Hello,
I have to buy a new PC for my desktop. I want to run Fedora on it, because I already know it well from University. But I am not sure if it is OK to go with a 64 bit CPU or stick to 32 bit ones.
What are right now, if any, the limits I encounter in using Fedora or FOSS in general, if I buy a 64 bit CPU?
I have not found very recent information, and what I found reinforced these doubts. For example, http://lwn.net/Articles/113741/ said:
Given the extra overhead in terms of disk space and memory usage while running two "editions" of the same libraries, as well as the limited number of third-party RPMs, is there a case for running a 64-bit Fedora >Core? In other words, are there any advantages of running a 64-bit system on a 64-bit processor, as opposed to running a 32-bit system on a 64-bit processor? As always, it depends. Unfortunately, it seems that right now, and for the majority of users, the disadvantages outweigh the benefits.
Is this still true today, or with next Fedora 5? What are the traps still there with openoffice, java, kernel graphic drivers, flash, kde, gnome, whatever?
Also, if there are no traps, what 64 bit CPU do you recommend from the power efficiency point of view? Lower wattage, possibility to run slower when not doing heavy stuff....?
Thanks, Webber
Happy 2006!
Hi,
I have to buy a new PC for my desktop. I want to run Fedora on it, because I already know it well from University.
Mine works better than any machine within the University of Salford. 64 bit Sempron 3000, FC5t1 - knocks the crap out of everything else anywhere that I know of.
What are right now, if any, the limits I encounter in using Fedora or FOSS in general, if I buy a 64 bit CPU?
None more that you find for 32 bit, with the exception that Flash doesn't work.
Also, if there are no traps, what 64 bit CPU do you recommend from the power efficiency point of view? Lower wattage, possibility to run slower when not doing heavy stuff....?
Depends on what you're doing. My one is great as both a server, streaming server and desktop box - all at the same time!
TTFN
Paul
On Sun, 2006-01-01 at 15:57, dondi_2006 wrote:
I have to buy a new PC for my desktop. I want to run Fedora on it, because I already know it well from University. But I am not sure if it is OK to go with a 64 bit CPU or stick to 32 bit ones.
You should base that decision on price/performance. You always have the option of running the 32-bit OS on a 64 bit CPU if you want. You probably won't see a big performance difference anyway unless you have more than 4 gigs of RAM.
What are right now, if any, the limits I encounter in using Fedora or FOSS in general, if I buy a 64 bit CPU?
The only problem I'd expect would be trying to run 64-bit apps that use components which are only available in 32-bit versions, like some browser plugins.
On Sun, Jan 01, 2006 at 04:11:11PM -0600, Les Mikesell wrote:
On Sun, 2006-01-01 at 15:57, dondi_2006 wrote:
I have to buy a new PC for my desktop. I want to run Fedora on it, because I already know it well from University. But I am not sure if it is OK to go with a 64 bit CPU or stick to 32 bit ones.
You should base that decision on price/performance. You always have the option of running the 32-bit OS on a 64 bit CPU if you want. You probably won't see a big performance difference anyway unless you have more than 4 gigs of RAM.
not necessarily true. The x86-64 architecture brings a bunch of additional features/optimisations in addition to an enlarged address space.
Dave
On Sun, 2006-01-01 at 16:15, Dave Jones wrote:
You should base that decision on price/performance. You always have the option of running the 32-bit OS on a 64 bit CPU if you want. You probably won't see a big performance difference anyway unless you have more than 4 gigs of RAM.
not necessarily true. The x86-64 architecture brings a bunch of additional features/optimisations in addition to an enlarged address space.
Most of the things I notice being slow these days are waiting for disk or network I/O anyway, but are there benchmarks available for some 32 vs. 64 bit applications on the same hardware?
Dave Jones wrote:
On Sun, Jan 01, 2006 at 04:11:11PM -0600, Les Mikesell wrote:
On Sun, 2006-01-01 at 15:57, dondi_2006 wrote:
I have to buy a new PC for my desktop. I want to run Fedora on it, because I already know it well from University. But I am not sure if it is OK to go with a 64 bit CPU or stick to 32 bit ones.
You should base that decision on price/performance. You always have the option of running the 32-bit OS on a 64 bit CPU if you want. You probably won't see a big performance difference anyway unless you have more than 4 gigs of RAM.
not necessarily true. The x86-64 architecture brings a bunch of additional features/optimisations in addition to an enlarged address space.
Dave
The large address space is full of potential...
I'd like to see someone do the following:
* a 64-bit (or 48-bit) address space implementation of a GPL memory leak finder like Rational's "Purify".
* zoned memory GC like what NextStep used to have... And have applications like FireFox, Emacs, etc. have each "session" (main window, tab, etc) use a single zone... And then when closing a file, session, tab, etc. just have it do a super-quick release of then entire zone. This would be a lot faster than doing a bunch of individual "free"s and trying to maintain the integrity, checking, etc. of the heap when the whole session is going away in any case. Of course, that's no replacement for diligently tracking memory usage. ;-)
Too late to ask Santa.
-Philip
Sam Varshavchik wrote:
Philip Prindeville writes:
The large address space is full of potential...
I'd like to see someone do the following:
- a 64-bit (or 48-bit) address space implementation of a GPL memory leak
finder like Rational's "Purify".
valgrind now supports amd64.
Does that mean that it supports sparse allocation with "hole" interlacing between individual chunks?
Or just that it was recompiled with -m64?
-Philip
dondi_2006 writes:
Hello,
I have to buy a new PC for my desktop. I want to run Fedora on it, because I already know it well from University. But I am not sure if it is OK to go with a 64 bit CPU or stick to 32 bit ones.
What are right now, if any, the limits I encounter in using Fedora or FOSS in general, if I buy a 64 bit CPU?
Mostly it's lack of non-free binary-only browser plugins. No 64 bit versions of Flash, dancing monkeys, etc. There is a 64bit build of Java, but no java browser plugin.
Hi,
There is a 64bit build of Java, but no java browser plugin.
The Sun version provides it.
TTFN
Paul
On 1/1/06, Paul F. Johnson paul@all-the-johnsons.co.uk wrote:
Hi,
There is a 64bit build of Java, but no java browser plugin.
The Sun version provides it.
Sun does not provide a 64-bit java plugin for an AMD64.
For i386: [root@osprey java]# ls -l total 16404 drwxr-xr-x 7 root root 4096 Nov 10 16:17 jre1.5.0_06 -rwxrwxr-x 1 jcliburn jcliburn 16769166 Dec 2 06:56 jre-1_5_0_06-linux-i586.bin [root@osprey java]# find . -name lib*plu* -print ./jre1.5.0_06/lib/i386/libjavaplugin_jni.so ./jre1.5.0_06/lib/i386/libjavaplugin_nscp.so ./jre1.5.0_06/lib/i386/libjavaplugin_nscp_gcc29.so ./jre1.5.0_06/plugin/i386/ns7/libjavaplugin_oji.so ./jre1.5.0_06/plugin/i386/ns7-gcc29/libjavaplugin_oji.so [root@osprey java]#
For amd64: [jcliburn@osprey java]$ ls -l total 16044 drwxr-xr-x 6 jcliburn jcliburn 4096 Jan 1 17:13 jre1.5.0_06 -rwxrwxr-x 1 jcliburn jcliburn 16403250 Jan 1 17:06 jre-1_5_0_06-linux-amd64.bin [jcliburn@osprey java]$ find . -name lib*plu* -print [jcliburn@osprey java]$
Jay
On 1/1/06, Sam Varshavchik mrsam@courier-mta.com wrote:
Paul F. Johnson writes:
Hi,
There is a 64bit build of Java, but no java browser plugin.
The Sun version provides it.
I don't think so. I have jdk1.5.0_06 here -- no plugin.
Get the 64-bit jre here: http://www.java.com/en/download/help/5000011400.xml
What commercial apps do you know of that run in 64-bit natively?
I'll start:
UT2004 game server
dondi_2006 wrote:
Hello,
I have to buy a new PC for my desktop. I want to run Fedora on it, because I already know it well from University. But I am not sure if it is OK to go with a 64 bit CPU or stick to 32 bit ones.
What are right now, if any, the limits I encounter in using Fedora or FOSS in general, if I buy a 64 bit CPU?
I have not found very recent information, and what I found reinforced these doubts. For example, http://lwn.net/Articles/113741/ said:
Given the extra overhead in terms of disk space and memory usage while running two "editions" of the same libraries, as well as the limited number of third-party RPMs, is there a case for running a 64-bit Fedora >Core? In other words, are there any advantages of running a 64-bit system on a 64-bit processor, as opposed to running a 32-bit system on a 64-bit processor? As always, it depends. Unfortunately, it seems that right now, and for the majority of users, the disadvantages outweigh the benefits.
Is this still true today, or with next Fedora 5? What are the traps still there with openoffice, java, kernel graphic drivers, flash, kde, gnome, whatever?
Also, if there are no traps, what 64 bit CPU do you recommend from the power efficiency point of view? Lower wattage, possibility to run slower when not doing heavy stuff....?
Thanks, Webber
Happy 2006!
My Athlon 64 X2 4400 Dual Core is showing every indication of being able to roar through compiles at amazing speeds, which is why I bought it. The FC4 install on this system seemed to happen with blistering speed. The Asrock 939Dual-SATA2 motherboard seems pretty nice too.
Bob Cochran
-
Dave Jones -
dondi_2006 -
J. K. Cliburn -
Kam Leo -
Kenneth Porter -
Les Mikesell -
Paul F. Johnson -
Philip Prindeville -
Robert L Cochran -
Sam Varshavchik