listed at the bottom of the window does nothing in this scenario.
Thanks, everyone! I have used nano as part of the pine program in ancient times (never really realized it was an editor, until my students started using it) as part of the UW produced ecosystem (I am a UW product from around that time it was developed there). It can perhaps do syntax highlighting, but I am also looking for C mode, python mode, TeX mode, completions and the like which make editors such as emacs (or vi) so much more powerful.
I have been trying to overcome my aversion to vi(m) and have been using nvim now for the past several hours. I have recovered at least a few of my keybindings (really readline things), and I presume I can figure out a better way of dealing with the fact that we have to constantly move between insert mode and some other mode just to occassionally save a file (in emacs, I got used to pressing Ctrl-x-Ctrl-s every few minutes just to save things while typing).
Thanks again!
Best wishes, Ranjan
Incidentally, I've updated my bugzilla:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2249379
The problem appears to be wayland, I thought I had tested under x11 and wayland, but gnome was sneaking a wayland session into existence behind my back. When I really managed to start in x11 for sure, emacs no longer seemed wacky.
On 11/14/2023 01:40 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:
The problem appears to be wayland, I thought I had tested under x11 and wayland, but gnome was sneaking a wayland session into existence behind my back. When I really managed to start in x11 for sure, emacs no longer seemed wacky.
Two suggestions: first, after a clean boot, switch to a text console, log in there and see what happens. Second, install a DE that doesn't use Wayland (I like Xfce, but there are many others.) and start a session in that to make sure that Wayland can't be involved and again, see what happens. If the bug manifests in either one, you know that the bug is in emacs not your GUI.
On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 3:26 PM Ranjan Maitra via users < users@lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote:
Indeed, the culprit appears to have been the emacs-ess package, which was creating issues even with it not being called.
Unfortunately, for me, emacs-ess was the main selling point of emacs, and with that rendering emacs unusable, it appears that I will have to move on to nvim which has a good R interface.
From https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/EmacsSpeaksStatistics: Fun Fact: Many current RStudio users, (like Jenny Bryan) used to be ESS users!
I'm a member of that ESS to RStudio crowd, but my use case hs changed from writing R code to maintenance, and many colleagues working in enterprise environments where access to linux is command-line on data center servers, but they do have R-studio-server and Jupyer that can be used with web browser in Windows.
On Tue Nov14'23 06:02:27PM, George N. White III wrote:
From: "George N. White III" gnwiii@gmail.com Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2023 18:02:27 -0400 To: Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org Reply-To: Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: emacs is hopeless
On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 3:26 PM Ranjan Maitra via users < users@lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote:
Indeed, the culprit appears to have been the emacs-ess package, which was creating issues even with it not being called.
Unfortunately, for me, emacs-ess was the main selling point of emacs, and with that rendering emacs unusable, it appears that I will have to move on to nvim which has a good R interface.
From https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/EmacsSpeaksStatistics: Fun Fact: Many current RStudio users, (like Jenny Bryan) used to be ESS users!
I'm a member of that ESS to RStudio crowd, but my use case hs changed from writing R code to maintenance, and many colleagues working in enterprise environments where access to linux is command-line on data center servers, but they do have R-studio-server and Jupyer that can be used with web browser in Windows.
Thanks! I do not care for Rstudio. In my experience, it is **slow**, and wastes all the time I gain by using a WM (non-DE).
But I think I found my answer to the nvim keybinding I would like here: https://superuser.com/questions/88432/save-in-insert-mode-vim
inoremap <c-x><c-s> <c-><c-o>:w<cr>
That is good.
Still sad about having to give up on emacs, but, oh, well! ESS is not really that well-supported (on Fedora, at least anymore).
Ranjan
On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 6:12 PM Ranjan Maitra via users < users@lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote:
[...]
Still sad about having to give up on emacs, but, oh, well! ESS is not
really that well-supported (on Fedora, at least anymore).
There has been very little activity in the ESS site. Unless someone steps forward to maintain it on new linux it may slowly die as people upgrade their systems.
On Wed Nov15'23 11:21:51AM, George N. White III wrote:
From: "George N. White III" gnwiii@gmail.com Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2023 11:21:51 -0400 To: Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org Reply-To: Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: emacs is hopeless
On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 6:12 PM Ranjan Maitra via users < users@lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote:
[...]
Still sad about having to give up on emacs, but, oh, well! ESS is not
really that well-supported (on Fedora, at least anymore).
There has been very little activity in the ESS site. Unless someone steps forward to maintain it on new linux it may slowly die as people upgrade their systems.
Right, there is still some activity on the github site (five months ago), but the RPM no longer builds on Fedora (I tried it a couple of days ago with the updated github versio).
I have pretty much given up on emacs now and am working to get nvim to a (for me) saner state. It is quite amazing how quickly we adapt to new environments, though falling back to old ways of doing things, out of unthinking old habit, is why readline is important.
My next stop: try to undo something without exiting insert mode. (Ctrl-/ in emacs).
Best wishes, Ranjan
-- George N. White III
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On Wed, Nov 15, 2023 at 10:58 AM Ranjan Maitra via users users@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
[...] I have pretty much given up on emacs now and am working to get nvim to a (for me) saner state. It is quite amazing how quickly we adapt to new environments, though falling back to old ways of doing things, out of unthinking old habit, is why readline is important.
You might take a quick look at https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/EmacsImplementations, and see if any of them meet your needs.
My next stop: try to undo something without exiting insert mode. (Ctrl-/ in emacs).
Pfff.. I'll be damned if I'll use a text editor that makes you do something special to edit text, like enter insert mode.
Jeff
On Wed Nov15'23 09:58:23AM, Community Support for Fedora Users wrote:
From: Ranjan Maitra via users users@lists.fedoraproject.org Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2023 09:58:23 -0600 To: Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org Cc: Ranjan Maitra mlmaitra@gmx.com Reply-To: Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: emacs is hopeless
On Wed Nov15'23 11:21:51AM, George N. White III wrote:
From: "George N. White III" gnwiii@gmail.com Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2023 11:21:51 -0400 To: Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org Reply-To: Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: emacs is hopeless
On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 6:12 PM Ranjan Maitra via users < users@lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote:
[...]
Still sad about having to give up on emacs, but, oh, well! ESS is not
really that well-supported (on Fedora, at least anymore).
There has been very little activity in the ESS site. Unless someone steps forward to maintain it on new linux it may slowly die as people upgrade their systems.
Right, there is still some activity on the github site (five months ago), but the RPM no longer builds on Fedora (I tried it a couple of days ago with the updated github versio).
I have pretty much given up on emacs now and am working to get nvim to a (for me) saner state. It is quite amazing how quickly we adapt to new environments, though falling back to old ways of doing things, out of unthinking old habit, is why readline is important.
My next stop: try to undo something without exiting insert mode. (Ctrl-/ in emacs).
I figured this out looking at the remapping for Ctrl-x-Ctrl-s. I came up with:
inoremap <C-/> <C-><C-o>:u<cr>
For good measure, I even mapped out how to get out of the insert mode directly, without having to launch a few missiles too:
inoremap <C-x><C-q> <C-><C-o>:q<cr>
These seem to work.
Let us see what else I come up with.
Best wishes, Ranjan
Best wishes, Ranjan
-- George N. White III
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On Wed, 2023-11-15 at 20:11 -0600, Ranjan Maitra via users wrote:
For good measure, I even mapped out how to get out of the insert mode directly, without having to launch a few missiles too:
inoremap <C-x><C-q> <C-><C-o>:q<cr>
These seem to work.
Doesn't just hitting ESCAPE do that?
On Tue, 2023-11-14 at 13:26 -0600, Ranjan Maitra via users wrote:
What really irritates me about vi and its friends is that it throws you out of editing (insert) mode in order to save the file, and needs another key to come back in.
That's one thing I like about gvim, you can just click a save button. That and being able to use the mouse. And yet, you still have all the other keyboard-only things that traditional vi users want.
I'm not a hard-core user, but because I edit a lot of text files related to web-serving, I like an editor that fires up in a flash, and isn't over-simplified. Gvim fits that bill, and I can manage to use vim over ssh without a GUI when I need to fix things up, though I can never remember how to do cut and paste that way.
On 11/14/23 7:29 PM, Tim via users wrote:
On Tue, 2023-11-14 at 13:26 -0600, Ranjan Maitra via users wrote:
[... snip ...]> Gvim fits that bill, and I can manage to use
vim over ssh without a GUI when I need to fix things up, though I can never remember how to do cut and paste that way.
Tim, I hope I'm not misunderstanding you, but in (g)vim, the "dd" command deletes (cuts) the lines, and then 'p' pastes the cut lines below the cursor, 'P' pastes them above the cursor.
Bill.
Tim:
Gvim fits that bill, and I can manage to use vim over ssh without a GUI when I need to fix things up, though I can never remember how to do cut and paste that way.
home user:
Tim, I hope I'm not misunderstanding you, but in (g)vim, the "dd" command deletes (cuts) the lines, and then 'p' pastes the cut lines below the cursor, 'P' pastes them above the cursor.
Aha. I had been using dd as a delete for a long time, never thought of it as part of a cut (and keep in a buffer). The paste one is one I always forget, heck knows why since they used the letter P. It is a rarity that I use it that way, so I don't remember these things.
It's always the obvious things.
On Wed, Nov 15, 2023 at 5:14 AM Tim via users users@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
Aha. I had been using dd as a delete for a long time, never thought of it as part of a cut (and keep in a buffer). The paste one is one I always forget, heck knows why since they used the letter P. It is a rarity that I use it that way, so I don't remember these things.
If you asked me, I might not remember, but my fingers do things without me consciously thinking about it. They seem to understand the difference between vi and emacs.
Ranjan Maitra via users composed on 2023-11-14 13:26 (UTC-0600):
What really irritates me about vi and its friends is that it throws you out of editing (insert) mode in order to save the file, and needs another key to come back in.
I suppose mcedit, from within or without mc, or filecommander's editor, are not your cup of tea either, perhaps too much like nano? I primarly use both, more often fc's in X, (not available without), rarely vi, and nano only when my primaries are unavailable (as in a limited environment), and emacs as yet, never.
On Tue, 14 Nov 2023 13:26:38 -0600 Ranjan Maitra via users users@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
On Mon Nov13'23 11:41:28AM, George N. White III wrote:
From: "George N. White III" gnwiii@gmail.com Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2023 11:41:28 -0400 To: Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org Reply-To: Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: emacs is hopeless
On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 9:04 AM Ranjan Maitra via users < users@lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote:
[...] I also tried emacs-nox and have the same problem. Removing my .emacs did not have any effect.
I do not mess with my system files so I am a bit confused as to how to
track this down. Is there a
verbose mode which allows me to see what to do?
Try running emacs as newly created user to rule out something in your ~/.emacs.d or some shell startup script creating variables that confuse emacs. Have you tried "emacs -nw" for text mode to rule out a GUI issue?
It might help to have a simple example with a description of what happens. If emacs is failing due to some conflict with libraries you might see an error with journalctl. Make a note of the time the error occurs to help identify related errors.
I have emacs-ess also installed (from Fedora 36) that has not been updated and is probably obsolete or retired.
Probably good to remove that old package. You can reinstall from upstream source if Fedora 39 doesn't have a package.
Indeed, the culprit appears to have been the emacs-ess package, which was creating issues even with it not being called.
Unfortunately, for me, emacs-ess was the main selling point of emacs, and with that rendering emacs unusable, it appears that I will have to move on to nvim which has a good R interface.
What really irritates me about vi and its friends is that it throws you out of editing (insert) mode in order to save the file, and needs another key to come back in.
I work around that by configuring hh and uu as <ESC>. Since I (almost) always finish input by pressing one of them, the command mode is available, so I just hit :w <ENTER> to save. I guess it is a matter of taste, a trade off.
I don't know if it is possible to remap a key (say C-x-C-s) that would exit the "insert" mode, save the file, and then come back into the "insert" mode.
It is possible to record a macro, by assigning it to a key. e.g. for key r qr [record what you want to do here, whatever does what you want above] q
invoke the macro with @R or @r.
You can map keys to sequences of commands using the map command. :map <F2> @r
Then whenever you want to invoke the file save, just hit F2.
I haven't tried the above, but it should work.
On 15 Nov 2023, at 17:21, stan via users users@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
I work around that by configuring hh and uu as <ESC>. Since I (almost) always finish input by pressing one of them, the command mode is available, so I just hit :w <ENTER> to save. I guess it is a matter of taste, a trade off.
I know few vi commands, one I do know is ZZ that saves the file and exits.
I only know enough vi to boot strap barry's emacs on a machine .
Barry
On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 17:37:09 +0000 Barry Scott barry@barrys-emacs.org wrote:
On 15 Nov 2023, at 17:21, stan via users users@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
I work around that by configuring hh and uu as <ESC>. Since I (almost) always finish input by pressing one of them, the command mode is available, so I just hit :w <ENTER> to save. I guess it is a matter of taste, a trade off.
I know few vi commands, one I do know is ZZ that saves the file and exits.
I only know enough vi to boot strap barry's emacs on a machine .
That would be me in emacs. I used emacs at one point, and liked it. Then I took a long hiatus, and when I used it again, it just didn't click with me. So, I learned vim, and I find it comfortable to use, it fits my thinking process. Just like perl and python. I just couldn't feel comfortable using perl, but python fits like a glove. To each their own.
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Francis.Montagnac＠inria.fr -
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