[resend from correct email]
F38, tb 115.3.2 (64-bit)
The server is configured as pop3 with the option to leave the messages on the server.
After clicking "Get Messages" I often get no reaction for a while, and click again in a few seconds. In this case, after the new messages are downloaded, a second download starts and the same messages are fetched again.
Normally, only new messages are downloaded in this situation (so none on a second download), as it should be.
If I download from another client then I will get these messages again, which is OK as each client should know what it already has.
I have one "main" client which downloads messages, removing them from the server. When away from the main server, I often collect messages using other clients, leaving the messages on the server. This is when the problem shows.
On 11/6/23 15:17, fedora@eyal.emu.id.au wrote:
tb 115.3.2
My upgrade to 115 did not go smoothly. Swear words have not bee invented to properly express ....
You should see the tears being shed over on alt.comp.software.thunderbird
What were they thinking!
11.5.4 is in the repo now. Try it.
On Tue, 2023-11-07 at 10:17 +1100, fedora@eyal.emu.id.au wrote:
The server is configured as pop3 with the option to leave the messages on the server.
After clicking "Get Messages" I often get no reaction for a while, and click again in a few seconds. In this case, after the new messages are downloaded, a second download starts and the same messages are fetched again.
Normally, only new messages are downloaded in this situation (so none on a second download), as it should be.
If I download from another client then I will get these messages again, which is OK as each client should know what it already has.
I have one "main" client which downloads messages, removing them from the server. When away from the main server, I often collect messages using other clients, leaving the messages on the server. This is when the problem shows.
I'll state the obvious first, then go into more detail...
POP3 is really not good for leaving messages on the server. Even more so when more than one mail client is used. And it'll depend on how the server works. It never used to do that, and changes to the spec introduced the feature. We all know how well specs are (not) adhered to, and how different ones are interpreted or used and ignored, I hope.
POP3 is not efficient at keeping messages and letting you download specific ones. This may simply be a speed issue for you that you may not notice, or care about. Though it gets worse with the more messages kept on the server (mail spool files, wherever they are get more painful to deal with the bigger they get). You may be lucky, and that (speed) may be the only thing you ever have to deal with.
The server may simply number each message from 1 to however many there are, as the only way of identifying and dealing with the stored message. If you delete some, the remaining may keep their message numbers, *OR* the whole lot may be renumbered from 1 to however many there are. If it renumbers them, your mail clients will have little hope in working in the manner you desire if they simply deal with message numbers.
Alternatively, your clients may fetch a list of messages with their unique message IDs, and they may keep a database of which IDs they've dealt with. This is more robust, but mayn't always be supported on servers and clients. And, I believe, it's still possible that a server could change message IDs (heck knows why, but I do recall some programmers mentioning that).
But, either way, you don't have any way of identifying a message has been read elsewhere. Each message appears new on each client. This can be an organisational pain if you deal with a lot of mail.
This is the kind of thing that IMAP is meant for. It's designed to handle picking and choosing which messages to fetch (on the mail server and the client side). It's designed for the server to flag read messages as already being read, so every mail client that accesses them can tell the read from the unread. It's designed for messages to stay on the server, although you can shift them from server to a client if you want to. But normally when you read them, you cache a local copy while leaving them on the server. It's kinda like how many webmail services work, though you use a local mail client rather than a general purpose web-browser, and you *can* have much better features.
Of course there are drawbacks, some people find IMAP slower, because it's dealing with each message one-by-one as you read them. I dare say some IMAP clients could just sync your whole inbox when you connect, and so by the time you get around to reading the next message you already have it, so it'd feel the same as a finished POP3 download. But I certainly would expect this to be quicker than webmail.
And IMAP isn't always available with some services. Though you can use one service to pull all your mail from everywhere using whatever protocols they support, then access your mail from the central server using IMAP. That's more or less what I do, except that my central server is on my LAN not the WWW, I don't need to access email away from base.
On 07/11/2023 16.34, Tim via users wrote:
On Tue, 2023-11-07 at 10:17 +1100, fedora@eyal.emu.id.au wrote:
The server is configured as pop3 with the option to leave the messages on the server.
After clicking "Get Messages" I often get no reaction for a while, and click again in a few seconds. In this case, after the new messages are downloaded, a second download starts and the same messages are fetched again.
Normally, only new messages are downloaded in this situation (so none on a second download), as it should be.
If I download from another client then I will get these messages again, which is OK as each client should know what it already has.
I have one "main" client which downloads messages, removing them from the server. When away from the main server, I often collect messages using other clients, leaving the messages on the server. This is when the problem shows.
I'll state the obvious first, then go into more detail...
POP3 is really not good for leaving messages on the server.
I do not leave messages on the server. Let me clarify this.
I usually read messages by downloading and removing them. At times, when I do not have access to my main client, and I need to check my mail, I will ready by downloading and leaving. This is a small number of messages, until I get to my main client.
What would be nice is to have the "Gem Messages" icon go inactive while a download is in progress. It will both indicate that the click took, and avoid a double download.
Even more so when more than one mail client is used. And it'll depend on how the server works. It never used to do that, and changes to the spec introduced the feature. We all know how well specs are (not) adhered to, and how different ones are interpreted or used and ignored, I hope.
POP3 is not efficient at keeping messages and letting you download specific ones. This may simply be a speed issue for you that you may not notice, or care about. Though it gets worse with the more messages kept on the server (mail spool files, wherever they are get more painful to deal with the bigger they get). You may be lucky, and that (speed) may be the only thing you ever have to deal with.
I know that pop3 is the "old way", but as long as it works for me I will stick with it rather than learn a new trick.
Though I do have imap available on my mail server if I ever want to use it.
The server may simply number each message from 1 to however many there are, as the only way of identifying and dealing with the stored message. If you delete some, the remaining may keep their message numbers, *OR* the whole lot may be renumbered from 1 to however many there are. If it renumbers them, your mail clients will have little hope in working in the manner you desire if they simply deal with message numbers.
Alternatively, your clients may fetch a list of messages with their unique message IDs, and they may keep a database of which IDs they've dealt with. This is more robust, but mayn't always be supported on servers and clients. And, I believe, it's still possible that a server could change message IDs (heck knows why, but I do recall some programmers mentioning that).
But, either way, you don't have any way of identifying a message has been read elsewhere. Each message appears new on each client. This can be an organisational pain if you deal with a lot of mail.
This is the kind of thing that IMAP is meant for. It's designed to handle picking and choosing which messages to fetch (on the mail server and the client side). It's designed for the server to flag read messages as already being read, so every mail client that accesses them can tell the read from the unread. It's designed for messages to stay on the server, although you can shift them from server to a client if you want to. But normally when you read them, you cache a local copy while leaving them on the server. It's kinda like how many webmail services work, though you use a local mail client rather than a general purpose web-browser, and you *can* have much better features.
Of course there are drawbacks, some people find IMAP slower, because it's dealing with each message one-by-one as you read them. I dare say some IMAP clients could just sync your whole inbox when you connect, and so by the time you get around to reading the next message you already have it, so it'd feel the same as a finished POP3 download. But I certainly would expect this to be quicker than webmail.
And IMAP isn't always available with some services. Though you can use one service to pull all your mail from everywhere using whatever protocols they support, then access your mail from the central server using IMAP. That's more or less what I do, except that my central server is on my LAN not the WWW, I don't need to access email away from base.
Thanks for the detailed explanation.
On 11/7/23 01:46, fedora@eyal.emu.id.au wrote:
Though I do have imap available on my mail server if I ever want to use it.
That's your answer, bud. POP is ancient and crufty, and as others have said, different mail servers do different, often weird, things to the messages.
Switch to IMAP, it'll be a lot easier for you, I promise.
Thomas
On 07/11/2023 16.34, Tim via users wrote:
On Tue, 2023-11-07 at 10:17 +1100, fedora@eyal.emu.id.au wrote:
The server is configured as pop3 with the option to leave the messages on the server.
After clicking "Get Messages" I often get no reaction for a while, and click again in a few seconds. In this case, after the new messages are downloaded, a second download starts and the same messages are fetched again.
Normally, only new messages are downloaded in this situation (so none on a second download), as it should be.
If I download from another client then I will get these messages again, which is OK as each client should know what it already has.
I have one "main" client which downloads messages, removing them from the server. When away from the main server, I often collect messages using other clients, leaving the messages on the server. This is when the problem shows.
I'll state the obvious first, then go into more detail...
POP3 is really not good for leaving messages on the server.
I do not leave messages on the server. Let me clarify this.
I usually read messages by downloading and removing them. At times, when I do not have access to my main client, and I need to check my mail, I will ready by downloading and leaving. This is a small number of messages, until I get to my main client.
What would be nice is to have the "Gem Messages" icon go inactive while a download is in progress. It will both indicate that the click took, and avoid a double download.
Even more so when more than one mail client is used. And it'll depend on how the server works. It never used to do that, and changes to the spec introduced the feature. We all know how well specs are (not) adhered to, and how different ones are interpreted or used and ignored, I hope.
POP3 is not efficient at keeping messages and letting you download specific ones. This may simply be a speed issue for you that you may not notice, or care about. Though it gets worse with the more messages kept on the server (mail spool files, wherever they are get more painful to deal with the bigger they get). You may be lucky, and that (speed) may be the only thing you ever have to deal with.
I know that pop3 is the "old way", but as long as it works for me I will stick with it rather than learn a new trick.
Though I do have imap available on my mail server if I ever want to use it.
The server may simply number each message from 1 to however many there are, as the only way of identifying and dealing with the stored message. If you delete some, the remaining may keep their message numbers, *OR* the whole lot may be renumbered from 1 to however many there are. If it renumbers them, your mail clients will have little hope in working in the manner you desire if they simply deal with message numbers.
Alternatively, your clients may fetch a list of messages with their unique message IDs, and they may keep a database of which IDs they've dealt with. This is more robust, but mayn't always be supported on servers and clients. And, I believe, it's still possible that a server could change message IDs (heck knows why, but I do recall some programmers mentioning that).
But, either way, you don't have any way of identifying a message has been read elsewhere. Each message appears new on each client. This can be an organisational pain if you deal with a lot of mail.
This is the kind of thing that IMAP is meant for. It's designed to handle picking and choosing which messages to fetch (on the mail server and the client side). It's designed for the server to flag read messages as already being read, so every mail client that accesses them can tell the read from the unread. It's designed for messages to stay on the server, although you can shift them from server to a client if you want to. But normally when you read them, you cache a local copy while leaving them on the server. It's kinda like how many webmail services work, though you use a local mail client rather than a general purpose web-browser, and you *can* have much better features.
Of course there are drawbacks, some people find IMAP slower, because it's dealing with each message one-by-one as you read them. I dare say some IMAP clients could just sync your whole inbox when you connect, and so by the time you get around to reading the next message you already have it, so it'd feel the same as a finished POP3 download. But I certainly would expect this to be quicker than webmail.
And IMAP isn't always available with some services. Though you can use one service to pull all your mail from everywhere using whatever protocols they support, then access your mail from the central server using IMAP. That's more or less what I do, except that my central server is on my LAN not the WWW, I don't need to access email away from base.
Thanks for the detailed explanation.
On 11/6/23 23:48, fedora@eyal.emu.id.au wrote:
What would be nice is to have the "Gem Messages" icon go inactive while a download is in progress. It will both indicate that the click took, and avoid a double download.
Are you saying that while it's downloading, you click the button again, and it downloads them all a second time?
On 07/11/2023 18.52, Samuel Sieb wrote:
On 11/6/23 23:48, fedora@eyal.emu.id.au wrote:
What would be nice is to have the "Gem Messages" icon go inactive while a download is in progress. It will both indicate that the click took, and avoid a double download.
Are you saying that while it's downloading, you click the button again, and it downloads them all a second time?
Yes. There was no response or indication that the download started so I clicked again after a few seconds. When the download ended, another one started.
On 11/7/23 00:16, fedora@eyal.emu.id.au wrote:
On 07/11/2023 18.52, Samuel Sieb wrote:
On 11/6/23 23:48, fedora@eyal.emu.id.au wrote:
What would be nice is to have the "Gem Messages" icon go inactive while a download is in progress. It will both indicate that the click took, and avoid a double download.
Are you saying that while it's downloading, you click the button again, and it downloads them all a second time?
Yes. There was no response or indication that the download started so I clicked again after a few seconds. When the download ended, another one started.
If you wait until the download is complete and then press the button again, what happens?
On 07/11/2023 20.01, Samuel Sieb wrote:
On 11/7/23 00:16, fedora@eyal.emu.id.au wrote:
On 07/11/2023 18.52, Samuel Sieb wrote:
On 11/6/23 23:48, fedora@eyal.emu.id.au wrote:
What would be nice is to have the "Gem Messages" icon go inactive while a download is in progress. It will both indicate that the click took, and avoid a double download.
Are you saying that while it's downloading, you click the button again, and it downloads them all a second time?
Yes. There was no response or indication that the download started so I clicked again after a few seconds. When the download ended, another one started.
If you wait until the download is complete and then press the button again, what happens?
I get "there are no new messages", as expected.
Tim:
POP3 is really not good for leaving messages on the server.
fedora@eyal.emu.id.au wrote:
I do not leave messages on the server. Let me clarify this.
I usually read messages by downloading and removing them. At times, when I do not have access to my main client, and I need to check my mail, I will ready by downloading and leaving. This is a small number of messages, until I get to my main client.
Well, to be pedantic, you *are* leaving them on the server. Even if it's just for a short while, the problems it can have are the same.
It's one of the advantages of IMAP, you're just synchronising the list of what messages are available. And only downloading the ones you actually read. You wouldn't get that kind of doubling up.
It's worth learning how it works. Set up an additional temporary address somewhere, and try it out without messing up your normal mail.
What would be nice is to have the "Gem Messages" icon go inactive while a download is in progress. It will both indicate that the click took, and avoid a double download.
I presume that's "get" messages. If Thunderbird lets you get the messages twice, overlapping, that sounds like a bug you could report.
I'd expect the GUI to change when clicked, indicating it is downloading your mail, and then reset back to normal at the end of it. I'd also expect that you couldn't click it again in the middle of a mail fetch. That's just asking for trouble.
On other mail clients, when I "get new mail" I get a window pop up with a progress bar, or some progress bar showing on the bottom edge of a main window. If I click the "get new mail" in the middle of it, it doesn't double up.
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fedora＠eyal.emu.id.au -
Samuel Sieb -
Thomas Cameron -
Tim -
ToddAndMargo